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  1. #61
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Turson View Post
    Considering how that battle went... nope he didnt show enough to beat them.
    Considering he won the battle at the cost of his life. Yeah keep ignoring facts just like the other guy i'm responding too.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    How? You didn't show how he is Top 10..how does he beat any of the 10 people (minus Hashirama since he is the 11th) in that list.

    I'm waiting for the proof, otherwise you're just another common fanboy.
    The manga clearly states he is the strongest of all hokages meaning hashirama, tobirama, and minato since it was stated after minato's time. By the way, your list shows hashirama as number one not 11. So your number one immediately lost along with minato by pure facts.
     
         

  2. #62
    Senior Member Turson's Avatar
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    Considering he won the battle at the cost of his life. Yeah keep ignoring facts just like the other guy i'm responding too.
    Orochimaru himself said that Kages were playing with him. Thats the fact.
     
         

  3. #63
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    Considering he won the battle at the cost of his life. Yeah keep ignoring facts just like the other guy i'm responding too.



    The manga clearly states he is the strongest of all hokages meaning hashirama, tobirama, and minato since it was stated after minato's time. By the way, your list shows hashirama as number one not 11. So your number one immediately lost along with minato by pure facts.
    In his prime he was said to be the strongest Hokage..this is Old Hiruzen.

    Learn to read, At the top of my list it says "NOT IN ORDER"
     
         

  4. #64
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    Jutsu's don't make a shinobi strong. Manga fact even jiraiya stated that the amount of jutsu's don't state strength.



    Its old hiruzen and he easily makes top ten trashing hashirama and tobirama in their complete forms and prime.

    Yah jiraiya stated that but he is dead because doesnt had enaugh strenght.
     
         

  5. #65
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Turson View Post
    Orochimaru himself said that Kages were playing with him. Thats the fact.
    Another fanboy who took what orochimaru said out of context. The kages were toying with him inside the genjutsu. When you quote a character make sure you understand the situation and what's going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    In his prime he was said to be the strongest Hokage..this is Old Hiruzen.

    Learn to read, At the top of my list it says "NOT IN ORDER"
    So you posted a top 11 and didn't put it in order..yeah intelligence isn't your forte. By the way, I already said this prior but hiruzen was stated to be the strongest of all after minato's was hokage meaning he was superior. Who needs to learn to read again? Silly fanboy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itachi8179 View Post
    Yah jiraiya stated that but he is dead because doesnt had enaugh strenght.
    Actually pain stated he died because he didn't have enough intelligence.
     
         

  6. #66
    Senior Member Turson's Avatar
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    Another fanboy who took what orochimaru said out of context. The kages were toying with him inside the genjutsu. When you quote a character make sure you understand the situation and what's going on.
    Thats what Im talking about.
     
         

  7. #67
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Turson View Post
    Thats what Im talking about.
    Exactly my point so it was only toying within the genjutsu not the entire fight.
     
         

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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    Another fanboy who took what orochimaru said out of context. The kages were toying with him inside the genjutsu. When you quote a character make sure you understand the situation and what's going on.



    So you posted a top 11 and didn't put it in order..yeah intelligence isn't your forte. By the way, I already said this prior but hiruzen was stated to be the strongest of all after minato's was hokage meaning he was superior. Who needs to learn to read again? Silly fanboy.
    What a retard, that isn't a Top 11, that is a list of people Old Hiruzen can't beat..Learn how to read.

    Prime Hiruzen was said to be the strongest Hokage, this is Old Hiruzen, so no he is not stronger than Minato.

    Old Hiruzen was only stated to have been stronger than the other 4 Kages, not all the Hokages.

    Please don't reply to my post with some stupid shit again.
     
         

  9. #69
    Senior Member Turson's Avatar
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    Exactly my point so it was only toying within the genjutsu not the entire fight.
    Aside from that, Hashirama could crush him when he catched him with Mokuton (before Enma was summoned).
     
         

  10. #70
    Senior Member Lilt's Avatar
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    According to the manga, Orochimaru was still too afraid to challenge Itachi with Edo Hokages. The simple fact is that the power-scaling hadn't been adjusted back then. But even then, the logical reason Hiruzen did so well was because Orochimaru pointblank stated that he was toying with Hiruzen, which provided an opening, and they were in a very small, enclosed space that prevented Hashirama from going nuts with his Mokuton.
     
         

  11. #71
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    What a retard, that isn't a Top 11, that is a list of people Old Hiruzen can't beat..Learn how to read.

    Prime Hiruzen was said to be the strongest Hokage, this is Old Hiruzen, so no he is not stronger than Minato.

    Old Hiruzen was only stated to have been stronger than the other 4 Kages, not all the Hokages.

    Please don't reply to my post with some stupid shit again.
    "Old Hiruzen can't beat anyone on this list..so he isn't Top 10."

    By stating he cannot beat anyone on that list you imply that those characters are on the top ten. Old hiruzen was stated to be the strongest of all. Since that statement was made after Minato had become hokage that means he is superior to minato.
     
         

  12. #72
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Lilt View Post
    According to the manga, Orochimaru was still too afraid to challenge Itachi with Edo Hokages. The simple fact is that the power-scaling hadn't been adjusted back then. But even then, the logical reason Hiruzen did so well was because Orochimaru pointblank stated that he was toying with Hiruzen, which provided an opening, and they were in a very small, enclosed space.
    Toying with hiruzen within the genjutsu. Look at the situation when the hokages are toying with hiruzen, are they using any jutsu? They are only punching and kicking him. Now look at the fight before that, we have a mix of wood release, water release, fire release, earth release, heavy taijutsu, summoning, kinjutsu, and explosions going on. Saying they were toying with him the entire fight is taking that line completely out of context.
     
         

  13. #73
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    "Old Hiruzen can't beat anyone on this list..so he isn't Top 10."

    By stating he cannot beat anyone on that list you imply that those characters are on the top ten. Old hiruzen was stated to be the strongest of all. Since that statement was made after Minato had become hokage that means he is superior to minato.
    No, I implied that since there are 10 people who can beat Hiruzen, he can't be Top 10.

    Hiruzen was known as God of Shinobi and the strongest Hokage in his Prime not in his old age.

    Orochimaru said that Hiruzen is miserable compared to his Prime.

    It is obvious they are referring to his Prime being the strongest Hokage, not him in Old Age..unless you got proof Old Hiruzen is stronger than the rest of the Hokage.
     
         

  14. #74
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    No, I implied that since there are 10 people who can beat Hiruzen, he can't be Top 10.

    Hiruzen was known as God of Shinobi and the strongest Hokage in his Prime not in his old age.

    Orochimaru said that Hiruzen is miserable compared to his Prime.

    It is obvious they are referring to his Prime being the strongest Hokage, not him in Old Age..unless you got proof Old Hiruzen is stronger than the rest of the Hokage.
    1:Where does it state he was the strongest hokage in his prime? If you can't provide a manga page then what you state is obsolete and only an opinion.

    2: "No, I implied that since there are 10 people who can beat Hiruzen, he can't be Top 10."

    Yet two of those people you listed were automatically disqualified due to the manga stating hiruzen was superior to them through word of mouth and fighting.
     
         

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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    1:Where does it state he was the strongest hokage in his prime? If you can't provide a manga page then what you state is obsolete and only an opinion.

    2: "No, I implied that since there are 10 people who can beat Hiruzen, he can't be Top 10."

    Yet two of those people you listed were automatically disqualified due to the manga stating hiruzen was superior to them through word of mouth and fighting.
    Where does it even imply he is the strongest Hokage in his Old age, when everyone comments on his prime and how in his prime he was known as the God of Shinobi, they comment on how he was miserable compared to his prime.

    Orochimaru comments on how Hiruzen, who was hailed as the God of Shinobi can't defeat old age: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-126-3/n...apter-121.html

    Here he said he was the strongest of them all, keyword is was was refers to the past, and that past is his Prime: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-99-13/n...hapter-94.html

    That's why everyone praises his prime, not his old age.

    Besides I edited my list of people who can beat Old Hiruzen and added more people.
     
         

  16. #76
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Where does it even imply he is the strongest Hokage in his Old age, when everyone comments on his prime and how in his prime he was known as the God of Shinobi, they comment on how he was miserable compared to his prime.

    Orochimaru comments on how Hiruzen, who was hailed as the God of Shinobi can't defeat old age: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-126-3/n...apter-121.html

    Here he said he was the strongest of them all, keyword is was was refers to the past, and that past is his Prime: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-99-13/n...hapter-94.html

    That's why everyone praises his prime, not his old age.

    Besides I edited my list of people who can beat Old Hiruzen and added more people.
    Well I do agree with you on the hiruzen statement from orochimaru no doubt about that. I haven't looked at your updated list but I do think that the top ten is all opinion based. Back to our debate though.

    "The third was said to be the strongest of all, such a genius that he was often called the professor."

    Now I will point out the flaws in your argument.

    1: Orochimaru stated that ten years ago he could of defeated him. At that time Minato had been dead for about 2 years(naruto was 11-12 at the start of the series). A 59 year old is definitely not in his prime. The Sannin are all the same age yet tsunade comments that kabuto was more skilled then her in her prime(in regards to medical ninjutsu) therefore the manga shows us that your prime is not old age. Yet as you infer that his prime orochimaru comments about is when he is 59. Taking that into consideration it tells us that hiruzen is the strongest hokage that ever lived. Since we have established that your prime is not old age, even out of his prime he was known to be the God of Shinobi and could of stomped orochimaru according to the manga and you have even agreed with orochimaru. Therefore it is safe to assume that whether or not he is in his prime is irrelevant to the situation at hand with the information presented. Hiruzen while out of his prime was still known as the God of shinobi, professor and admittedly by orochimaru could of stomped him easily.
     
         

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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    Well I do agree with you on the hiruzen statement from orochimaru no doubt about that. I haven't looked at your updated list but I do think that the top ten is all opinion based. Back to our debate though.

    "The third was said to be the strongest of all, such a genius that he was often called the professor."

    Now I will point out the flaws in your argument.

    1: Orochimaru stated that ten years ago he could of defeated him. At that time Minato had been dead for about 2 years(naruto was 11-12 at the start of the series). A 59 year old is definitely not in his prime. The Sannin are all the same age yet tsunade comments that kabuto was more skilled then her in her prime(in regards to medical ninjutsu) therefore the manga shows us that your prime is not old age. Yet as you infer that his prime orochimaru comments about is when he is 59. Taking that into consideration it tells us that hiruzen is the strongest hokage that ever lived. Since we have established that your prime is not old age, even out of his prime he was known to be the God of Shinobi and could of stomped orochimaru according to the manga and you have even agreed with orochimaru. Therefore it is safe to assume that whether or not he is in his prime is irrelevant to the situation at hand with the information presented. Hiruzen while out of his prime was still known as the God of shinobi, professor and admittedly by orochimaru could of stomped him easily.
    Orochimaru might have said Hiruzen could have defeated him 10 years ago, but that doesn't mean that he was referring to him being the God of Shinobi 10 yrs ago. Besides, his wiki states that he was the strongest Hokage in his prime, and they give a citation to where they got the info from (First Databook) so you can't say it isn't legit.

    Enma states he is miserable compared to his Prime, when he was known as the God of Shinobi.
     
         

  18. #78
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Orochimaru might have said Hiruzen could have defeated him 10 years ago, but that doesn't mean that he was referring to him being the God of Shinobi 10 yrs ago. Besides, his wiki states that he was the strongest Hokage in his prime, and they give a citation to where they got the info from (First Databook) so you can't say it isn't legit.

    Enma states he is miserable compared to his Prime, when he was known as the God of Shinobi.
    1: You contracted yourself just now because you stated "when everyone comments on his prime and how in his prime he was known as the God of Shinobi"

    By stating this you imply that when orochimaru stated he was the God of shinobi and ten years ago he was in his prime he could of defeated him.

    2: The wikia states "was said to be the strongest Hokage that Konoha ever had" no where was prime in that statement. So I can say its not legit because you just lied about it. Did you think I wouldn't check?

    You can't say "was" is referring to his prime because I clearly pointed out that even out of his prime he was able to roflstomp orochimaru. So non-prime hiruzen could roflstomp orochimaru something that tsunade, jiraya, four tails naruto, and sasuke(sasuke admitted that he wouldn't of beaten oro with him in full health like he was vs hiruzen).
     
         

  19. #79
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    1: You contracted yourself just now because you stated "when everyone comments on his prime and how in his prime he was known as the God of Shinobi"

    By stating this you imply that when orochimaru stated he was the God of shinobi and ten years ago he was in his prime he could of defeated him.

    2: The wikia states "was said to be the strongest Hokage that Konoha ever had" no where was prime in that statement. So I can say its not legit because you just lied about it. Did you think I wouldn't check?

    You can't say "was" is referring to his prime because I clearly pointed out that even out of his prime he was able to roflstomp orochimaru. So non-prime hiruzen could roflstomp orochimaru something that tsunade, jiraya, four tails naruto, and sasuke(sasuke admitted that he wouldn't of beaten oro with him in full health like he was vs hiruzen).


    1.How is that a contradiction? Everyone comments on his prime, in his prime he was known as the God of Shinobi

    Orochimaru said that even he, who was hailed as the God of Shinobi can't even defeat old age, this isn't related to him stating how 10 years ago Hiruzen could have beat him. Orochimaru's two statements are unrelated.

    2.Haha....nope, http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Hiruzen_Sarutobi Go to the abilities section and read the first sentence.
    iruzen was one of the most powerful shinobi in history, so much so that he was admired as the God of Shinobi (忍の神, Shinobi no Kami) in his prime and was said to be the strongest Hokage that Konoha ever had. And they add their citations so you know where the info comes form.
     
         

  20. #80
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    1.How is that a contradiction? Everyone comments on his prime, in his prime he was known as the God of Shinobi

    Orochimaru said that even he, who was hailed as the God of Shinobi can't even defeat old age, this isn't related to him stating how 10 years ago Hiruzen could have beat him. Orochimaru's two statements are unrelated.

    2.Haha....nope, http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Hiruzen_Sarutobi Go to the abilities section and read the first sentence.
    iruzen was one of the most powerful shinobi in history, so much so that he was admired as the God of Shinobi (忍の神, Shinobi no Kami) in his prime and was said to be the strongest Hokage that Konoha ever had. And they add their citations so you know where the info comes form.
    1: You got me on number 1. Not that I was deceiving you but I misunderstood the two statements.

    2: I believe were having a misunderstanding. They say God of Shinobi in his prime but they don't say he was the strongest hokage konoha ever had in his prime.
     
         

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