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  1. #76
    Senior Member Unbiased's Avatar
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Where does it even imply he is the strongest Hokage in his Old age, when everyone comments on his prime and how in his prime he was known as the God of Shinobi, they comment on how he was miserable compared to his prime.

    Orochimaru comments on how Hiruzen, who was hailed as the God of Shinobi can't defeat old age: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-126-3/n...apter-121.html

    Here he said he was the strongest of them all, keyword is was was refers to the past, and that past is his Prime: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-99-13/n...hapter-94.html

    That's why everyone praises his prime, not his old age.

    Besides I edited my list of people who can beat Old Hiruzen and added more people.
    Well I do agree with you on the hiruzen statement from orochimaru no doubt about that. I haven't looked at your updated list but I do think that the top ten is all opinion based. Back to our debate though.

    "The third was said to be the strongest of all, such a genius that he was often called the professor."

    Now I will point out the flaws in your argument.

    1: Orochimaru stated that ten years ago he could of defeated him. At that time Minato had been dead for about 2 years(naruto was 11-12 at the start of the series). A 59 year old is definitely not in his prime. The Sannin are all the same age yet tsunade comments that kabuto was more skilled then her in her prime(in regards to medical ninjutsu) therefore the manga shows us that your prime is not old age. Yet as you infer that his prime orochimaru comments about is when he is 59. Taking that into consideration it tells us that hiruzen is the strongest hokage that ever lived. Since we have established that your prime is not old age, even out of his prime he was known to be the God of Shinobi and could of stomped orochimaru according to the manga and you have even agreed with orochimaru. Therefore it is safe to assume that whether or not he is in his prime is irrelevant to the situation at hand with the information presented. Hiruzen while out of his prime was still known as the God of shinobi, professor and admittedly by orochimaru could of stomped him easily.
     
         

  2. #77
    Premium User KidGamer65's Avatar
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    Well I do agree with you on the hiruzen statement from orochimaru no doubt about that. I haven't looked at your updated list but I do think that the top ten is all opinion based. Back to our debate though.

    "The third was said to be the strongest of all, such a genius that he was often called the professor."

    Now I will point out the flaws in your argument.

    1: Orochimaru stated that ten years ago he could of defeated him. At that time Minato had been dead for about 2 years(naruto was 11-12 at the start of the series). A 59 year old is definitely not in his prime. The Sannin are all the same age yet tsunade comments that kabuto was more skilled then her in her prime(in regards to medical ninjutsu) therefore the manga shows us that your prime is not old age. Yet as you infer that his prime orochimaru comments about is when he is 59. Taking that into consideration it tells us that hiruzen is the strongest hokage that ever lived. Since we have established that your prime is not old age, even out of his prime he was known to be the God of Shinobi and could of stomped orochimaru according to the manga and you have even agreed with orochimaru. Therefore it is safe to assume that whether or not he is in his prime is irrelevant to the situation at hand with the information presented. Hiruzen while out of his prime was still known as the God of shinobi, professor and admittedly by orochimaru could of stomped him easily.
    Orochimaru might have said Hiruzen could have defeated him 10 years ago, but that doesn't mean that he was referring to him being the God of Shinobi 10 yrs ago. Besides, his wiki states that he was the strongest Hokage in his prime, and they give a citation to where they got the info from (First Databook) so you can't say it isn't legit.

    Enma states he is miserable compared to his Prime, when he was known as the God of Shinobi.
     
         

  3. #78
    Senior Member Unbiased's Avatar
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Orochimaru might have said Hiruzen could have defeated him 10 years ago, but that doesn't mean that he was referring to him being the God of Shinobi 10 yrs ago. Besides, his wiki states that he was the strongest Hokage in his prime, and they give a citation to where they got the info from (First Databook) so you can't say it isn't legit.

    Enma states he is miserable compared to his Prime, when he was known as the God of Shinobi.
    1: You contracted yourself just now because you stated "when everyone comments on his prime and how in his prime he was known as the God of Shinobi"

    By stating this you imply that when orochimaru stated he was the God of shinobi and ten years ago he was in his prime he could of defeated him.

    2: The wikia states "was said to be the strongest Hokage that Konoha ever had" no where was prime in that statement. So I can say its not legit because you just lied about it. Did you think I wouldn't check?

    You can't say "was" is referring to his prime because I clearly pointed out that even out of his prime he was able to roflstomp orochimaru. So non-prime hiruzen could roflstomp orochimaru something that tsunade, jiraya, four tails naruto, and sasuke(sasuke admitted that he wouldn't of beaten oro with him in full health like he was vs hiruzen).
     
         

  4. #79
    Premium User KidGamer65's Avatar
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    1: You contracted yourself just now because you stated "when everyone comments on his prime and how in his prime he was known as the God of Shinobi"

    By stating this you imply that when orochimaru stated he was the God of shinobi and ten years ago he was in his prime he could of defeated him.

    2: The wikia states "was said to be the strongest Hokage that Konoha ever had" no where was prime in that statement. So I can say its not legit because you just lied about it. Did you think I wouldn't check?

    You can't say "was" is referring to his prime because I clearly pointed out that even out of his prime he was able to roflstomp orochimaru. So non-prime hiruzen could roflstomp orochimaru something that tsunade, jiraya, four tails naruto, and sasuke(sasuke admitted that he wouldn't of beaten oro with him in full health like he was vs hiruzen).


    1.How is that a contradiction? Everyone comments on his prime, in his prime he was known as the God of Shinobi

    Orochimaru said that even he, who was hailed as the God of Shinobi can't even defeat old age, this isn't related to him stating how 10 years ago Hiruzen could have beat him. Orochimaru's two statements are unrelated.

    2.Haha....nope, http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Hiruzen_Sarutobi Go to the abilities section and read the first sentence.
    iruzen was one of the most powerful shinobi in history, so much so that he was admired as the God of Shinobi (忍の神, Shinobi no Kami) in his prime and was said to be the strongest Hokage that Konoha ever had. And they add their citations so you know where the info comes form.
     
         

  5. #80
    Senior Member Unbiased's Avatar
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    1.How is that a contradiction? Everyone comments on his prime, in his prime he was known as the God of Shinobi

    Orochimaru said that even he, who was hailed as the God of Shinobi can't even defeat old age, this isn't related to him stating how 10 years ago Hiruzen could have beat him. Orochimaru's two statements are unrelated.

    2.Haha....nope, http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Hiruzen_Sarutobi Go to the abilities section and read the first sentence.
    iruzen was one of the most powerful shinobi in history, so much so that he was admired as the God of Shinobi (忍の神, Shinobi no Kami) in his prime and was said to be the strongest Hokage that Konoha ever had. And they add their citations so you know where the info comes form.
    1: You got me on number 1. Not that I was deceiving you but I misunderstood the two statements.

    2: I believe were having a misunderstanding. They say God of Shinobi in his prime but they don't say he was the strongest hokage konoha ever had in his prime.
     
         

  6. #81
    Premium User KidGamer65's Avatar
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    1: You got me on number 1. Not that I was deceiving you but I misunderstood the two statements.

    2: I believe were having a misunderstanding. They say God of Shinobi in his prime but they don't say he was the strongest hokage konoha ever had in his prime.
    Oops, my bad....but it is most likely that he was the strongest in his prime.

    -Everyone praises his prime
    -He got the nickname "God of Shinobi" in his prime
    -They said he had immense chakra reserves in his prime
    -They say that his current state is pitiful compared to his prime.

    Him being able to beat Orochimaru 10 yrs ago out of his Prime doesn't make him the strongest Hokage.
     
         

  7. #82
    Senior Member Unbiased's Avatar
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    Re: Proof Hiruzen deserves top ten is not top 5

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Oops, my bad....but it is most likely that he was the strongest in his prime.

    -Everyone praises his prime
    -He got the nickname "God of Shinobi" in his prime
    -They said he had immense chakra reserves in his prime
    -They say that his current state is pitiful compared to his prime.

    Him being able to beat Orochimaru 10 yrs ago out of his Prime doesn't make him the strongest Hokage.
    I can agree with you. Your theory holds water but its not a manga fact regardless its still a good observation. I know beating orochimaru out of his prime doesn't make him the strongest hokage but it showcases that even not in his prime he was stupid powerful.

    I can see why people only think hiruzen is strong in his prime due to the hype he received, but I believe he is in the top ten in his old age. Being able to beat hashirama/tobirama and partially orochimaru is nearly impossible yet he did it(mainly because of plot reasons and the stories development) but it still happened. Point being he is no push over and I do believe all ninja's will have a difficult time fighting against him. Sure nowadays he looks weak in comparison due to the power scaling but if he was power scaled to todays levels that would be amazing. Hashirama got power scaled and its cool so hiruzens would be just as great.
     
         

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