View Poll Results: Who would win?

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  • Tobirama

    12 28.57%
  • Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    30 71.43%
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Those mini-wall of texts
     
         

  2. #102
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    Those mini-wall of texts
    Actually I was very proud of myself due to the wall-less nature of that last post.
     
         

  3. #103
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Team 2.
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    I was just wondering. Not the weakened Edo Tensei version of Tobirama, I'm talking about the real deal that sacrificed himself against the Kinkaku Force. Also, when concerning Gai and Kakashi, I'm talking about the now-Kage level ninja who are fighting Obito.
    Tobirama solo's mid-high diff. Everyone should know this.
     
         

  5. #105
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by DrProof View Post
    Tobirama solo's mid-high diff. Everyone should know this.
    If DrProof says so it MUST be correct, no matter how much he may fanboy over the more-or-less featless target.
     
         

  6. #106
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    I doubt that Tsunade is the 3rd strongest. ... At LEAST one of these people (other than Hashirama and Tobirama) had to be equal to or stronger than Tsunade to make the Senju clan great enough to rival the Uchiha. From what it seems, the Senju clan were not too great in numbers (how'd they die out so quickly?), so they must have made up for the lack of numbers with sheer power.

    So are you saying that Tobirama absolutely cannot drown the three?
    im pretty sure they meant of known senju
     
         

  7. #107
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by DrProof View Post
    Tobirama solo's mid-high diff. Everyone should know this.
    So do a detailed analysis regarding Tobirama, Kakashi, Gai, and Tsunade. And repeat that statement.
     
         

  8. #108
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    If DrProof says so it MUST be correct, no matter how much he may fanboy over the more-or-less featless target.
    Of course.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tazzilla88 View Post
    So do a detailed analysis regarding Tobirama, Kakashi, Gai, and Tsunade. And repeat that statement.
    To much work. Just refer to the quote above yours.
     
         

  9. #109
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by DrProof View Post
    Of course.



    To much work. Just refer to the quote above yours.
    You can't come make a claim and out of laziness refuse to defend it, well you can,but it isn't proper.
    Tobirama doesn't stand a chance in this fight.
    He has no speed feats to keep up with a gated Gai and for all we know his s/t techniques can work slower than Kakashi kamuing himself.
    He taijutsu feats are not impressive enough to put him in the tier of Tsunade, Kakashi, or Gai.
    His suitons may pose the biggest threat he has to offer but considering how Gai has handled Suitons before and Kakashi's affinity to electricity, Suitons may not be the best of options
    His edos are unquantifiable and as he has no living corpses to bring forth Edo Tensei's even if he did we don't know why his ET was imperfect.
    So how can you blatantly say Tobirama would defeat them? Without trying to use A>B>C logic.
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by hatake89 View Post
    im pretty sure they meant of known senju
    ._. So you're saying we know everybody who's shown in that picture?
     
         

  11. #111
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Why make a thread on someone we have no hype or feats about?
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Why make a thread on someone we have no hype or feats about?
    This question has already been answered a countless amount of times.

    The same thing applies to 'Prime' Hiruzen
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    This question has already been answered a countless amount of times.

    The same thing applies to 'Prime' Hiruzen
    I know the same thing applies to him. We won't be able to make an accurate judge of their power w/o any info.
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    I know the same thing applies to him. We won't be able to make an accurate judge of their power w/o any info.
    Exactly. The same reason 'Prime' Hiruzen is allowed to contaminate the threads is also why I put Tobirama in the threads; also he's underrated (he's Kage-level by default, so why are jonin being stated capable of defeating him?).

    I'm a Tobirama 'boy.
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    Exactly. The same reason 'Prime' Hiruzen is allowed to contaminate the threads is also why I put Tobirama in the threads; also he's underrated (he's Kage-level by default, so why are jonin being stated capable of defeating him?).

    I'm a Tobirama 'boy.
    I don't know why Prime Hiruzen is allowed, and Naruto is all about match-ups, not about ranks.
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    sure team 2
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    I don't know why Prime Hiruzen is allowed, and Naruto is all about match-ups, not about ranks.
    True
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Tobirama would win
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Kratos of cruxis View Post
    Tobirama would win
    And how?
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug Princess Tsunade View Post
    And how?
    He wasn't the Nidaime Hokage, the second-best of the Senju clan during its prime (and the best of the Senju clan after Hashirama's death), the strongest in the village during the First Shinobi World War (when it was full of Uchiha and presumably Senju), and a notable S/T user (as stated by the Yondaime Hokage himself; he states that Obito's S/T surpasses both his and "Nidaime-sama"'s S/T, meaning Obito > Minato >= Tobirama in terms of S/T) for nothing, you know.
     
         

  21. #121
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    No, the ENTIRE battle suffered power scaling differences. Oro's version of Edo Tensei was still not complete to its full potential, and as such Hiruzen was able to match the Senju Bros. He had Enma, a Kage-level taijutsu fighter, a fighting style unknown to the brothers, and intimate familiarity with AT LEAST Tobirama's techniques. He also had Shiki Fuuin, and that served him well enough. If Hiruzen fought against Oro's incomplete Senju combo in part 2, he would still have won.



    It was incomplete, and Orochimaru improved it. AT MOST, he should be able to summon a Hashirama on the level shown against Hiruzen, adjusted for power differences. But not adjusted as far as you seem to think. If Old Hiruzen can deal with the Edo Senju Bros, these three can deal with an Incomplete Edo and a real one.

    On the other hand it's entirely possible that Tobirama's Edo Tensei simply CAN'T be used to summon high-level ninja at their full potential. Perhaps it summons hordes of genin-level opponents? We just don't know.

    In any case, he has no sacrifice, no genetic material save his own, and prep time wasn't specified in the scenario. He probably can't even summon ANYONE.



    Not every S/T is teleportation. We have no evidence AT ALL that Tobirama can teleport. Kamui is hard if not impossible to avoid without having Kamui yourself (even Minato wouldn't have been able to avoid it if Obito had been serious). Saying a completely undemonstrated S/T would be able to escape Kamui when FTG wouldn't have been enough had Obito been serious is just not rational.

    Kuchiose is an S/T. Edo Tensei is an S/T. Not saying it's the only S/T Tobirama could use, but it's definitely a possibility. A far likelier one than that he can teleport on the level of FTG without even using superkunai.



    Gai was battling BEFORE using Hirudora for quite a while. He'd already been fighting for the past few days, not least on the same day, against the Jinchuuriki, where he used Asa Kujaku. A single Hirudora has NEVER been enough to tire him out.

    Tsunade is in two pieces right now, yet she's about to heal the Kages. Five of them. From lethal injuries. Of course, if she dies halfway through the first one, then that's that. I somehow doubt it, though. If she's not exhausted from fighting the likes of Madara, woozy from massive blood-loss, chakra-depleted from fighting the likes of Madara...

    She'd heal Gai's Gate damage EASILY, is what I'm saying.



    Oh he's not brilliant, but he doesn't need to be. He can fight someone from watching the way they shift their weight: Gai is peerless within his chosen field. His "stupidity" seems to work out pretty well for him; Kisame was VERY annoyed by his "inability" to remember his name, and annoyance makes you sloppy. You don't survive to be a ninja of Gai's level by making mistakes in battle.

    Hirudora has overcome extremely powerful chakra constructs every time it's been used; Kisame, the "Tailless Bijuuu" used his single strongest technique to counter, Madara's Complete Susano'o vanished and he was unable to continue the battle for a whole issue. Whether or not he would have been killed is irrelevant: Hirudora took him out, just like Kisame. If it lands, Tobirama is beaten. Unless Tobirama posesses a defense more powerful than Madara's Susano'o and can immediately counter Kakashi and Tsunade's attacks.



    Water clones are pretty much solely useful for water techniques, being so much weaker than, say, shadow clones. They'd be easily taken out by any of Tobirama's opponents in hand to hand, and en masse by techniques of Asa Kujaku's calibre.

    Gai wouldn't be exhausted by Morning Peacock, he was able to use Hirudora afterwards both times the technique has been shown, as well as extended fighting bothe before and after in the newest case. And here, he has Tsunade.



    She's been shown capable to react fast enough to bat MADARA'S Katon jutsu right out of the air. She's not exactly helpless in the face of Tobirama's overwhelming might:



    Hashirama was universally considered superior to Tobirama, and Tsunade has several similarities in fighting style to Tobi's elder brother. She can heal OTHERS, though, and is stronger, but can't use Mokuton.



    The thing is, Tsunade can serve as a chakra battery for Kakashi just as easily as she can a healing station for Gai. The Eternal Rivals with something like three times their normal endurance = Good luck, Tobirama.



    No, he can't. No proof. At all. Gai's speed seemed to serve him well enough against Kisame. Kisame has unique Water Jutsu of chakra-absorbing properties, and chakra-reserves on the level of a Bijuu. If anything, Tobirama's Suiton should be SMALLER in scale than Kisame's.



    Well he CAN use it five or so times, even after extended combat, several Raikiri and variations, and at least one shadow clone.

    And Tsunade gave some of her Senju-level chakra-reserves to Oonoki, with impressive results: He takes out 25 Susano'o clones in ONE ATTACK. Tsunade can grant Kakashi the ability to use Kamui pretty freely in this battle.



    Low Kage-level? That's underrating them. Tobirama's techniques are Suiton, in all likelyhood of a smaller scale than Kisame's, incomplete Edo Tensei, and an unknown S/T which may very well BE Edto Tensei. It's just not enough.



    The as-yet-still-living team have, at least two of them, excellent teamwork, and Tsunade is pretty useful in any sort of team. Even if Tobirama can summon Hashirama, I give it to the living group 7 or 8/10. Without him, the most likely scenario in any case, it's closer to completely guaranteed that they'd win.
    If you are suggesting that Hiruzen could defeat the current, edo Senju bros I would both have to adamantly disagree and question your awareness of their abilities.

    Yes, Tobirama's ET is very murky territory. But I still believe that if he had even a part 1 edo Hashirama he could beat these three opponents. If you are right and ET would simply be unworkable for him in this battle, then I previously stated 6/10 imo for the trio.

    Minato directly related Tobi's teleportation s/t and Tobirama's s/t. He would not do that if Tobirama's s/t was summoning. And that coupled with the fact that s/t is defined enough for us to extrapolate, it is almost sure that Tobirama could teleport, and therefore avoid kamui, which is slower based on size and distance.

    Saying that Gai has never been tired out from a single hirudora is just blatantly incorrect. Every time he is literally unable to move and every touch sends him into intense pain. I don't care if he used asakujaku once, he can use hirudora after that, but not again without more chakra and healing. And the reason why I say it would be unlikely for Tsunade to replenish it, though she certainly has the ability to do so, is because I doubt Tobirama would give her a chance to.

    Tobirama isn't Kisame. Kisame and Gai were both lower intelligence. Tobirama is high vs Gai's lower. He's not getting tricked. Kisame's strongest jutsu was a ninjutsu absorber and Gai used taijutsu, obviously hirudora would beat it so that means nothing. And including Kisame's strength only reinforces hirudora's weakness because it still allowed him to fight. Like I said, Tobirama getting hit by hirudora is not the end because Gai isn't smart and Tobirama has water clones, so my guess is he hits a copy.

    Yes, the peacock works well on clones but he can always make a few more. And they are valuable, because they can do water prisons.

    We don't know how fast the katon were going so we can't judge reaction; I was just making the point that Tsunade always tanks or deflects, never avoids, in any case.

    Like I've said many times Tobirama can launch enough offense: water clones, massive water jutsus, perhaps ET, to prevent Tsunade from sitting down and healing either of her teammates enough so that they'd be useful again.

    You yourself brought up the proof that Tobirama can teleport, Minato's words. Tobirama has senju level chakra and is the best suiton user. That means, yes, his suitons are on a larger scale than Kisame's.

    That's jinton, my friend, the best jutsu in the manga. Now that still doesn't change that Kakashi can't spam kamuis left and right, which impairs his side.

    Low Kage level is not underrating them, it's changing the title of Kage to average. As for Tobirama's techniques, he has the most massive and extensive suiton, likely operational ET, teleportation, clones, sensing, etc, etc. He is definitely on another level though not a sure win or perhaps even a close one vs these opponents.

    Now saying they could beat Hashirama and Tobirama 7/10 I don't think anyone else would agree with, even if you may be right about the trio beating Tobirama (though I'd call it close).
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricClover View Post
    If you are suggesting that Hiruzen could defeat the current, edo Senju bros I would both have to adamantly disagree and question your awareness of their abilities.

    Yes, Tobirama's ET is very murky territory. But I still believe that if he had even a part 1 edo Hashirama he could beat these three opponents. If you are right and ET would simply be unworkable for him in this battle, then I previously stated 6/10 imo for the trio.

    Minato directly related Tobi's teleportation s/t and Tobirama's s/t. He would not do that if Tobirama's s/t was summoning. And that coupled with the fact that s/t is defined enough for us to extrapolate, it is almost sure that Tobirama could teleport, and therefore avoid kamui, which is slower based on size and distance.

    Saying that Gai has never been tired out from a single hirudora is just blatantly incorrect. Every time he is literally unable to move and every touch sends him into intense pain. I don't care if he used asakujaku once, he can use hirudora after that, but not again without more chakra and healing. And the reason why I say it would be unlikely for Tsunade to replenish it, though she certainly has the ability to do so, is because I doubt Tobirama would give her a chance to.

    Tobirama isn't Kisame. Kisame and Gai were both lower intelligence. Tobirama is high vs Gai's lower. He's not getting tricked. Kisame's strongest jutsu was a ninjutsu absorber and Gai used taijutsu, obviously hirudora would beat it so that means nothing. And including Kisame's strength only reinforces hirudora's weakness because it still allowed him to fight. Like I said, Tobirama getting hit by hirudora is not the end because Gai isn't smart and Tobirama has water clones, so my guess is he hits a copy.

    Yes, the peacock works well on clones but he can always make a few more. And they are valuable, because they can do water prisons.

    We don't know how fast the katon were going so we can't judge reaction; I was just making the point that Tsunade always tanks or deflects, never avoids, in any case.

    Like I've said many times Tobirama can launch enough offense: water clones, massive water jutsus, perhaps ET, to prevent Tsunade from sitting down and healing either of her teammates enough so that they'd be useful again.

    You yourself brought up the proof that Tobirama can teleport, Minato's words. Tobirama has senju level chakra and is the best suiton user. That means, yes, his suitons are on a larger scale than Kisame's.

    That's jinton, my friend, the best jutsu in the manga. Now that still doesn't change that Kakashi can't spam kamuis left and right, which impairs his side.

    Low Kage level is not underrating them, it's changing the title of Kage to average. As for Tobirama's techniques, he has the most massive and extensive suiton, likely operational ET, teleportation, clones, sensing, etc, etc. He is definitely on another level though not a sure win or perhaps even a close one vs these opponents.

    Now saying they could beat Hashirama and Tobirama 7/10 I don't think anyone else would agree with, even if you may be right about the trio beating Tobirama (though I'd call it close).
    Oh man. I totally missed this.
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Team 2 low-med difficulty. We have hardly any info on Tobirama.
     
         

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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by NagatoManiac View Post
    Team 2 low-med difficulty. We have hardly any info on Tobirama.
    I guess you're right because I'm not in the mood to debate
     
         

  25. #125
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    Re: Tobirama Senju vs Tsunade, Kakashi and Gai

    Quote Originally Posted by NagatoManiac View Post
    Team 2 low-med difficulty. We have hardly any info on Tobirama.
    This.
     
         

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