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  1. #51
    Member Amelius's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by arv993 View Post
    that is ur assumption he didnt train with the rinnegan he wasnt a master as far as we have seen but he has clearly used the preta path, he has used the gedo mazo according to himself. And he has shown that he is able to manipulate metors with gravity similar to nagato. So far he has shown us quite a few techniques with the rinnegan and shown to use it quite well.

    nagato>everyone non edo LOL get out of here. Plot favored nagato as well it made sure 90% of naruto's arsenal was away from him during his encounter with nagato. all his clones were elsewhere in various battlefields which could have made naruto's victory a lot simpler.

    u must not have realized some other characters such as tobi or kabuto who both at the height of their powers can crush nagato.

    And naruto at his full power also can beat nagato. with his multiple clones bm, sm etc along with his summons are enough to stop the likes of nagato. Dont overrate nagato he is one of the best but definitely not the best.
    Can you really justify it? madara himself stated he awaken the rinnegan before his death, and it can be interrupted that what he meant by death was that he became almost completely useless.. which in his point of view would mean he died... So can you justify Madara "dying" but then train to master the rinnegan? Like really?
     
         

  2. #52
    Senior Member KidGamer65's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke082594 View Post
    I read it, but are you reading my speculations? Are there any "reasonable" counterarguments to my statement?
    The first scan shows that Madara had PS when he fought Oonoki due to Oonoki asking why didn't you use your full power on me (right after noting that this is Madara's full power, and Madara noted this too).

    He activated Complete Susanoo with his Rinnegan so him using Rinnegan with PS as proof of it being a Rinnegan tech has no merit.
     
         

  3. #53
    Member Amelius's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke082594 View Post
    You typed just what i expect people who believe PS=EMS to type. I'm asking why? If it's apparently completely useless. I'll answer that though. He needs the Rinnegan to use PS! Which was obviously needed to take down the 5 kages.
    It is what you expected because it is accurate! When did I say anything was useless? You have proved nothing! We have no idea how he took out the kages.... From what was shown it was mokuton that beat them... which btw is not rinnegan based. So again You cant prove Ps=Rinnegan. But you can with the evidence shown to deduce that Susanno=EMS.. when have we ever in the history of naruto come across a jutsu( which is what susanno is) to be spilt between 2 seperate ( although connected) dojutsu?
     
         

  4. #54
    Senior Member arv993's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke082594 View Post
    He still had his Rinnegan activated though.. NB'ers claim that Madara doesn't know how to use the Rinnegan just to back up EMS=PS. So why use a completely useless dojutsu(according to NB'ers in relation to Madara) in battle?
    well madara almost comes out and says its an ems tech when he was talking to oonoki about not using his full power against him and muu. He has the rinnegan on maybe if he had to absorb all the ninjutsu techs thrown by the kages which he did on a few occasions.
     
         

  5. #55
    Senior Member arv993's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelius View Post
    Can you really justify it? madara himself stated he awaken the rinnegan before his death, and it can be interrupted that what he meant by death was that he became almost completely useless.. which in his point of view would mean he died... So can you justify Madara "dying" but then train to master the rinnegan? Like really?
    explain to me how he knew so much about the rinnegan without using it. how did he know what the rinne tensei jutsu is, he has shown to be the first one to use gedo, he was shown to use the preta path, he was shown to use the meteors on much bigger scale than nagato himself that shows he is quite good with the rinnegan. i did not say he was a master but he was a good user and so far from his use and knowledge of the rinnegan it can be easily understood. he had time its not like he got the rinnegan and fell to the ground and died, he had some time to come up with a tsuki no me plan etc, and give it to nagato and lived until obito's time through the mazo itself. in that time he could have learned more about the rinnegan and he has clearly shown he is very knowledgeable saying he is a noob with the rinnegan is absurd. he is a pretty adept user atleast from what he has shown with the rinnegan.
     
         

  6. #56
    Karasu Blaze Release's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    The key word here is stabilise. There is no such a technique as perfect susano.
    There is however a technique as susano which is the Mangekyo's technique and that only. When one masters the ability of the Mangekyo in both eyes do they have access to this. Since the ems is a stage above the ms, its accurate to say that it will advance the abilities of the ms. We have seen ms sasuke's final form susano, this was against kakashi before he went blind. We saw sasuke's latest susano, it was clear that the ems has boosted his susano and has even added amaterasu orb.

    Certain one's sasuke masters the ems will he have a full form susano. That is the ability of the (mangekyo) ems
     
         
    Last edited by Blaze Release; 11-12-2012 at 11:09 PM.

  7. #57
    Rikudo Sennin NarutoFan20's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze Release View Post
    The key word here is stabilise. There is no such a technique as perfect susano.
    There is however a technique as susano which is the Mangekyo's technique and that only. When one masters the ability of the Mangekyo in both eyes do they have access to this.
    Wow your logic is incredible + rep
     
         

  8. #58
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Rinnegan = one of the strongest dojutsu
     
         

  9. #59
    Member Encon Uchiha's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelius View Post
    Lets put it this way. A Fully Realized Rinnegan is the stronger of the 2; however in Madara status, his EMS is far stronger than his rinnegan. He is not adapt at using the rinnegan. thus far he has only used two (that we know for 100%) rinnegan unique abilities. One being the gedou mazou and the preta path. Thats it!

    As for the PS being Rinnegan... that is highly unlikely. Susanno has always been linked with the sharingan derived abilities meaning MS and EMS; Nothing we have learned in regards to the rinnegan suggest that PS is derived from the rinnegan. And while the rinnegan comes from sharingan in some currently unknown method. Its not enough evidence to say it is from the rinnegan. If we recall: madara did state that those who see PS do not normally live to tell their story; which suggest he has used it more then just once and he used it against someone. as he said himself, he awakened the rinnegan shortly before he "death" so we know he didnt use Ps after Rinnegan, therefore he had to come before... via EMS!

    The only REAL signifiance to PS is the stablization of the chakra used to create it... from what I can tell!
    THANK YOU.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    , PS is simply Madara's Final Susanoo, so if you want to tell me Final Susanoo needs Rinnegan, then I don't know what to say.

    Believing it is a Rinnegan tech is baseless because...

    Oonoki asked why he didn't use his full power on him (Perfect Susanoo was noted as his full power by Madara himself just before this).


    Madara uses Incomplete or Complete Susanoo with Rinnegan right here so why would you jump to conclusions and say that it is a
    Rinnegan tech just cause he used Rinnegan with PS?



    Perfect Susanoo is NOT a Rinnegan technique and there is NO reason to believe that it is.

    Why would any Susanoo need Rinnegan when it is an MS technique, it makes absolutely ZERO sense.
    Thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke082594 View Post
    It is very true.. I'm about to state that will end all speculation.. If PS is an EMS tech then why does Madara have his Rinnegan activated?
    With Rinnegan active,it includes his EMS since Rinnegan is evolution from EMS hence all the techniques from EMS can be used while using Rinnegan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke082594 View Post
    NB'ers confirm that Madara apparently doesn't know how to use the Rinnegan(clearly states though that he did know because he tried to take Senju DNA so he obviously knew about the Rinnegan's powers) If you all claim that PS is an EMS tech then why doesn't he just use his EMS in battle and not the Rinnegan?
    Theres a difference between knowing about Rinnegan powers and knowing how to USE THEM. Naruto knows all about Ngato's powers since he fought him but doesnt know how to use them. Your messing up words dude. The only Rinnegan powers Madara has shown is Gedo Mazu and Preta Path.

    How the hell can you say Perfect Susanoo is a Rinnegan ability when the original Susanoo is a Mangekyou ability?? Has Nagato ever used Perfect Susanoo? NO . AND he was the best user of the Rinnegan. He used all paths in spearate bodies AND he could use them all in one body when fighting Itachi,Naruto and KillerBee. If he is the best Rinnegan user and cant use Susanoo then its obvious Susanoo isnt from RINNEGANNN DUMBNUT!

    Madara died shortly after acquiring Rinnegan so how the hell could he master Susanoo when hes old and wrinkled up and has to be attached to Gedo Mazu to live? The two posters up described exactly why Susanoo isnt from Rinnegan but all you say "Well hes using Rinnegan whiling using it, it must be Rinnegan tech". If Sasuke uses fireball jutsu while his sharingan is active doesnt mean its a shraingan exclusive technique, it just means hes uses his fire technique while sharingan active because its better suited for battle.

    Madara can use all his EMS techniques while his Rinnegan is active,it doesnt mean their all Rinnegan techniques. Come back with a logical response or shut the hell up numbnuts
     
         

  10. #60
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    I'm glad I'm not the only one who realizes ps is a rinnengan tech. It seems bs theories are excepted as facts far to easily on NB, there is no hard evidence that ps is a ems tech while on the other hand the simple fact that madara was required to activate rinnengan before summoning ps is almost definite prove its not a ems tech. Fanboys even go as far to say sasuke and itachi also have ps lmao give me a break.
     
         

  11. #61
    Member Encon Uchiha's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonwisdom View Post
    I'm glad I'm not the only one who realizes ps is a rinnengan tech. It seems bs theories are excepted as facts far to easily on NB, there is no hard evidence that ps is a ems tech while on the other hand the simple fact that madara was required to activate rinnengan before summoning ps is almost definite prove its not a ems tech. Fanboys even go as far to say sasuke and itachi also have ps lmao give me a break.
    Nope. He activated it to use Preta path or he would be destroyed by RasenShuriken. and there would be no reason to go back to EMS since he already got his Rinnegan active. You fail.

    No one has said that. You double fail.
     
         

  12. #62
    Rikudo Sennin NarutoFan20's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Encon Uchiha View Post
    THANK YOU.


    Thank you




    With Rinnegan active,it includes his EMS since Rinnegan is evolution from EMS hence all the techniques from EMS can be used while using Rinnegan.



    Theres a difference between knowing about Rinnegan powers and knowing how to USE THEM. Naruto knows all about Ngato's powers since he fought him but doesnt know how to use them. Your messing up words dude. The only Rinnegan powers Madara has shown is Gedo Mazu and Preta Path.

    How the hell can you say Perfect Susanoo is a Rinnegan ability when the original Susanoo is a Mangekyou ability?? Has Nagato ever used Perfect Susanoo? NO . AND he was the best user of the Rinnegan. He used all paths in spearate bodies AND he could use them all in one body when fighting Itachi,Naruto and KillerBee. If he is the best Rinnegan user and cant use Susanoo then its obvious Susanoo isnt from RINNEGANNN DUMBNUT!

    Madara died shortly after acquiring Rinnegan so how the hell could he master Susanoo when hes old and wrinkled up and has to be attached to Gedo Mazu to live? The two posters up described exactly why Susanoo isnt from Rinnegan but all you say "Well hes using Rinnegan whiling using it, it must be Rinnegan tech". If Sasuke uses fireball jutsu while his sharingan is active doesnt mean its a shraingan exclusive technique, it just means hes uses his fire technique while sharingan active because its better suited for battle.

    Madara can use all his EMS techniques while his Rinnegan is active,it doesnt mean their all Rinnegan techniques. Come back with a logical response or shut the hell up numbnuts
    ^This
     
         

  13. #63
    Kaika Saisei 開花再生 Chatte's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Encon Uchiha View Post
    Sasuke perfect Susanoo '


    Itachi perfect Susanoo


    Madara perfect Susanoo


    Madara perfect Susanoo (chakra stabilized)


    I hope that helps guys. Madaras is bigger because he is adept at Susanoo and was known to have one of the most powerful chakras in Narutoverse. The stabilized version is only exclusize to Madara though.

    i have extensive knowledge about Susanoo and prolly will explain it all in a thread later but right now i gotta go to class,i can maybe reply there but it wil be hard
    Itachi and Sasuke have Complete Susano'o, not Perfect.

    So until shown otherwise, we can safely assume Perfect Susano'o is Rinnegan Tech.
     
         

  14. #64
    Senior Member KidGamer65's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonwisdom View Post
    I'm glad I'm not the only one who realizes ps is a rinnengan tech. It seems bs theories are excepted as facts far to easily on NB, there is no hard evidence that ps is a ems tech while on the other hand the simple fact that madara was required to activate rinnengan before summoning ps is almost definite prove its not a ems tech. Fanboys even go as far to say sasuke and itachi also have ps lmao give me a break.
    Posts like these are very annoying, read the thread over before you post, everything you just said has been countered already.


    This goes to everyone who believes PS is a Rinnegan tech..

    Explain why you believe this, and don't mention something that's already been countered in previous posts unless you have a rebuttal.
     
         
    Last edited by KidGamer65; 11-13-2012 at 12:00 AM.

  15. #65
    Member Encon Uchiha's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatte View Post
    Itachi and Sasuke have Complete Susano'o, not Perfect.

    So until shown otherwise, we can safely assume Perfect Susano'o is Rinnegan Tech.
    Read my post above. Susanoo is from Mangekyou ,not Rinnegan, if it was a Rinnegan technique, Nagato the best user of Rinnegan would've used it.

    Madara's is Perfect (chakra stabilized). Itachi's and Sasuke's are Perfect unstabilized .

    Im not replying to any more comments until someone can respond with a logical explanation why they think Rinnegan is EMS tech.
     
         

  16. #66
    Kaika Saisei 開花再生 Chatte's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Encon Uchiha View Post
    Read my post above. Susanoo is from Mangekyou ,not Rinnegan, if it was a Rinnegan technique, Nagato the best user of Rinnegan would've used it.

    Madara's is Perfect (chakra stabilized). Itachi's and Sasuke's are Perfect unstabilized .

    Im not replying to any more comments until someone can respond with a logical explanation why they think Rinnegan is EMS tech.
    Susano'o it is, indeed, from Mangekyo, however, in order to perfect it, you need Rinnegan (presumably).
    Nagato couldn't have used it because he had Rinnegan transplanted directly, he didn't had first Sharingan, then Mangekyo and then Rinnegan.

    In a way I could care less, but he did have Rinnegan activated.
    Probably this matter will be later explained..
     
         

  17. #67
    Senior Member Turson's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    I will allow myself to quote post from other thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by kit View Post
    That's not even what Madara said.

    These are his exact words:








    Madara: "Well then...The complete Susano'o. It is said that anyone who has seen it dies."

    "It is said" implies that it is not set in stone that anyone who has seen Susano'o couldn't live to tell about it. This is evident by the Kages standing right in Madara's face still alive even though they had witnessed/experienced the power of PS. Also remember that Hashirama went up against (and survived) Madara's PS.





    Since Hashirama has already faced the magnificent/almighty PS (as acknowledged by Madara), it can be greatly implied that Madara needs EMS to use PS.








    Tsunade says: "Did my grandfather really fight against this...?"

    Notice how Tsunade is looking up as she makes her statement. Also notice how Tsunade says "this". That would imply that Tsunade was referring to an inanimate object (PS) when making her statement.

    I pointed the aforementioned out so I could cut down any confusion on who/what Tsunade was referring to when making her statement.

    Madara responds to Tsunade with: "I already told you that the only one who can stop me is Hashirama."

    Now...why does Madara say this?...because he is answering the question that Tsunade had just asked. He indirectly answers her question by saying only Hashirama can defeat me. In other words, Madara doesn't literally say the words "Hashirama can beat my PS", but this is understood since:

    1. Madara says Hashirama is "the only one who can stop me"
    2. There's no way Madara could have defeated Hashi without using his full power since Madara needed the kyuubi's help to fight Hashi (Hashi must have just been that strong)

    Madara throws out another hint that Hashi has fought PS when he says: "Plus, I should say that it's probably a good thing for you that he is not here...Because..."

    Madara then proceeds to use PS power to destroy some mountains as seen below:





    Then Madara says this:





    Madara: "If I'm the only one here...The extent to which the maps will need to be drawn won't be too drastic."

    Madara saying the above statement implies that Madara and Hashi have had battles to where they have devastated the battlefield. Which of Madara's powers/techs can devastate a battlefield? PS can which he had just demonstrated when he destroyed those mountains.

    This is a great and definitive indication that Madara has used PS against Hashirama.





    Most of what I have just showed you is enough evidence to prove that Madara has used PS against Hashirama. Since Madara has used PS against Hashi, there is no way that he would need Senju DNA to use PS since he has used it before he had Senju DNA.
    +
    Quote Originally Posted by Turson View Post
    Perfect Susanoo is EMS justsu. Onooki even asked why Madara didnt use it against him in the past, Madara answered that there was no need to use it against a kid.
    Its obvious that Perfect Susanoo is EMS, not Rinnegan technique. Get over it, people.
     
         
    Last edited by Turson; 11-13-2012 at 12:13 AM.

  18. #68
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    *sigh*
     
         

  19. #69
    Member Namikaze Haru's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by arv993 View Post
    that is ur assumption he didnt train with the rinnegan he wasnt a master as far as we have seen but he has clearly used the preta path, he has used the gedo mazo according to himself. And he has shown that he is able to manipulate metors with gravity similar to nagato. So far he has shown us quite a few techniques with the rinnegan and shown to use it quite well.

    nagato>everyone non edo LOL get out of here. Plot favored nagato as well it made sure 90% of naruto's arsenal was away from him during his encounter with nagato. all his clones were elsewhere in various battlefields which could have made naruto's victory a lot simpler.

    u must not have realized some other characters such as tobi or kabuto who both at the height of their powers can crush nagato.

    And naruto at his full power also can beat nagato. with his multiple clones bm, sm etc along with his summons are enough to stop the likes of nagato. Dont overrate nagato he is one of the best but definitely not the best.
    lol sry mate but nagato was not favoured by plot, he was in fact probably that character that got trolled the most in naruto. a fully powered nagato with no injuries can defeat a BM naruto as well as kabuto. maybe not obito due to kamui.

    now let me rephrase what i have been tryning to about PS. why am i saying that it is an rinnegan technique. im not saying it is an rinnegan technique exactly. Susanoo is an MS/EMS technique but PS is gained with EMS + Senju DNA and so is the rinnegan. PS and rinnegan are abilties gained by an EMS user who now has senju DNA.

    i explained it better in my previous thread

    by stating that PS is an EMS only jutsu is like saying sasuke has now gained PS.
     
         

  20. #70
    Senior Member KidGamer65's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Namikaze Haru View Post
    lol sry mate but nagato was not favoured by plot, he was in fact probably that character that got trolled the most in naruto. a fully powered nagato with no injuries can defeat a BM naruto as well as kabuto. maybe not obito due to kamui.

    now let me rephrase what i have been tryning to about PS. why am i saying that it is an rinnegan technique. im not saying it is an rinnegan technique exactly. Susanoo is an MS/EMS technique but PS is gained with EMS + Senju DNA and so is the rinnegan. PS and rinnegan are abilties gained by an EMS user who now has senju DNA.

    i explained it better in my previous thread

    by stating that PS is an EMS only jutsu is like saying sasuke has now gained PS.
    What you believe is baseless speculation and the fact is that PS is an EMS technique. (until stated otherwise).

    @bold: Really? We have been over this before, his Susanoo evolves through usage...how is he going to have PS when he hasn't fought seriously since he fought Danzo?
     
         

  21. #71
    Member Namikaze Haru's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    What you believe is baseless speculation and the fact is that PS is an EMS technique. (until stated otherwise).

    @bold: Really? We have been over this before, his Susanoo evolves through usage...how is he going to have PS when he hasn't fought seriously since he fought Danzo?
    sigh... really now? then let me tell you something EMS is the same as MS, you just don't go blind now. when obito states the progression of the eyes, he says it in this order Sharingan, Mangekyou Sharingan, then Rinnegan. he does not state EMS. i told u before we have already seen sasuke's final susanoo. sasuke finally completes susanoo against kakashi and this was still the same susanoo he used against zetsu (it looks a little different and now has amaterasu coating but still the same), Sasuke will not get PS through EMS alone. and like i said before that sasuke's progress will maybe reveal the origin of PS.
     
         

  22. #72
    Member Encon Uchiha's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Namikaze Haru View Post
    sigh... really now? then let me tell you something EMS is the same as MS, you just don't go blind now. when obito states the progression of the eyes, he says it in this order Sharingan, Mangekyou Sharingan, then Rinnegan. he does not state EMS. i told u before we have already seen sasuke's final susanoo. sasuke finally completes susanoo against kakashi and this was still the same susanoo he used against zetsu (it looks a little different and now has amaterasu coating but still the same), Sasuke will not get PS through EMS alone. and like i said before that sasuke's progress will maybe reveal the origin of PS.
    Perfect Susanoo can be attained through years of training Susanoo. Madara had Susanoo for 70+ years. Sasukes had it for like 2 months lol,of course he cant use it yet. It has nothing to do with Rinnegan. I wonder why people dont quote my post above that states exactly why it cant be from Rinnegan...wussiess dont have a comeback
     
         

  23. #73
    Member Namikaze Haru's Avatar
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Encon Uchiha View Post
    Perfect Susanoo can be attained through years of training Susanoo. Madara had Susanoo for 70+ years. Sasukes had it for like 2 months lol,of course he cant use it yet. It has nothing to do with Rinnegan. I wonder why people dont quote my post above that states exactly why it cant be from Rinnegan...wussiess dont have a comeback
    PS attained through years of training, thats is laughable. because according to many people sasuke will gain PS, and i doubt we have years left in naruto. and no madara did not have susanoo for 70+ years because he gave his eyes away and originally he did not gain EMS until he was around 20-30. nothing to do with rinnegan? like i said both PS and Rinnegan are gained by an EMS user who has obtained senju DNA. i did not read ur earlier post by judging from this post i think i know why people are not quoting...
     
         

  24. #74
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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Namikaze Haru View Post
    sigh... really now? then let me tell you something EMS is the same as MS, you just don't go blind now. when obito states the progression of the eyes, he says it in this order Sharingan, Mangekyou Sharingan, then Rinnegan. he does not state EMS. i told u before we have already seen sasuke's final susanoo. sasuke finally completes susanoo against kakashi and this was still the same susanoo he used against zetsu (it looks a little different and now has amaterasu coating but still the same), Sasuke will not get PS through EMS alone. and like i said before that sasuke's progress will maybe reveal the origin of PS.
    EMS is a fusion of 2 MS it is not the same as MS, Obito never mentioned anything about MS going to Rinnegan since you need EMS for Rinnegan.

    It goes Sharingan to MS to EMS to Rinnegan, PS is an EMS technique and that is all you need to use it, show some evidence that hasn't been countered already that supports your claim.

    Sasuke's Susanoo evolves through usage..
     
         
    Last edited by KidGamer65; 11-13-2012 at 09:48 AM.

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    Re: So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

    Madara made it very clear he had used it against Hashirama long before he even implanted Senju DNA in himself. Perfect Susanoo is just the final stage of Susanoo, purely EMS.
     
         

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