Page 1 of 2 12 Last»
Results 1 to 20 of 34
  1. #1
    People are like katanas PrinceMyshkin's Avatar
    Status
    PrinceMyshkin is offline
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    466
    This user has no status.
     

    The genius of Kishi

    I think the absolutely best part of the manga is that no one in the manga is just evil.

    So far every major* villain become one because of the flaws of the world they live in. Orochimaru became evil because after seeing the horrors of a world war he came to despise the frailty of human life and fear of death made him strive to become perfect. Nagato was also the product of war which killed both his parents and his best friend which made him believe that the pain of loss was the only way to make people believe in the value of peace. Obito lost half of his own body and watched his best friend kill the girl he loved which made him realize that the way the world works is flawed (this is one of the more important ones and I'll talk more about it later). Even Madara was the product of a world which warps people's reality. Madara had fought his rival Senju clan for so long and sacrificed so much (Izuna's eyes that he took) that he could not go back to peace with the people who the circumstances of the world had made him hate for so long. Zabuza, Gaara, Sasori, etc... all of these villains had traumatic events in their lives which had distorted the way which the viewed the world. These are all broken men which are products of the world they lived in.

    Personally I think up to this point Obito's "warped" view of seeing the world (which is how old Madara viewed the world too) is actually the most important, because it is sort of all encompassing. The fact is that the world is fatally flawed. I think the fact that Obito does not blame Kakashi for Rin's death is very telling of this point. To Obito, Kakashi is not to blame for Rin's death, because he is just another victim of the circumstances of our flawed world. This fits into the general trend of all the major villains of shippuden.

    Therefore the moon's eye plan is a rejection of the flaws of the world in which we live. However, I believe that by having Naruto and the whole world fight against this plan Kishi is actually saying that completely rejecting the flaws of the world in which we live is not the best option either. I think that was Kishi is trying to say is that the tragedy in our lives and flaws of the world in which we live actually add something to them which is more important than having a perfect life. Think about it, what really is so bad about the moon's eye plan if it could create a perfect world? I think the answer to this question is that such a world would lack the kind of moment's which make our lives meaningful. I think that Kishi is trying to say that the flawed world we live in provide us with moments for the human spirit to overcome adversity which would be lacking in the moon's eye world.

    That is to say that the genius of Kishi is that no one is just evil but rather they are just a product of the flawed world in which they are influenced by, but that living in this flawed world is also important because it allows the human spirit to overcome adversity which adds meaning to their lives which they wouldn't have in a perfect world.
     
         
    Last edited by PrinceMyshkin; 11-14-2012 at 12:32 AM. Reason: added a sentence

  2. #2
    Senior Member metallica9565's Avatar
    Status
    metallica9565 is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,426
    Location
    N/A
    Kaguya fans don't exist
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    thats so true, they all have reasons for what theyve become!
     
         

  3. #3
    The Shogun's Avatar
    Status
    The Shogun is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    4,483
    Location
    The Rainy City
    My motivation in life "
    fall down 7 times, get up 8
    "
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    I agree that it is a deep story.
     
         

  4. #4
    Knock Knock MacMiller's Avatar
    Status
    MacMiller is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    2,572
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    What about Zetsu?
     
         

  5. #5
    Premium User Riker Slade's Avatar
    Status
    Riker Slade is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    35,602
    Location
    n
    So we can take the world back
    from the heart-attacked. One
    maniac at a time we will take
    it back.
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMiller View Post
    What about Zetsu?
    He's only on the villain side because that's what he was created to do.
     
         

  6. #6
    People are like katanas PrinceMyshkin's Avatar
    Status
    PrinceMyshkin is offline
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    466
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMiller View Post
    What about Zetsu?
    Well dark Zetzu is Madara's essence... White Zetzu seems pretty carefree. I wouldn't really consider him major though..
     
         

  7. #7
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
    Status
    Piratefish is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    1,140
    Location
    Somewhere REALLY cold.
    ..aaaand we are back down to
    normal...
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    OP:
    Fully agree in that sympathetic, or at least understandable villains are the best kind, and one of the major strengths of the Naruto series as a whole. The overarching ideologies of the Fourth War are very interesting, and ones we'd struggle with even in the real world if a "Perfect World" was a viable option (especially if it was an all-or-nothing-choice).

    This is a well made and clear illustration of the reason why I like pretty much every Naruto villain to a certain degree except Hidan, who just doesn't seem to have an explanation for his actions except being an insane sadomasochist.
     
         

  8. #8
    Knock Knock MacMiller's Avatar
    Status
    MacMiller is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    2,572
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    Quote Originally Posted by rikerslade View Post
    He's only on the villain side because that's what he was created to do.
    Kishimoto created him though.
    Quote Originally Posted by PrinceMyshkin View Post
    Well dark Zetzu is Madara's essence... White Zetzu seems pretty carefree. I wouldn't really consider him major though..
    Well, if it's major characters then..
     
         

  9. #9
    The Ruler of Swagakure Shodaime Swagkage's Avatar
    Status
    Shodaime Swagkage is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    729
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    That's why I like Naruto. You've just pointed it out for me.
     
         

  10. #10
    People are like katanas PrinceMyshkin's Avatar
    Status
    PrinceMyshkin is offline
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    466
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    Quote Originally Posted by Route69 View Post
    This is some serious sh*t.... nice stuff man... What are u on atm? i need to get myself some of the stuff ur on
    I'm on a philosophy major... trust me you don't want any of that...
     
         

  11. #11
    Missing Nin JasonTheArgonaut's Avatar
    Status
    JasonTheArgonaut is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    855
    Location
    Rotterdam, Holland
    Who gives a ****
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    Quote Originally Posted by PrinceMyshkin View Post
    I think the absolutely best part of the manga is that no one in the manga is just evil.

    So far every major* villain become one because of the flaws of the world they live in. Orochimaru became evil because after seeing the horrors of a world war he came to despise the frailty of human life and fear of death made him strive to become perfect. Nagato was also the product of war which killed both his parents and his best friend which made him believe that the pain of loss was the only way to make people believe in the value of peace. Obito lost half of his own body and watched his best friend kill the girl he loved which made him realize that the way the world works is flawed (this is one of the more important ones and I'll talk more about it later). Even Madara was the product of a world which warps people's reality. Madara had fought his rival Senju clan for so long and sacrificed so much (Izuna's eyes that he took) that he could not go back to peace with the people who the circumstances of the world had made him hate for so long. Zabuza, Gaara, Sasori, etc... all of these villains had traumatic events in their lives which had distorted the way which the viewed the world. These are all broken men which are products of the world they lived in.

    Personally I think up to this point Obito's "warped" view of seeing the world (which is how old Madara viewed the world too) is actually the most important, because it is sort of all encompassing. The fact is that the world is fatally flawed. I think the fact that Obito does not blame Kakashi for Rin's death is very telling of this point. To Obito, Kakashi is not to blame for Rin's death, because he is just another victim of the circumstances of our flawed world. This fits into the general trend of all the major villains of shippuden.

    Therefore the moon's eye plan is a rejection of the flaws of the world in which we live. However, I believe that by having Naruto and the whole world fight against this plan Kishi is actually saying that completely rejecting the flaws of the world in which we live is not the best option either. I think that was Kishi is trying to say is that the tragedy in our lives and flaws of the world in which we live actually add something to them which is more important than having a perfect life. Think about it, what really is so bad about the moon's eye plan if it could create a perfect world? I think the answer to this question is that such a world would lack the kind of moment's which make our lives meaningful. I think that Kishi is trying to say that the flawed world we live in provide us with moments for the human spirit to overcome adversity which would be lacking in the moon's eye world.

    That is to say that the genius of Kishi is that no one is just evil but rather they are just a product of the flawed world in which they are influenced by, but that living in this flawed world is also important because it allows the human spirit to overcome adversity which adds meaning to their lives which they wouldn't have in a perfect world.
    your wrong with zabuza though it is true that the hidden mist academy had a one on one fight to the death to graduate
    but zabuza was too young too be at the academy and he didnt kill on he killed 100 so he was just plain evil till naruto changed followed by his death
     
         

  12. #12
    Premium User Riker Slade's Avatar
    Status
    Riker Slade is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    35,602
    Location
    n
    So we can take the world back
    from the heart-attacked. One
    maniac at a time we will take
    it back.
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMiller View Post
    Kishimoto created him though.

    Well, if it's major characters then..
    What's your point?
     
         

  13. #13
    Lord Orochimaru blazekev90's Avatar
    Status
    blazekev90 is online now
    Gender
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    11,012
    Location
    Connecticut
    IAmKing
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    Please don't downplay Orochimaru's evil intentions, I'll take that very personal -_-
     
         

  14. #14
    FEAR THE GENTLE FIST The Demonic Kazekage's Avatar
    Status
    The Demonic Kazekage is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,124
    Location
    Trapped Within The City Of Dis
    Im bored
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    Great observation
    Thumbs up
     
         

  15. #15
    People are like katanas PrinceMyshkin's Avatar
    Status
    PrinceMyshkin is offline
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    466
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    OP:
    Fully agree in that sympathetic, or at least understandable villains are the best kind, and one of the major strengths of the Naruto series as a whole. The overarching ideologies of the Fourth War are very interesting, and ones we'd struggle with even in the real world if a "Perfect World" was a viable option (especially if it was an all-or-nothing-choice).

    This is a well made and clear illustration of the reason why I like pretty much every Naruto villain to a certain degree except Hidan, who just doesn't seem to have an explanation for his actions except being an insane sadomasochist.
    Well the real world non-Naruto equivalent to the moon's eye plan would be something more along the lines of the plot of the Matrix... were you aren't really living your life but are in a virtual reality simulation. The difference being in the Matrix they made that simulation flawed too, but you could easily just make the simulation perfect.

    And I agree about Hidan... I was waiting the whole time for some explanation of why he was so crazy, because I mean we at least got that Kakuzu was so old he was completely detached from reality and basically not human anymore... but I guess Hidan never really died so there couldn't be a death scene flashback..
     
         

  16. #16
    People are like katanas PrinceMyshkin's Avatar
    Status
    PrinceMyshkin is offline
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    466
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTheArgonaut View Post
    your wrong with zabuza though it is true that the hidden mist academy had a one on one fight to the death to graduate
    but zabuza was too young too be at the academy and he didnt kill on he killed 100 so he was just plain evil till naruto changed followed by his death
    You could say that he was a product of the Bloody Mist Village ideology at that time, but yeah I get your point. I honestly don't even remember much of that fight I might go back and reread it.
     
         

  17. #17
    Scathach YowYan's Avatar
    Status
    YowYan is offline
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    11,614
    Location
    At the Organization, decapitating Rimuto
    Sun Gazing, Peripheral Blazing
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    True, true. In my eyes, no true evil exists. Only lack of compassion and great, but dangerous ideals. Evil for me is someone that's not aware of his connection to the rest of the universe. My sig pretty much states that. ^
    Especially manga in which there is no typical 'good-guy, bad-guy' appeal to me.
     
         
    Last edited by YowYan; 11-14-2012 at 12:58 AM.

  18. #18
    Missing Nin JasonTheArgonaut's Avatar
    Status
    JasonTheArgonaut is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    855
    Location
    Rotterdam, Holland
    Who gives a ****
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    Quote Originally Posted by PrinceMyshkin View Post
    You could say that he was a product of the Bloody Mist Village ideology at that time, but yeah I get your point. I honestly don't even remember much of that fight I might go back and reread it.
    he was like 10 years old when he got the nickname demon zabuza
     
         

  19. #19
    Banned
    Status
    Narutofan4203 is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,026
    Location
    In an opionative universe.
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    yep, exactly
    But Madara lost one battle as we've seen many characters lose battles, hes just a bitter defeat loser.
     
         

  20. #20
    黄俊 Huang's Avatar
    Status
    Huang is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,079
    Location
    The Netherlands
    I read comicbooks for a
    living,.. Just sayin'.
     

    Re: The genius of Kishi

    Agreed, the character's broad backgrounds are the main reason I follow the serie.
     
         

Page 1 of 2 12 Last»

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •