View Poll Results: Who would win?

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  • Tobirama

    13 29.55%
  • Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    31 70.45%
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  1. #41
    Senior Member Izuna Kakashi Senju's Avatar
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by USSJ Future Trunks View Post
    loooool massacre. tsunade alone is enough let alone two people above her. kakashis kamui outmatches any s/t tobirama had

    wheres this stated? oh yeah you made that up out of your ass

    where? show me a manga link of him being revered like that. wait you cant. meaning you made that up out of your ass
    Tobirama was primarily known for his mastery of Water Release. He could perform powerful water-style techniques in areas that lacked bodies of water by creating his own water out of thin air or producing it from his mouth, and perform some of the most complex water-style techniques, such as the Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique, with a single hand seal. This amongst other reasons is why he is revered as the greatest known Water Release manipulator in the series.

    Tobirama was also shown to have great physical prowess and a considerable amount of skill in the area of taijutsu, as well as good teamwork with his elder brother, Hashirama Senju.

    That answers your question.
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Izuna Kakashi Senju View Post
    Tobirama was primarily known for his mastery of Water Release. He could perform powerful water-style techniques in areas that lacked bodies of water by creating his own water out of thin air or producing it from his mouth, and perform some of the most complex water-style techniques, such as the Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique, with a single hand seal. This amongst other reasons is why he is revered as the greatest known Water Release manipulator in the series.

    Tobirama was also shown to have great physical prowess and a considerable amount of skill in the area of taijutsu, as well as good teamwork with his elder brother, Hashirama Senju.

    That answers your question.
    Thanks for the save, although it was kinda late . Rep

    EDIT: It wont let me give you rep, it appears I already did
     
         

  3. #43
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    That seems a little far-fetched in my opinion. So a Kamui Susanoo will just warp in and out of dimensions slashing everybody for fun? I like that idea
    That's what I'm hoping, but not expecting...
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    That's what I'm hoping, but not expecting...
    I think that'd be just unfair.
     
         

  5. #45
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    This is Kinkaku team time period? Yeah, Tobirama just revives his late brother Hashirama and the two of them rape their opponents up and down. Kakashi aint nothin vs the 1st.
     
         

  6. #46
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricClover View Post
    This is Kinkaku team time period? Yeah, Tobirama just revives his late brother Hashirama and the two of them rape their opponents up and down. Kakashi aint nothin vs the 1st.
    For Edo Tensei to work he has to either have prepared it beforehand or be able to kill one of his three opponents AND have enough time to complete the ritual. Tobirama's Edo Tensei is pretty weak besides, inferior to even Orochimaru's. I don't think Team 2 have any trouble even if he has prepared a (severely weakened) edo Hashirama.
     
         

  7. #47
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Tobirama for obvious reason, this is stupid.
     
         

  8. #48
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Temple View Post
    Tobirama for obvious reason, this is stupid.
    The obvious reasons of being both significantly weaker than Hashirama (though even he might have trouble with this combo) fighting three Kage-level shinobi where two have excellent teamwork, one of them able to match him in Suitonjutsu (or at least nearly) and far exceed him in S/T jutsu (according to Minato), one able to completely dominate him in taijutsu, and one able to destroy him in a single blow, dodge on a fantastic level, tank everything he's got anyway if the dodging doesn't work, AND heal the other two?

    The outcome DOES seem pretty obvious to me too, but we don't exactly seem to be on the same wavelength...
     
         

  9. #49
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricClover View Post
    This is Kinkaku team time period? Yeah, Tobirama just revives his late brother Hashirama and the two of them rape their opponents up and down. Kakashi aint nothin vs the 1st.
    You do know that Edo Tensei takes prep time, right?
     
         

  10. #50
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Kakashi solo's with Kamui.

    LOL, no not going to be that guy.

    But yeah I think team 2 take this, but it certainly wouldn't be easy.

    We don't know a lot but based on what we know Tobirama has a s/t technique which from the way Minato talks about it is teleporting, probably somewhat similar to Obito's but not as fast and not going in to another dimension.
    So we can assume he can dodge fairly well.

    Tobirama could get away from Kamui with s/t. Kakashi's is nowhere near as fast as Obito's which Minato got away from, it's easy to tell when Kakashi is using it on you(see Deidara fight) you feel your body warping so Tobirama could teleport away from that.
    He also has Edo Tensei.
    Unknown who he can revive but presumably he would revive Uchiha clan members to fight against them rather than disgrace his own clan.
    His Suiton is apparently unmatched(say what you want about Kisame but he needs water or Samehada to be good)
    one of them able to match him in Suitonjutsu (or at least nearly)
    ^What? I assume you mean Kakashi? Water Wall isn't that good that's basically all he has, I doubt water is a good defense against water and Water Dragon has yet to be that good.

    Other than healing Tsunade wouldn't be that useful in this fight...


    I think team 2 would win mainly because Kakashi and Gai are just an epic duo and would overwhelm Tobirama, but it would be close.
     
         

  11. #51
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    Thanks for the save, although it was kinda late . Rep

    EDIT: It wont let me give you rep, it appears I already did
    Anytime dude
     
         

  12. #52
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Boskarta View Post
    Kakashi solo's with Kamui.

    LOL, no not going to be that guy.

    But yeah I think team 2 take this, but it certainly wouldn't be easy.

    We don't know a lot but based on what we know Tobirama has a s/t technique which from the way Minato talks about it is teleporting, probably somewhat similar to Obito's but not as fast and not going in to another dimension.
    So we can assume he can dodge fairly well.

    Tobirama could get away from Kamui with s/t. Kakashi's is nowhere near as fast as Obito's which Minato got away from, it's easy to tell when Kakashi is using it on you(see Deidara fight) you feel your body warping so Tobirama could teleport away from that.
    He also has Edo Tensei.
    Unknown who he can revive but presumably he would revive Uchiha clan members to fight against them rather than disgrace his own clan.
    His Suiton is apparently unmatched(say what you want about Kisame but he needs water or Samehada to be good)

    ^What? I assume you mean Kakashi? Water Wall isn't that good that's basically all he has, I doubt water is a good defense against water and Water Dragon has yet to be that good.

    Other than healing Tsunade wouldn't be that useful in this fight...


    I think team 2 would win mainly because Kakashi and Gai are just an epic duo and would overwhelm Tobirama, but it would be close.
    We have no idea what Tobirama's S/T is (I'm leaning towards some sort of dimensional pocket filled entirely with water) but assuming he can dodge Kamui with it? Seems unlikely, not least because Minato stated Kamui to be far superior to it. I'm aware it was Obito's Kamui, but they are more or less equal in potency, at least now that Kakashi has become more capable with it.

    Kakashi can use the Water Wall, Clone, Shark Bullet, Great Waterfall and Dragon Bullet. None of these are on the scale of Tobirama's rumored ability, but Great Waterfall is about as large as Tobirama's jutsu agains Hiruzen. Note that I'm not suggesting this battle is anywhere near his limits, but rather that Kakashi has shown an aptitude for Water Release and more importantly nullifying even Master Water users moves before. If there is a nearby water source Kakashi can nullify his techniques for a while, though Tobirama could easily outlast him in a pure ninjutsu battle.

    Kakashi is also capable with Earth Walls, which posses the elemental advantage against water. Tobirama has shown himself capable of carving through Hiruzen's mud wall, so it may not make much of a difference.

    Gai would eventually overwhelm him in taijutsu, and could end the match with a well-placed Hirudora.

    Tsunade could heal and replenish the Eternal Rivals in terms of chakra, or take to the field herself.
     
         

  13. #53
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Boskarta View Post
    Kakashi solo's with Kamui.

    LOL, no not going to be that guy.

    But yeah I think team 2 take this, but it certainly wouldn't be easy.

    We don't know a lot but based on what we know Tobirama has a s/t technique which from the way Minato talks about it is teleporting, probably somewhat similar to Obito's but not as fast and not going in to another dimension.
    So we can assume he can dodge fairly well.

    Tobirama could get away from Kamui with s/t. Kakashi's is nowhere near as fast as Obito's which Minato got away from, it's easy to tell when Kakashi is using it on you(see Deidara fight) you feel your body warping so Tobirama could teleport away from that.
    He also has Edo Tensei.
    Unknown who he can revive but presumably he would revive Uchiha clan members to fight against them rather than disgrace his own clan.
    His Suiton is apparently unmatched(say what you want about Kisame but he needs water or Samehada to be good)

    ^What? I assume you mean Kakashi? Water Wall isn't that good that's basically all he has, I doubt water is a good defense against water and Water Dragon has yet to be that good.

    Other than healing Tsunade wouldn't be that useful in this fight...


    I think team 2 would win mainly because Kakashi and Gai are just an epic duo and would overwhelm Tobirama, but it would be close.
    It took the Kinkaku Force to overwhelm Tobirama, and remember, there were 20 of them. They were certainly above Jonin level, although I wouldn't say that they would be allowed to be around Kakashi and Gai's level; remember once again, there were 20 of them. If Tobirama has only been shown to lose to that (and they don't show HOW he lost to these people, other than that he was used as bait and as a sacrifice essentially), I doubt that Kakashi and Gai can take him.

    Just my opinion.
     
         

  14. #54
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    It took the Kinkaku Force to overwhelm Tobirama, and remember, there were 20 of them. They were certainly above Jonin level, although I wouldn't say that they would be allowed to be around Kakashi and Gai's level; remember once again, there were 20 of them. If Tobirama has only been shown to lose to that (and they don't show HOW he lost to these people, other than that he was used as bait and as a sacrifice essentially), I doubt that Kakashi and Gai can take him.

    Just my opinion.
    Ah, but remember that Tobirama knew he would be overwhelmed, even with the help of both Hiruzen AND Danzou, as well as whoever was with them, don't recall exactly who. Hiruzen at that age was good enough to become Hokage immediately after Tobirama died, and Danzou was his rival (and probably closest rival candidate). If Tobirama was sure the Kinkaku Force would overwhelm even three Kage-level shinobi you can't use their numbers as a testament to Tobirama's strength.
     
         

  15. #55
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    Ah, but remember that Tobirama knew he would be overwhelmed, even with the help of both Hiruzen AND Danzou, as well as whoever was with them, don't recall exactly who. Hiruzen at that age was good enough to become Hokage immediately after Tobirama died, and Danzou was his rival (and probably closest rival candidate). If Tobirama was sure the Kinkaku Force would overwhelm even three Kage-level shinobi you can't use their numbers as a testament to Tobirama's strength.
    Not exactly. He wanted the younger generation of Konoha to live, which means he was sure that at LEAST one of them would die, but not necessarily himself. This also shows that he is 'an inheritor of the Will of Fire' by his selflessness; he is willing to die for any one of his students/comrades.
     
         

  16. #56
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    Not exactly. He wanted the younger generation of Konoha to live, which means he was sure that at LEAST one of them would die, but not necessarily himself. This also shows that he is 'an inheritor of the Will of Fire' by his selflessness; he is willing to die for any one of his students/comrades.
    The Hokage is the most important member of the village, so he SHOULD be willing to sacrifice a ninja or two for the sake of his own existence. That's why Konoha has walls, and guards on those walls, and bodyguard ANBU. Sacrificing a potential Kage for the sake of an established and effective Kage makes logical sense.
     
         

  17. #57
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    The Hokage is the most important member of the village, so he SHOULD be willing to sacrifice a ninja or two for the sake of his own existence. That's why Konoha has walls, and guards on those walls, and bodyguard ANBU. Sacrificing a potential Kage for the sake of an established and effective Kage makes logical sense.
    Why would he let several S-rank and Kage-level shinobi/kunoichi die for his own sake? That greatly contradicts the Will of Fire, which Hiruzen got from both Hashirama and Tobirama.
     
         

  18. #58
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    Why would he let several S-rank and Kage-level shinobi/kunoichi die for his own sake? That greatly contradicts the Will of Fire, which Hiruzen got from both Hashirama and Tobirama.
    In Danzo's memories it is presented as a "one stays behind and stalls them" type situation. Tobirama'd be sacrificing a single low S-rank shinobi to save one high S-rank, as well as maintaining Konoha's image to a degree, as the death of a Kage always equals loss of prestige, unless people believe he "killed the Kyuubi" or some such. No only that but there'd be a fair amount of inner turmoil as the powerbase shifted (either drastically or not so much) and there's no guarantee the new Kage would be as good as he was. He'd deprive the Senju clan of a head, and Konoha as a whole of his extensive knowledge and experience. It's also possible he could resurrect the lost shinobi in some way to either say farewell or serve on even in death.
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    In Danzo's memories it is presented as a "one stays behind and stalls them" type situation. Tobirama'd be sacrificing a single low S-rank shinobi to save one high S-rank, as well as maintaining Konoha's image to a degree, as the death of a Kage always equals loss of prestige, unless people believe he "killed the Kyuubi" or some such. No only that but there'd be a fair amount of inner turmoil as the powerbase shifted (either drastically or not so much) and there's no guarantee the new Kage would be as good as he was. He'd deprive the Senju clan of a head, and Konoha as a whole of his extensive knowledge and experience. It's also possible he could resurrect the lost shinobi in some way to either say farewell or serve on even in death.
    Stall? No, the person who does that will die. I doubt Tobirama would actually let that occur, once again him being an inheritor of the Will of Fire would cause him to assist the person who runs off to die. And if the Hokage goes, the whole squad goes. All of them together dying? No way. Hiruzen, Danzo or Kagami kill two while stalling for Tobirama, Tobirama uses Edo Tensei to revive Hashirama. Homura may die during this process. Both Hashirama and Homura are revived. Kinkaku Force flees or is defeated. Tobirama died only because plot told him to.

    Using your old comrades to serve the village?! What kind of sadistic bastard would do that?! (Don't even, there are many)
     
         

  20. #60
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    Stall? No, the person who does that will die. I doubt Tobirama would actually let that occur, once again him being an inheritor of the Will of Fire would cause him to assist the person who runs off to die. And if the Hokage goes, the whole squad goes. All of them together dying? No way. Hiruzen, Danzo or Kagami kill two while stalling for Tobirama, Tobirama uses Edo Tensei to revive Hashirama. Homura may die during this process. Both Hashirama and Homura are revived. Kinkaku Force flees or is defeated. Tobirama died only because plot told him to.

    Using your old comrades to serve the village?! What kind of sadistic bastard would do that?! (Don't even, there are many)
    You can easily die stalling someone, particularly if that someone is a group of 20 skilled Kumo-nin all out for blood. I too doubt Tobirama would leave a comrade behind like that (as he didn't, canon) but there are arguments to be made for it being the more rational decision. If the Hokage orders them to go on without him they will (as they did, canon).

    So Hashirama would be used to serve the village? Well, the Hokage, and he probably would if he could.

    I do agree that Tobirama's death seemed a bit like a cop-out, as did Hashi's. They both would have benefited from some closure on their stories (why are villains the only ones who get that?) and it would have been an excellent opportunity to introduce some powerful potential edos.

    I meant the revival remark as a way of saying farewell for whoever felt they needed to, as well as allowing whoever it was to serve on if they so decided. If Tobirama had lived on, would Konoha have become a village of volunteer zombies?
     
         

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