Itachi could have killed Obito...

[Noddy]

Actually Danzu activated izanagi just before the attack hit.

You can see him weaving the signs just as the attack was about to hit.

So how did Obito overcome Amaterasu?

[SilverSlick]

Older than Madara. TROOOOOOOOOOOOOOLOLOLOLOLO!

So I guess you're admitting defeat now, right? Since you obviously can't come up with productive enough counters.

[ixc]

So I guess you're admitting defeat now, right? Since you obviously can't come up with productive enough counters.

WITH PRODUCTIVE ENOUGH COUNTERS? Dude i've come up with enough counters to your ***gish Kamui and you just can't admit that i'm right that's why i turned into TROLLSTYLE.

Are you kids really trying to win an ARGUMENT on this pathetic Base?

[Blaze Release]

Then how else did he remove the flames? And if the jutsu must be activated before the attack, as you say, why was Danzō seemingly hurt by Sasuke's Susano'o arrow before the jutsu (Izanagi) was used [1]? That page even states that wounds or death can be trolled, not 'avoided' in a sense.

Ive no idea how he got rid of amaterasu, but it DEFINITELY wasnt izanagi, it cannot be.


Ill explain to you again. Izanagi is an illusion used the caster. In this illusion every injury that the caster sustain's when the illusion ends, thats it. Nothing happens to the caster because its an illusion.

In the image you showed. Danzo activated izanagi before the arrow and when he got impaled by that was izanagi, he has used it before the arrow and that image actually explains how izanagi works.

For the briefest of moments the user casts the illusion and everything that happens in the illusion didnt happen when the illusion ends.

Ill give you two examples of what im talking about. As we all know sasuke tricked danzo with a genjutsu and make him think that he had one more eye for izanagi;



Basically when the eye closes is when the technique ends. Danzo wasnt sure about izanagi's duration and sasuke took advantage of this and make him think that the last eye was still open meaning izanagi was still activated, however that eye was closed. His last izanagi had ended. He attacked sasuke head on thinking that because the eye was still opened if he takes damage, its in izanagi therefore he trolls sasuke and kills sasuke.

But he didnt know that izanagi had ended and what was about to happen wasnt izanagi but real life.

Ill use Otbio as another example. He used izanagi before the blasts started when he grabs his mask;



If tobi had used izanagi after the technique he would be dead because its real life. Its the illusion and that only where the user of izanagi evades death.

I dont usually use wikipedia but they explain it alot better. I cannot be asked so ill take the easy way out.
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Izanagi

For tobi to have trolled amaterasu with izanagi he wouldve had to have used it before the amaterasu

[Noddy]

Alright, although I can't see why the technique would have that kind of restriction. Is it only limited to what Danzō showed? Why would Uchiha sacrifice an eye for an attack that they could see coming? Of course, i'm not suggesting that such a jutsu could be used after a person has passed away. But I see no reason why it couldn't be used to, say, recover from getting stabbed in the back; the user would be totally caught by surprise, and this seems to be a scenario more suited to the use of Izanagi, as it would turn critical injuries into nothingness. Why use Izanagi to remove a jutsu or injury you could've simply avoided in the first place - if they have time to use the handseals, why not just move out the way? Anyhow, there can't be another other way for Obito to have avoided Amaterasu. He could not have used Kamui, since the flames would move with him into his pocket dimension. Unless we're saying Obito has a method of trolling Amaterasu at will (a method outside of Izanagi) - that's actually totally fine by me.

[Blaze Release]

Alright, although I can't see why the technique would have that kind of restriction. Is it only limited to what Danzō showed? Why would Uchiha sacrifice an eye for an attack that they could see coming? Of course, i'm not suggesting that such a jutsu could be used after a person has passed away. But I see no reason why it couldn't be used to, say, recover from getting stabbed in the back; the user would be totally caught by surprise, and this seems to be a scenario more suited to the use of Izanagi, as it would turn critical injuries into nothingness. Why use Izanagi to remove a jutsu or injury you could've simply avoided in the first place - if they have time to use the handseals, why not just move out the way? Anyhow, there can't be another other way for Obito to have avoided Amaterasu. He could not have used Kamui, since the flames would move with him into his pocket dimension. Unless we're saying Obito has a method of trolling Amaterasu at will (a method outside of Izanagi) - that's actually totally fine by me.

Just go back to obito vs konan. Obito had already achieved great damage BEFORE izanagi. Even after izanagi he still had these damages which was an arm. That is because its real life and not the illusion where he achieved these damage. In the illusion and there only is where you can troll damage. Any damage that wasnt during izanagi's duration is real

As for the bold, the possibilities are endless. As the manga says



"During an important fight where uchiha were not allowed to fail izanagi was extremely useful". This could very well translate to basically casting the illusion therefore for that brief moment they are invincible if they along with their opponent inflict fata damage upon each other, they survive because its an illusion on themselves. Their opponent however dies.

The scenario where danzo tried to kill sasuke by taking the blow head on and thinking he would survive because its izanagi is a great example.

[Noddy]

Just go back to obito vs konan. Obito had already achieved great damage BEFORE izanagi. Even after izanagi he still had these damages which was an arm. That is because its real life and not the illusion where he achieved these damage. In the illusion and there only is where you can troll damage. Anyway damage that wasnt during izanagi's duration is real

As for the bold, the possibilities are endless. As the manga says



"During an important fight where uchiha were not allowed to fail izanagi was extremely useful". This could very well translate to basically casting the illusion therefore for that brief moment they are invincible if they along with their opponent inflict fata damage upon each other, they survive because its an illusion on themselves. Their opponent however dies.

The scenario where danzo tried to kill sasuke by taking the blow head on and thinking he would survive because its izanagi is a great example.

Well yeah, Izanagi is only influencing the injuries received for that set period of time - for Obito, it would've been the 'injuries' he sustained while inside the Kami no Shisha, not for those picked up beforehand. What you're saying is true, but i'm asking you if it's only restricted to these examples. It doesn't make sense for people to be using Izanagi when they can simply avoid the attack. Has the manga said that Izanagi's effectiveness is only limited to when it's activated before the injury is sustained? And you have to consider Obito's example, because if what you're saying is completely set in stone, Obito can overcome Amaterasu without Kamui and without Izanagi. That makes him even more hax.

[Blaze Release]

Well yeah, Izanagi is only influencing the injuries received for that set period of time - for Obito, it would've been the 'injuries' he sustained while inside the Kami no Shisha, not for those picked up beforehand. What you're saying is true, but i'm asking you if it's only restricted to these examples. It doesn't make sense for people to be using Izanagi when they can simply avoid the attack. Has the manga said that Izanagi's effectiveness is only limited to when it's activated before the injury is sustained? And you have to consider Obito's example, because if what you're saying is completely set in stone, Obito can overcome Amaterasu without Kamui and without Izanagi. That makes him even more hax.

Again even after tobi used izanagi, his injuries that he sustained before izanagi was there even after izanagi. Only in the illusion and there only can you evade damage.

Im not certain what tobi used to evade amaterasu, perhaps he also can put it out via his ms. However it definitely wasnt izanagi. He would have to have used it before amaterasu and when he was caught off guard like that. he clearly didnt think that such a thing could happen

[Sexy Steel]

konan put obito in a tight spot, and she had knowledge just think of what would happen if itachi had that kind of knowledge ?

obito has said he would he dead if he didn't keep a few secrets from itachi. (this is in fact the reason konan lost that fight, because she didn;t have knowlegde of inzanagi, in itachi's case i think it's the opposite, itachi doesn't know about kamui but he knows of izanagi.)

[Noddy]

Again even after tobi used izanagi, his injuries that he sustained before izanagi was there even after izanagi. Only in the illusion and there only can you evade damage.

Yeah, because Izanagi isn't for an infinite period of time. If you have an Izanagi lasting only 30 seconds then only injuries sustained in that 30 second period would be wiped. And i'm asking you.

Im not certain what tobi used to evade amaterasu, perhaps he also can put it out via his ms. However it definitely wasnt izanagi. He would have to have used it before amaterasu and when he was caught off guard like that. he clearly didnt think that such a thing could happen

Alright, it would only make things easier for him.

konan put obito in a tight spot, and she had knowledge just think of what would happen if itachi had that kind of knowledge ?

obito has said he would he dead if he didn't keep a few secrets from itachi. (this is in fact the reason konan lost that fight)

He never said he'd lose to Itachi in a fight if the latter had knowledge.

[Sexy Steel]

Yeah, because Izanagi isn't for an infinite period of time. If you have an Izanagi lasting only 30 seconds then only injuries sustained in that 30 second period would be wiped. And i'm asking you.



Alright, it would only make things easier for him.



He never said he'd lose to Itachi in a fight if the latter had knowledge.

he said he would be dead if itachi knew all about him, i know obito meant that if he had no defense for amaterasu he would be dead.

but what he refers to is that if itachi knew of obito's powers itachi would have approached obito differently, itachi just used amaterasu because he knew obito had no counters for it (at least that's what he thought because he had limited knowledge )

[Noddy]

he said he would be dead if itachi knew all about him, i know obito meant that if he had no defense for amaterasu he would be dead.

but what he refers to is that if itachi knew of obito's powers itachi would have approached obito differently, itachi just used amaterasu because he knew obito had no counters for it (at least that's what he thought because he had limited knowledge )

He said he'd have been dead 'right now' had Itachi known that he had some sort of counter to Amaterasu (and tried something else instead). That doesn't equate to 'Itachi could defeat me in the past". If you read the whole chapter then you would've seen that the entire conversation revolved around Itachi's Amaterasu transcription seal and it's plantation in Sasuke. Not that Itachi could've defeated him in the past. There wasn't even a mention of a one on one fight.

[Sexy Steel]

He said he'd have been dead 'right now' had Itachi known that he had some sort of counter to Amaterasu (and tried something else instead). If you read the whole chapter then you would've seen that the entire conversation revolved around Itachi's Amaterasu transcription seal and it's plantation in Sasuke. Not that Itachi could've defeated him in the past. There wasn't even a mention of a one on one fight.

my post had nothing to do with itachi defeating obito in the past, i just stated that things would be different if itachi has knowledge which is what obito was trying to say and i also made a reference to konan

[Blaze Release]

Yeah, because Izanagi isn't for an infinite period of time. If you have an Izanagi lasting only 30 seconds then only injuries sustained in that 30 second period would be wiped. And i'm asking you.

Thats basically it. To upload image's.

Tobi had sustained damage before izanagi here;

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/509/14

He used izanagi here;

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/510/4

When he went to get nagato's rinnegan after using genjutsu on konan to get this info he still had the injuries he had before izanagi;

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/510/16

[Noddy]

my post had nothing to do with itachi defeating obito in the past, i just stated that things would be different if itachi has knowledge which is what obito was trying to say and i also made a reference to konan

I was not only referring to your recent post, but another you had actually made earlier on in this thread, a statement which was completely fallacious in the sense that it implied Itachi could've killed Obito in a one on one fight.

[Sexy Steel]

I was not only referring to your recent post, but another you had actually made earlier on in this thread, a statement which was completely fallacious in the sense that it implied Itachi could've killed Obito in a one on one fight.

that's what i posted what i posted

i didn't quote anyone did i was simply correcting what i said. (or a change of opinion)

[Noddy]

Thats basically it. To upload image's.

Tobi had sustained damage before izanagi here;

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/509/14

He used izanagi here;

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/510/4

When he went to get nagato's rinnegan after using genjutsu on konan to get this info he still had the injuries he had before izanagi;

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/510/16

From what I understand, you're saying that Izanagi must be activated before the injury is received because that is how Danzō approached the situation. I am merely asking you if the manga has stated that Izanagi is limited to this approach only. Because from where I stand, the jutsu could infact be used the moment a critical blow has already been dealt; and it's that brief period of time which the jutsu can erase. That brief period of time in which the injury was inflicted becomes an illusion, my example being Obito vs Amaterasu. It just doesn't make sense to me that this forbidden jutsu would/could only be used for predictable scenarios. If it were so predictable, why sacrifice an eye for it? Why not do something else about it? I got the impression that Izanagi could also be used to troll the moments where Uchiha simply were not allowed to fail - moments that they could not foresee.

[TrollingSage]

Well yeah, Izanagi is only influencing the injuries received for that set period of time - for Obito, it would've been the 'injuries' he sustained while inside the Kami no Shisha, not for those picked up beforehand. What you're saying is true, but i'm asking you if it's only restricted to these examples. It doesn't make sense for people to be using Izanagi when they can simply avoid the attack. Has the manga said that Izanagi's effectiveness is only limited to when it's activated before the injury is sustained? And you have to consider Obito's example, because if what you're saying is completely set in stone, Obito can overcome Amaterasu without Kamui and without Izanagi. That makes him even more hax.

Well think about Sasuke vs Deidara. When Deidara was about to blow himself up and Sasuke could do nothing about it. Izanagi would have been useful then. Another example would be Madara's meteors or Chibaku tensei. All good examples of jutsus you can see coming but can do nothing to avoid them. Having izanagi would be useful in those scenarios.
And also don't forget the sharingan has pre cog abilties.
And about what Tobi did to the flames. Am pretty sure he simply warped it to his pocket dimension. It sounds like the obvious thing to do doesnt it?

[Noddy]

Well think about Sasuke vs Deidara. When Deidara was about to blow himself up and Sasuke could do nothing about it. Izanagi would have been useful then. Another example would be Madara's meteors or Chibaku tensei. All good examples of jutsus you can see coming but can do nothing to avoid them. Having izanagi would be useful in those scenarios.

Refer to my most recent post.

[Blaze Release]

From what I understand, you're saying that Izanagi must be activated before the injury is received because that is how Danzō approached the situation. I am merely asking you if the manga has stated that Izanagi is limited to this approach only. Because from where I stand, the jutsu could infact be used the moment a critical blow has already been dealt; and it's that brief period of time which the jutsu can erase. That brief period of time in which the injury was inflicted becomes an illusion, my example being Obito vs Amaterasu. It just doesn't make sense to me that this forbidden jutsu would/could only be used for predictable scenarios. If it were so predictable, why sacrifice an eye for it? Why not do something else about it? I got the impression that Izanagi could also be used to troll the moments where Uchiha simply were not allowed to fail - moments that they could not see coming.

Never had the manga stated that its izanagi and the first introduction to this technique was danzo using it. At the bold part. Already been dealt means that its already happened before the illusion. Its not during the illusion that this attack landed on the opponent. You are basically saying that you can evade damage by using izanagi after the damage and this is incorrect.

Tobi still got his injuries he sustained before izanagi,
Danzo's eye's that close if you class it as damage wasnt affected after izanagi. His eyes was still shut

Anyway we have drifted abit so ill leave this

[Noddy]

Nahhhh fam. Obito did it - telling you it was Izanagi. Otherwise, Obito > Amaterasu w/o Kamui & Izanagi. That is where this will be essentially left.

[Blaze Release]

Nahhhh fam. Obito did it - telling you it was Izanagi. Otherwise, Obito > Amaterasu w/o Kamui & Izanagi. That is where this will be essentially left.

It was either kamui or he could also extinguish it. So far to me it seems only those with amaterasu can extinguish the flames, however perhaps a mastered ms user can also even if they do not posses this technique. Kamui is also viable. This isnt the first time that kamui has warped ninjutsu. Kakashi has warped susano arrow, rasnegan, kage bunshin. Tobi was about to absorb konan's attack but instead slipped right through it.

[Smd]

itachi could have killed obito.

obito even said it himself.

so what is there to argue about?

haters and fanboys mad?

[xxSAGExx]

Wow. No. first off Itach made the pact with Tobi which was for Tobi to help him kill the Uchiha and leave the rest of Konoha alone and he'll join him. Tobi simply used Itachi's skills to gain tailed beasts. Tobi is a genius himself, he's the one who planned mostly everything that happened to this point. Yes he said if Itachi knew all of his secrets he would be dead, yet he knew way more about Itachi than even itachi thought he did (he told Sasuke this) So he could have killed off Itachi who didn't know everything about him. Plus you seem to lack the info we recently got about Madara who knows all of the Sharingan's secrets taught Tobi everything he knows.

Plus What itachi said about Madara (Tobi) being "a pathetic shell of his former self", He thought Tobi was Madara and Tobi does not have Madara's power and skill, Tobi even called himself a shell of his former self while faking to be Madara. Also Itachi said himself that both Izanagi and Izanami were used by the uchiha long ago even among thmselves so please tell me why would Tobi only know about 1 of the 2 when he was taught everything by Madara? Yeah I thought so.

Tobi Always had Wood element and able to summon Gedo Mazo (recent Chapters prove this). Tobi knows the jutsus Itachi can use and can break out of them so nothing Itachi could to but keep up their pact. If Tobi failed to keep the pact then Itachi said he will tell all 5 nations all of Akatski's(sp?) secrets and seeing how none of the countries really did anything about them until Sasuke attacked the kages, Tobi made full use of Itachi. It was only Konoha then Sand Village who did something to Akatski(sp?) and Sand didn't until Gaara was taken.

[Noddy]

It was either kamui or he could also extinguish it. So far to me it seems only those with amaterasu can extinguish the flames, however perhaps a mastered ms user can also even if they do not posses this technique. Kamui is also viable. This isnt the first time that kamui has warped ninjutsu. Kakashi has warped susano arrow, rasnegan, kage bunshin. Tobi was about to absorb konan's attack but instead slipped right through it.

The mastered MS theory is plausible but entirely speculative. It couldn't have been Kamui since the flames had already latched themselves onto Obito's body. Could he really suck up the black flames into his pocket dimension? I doubt it. Konan made it clear that he had to be attacked whilst his intangibility remained turned off. And he couldn't have phased out of it since they would've remained on his body even in the other dimension. He was screaming, so we know the heat affected him for a measurable period of time. He came back and his clothes hadn't been scorched. Can Amaterasu not even burn through light clothing? If it were Kamui, he would still have some burn marks. For me, Izanagi is most likely the big secret he kept from Itachi, seeing as Konan (who had done a comprehensive amount of research into Obito's Kamui and the like) was also caught off guard by his use of it.