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  1. #1
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    So, battle of long whitish hair vs long darkish hair. Also they both use chakra constructs of INSANE power, and fight on the level of Bijuu.

    THIRD RAIKAGE:


    Capable of cutting the Hachibi to SHREDS, it seems reasonable that he can damage even Perfect Susanoo.

    Defense said to be impenetrable to anything but the MOST powerful Fuuton-jutsu (not Madara's strong suit). Body which seems to be made of ACTUAL IRON.

    Speed of the highest order. Lightning-fast, if you'll allow me the term.

    Endurance like no other. 10,000 men were needed to bring him down.

    MADARA UCHIHA:


    His Katon is insane, he has Tsukuyomi along with a host of other genjutsu (probably), Amaterasu, and, of course, Susano'o. Perfect Susano'o. Need more be said?

    Again. Perfect Susano'o. Along with Sharingan precog. Defense of the highest calibre.

    Madara has countered BM Naruto. His speed is undeniable.

    Endurance is probably exceptional (what about this guy isn't?) but can't quite be said to challenge the Raikage's.



    Who will WIN in this CLASH OF TITANS?

    EDIT: It's kinda funny how they're like negative images of each other in every way.

    White hair - Black hair
    Beard - Beardless
    Dark skin - Pale skin
    Muscular - (Comparatively) Slender
    Rough features - Elegant features
    Badass scars - Badass LACK of scars
    White vest - (Non-canon) Black armor
     
         
    Last edited by Piratefish; 11-21-2012 at 02:17 PM.

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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Raikage solo's.. Very high diff.

    Madara in general is overrated, but this is only EMS.

    I can debate with anyone why 3rd Raikage>EMS Madara.
     
         

  3. #3
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by DrProof View Post
    Raikage solo's.. Very high diff.

    Madara in general is overrated, but this is only EMS.

    I can debate with anyone why 3rd Raikage>EMS Madara.
    I don't disagree. Feel free to add more reasoning to your argument while I gather some stuff on Jiraiya.
     
         

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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    I don't disagree. Feel free to add more reasoning to your argument while I gather some stuff on Jiraiya.
    I need to do the same with Orochimaru, but i'll search around.
     
         

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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    madara
     
         

  6. #6
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by USSJ Future Trunks View Post
    PS is seerely damaging and i also doubt that madara would take him as that much of a threat at first. he will probably try beating him down with small susano then realise hes getting nowhere. then 3rd raikages hell stab cuts past susano and impales him
    We can't assume that EMS Madara will act as carelessly as the Edo version; I agree that the Sandaime might well win, but through carelessness on Madara's part? Probably not.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobisacoolguy View Post
    madara
    Why?
     
         

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    Senior Member TheSages456's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    madara soloed 5 kages with low diff. madara wins.

    /thread
     
         

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    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSages456 View Post
    madara soloed 5 kages with low diff. madara wins.

    /thread
    Are we talking about Edo Madara? ARE WE?

    Here's a comment about as helpful as yours:

    Third Raikage soloed 10,000 ninja high diff. RAIKAGE RUNS CIRCLES AROUND MADARA UNTIL MADARA COLLAPSES FROM EXHAUSTION.



    Oddly enough, that seems like it COULD be possible. I mean, the psychological effect of having someone watching your every move, ready to pounce at the slightest opening, for THREE DAYS, has to be devastating. Especially if you can't follow them with your eyes. Can't see them at all, really, but CAN HEAR THEM.
     
         

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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    Are we talking about Edo Madara? ARE WE?

    Here's a comment about as helpful as yours:

    Third Raikage soloed 10,000 ninja high diff. RAIKAGE RUNS CIRCLES AROUND MADARA UNTIL MADARA COLLAPSES FROM EXHAUSTION.



    Oddly enough, that seems like it COULD be possible. I mean, the psychological effect of having someone watching your every move, ready to pounce at the slightest opening, for THREE DAYS, has to be devastating. Especially if you can't follow them with your eyes. Can't see them at all, really, but CAN HEAR THEM.
    Most people seem to think that Living madara also has Unlimited chakra and that Perfect susanoo takes very miniscule ammount of chakra.
    Something that Size must take a hell of alot of chakra to sustain.

    Even So, 3rd raikages only chance of winning if defeating Madara befor he uses PS, Since madara wouldn't see him as a threat and would not use his full power right away, This leave a small window for the raikage.
    If he cannot kill him befor Ps then he will most likely lose.
     
         

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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    EMS Madara wins mid difficulty IMO. He hasn't shown us using haxed eye techs such as amaterasu though so it won't be an easy battle for him and the only thing he has in his arsenal that can damage the 3rd Raikage is PS.

    The PS slices things on an extremely high level compared to most attacks in the manga. I think the 3rd Raikage is very resistant to blunt force type attacks but powerful piercing attacks such as hell stab and or powerful slicing jutsus such as Wind Cast Net have shown to be able to hurt him. I think the PS sword slash is on a whole other level compared to those two jutsus I listed.

    What is clear is that without PS, Madara doesn't have much chances since he has nothing (maybe amaterasu) to put down the Third. EMS Madara also will not have infinite chakra nor will he have Hashirama's cells so I don't think he can maintain it for more than five minutes.

    Once the PS comes to play, 3rd Raikage's only chances are in outlasting it by dodging critical hits and tanking the more minor ones for as long as possible but I don't think he can pull it off since the PS sword slash has a large area of effect and can slice a mountain with ease.
     
         

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    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Exaar View Post
    Most people seem to think that Living madara also has Unlimited chakra and that Perfect susanoo takes very miniscule ammount of chakra.
    Something that Size must take a hell of alot of chakra to sustain.

    Even So, 3rd raikages only chance of winning if defeating Madara befor he uses PS, Since madara wouldn't see him as a threat and would not use his full power right away, This leave a small window for the raikage.
    If he cannot kill him befor Ps then he will most likely lose.
    When PS is activated, he could just skedaddle out of range (REALLY ****ING FAR, in other words) and commence bombardment with Black Lightning. Either way, PS vastly increases the Third's chance of winning through endurance, and I'm also not sure if Perfect Susano'o could withstand the Hell Stab, at least not for long. Madara DID say Perfect Susano'o was comparable only to the Bijuu, and Hell Stab > Bijuu.
     
         

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    Senior Member Exaar's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    When PS is activated, he could just skedaddle out of range (REALLY ****ING FAR, in other words) and commence bombardment with Black Lightning. Either way, PS vastly increases the Third's chance of winning through endurance, and I'm also not sure if Perfect Susano'o could withstand the Hell Stab, at least not for long. Madara DID say Perfect Susano'o was comparable only to the Bijuu, and Hell Stab > Bijuu.
    We don't really know the strengths of Black Lightning, How it differs from the normal Chakra nature lightning (besides colour), nor how powerful it was in the 3rds hands.

    Plus he doesn't know the strength of Ps so he would have no reason to run, I doubt he would run anyways.
    The Logic is sound that since Ps = Bijuu and technically 3rd raikage is somehwat equal to the hachibi since he tied with it.

    Depends on if he can get close enough to use it or not. Maybe cut of a Foot/Leg to unbalance it.
     
         

  13. #13
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Exaar View Post
    We don't really know the strengths of Black Lightning, How it differs from the normal Chakra nature lightning (besides colour), nor how powerful it was in the 3rds hands.

    Plus he doesn't know the strength of Ps so he would have no reason to run, I doubt he would run anyways.
    The Logic is sound that since Ps = Bijuu and technically 3rd raikage is somehwat equal to the hachibi since he tied with it.

    Depends on if he can get close enough to use it or not. Maybe cut of a Foot/Leg to unbalance it.
    It could really go either way, this battle. It looks like a single clean strike from either of the two would be enough to win this.

    The Third is more mobile and smaller, but he also has more to cut through. I'm leaning towards him, but not decisively.
     
         

  14. #14
    ☣Death Is Inevitable☣ SasukeCurse's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Madara has hashiramas genes he can take alot of brutal physical attacks which is what Raikages are known for it would be hell of a fight not really sure who would take it im not gunna disagree with anyones opinion but for me i think Madara would win
     
         

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    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by SasukeCurse View Post
    Madara has hashiramas genes he can take alot of brutal physical attacks which is what Raikages are known for it would be hell of a fight not really sure who would take it im not gunna disagree with anyones opinion but for me i think Madara would win
    How would it your opinion change if Madara DIDN'T have Hashirama's genes, as this is the Maddy who fought Hashy at the VotE and thus completely Mokuton-free.
     
         

  16. #16
    ☣Death Is Inevitable☣ SasukeCurse's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    How would it your opinion change if Madara DIDN'T have Hashirama's genes, as this is the Maddy who fought Hashy at the VotE and thus completely Mokuton-free.
    If ur asking me if Madara were to still fight without Mokuton aka wood release and still beat Sandaime straight up 1 v 1 then yes i do feel as Madara could still win, reason for why he could

    1. He is a legendary shinobi who led the Uchiha clan
    2. Uses Amaterasu, Shariangan, Ems, Susano'o tsukuyomi and ontop of all that Rinnegan
    3. Has over easily 20+ jutsu's alot of them from manga
    4. He's Survived every encounter and battle with Hashirama who was the strongest shinobi in there time, if he can survive against him he can survive and beat Sandaime.
    5. ability to control the nine tail fox using his dojutsu.
     
         

  17. #17
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by SasukeCurse View Post
    If ur asking me if Madara were to still fight without Mokuton aka wood release and still beat Sandaime straight up 1 v 1 then yes i do feel as Madara could still win, reason for why he could

    1. He is a legendary shinobi who led the Uchiha clan
    2. Uses Amaterasu, Shariangan, Ems, Susano'o tsukuyomi and ontop of all that Rinnegan
    3. Has over easily 20+ jutsu's alot of them from manga
    4. He's Survived every encounter and battle with Hashirama who was the strongest shinobi in there time, if he can survive against him he can survive and beat Sandaime.
    5. ability to control the nine tail fox using his dojutsu.
    How does he compare in combat ability? Controlling the Kyuubi, surviving Hashirama, they are praiseworthy achivements, but what does he have that can hit, AND damage, the Raikage? How long until he's Hell Stabbed? Can he kill the Raikage before then?

    Please attempt to provide ability analyses and explanations, not feats or feelings.
     
         

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    Senior Member TheSages456's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    Are we talking about Edo Madara? ARE WE?

    Here's a comment about as helpful as yours:

    Third Raikage soloed 10,000 ninja high diff. RAIKAGE RUNS CIRCLES AROUND MADARA UNTIL MADARA COLLAPSES FROM EXHAUSTION.



    Oddly enough, that seems like it COULD be possible. I mean, the psychological effect of having someone watching your every move, ready to pounce at the slightest opening, for THREE DAYS, has to be devastating. Especially if you can't follow them with your eyes. Can't see them at all, really, but CAN HEAR THEM.
    @bold. dafuq are you babbling about?

    if you think that the 3rd raikage can run the distance of a mountain range in a few seconds then i have nothing to say to you.
     
         

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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    3rd raikage destroys EMS madara..
     
         

  20. #20
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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Depends if 3rd Raikage can kill Madara before he uses PS, Madara does underestimate his enemies alot, IMO if Madara doesn't use PS he loses High diff, if he does he wins mid-high diff.
     
         

  21. #21
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSages456 View Post
    @bold. dafuq are you babbling about?

    if you think that the 3rd raikage can run the distance of a mountain range in a few seconds then i have nothing to say to you.
    I was answering a stupid, pointless comment with a slightly less stupid, pointless comment. To illustrate JUST how stupid and pointless the first comment was.

    Please, tell me how Perfect Susano'o hits the Third even with the shockwave, which wouldn't harm the Raikage anyway. Raikage tanks Bijuudama, Bijuudama > Mountains. The actual Sword hitting might change the outcome, but assuming that Madara can end the battle without actually getting a clean hit with his blade is idiotic.

    How does the Third NOT run across mountain ranges, anyway? His speed impresses KM Naruto to the point where he acknowledges he CAN'T compete:

    Here seen taking out dozens of shinobi in an instant. That means choosing targets, landing attacks, changing directions, choosing NEW targets... DOZENS. INSTANTLY.

    If he's running flat out, WHY would you believe he WOULDN'T outpace Perfect Susano'o's Sword?

    Quote Originally Posted by Izuna Kakashi Senju View Post
    Depends if 3rd Raikage can kill Madara before he uses PS, Madara does underestimate his enemies alot, IMO if Madara doesn't use PS he loses High diff, if he does he wins mid-high diff.
    EDO Madara does, EMS would be a lot more cautious. One does not survive the pre-Village era as the SECOND STRONGEST in the WORLD by acting like he did against the Kages. He wanted them to know despair, not take them out efficiently.

    Why would PS end the battle in Madara's favour? The Third TANKS Bijuudama and SHREDS the Hachibi:
     
         
    Last edited by Piratefish; 11-22-2012 at 11:06 PM.

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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    You can't be serious when putting the third Raikage in a fight with Madara. Raikage is beating the EMS with perfect Susanoo? Versus threads today are losing more and more quality.
     
         

  23. #23
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    U
    Quote Originally Posted by Strict View Post
    You can't be serious when putting the third Raikage in a fight with Madara. Raikage is beating the EMS with perfect Susanoo? Versus threads today are losing more and more quality.
    Oh, Strict. Don't let your righteous indignation at the very thought of Madara being compared with the Sandaime get in the way of explaining WHY you believe so.

    EMS Madara lost against a man capable of making Bijuu weaker and defeating them in such a state, while the Sandaime was known as the ONLY man to ever directly compete with a Bijuu and not lose drastically. They are of comparable level.
     
         

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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post

    Oh, Strict. Don't let your righteous indignation at the very thought of Madara being compared with the Sandaime get in the way of explaining WHY you believe so.

    EMS Madara lost against a man capable of making Bijuu weaker and defeating them in such a state, while the Sandaime was known as the ONLY man to ever directly compete with a Bijuu and not lose drastically. They are of comparable level.
    There is no need to go by ABC logic. Kakuzu and Hidan also had to capture a Biju at its full form and managed it quite easily. If Dodai, without any support, could keep up with Sandaimes speed, don't you think Madara with the Sharingans great insight could as well? One of Madaras Genjutsu left Raikage A paralyzed and unable to move [1][2]. I would be glad to see Sandaime Raikages possibility to counter this. You may stick on facts instead of coming up with subjective ideas. I also want so see the Sandaime countering Amaterasu, which arises wherever the Sharingan is aiming for and burns until the target is burnt to ashes. Once A touched Amaterasu with his hand while even being in his Raiton armor, he had to cut his arm - Amaterasu is burning its target rapidly, so it did when burning the stomach of Jiraiyas summoning instantly and burning even huge fire itself. Once the Sandaimes body is burning, he loses all hope. Coming up with Sandaime being able to dodge Amaterasu is unnecessary, Sandaimes son, A, is much faster than his father and had already in on the first level of his Raiton armor enough speed so no one could react at, Sasuke with his Sharingan could. When activating the MS, A purposely maximized his speed, in order to be able to avoid the Sharingans sight and thus Amaterasu - since even Dodai reacted on Sandaimes speed, Madara will also have no problems. And though Madara didn't show the usage of Amaterasu, the databook yet says, that Susanoo can only be archived when you mastered both, Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu, what is fact up to the point it was proven otherwise. Last but not least, we have Susanoo, a Samurai which is ultimately strong, fast and protects Madara from any attack - I am talking about the usual Susanoo but not the perfect one. Susanoo has shown an amazing durability when being able to withstand As Raiga Bomb with only the ribcage [3][4]. You see how amazing the defense of the even former stages of Susanoo is, not to mention when it is at stage 4, a complete skeleton covered in muscles and wearing an armor. The Raikages body is hyped to be as hard as steel, yet Susanoo is able to smash extremely thick walls [5] and cut Kimimaros bones, which were supposed to be harder than steel and in Kabutos scenario, were even reinforced with Senchakra [6] and this only in a skeleton form. An extremely strong, huge and fast warrior who is backed up with the Sharingans insight, which is able to follow all of the Sandaimes movements. The perfect Susanoo won't even be needed.

    So you may come up with facts next time. You can't be taken serious.
     
         
    Last edited by Strict; 11-23-2012 at 04:46 PM.

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    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara vs. Sandaime Raikage

    Quote Originally Posted by Strict View Post
    There is no need to go by ABC logic. Kakuzu and Hidan also had to capture a Biju at its full form and managed it quite easily.
    A jinchuuriki and a Bijuu are very different things. For example, one of the two has a vulnerable center which can be affected by THIS:


    Quote Originally Posted by Strict View Post
    If Dodai, without any support, could keep up with Sandaimes speed, don't you think Madara with the Sharingans great insight could as well?
    I am convinced KNOWING an opponent so well you're able to predict their STRATEGY and TRAIN OF THOUGHT trump predicting their ACTIONS with the Sharingan. Maybe that's just me. Dodai knows the Raikage's moves, strategy and behaviour-patterns to the point he can make strategies to pre-empt them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strict View Post
    One of Madaras Genjutsu left Raikage A paralyzed and unable to move [1][2]. I would be glad to see Sandaime Raikages possibility to counter this.
    Regarding the Sandaime being placed under an illusion, yes, it's possible and it WOULD be match-ending. But this is a bad example for you: A was first immobilized due to Complete Susano'o (the Third would have cut himself out with ease) and seemed to be as exhausted as the rest of the Kages at that point. The Raikage we're talking about would require FAR more effort to even BEGIN to falter from tiredness. Madara would sooner be the one to get sloppy.

    And this does imply that locking gazes while the Raikage is MOVING is beyond Madara: he had to immobilize his target first. And achieving mutual eye-contact while your opponent is little more than a BLUR to you can't be easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strict View Post
    You may stick on facts instead of coming up with subjective ideas. I also want so see the Sandaime countering Amaterasu, which arises wherever the Sharingan is aiming for and burns until the target is burnt to ashes. Once A touched Amaterasu with his hand while even being in his Raiton armor, he had to cut his arm - Amaterasu is burning its target rapidly, so it did when burning the stomach of Jiraiyas summoning instantly and burning even huge fire itself. Once the Sandaimes body is burning, he loses all hope.
    Madara seems to steer clear from Amaterasu, but lets assume he's already HIT the Sandaime, which is NOT a given. If it's a body part that can be safetly cut off (an arm) it would be cut off and the Raikage would just keep fighting. If it's not (leg, torso) he'd keep fighting without pause, and could even (possibly) use it to enhance his attacks (fire/lightning combo) or force Madara to deactivate it (spreading the otherwise unquenchable flames on his opponent's defensive construct). If he's hit in a lethal/crippling area (face), he'd be pretty much dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strict View Post
    Coming up with Sandaime being able to dodge Amaterasu is unnecessary, Sandaimes son, A, is much faster than his father and had already in on the first level of his Raiton armor enough speed so no one could react at, Sasuke with his Sharingan could. When activating the MS, A purposely maximized his speed, in order to be able to avoid the Sharingans sight and thus Amaterasu - since even Dodai reacted on Sandaimes speed, Madara will also have no problems.
    I don't understand why people think A is faster than his father, if anything shouldn't it be the other way 'round?



    Here's Naruto being SHOCKED INTO DISBELIEF that the Third is even HUMAN by the Raikages swift method of taking out trash. Naruto has literally JUST NOW fought the Fourth, yet he decides that KM would be completely ineffective against the Third.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strict View Post
    And though Madara didn't show the usage of Amaterasu, the databook yet says, that Susanoo can only be archived when you mastered both, Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu, what is fact up to the point it was proven otherwise. Last but not least, we have Susanoo, a Samurai which is ultimately strong, fast and protects Madara from any attack - I am talking about the usual Susanoo but not the perfect one. Susanoo has shown an amazing durability when being able to withstand As Raiga Bomb with only the ribcage [3][4]. You see how amazing the defense of the even former stages of Susanoo is, not to mention when it is at stage 4, a complete skeleton covered in muscles and wearing an armor.
    I am quite aware that Madara posesses Amaterasu.

    Unless you believe Perfect Susano'o VASTLY superior defensively to the Hachibi's skin (Madara says PS are comparable to Bijuu) then the Sandaime can pierce through pretty easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strict View Post
    The Raikages body is hyped to be as hard as steel, yet Susanoo is able to smash extremely thick walls [5] and cut Kimimaros bones, which were supposed to be harder than steel and in Kabutos scenario, were even reinforced with Senchakra [6] and this only in a skeleton form. An extremely strong, huge and fast warrior who is backed up with the Sharingans insight, which is able to follow all of the Sandaimes movements. The perfect Susanoo won't even be needed.
    Anything less than Perfect Susano'o is not going to cut it. Susano'o's speed is not comparable to that of the Raikage, and he has tanked Bijudamae before:

    I don't believe anything less than a Perfect Susano'o can hurt him, and even that is not certain. Hell Stab is the only thing CONFIRMED to be able to, and Hell Stab cuts through Bijuu like butter. That said, I believe PS CAN hurt him, but only through a direct hit with the actual sword.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strict View Post
    So you may come up with facts next time. You can't be taken serious.
    Don't worry, I brought the facts. Are you happy now?

    You yourself would benefit quite a bit from looking at other possible explanations for ANY scenario than simply "MADARA STOMPS EVERYTHING!" I find quite easy counters for any of your arguments, could it be that you simply don't BOTHER even CONSIDERING that Madara's attacks could fail, or that any of his opponents attacks can land?

    NOT a good debating strategy, mate.
     
         

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