So EMS is stronger than Rinnegan?

[Encon Uchiha]

Itachi and Sasuke have Complete Susano'o, not Perfect.

So until shown otherwise, we can safely assume Perfect Susano'o is Rinnegan Tech.

Read my post above. Susanoo is from Mangekyou ,not Rinnegan, if it was a Rinnegan technique, Nagato the best user of Rinnegan would've used it.

Madara's is Perfect (chakra stabilized). Itachi's and Sasuke's are Perfect unstabilized .

Im not replying to any more comments until someone can respond with a logical explanation why they think Rinnegan is EMS tech.

[Chatte]

Read my post above. Susanoo is from Mangekyou ,not Rinnegan, if it was a Rinnegan technique, Nagato the best user of Rinnegan would've used it.

Madara's is Perfect (chakra stabilized). Itachi's and Sasuke's are Perfect unstabilized .

Im not replying to any more comments until someone can respond with a logical explanation why they think Rinnegan is EMS tech.

Susano'o it is, indeed, from Mangekyo, however, in order to perfect it, you need Rinnegan (presumably).
Nagato couldn't have used it because he had Rinnegan transplanted directly, he didn't had first Sharingan, then Mangekyo and then Rinnegan.

In a way I could care less, but he did have Rinnegan activated.
Probably this matter will be later explained..

[Turson]

I will allow myself to quote post from other thread.

That's not even what Madara said.

These are his exact words:

Madara: "Well then...The complete Susano'o. It is said that anyone who has seen it dies."

"It is said" implies that it is not set in stone that anyone who has seen Susano'o couldn't live to tell about it. This is evident by the Kages standing right in Madara's face still alive even though they had witnessed/experienced the power of PS. Also remember that Hashirama went up against (and survived) Madara's PS.

Since Hashirama has already faced the magnificent/almighty PS (as acknowledged by Madara), it can be greatly implied that Madara needs EMS to use PS.

Tsunade says: "Did my grandfather really fight against this...?"

Notice how Tsunade is looking up as she makes her statement. Also notice how Tsunade says "this". That would imply that Tsunade was referring to an inanimate object (PS) when making her statement.

I pointed the aforementioned out so I could cut down any confusion on who/what Tsunade was referring to when making her statement.

Madara responds to Tsunade with: "I already told you that the only one who can stop me is Hashirama."

Now...why does Madara say this?...because he is answering the question that Tsunade had just asked. He indirectly answers her question by saying only Hashirama can defeat me. In other words, Madara doesn't literally say the words "Hashirama can beat my PS", but this is understood since:

1. Madara says Hashirama is "the only one who can stop me"
2. There's no way Madara could have defeated Hashi without using his full power since Madara needed the kyuubi's help to fight Hashi (Hashi must have just been that strong)

Madara throws out another hint that Hashi has fought PS when he says: "Plus, I should say that it's probably a good thing for you that he is not here...Because..."

Madara then proceeds to use PS power to destroy some mountains as seen below:





Then Madara says this:





Madara: "If I'm the only one here...The extent to which the maps will need to be drawn won't be too drastic."

Madara saying the above statement implies that Madara and Hashi have had battles to where they have devastated the battlefield. Which of Madara's powers/techs can devastate a battlefield? PS can which he had just demonstrated when he destroyed those mountains.

This is a great and definitive indication that Madara has used PS against Hashirama.

Most of what I have just showed you is enough evidence to prove that Madara has used PS against Hashirama. Since Madara has used PS against Hashi, there is no way that he would need Senju DNA to use PS since he has used it before he had Senju DNA.

+

Perfect Susanoo is EMS justsu. Onooki even asked why Madara didnt use it against him in the past, Madara answered that there was no need to use it against a kid.

Its obvious that Perfect Susanoo is EMS, not Rinnegan technique. Get over it, people.

[Edge]

*sigh*

[Namikaze Haru]

that is ur assumption he didnt train with the rinnegan he wasnt a master as far as we have seen but he has clearly used the preta path, he has used the gedo mazo according to himself. And he has shown that he is able to manipulate metors with gravity similar to nagato. So far he has shown us quite a few techniques with the rinnegan and shown to use it quite well.

nagato>everyone non edo LOL get out of here. Plot favored nagato as well it made sure 90% of naruto's arsenal was away from him during his encounter with nagato. all his clones were elsewhere in various battlefields which could have made naruto's victory a lot simpler.

u must not have realized some other characters such as tobi or kabuto who both at the height of their powers can crush nagato.

And naruto at his full power also can beat nagato. with his multiple clones bm, sm etc along with his summons are enough to stop the likes of nagato. Dont overrate nagato he is one of the best but definitely not the best.

lol sry mate but nagato was not favoured by plot, he was in fact probably that character that got trolled the most in naruto. a fully powered nagato with no injuries can defeat a BM naruto as well as kabuto. maybe not obito due to kamui.

now let me rephrase what i have been tryning to about PS. why am i saying that it is an rinnegan technique. im not saying it is an rinnegan technique exactly. Susanoo is an MS/EMS technique but PS is gained with EMS + Senju DNA and so is the rinnegan. PS and rinnegan are abilties gained by an EMS user who now has senju DNA.

i explained it better in my previous thread

by stating that PS is an EMS only jutsu is like saying sasuke has now gained PS.

[KidGamer65]

lol sry mate but nagato was not favoured by plot, he was in fact probably that character that got trolled the most in naruto. a fully powered nagato with no injuries can defeat a BM naruto as well as kabuto. maybe not obito due to kamui.

now let me rephrase what i have been tryning to about PS. why am i saying that it is an rinnegan technique. im not saying it is an rinnegan technique exactly. Susanoo is an MS/EMS technique but PS is gained with EMS + Senju DNA and so is the rinnegan. PS and rinnegan are abilties gained by an EMS user who now has senju DNA.

i explained it better in my previous thread

by stating that PS is an EMS only jutsu is like saying sasuke has now gained PS.

What you believe is baseless speculation and the fact is that PS is an EMS technique. (until stated otherwise).

@bold: Really? We have been over this before, his Susanoo evolves through usage...how is he going to have PS when he hasn't fought seriously since he fought Danzo?

[Namikaze Haru]

What you believe is baseless speculation and the fact is that PS is an EMS technique. (until stated otherwise).

@bold: Really? We have been over this before, his Susanoo evolves through usage...how is he going to have PS when he hasn't fought seriously since he fought Danzo?

sigh... really now? then let me tell you something EMS is the same as MS, you just don't go blind now. when obito states the progression of the eyes, he says it in this order Sharingan, Mangekyou Sharingan, then Rinnegan. he does not state EMS. i told u before we have already seen sasuke's final susanoo. sasuke finally completes susanoo against kakashi and this was still the same susanoo he used against zetsu (it looks a little different and now has amaterasu coating but still the same), Sasuke will not get PS through EMS alone. and like i said before that sasuke's progress will maybe reveal the origin of PS.

[Encon Uchiha]

sigh... really now? then let me tell you something EMS is the same as MS, you just don't go blind now. when obito states the progression of the eyes, he says it in this order Sharingan, Mangekyou Sharingan, then Rinnegan. he does not state EMS. i told u before we have already seen sasuke's final susanoo. sasuke finally completes susanoo against kakashi and this was still the same susanoo he used against zetsu (it looks a little different and now has amaterasu coating but still the same), Sasuke will not get PS through EMS alone. and like i said before that sasuke's progress will maybe reveal the origin of PS.

Perfect Susanoo can be attained through years of training Susanoo. Madara had Susanoo for 70+ years. Sasukes had it for like 2 months lol,of course he cant use it yet. It has nothing to do with Rinnegan. I wonder why people dont quote my post above that states exactly why it cant be from Rinnegan...wussiess dont have a comeback

[Namikaze Haru]

Perfect Susanoo can be attained through years of training Susanoo. Madara had Susanoo for 70+ years. Sasukes had it for like 2 months lol,of course he cant use it yet. It has nothing to do with Rinnegan. I wonder why people dont quote my post above that states exactly why it cant be from Rinnegan...wussiess dont have a comeback

PS attained through years of training, thats is laughable. because according to many people sasuke will gain PS, and i doubt we have years left in naruto. and no madara did not have susanoo for 70+ years because he gave his eyes away and originally he did not gain EMS until he was around 20-30. nothing to do with rinnegan? like i said both PS and Rinnegan are gained by an EMS user who has obtained senju DNA. i did not read ur earlier post by judging from this post i think i know why people are not quoting...

[KidGamer65]

sigh... really now? then let me tell you something EMS is the same as MS, you just don't go blind now. when obito states the progression of the eyes, he says it in this order Sharingan, Mangekyou Sharingan, then Rinnegan. he does not state EMS. i told u before we have already seen sasuke's final susanoo. sasuke finally completes susanoo against kakashi and this was still the same susanoo he used against zetsu (it looks a little different and now has amaterasu coating but still the same), Sasuke will not get PS through EMS alone. and like i said before that sasuke's progress will maybe reveal the origin of PS.

EMS is a fusion of 2 MS it is not the same as MS, Obito never mentioned anything about MS going to Rinnegan since you need EMS for Rinnegan.

It goes Sharingan to MS to EMS to Rinnegan, PS is an EMS technique and that is all you need to use it, show some evidence that hasn't been countered already that supports your claim.

Sasuke's Susanoo evolves through usage..

[saw2097]

Madara made it very clear he had used it against Hashirama long before he even implanted Senju DNA in himself. Perfect Susanoo is just the final stage of Susanoo, purely EMS.

[thegame]

*sigh*

^^

[Beetle]

Rinnegan summons Gedo Mazo. Let's see Perfect Susanoo versus the Juubi.

[Anonwisdom]

Nope. He activated it to use Preta path or he would be destroyed by RasenShuriken. and there would be no reason to go back to EMS since he already got his Rinnegan active. You fail.

No one has said that. You double fail.

You said in your own words "sasuke's perfect susanoo" "itachi's perfect susanoo" then posted pictures of their susanoos (both of which a CLEARLY. Not ps) as proof, the only failure here is you and your dismissed.

[Anonwisdom]

Itachi and Sasuke have Complete Susano'o, not Perfect.

So until shown otherwise, we can safely assume Perfect Susano'o is Rinnegan Tech.

In case you forgot lol

[apple pie of doom]

Alright, lets just put this simple.
Madara awakened the rinnegan shortly before he died.
He was an old man back then.

Now, if by what you're saying, perfect Susanoo is awakened along with rinnegan, then how could he claim no one ever lived to tell the tale of his PS after bringing it out if he awakened it when he was too old to do anything anyway?

Its an EMS technique.
Yes EMS is superior to the rinnegan version we've seen Nagato use, hell, even normal MS is superior to the rinnegan we've seen Nagato use ( meaning without MS abilities ).
No EMS is not superior to the one Madara uses ( it backs his EMS up as a support, I'm sure it was the same for the rikudo. )

Nagato's rinnegan was lacking its full potential due to it being an implant.
Madara's rinnegan however is at its full potential.

[Amelius]

He didn't need too? So your telling me he knew what Naruto was capable of so he held back on purpose? Or he merely got lucky that his COMPLETE Susano'o tanked Naruto's attack?

Of course he held back..... He is freaking Madara... why would he seriously at that moment take Naruto seriously? now that doesnt mean he is going to take a gaint rasengan to the face either!

when we first saw madaras Susanno; he successfully negated Naruto attacks. now when he used the rinnegan for the first time, it was because he had been pulled out of susanno and thus had no other option but to absorb the attack, it didnt mean he thought susanno wouldnt take the attack... he was not able to use susanno.... Now for all we know, once he activated the rinnegan going back to other sharingan would not be possible, but the ability to use EMS abilities are still accessable. we have yet to see him turn off rinnegan once he turned it on the first time, for all we know he cant! This also doesnt not confirm that PS is strickly rinnegan, there is no definitive proof! But seeing as all the other versions derive from MS, it can be concluded PS is derived from the EMS!

[Amelius]

explain to me how he knew so much about the rinnegan without using it. how did he know what the rinne tensei jutsu is, he has shown to be the first one to use gedo, he was shown to use the preta path, he was shown to use the meteors on much bigger scale than nagato himself that shows he is quite good with the rinnegan. i did not say he was a master but he was a good user and so far from his use and knowledge of the rinnegan it can be easily understood. he had time its not like he got the rinnegan and fell to the ground and died, he had some time to come up with a tsuki no me plan etc, and give it to nagato and lived until obito's time through the mazo itself. in that time he could have learned more about the rinnegan and he has clearly shown he is very knowledgeable saying he is a noob with the rinnegan is absurd. he is a pretty adept user atleast from what he has shown with the rinnegan.

The Uchiha Tablet is how he knew so much about the rinnegan and how it works! What im saying is how did he master a dojutsu, when for the most part, Madara was a walking corpse after activating the rinnegan. He didnt have the strength to spend time training. Knowing how to use something and being able to use it are not the same. He had the knowledge, but not the strength. How would he train with the rinnegan, when he gave his eyes to Nagato, and he had to do it shortly after he aquired them.


we also honestly have no clue if the meteor attack came from Rinnegan... Its completely different from Chibaku Tensei and It needed to use his susanno to help use the jutsu. All he did was pull the rock from orbit. If it was a rinnegan based, he wouldnt have needed susannos help!

[sazhin]

nah! jiraya admitted rinnegan is d strongest,and i dont tink anyone cud du wat pain did with his rinnegan,seriously ems might be cool and strong with the ability to use susaanoos witout suffering blindness...bt many hve admited rinnegan is the so6p eyes...creater of all ninjutsu...no further argument required

[linxekim]

we also honestly have no clue if the meteor attack came from Rinnegan... Its completely different from Chibaku Tensei and It needed to use his susanno to help use the jutsu. All he did was pull the rock from orbit. If it was a rinnegan based, he wouldnt have needed susannos help!

Umm.....

Nagato using a meteor jutsu...
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/549/9

Madara using a more powerful meteor jutsu via Susanoo (three hand signs are needed) ...
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v59/c560/16.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v59/c560/17.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v59/c561/4.html

[linxekim]

we also honestly have no clue if the meteor attack came from Rinnegan... Its completely different from Chibaku Tensei and It needed to use his susanno to help use the jutsu. All he did was pull the rock from orbit. If it was a rinnegan based, he wouldnt have needed susannos help!

Umm.....

Nagato using a meteor jutsu...
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/549/9

Madara using a more powerful meteor jutsu via Susanoo (three hand signs are needed) ...
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v59/c560/16.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v59/c560/17.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v59/c561/4.html

It is safe to say by using Susanoo with rinnegan, it allows you to use a more power technique. Hence the more powerful meteorite jutsu (which needed Susanoo for the three hand signs). Seeing the proof above, Madara uses EMS Susanoo and enhances it's power with the rinnegan making it "perfect" (showing him using the rinnegan when performing this).*

YOU NEED EMS SUSANOO WITH THE RINNEGAN TO OBTAIN PERFECT SUSANOO...

*Sigh*, you guys are idiots...

[Kirikoe]

no ... madara stated that he used PS in his battle against hashirama .... and in his battle with hashirama he never had the rinnegan only EMS now i dont think PS is a part of EMS power i just think susano evolves the more its used .... as u see with sasuke his susano grew more and more each time he used it ...... and i think PS is the pinacle of susano's evolution ... however by the time u get to that point with a normal MS ur more than likely to have gone blind ....

[PainTotheEarth]

No? Obito doesn't have EMS Only person who had both is Madara, and Nagato doesn't have EMS either. The only thing that was said is that you need Uchiha and Senju DNA to have Rinnegan

i mean no sharingan o rinnegan.. because yo can have senju DNA sure... but just like hashirama no rinnegan because no sharingan..
nagaot got it from madara and obito from nagato but if they both didnt take it. nagato had NEVER had it.. then only obito needs EMS to rinnegan

[PainTotheEarth]

Read my post above. Susanoo is from Mangekyou ,not Rinnegan, if it was a Rinnegan technique, Nagato the best user of Rinnegan would've used it.

Madara's is Perfect (chakra stabilized). Itachi's and Sasuke's are Perfect unstabilized .

Im not replying to any more comments until someone can respond with a logical explanation why they think Rinnegan is EMS tech.

how can you see when someone replays

[PainTotheEarth]

GO TO NARUTO WIKI .COM IT SAYS THAT ITS IN HIS EMS FINALS SUSANO STABILIZE so GTFO