EMS Madara and Hashirama VS Allied Shinobi Force

[Icelerate]

Location: Madara VS 5 kages
Restrictions: Offensive uses of kamui
Knowledge: Full for Allied Shinobi force, none for the two legends
Starting Distance: 1 km

Basically all the divisions in the Allied Shinobi forces fight against an alive Hashirama and an alive Madara all at once. Remember there are 80 000 chunin and jounin level ninjas in it. Here are the members: 5 kages, Konoha 11, kage body guards, Kakashi, Gai, Omoi, Karui, Shizune, Shikaku, Inoichi, Chouza, Kitsuchi, Mifune and anyone else I might be forgetting.

Note: Killer Bee shows up fine minutes after the battle begins and Naruto shows up 10 minutes after the battle begins.

[fastrthnwind]

The alliance has this.

They are legends no doubt, but taking on the shinobi world is completely suicide unless you have the numbers to match.

Thread Close no Jutsu

[Simple Math]

the allied shinobi force win, i dont see how the duo will stand a chance.

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

Madara and Hashi high diff, Madara took out most of Gaara's platoon and with Hashi they take out the entire force with Mokuton:Nativity of a World of Trees,Katon: Grand fire annialtion, Mokuton: Advent of a world of Flowering Trees, Yasaka Magatama, Katon:Great fire dragon and Katon: Great fire destruction. And Madara can solo the five kages already and with Hashi will be over kill, Madara takes the kages bodyguards down with Perfect Susano'o and takes Mifune down with Genjutsu:Sharingan, Hashi cleans up the battlefield and then uses Wood Dragon on Bee and Naruto and then Madara uses Fire Release: Dragon Flame Release Song Technique.

[USSJ Future Trunks]

ems madara and hashirama are completely and utterly featless and have done nothing, not even a little bit, onscreen that impresses me. all we know about either is word of moth and the shit edo madara is doing. but hes only doing all that shit because hes both senju and uchiha, and has that nifty immortality/unlimited stamina shit. if kishi wanted to show us ems and hashi fight, he'd do so, not this pseudo bullshit.
simply put naruto solos. he annhilates the both of them with speedblitz, FRS and bijuudama. completely different level to both. with frog genjutsu theres no hope for victory. just have fodders fight till he gets there. no reason to risk kages or bee

[Icelerate]

ems madara and hashirama are completely and utterly featless and have done nothing, not even a little bit, onscreen that impresses me. all we know about either is word of moth and the shit edo madara is doing. but hes only doing all that shit because hes both senju and uchiha, and has that nifty immortality/unlimited stamina shit. if kishi wanted to show us ems and hashi fight, he'd do so, not this pseudo bullshit.
simply put naruto solos. he annhilates the both of them with speedblitz, FRS and bijuudama. completely different level to both. with frog genjutsu theres no hope for victory. just have fodders fight till he gets there. no reason to risk kages or bee

EMS Madara still has PS, susanoo with legs, massive katons, great reaction skills, paralysis sharingan genjutsu, great prowess at CQC with his fan and the ability to reflect any attack that isn't bigger than his fan.

Hashirama has flower tree world, wood dragon, nativity of a world of trees and all of Danzo's/Yamato's/Zetsu's/Madara's/Obito's mokuton feats. He also has Tsunade level regeneration and very likely has great physical strength and stamina because he has the body of the Younger Son.

Both of these guys have powerful offence and defence capable of annihilating thousands of fodders in a matter of seconds. I don't see why people are underestimating these two legends. The only one that can put up a fight is Naruto but he is a bad match up against Hashirama due to Hashi's ability to suppress chakra, something that Naruto has an abundant supply of.

I say Madara and Hashirama win high difficulty only because Naruto and Bee will be too late. The rest of the alliance are ants compared to these two.

[TheSages456]

madara already wiped out an entire division with a move that pales in comparison to perfect susano. hashirama and madara can win i guess. hashirama could solo naruto and bee if they show up. madara can wipe the kages off the map the same way he was about to do in the manga. anyone else gets killed in the crossfire.

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

EMS Madara still has PS, susanoo with legs, massive katons, great reaction skills, paralysis sharingan genjutsu, great prowess at CQC with his fan and the ability to reflect any attack that isn't bigger than his fan.

Hashirama has flower tree world, wood dragon, nativity of a world of trees and all of Danzo's/Yamato's/Zetsu's/Madara's/Obito's mokuton feats. He also has Tsunade level regeneration and very likely has great physical strength and stamina because he has the body of the Younger Son.


Both of these guys have powerful offence and defence capable of annihilating thousands of fodders in a matter of seconds. I don't see why people are underestimating these two legends. The only one that can put up a fight is Naruto but he is a bad match up against Hashirama due to Hashi's ability to suppress chakra, something that Naruto has an abundant supply of.

I say Madara and Hashirama win high difficulty only because Naruto and Bee will be too late. The rest of the alliance are ants compared to these two.

No point arguing with USSJ he is a Hashirama hater.

[Cowthulhu45]

Madara solo'ed 20000 guys in 20 seconds, but he would die if not for edo tensei, and this aint edo madara.

ASF wins.

[karol the don]

the legends willl succed !

[Joki]

ems madara and hashirama are completely and utterly featless and have done nothing, not even a little bit, onscreen that impresses me. all we know about either is word of moth and the shit edo madara is doing. but hes only doing all that shit because hes both senju and uchiha, and has that nifty immortality/unlimited stamina shit. if kishi wanted to show us ems and hashi fight, he'd do so, not this pseudo bullshit.
simply put naruto solos. he annhilates the both of them with speedblitz, FRS and bijuudama. completely different level to both. with frog genjutsu theres no hope for victory. just have fodders fight till he gets there. no reason to risk kages or bee

Hurr durr, Madara totally didn't annihilate 2 mountains by just nonchalantly waving his sword.

[Omnipotent]

EMS Madara and Hashirama take this. Edo Madara not serious at all (while fodderizing Kage) << Tryhard EMS Madara < Tryhard Hashirama <<<<<<<< Edo Madara trying a little bit.

[Piratefish]

Location: Madara VS 5 kages
Restrictions: Offensive uses of kamui
Knowledge: Full for Allied Shinobi force, none for the two legends
Starting Distance: 1 km

Basically all the divisions in the Allied Shinobi forces fight against an alive Hashirama and an alive Madara all at once. Remember there are 80 000 chunin and jounin level ninjas in it. Here are the members: 5 kages, Konoha 11, kage body guards, Kakashi, Gai, Omoi, Karui, Shizune, Shikaku, Inoichi, Chouza, Kitsuchi, Mifune and anyone else I might be forgetting.

Note: Killer Bee shows up fine minutes after the battle begins and Naruto shows up 10 minutes after the battle begins.

The Allied Forces take this without help, if only through sheer mass of numbers. The 5 Kages might be enough, even. Jinton and all that stuff which was dealt with through the Rinnegan is now a legitimate threat, and remember, Madara in the 5 Kage battle was basically Hashirama and Madara put together, WITH Rinnegan, endless chakra AND an immortal body.

They stand no chance of winning, that's for DAMN sure.

Even the Sandaime Raikage, whose body is LEGITIMATELY IRON, was unable to take down more than 10,000 men. And he is a decent match for EMS Madara's PS (maybe slightly lower attack strength, equivalent defense, higher speed).

[USSJ Future Trunks]

urr durr, Madara totally didn't annihilate 2 mountains

ems madara didnt. immortal invincible senju dna powered madara however...

EMS Madara still has PS,

and yet no one has seen it and lived. meaning he didnt use on hashirama and it has no feats relating to ems, only edo. and nothing his susano did suggested bijuudama-tanking durability.

paralysis sharingan genjutsu, great prowess at CQC with his fan and the ability to reflect any attack that isn't bigger than his fan

no it cant and no he doesnt. since when can it reflect ANY attack? way to use no limits fallacy. proof it can take a cell destroying FRS please.

Hashirama has flower tree world, wood dragon, nativity of a world of trees and all of Danzo's/Yamato's/Zetsu's/Madara's/Obito's mokuton feats.

nowhere in OP did it say give their feats to hashirama. its an impossibility. what they do with it is their creativity. how did hashi get blood down his face if he can instantly put anyone to sleep/phase through the ground/rip people in half? exactly. mokuton supression already cant work on perfect jins as they would just turn human.

I don't see why people are underestimating these two legends.

they arent. they have literally done nothing. not a single thing. not even a little bit resembling battle feats. they are featless beyond belief. tell me they can tank 13 rasenshurikens. wait you cant. tell me they can tank continuous bijuudama. wait you cant,. tell me the have a counter for toad confrontation chant. wait you cant. how do you know or anyone know what their capabilities and limits are? we dont. they havent done anything and we dont know what happened in their oh so famous fight. all we know of madara is he can spam alot of OP shit. guess what? without enhancements hes dead by his own meteor in 2 chapters. he already had to go to rinnegan vs a bunch of half dead kages and a clone. hashi already got annhilated by an old man in 3, maybe 4 chapters. they are godawfuly pathetic

due to Hashi's ability to suppress chakra

naruto turns human, speedblitzes, shoves FRS up his ass

madara already wiped out an entire division

by killing himself

hashirama could solo naruto and bee if they show up

naruto speedblitzes and throws 13 rasenshurikens at him or spams clones till a gigantic bijuudamas ready then literally blows him away. his strength =unparalleled. speed = even higher level as only minato can outpace him. destructive capacity = so much so he damages at a cellular level and casually busts probably islands if he wanted

madara can wipe the kages off the map the same way he was about to do in the manga.

which is why he needed rinnegan just to get past half dead onoki/gaara and a naruto clone. makes sense..wait...wait no...it doesnt. and do you really think he could have stood against dust release without that nifty rinnegan that absorbs the only jutsu that can damage at a subatomic level?

EMS Madara and Hashirama take this.

neither have counters for onoki and kakashi (who can warp and spit out onoki so hes right in their faces. no time to do anything but a hasty defence and that isnt stopping jinton to the face. so basically dead in the first few secs. naruto and bee not needed.

[warlee]

Madara and hashirama can not counter Naruto & bee combine bijuu dama. And 80,000 shinobi? Are you kidding me? None of the legends can counter kamui and they have smart people like shikaku, shikamaru and kakashi that can formulate a plane. The legends are nothing but powerhouse they are not genius battlewise. I believe naruto kakashi and gai can beat 1 of them while the 5kages bee 80,000 shinobi beat the other. And note madara was only able to destroy gaara's division thanks to rinnegan which he didn't have here and all hashirama's wood tech shown have been countered. The alliance mid to low difficulty

[shelke]

Hashirama and Madara take this. PS took out on whole mountain with a casual slash of its sword; place acouple of thousand people in its place and it'll be instant slaughter. Onoki's particle technique was easily countered by going into complete sussano: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/588/16. Which means it's not exactly a one-shot technique and can easily be dealt with by going into complete sussano mode to cancel it out.

TBBs' are too sluggish when the energy is being gathered and can easily be countered with a quick move like Amatersu, or Magatamas. Madara can take out all of the kages, either with a sword slash or asking Hashirama to create a mokuton forest around them and setting it on Amatersu. They will get burnt instantly. People forget that Madara was only playing. The second he got serious, they got their asses stomped to oblivion.

[Simple Math]

Hashirama and Madara take this. PS took out on whole mountain with a casual slash of its sword; place acouple of thousand people in its place and it'll be instant slaughter. Onoki's particle technique was easily countered by going into complete sussano: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/588/16. Which means it's not exactly a one-shot technique and can easily be dealt with by going into complete sussano mode to cancel it out.

TBBs' are too sluggish when the energy is being gathered and can easily be countered with a quick move like Amatersu, or Magatamas. Madara can take out all of the kages, either with a sword slash or asking Hashirama to create a mokuton forest around them and setting it on Amatersu. They will get burnt instantly. People forget that Madara was only playing. The second he got serious, they got their asses stomped to oblivion.

then Naruto and Bee appear with their huge TBB combination that will fk his perfect susanoo up..

[shelke]

^ TBBs' are sluggish as far as the prep time goes. That's their greatest disadvantage. The sword slash is extremely quick in comparison.

[bobisacoolguy]

allied shinobi

[Joki]

ems madara didnt. immortal invincible senju dna powered madara however...


and yet no one has seen it and lived. meaning he didnt use on hashirama and it has no feats relating to ems, only edo. and nothing his susano did suggested bijuudama-tanking durability.


no it cant and no he doesnt. since when can it reflect ANY attack? way to use no limits fallacy. proof it can take a cell destroying FRS please.


nowhere in OP did it say give their feats to hashirama. its an impossibility. what they do with it is their creativity. how did hashi get blood down his face if he can instantly put anyone to sleep/phase through the ground/rip people in half? exactly. mokuton supression already cant work on perfect jins as they would just turn human.


they arent. they have literally done nothing. not a single thing. not even a little bit resembling battle feats. they are featless beyond belief. tell me they can tank 13 rasenshurikens. wait you cant. tell me they can tank continuous bijuudama. wait you cant,. tell me the have a counter for toad confrontation chant. wait you cant. how do you know or anyone know what their capabilities and limits are? we dont. they havent done anything and we dont know what happened in their oh so famous fight. all we know of madara is he can spam alot of OP shit. guess what? without enhancements hes dead by his own meteor in 2 chapters. he already had to go to rinnegan vs a bunch of half dead kages and a clone. hashi already got annhilated by an old man in 3, maybe 4 chapters. they are godawfuly pathetic

naruto turns human, speedblitzes, shoves FRS up his ass


by killing himself


naruto speedblitzes and throws 13 rasenshurikens at him or spams clones till a gigantic bijuudamas ready then literally blows him away. his strength =unparalleled. speed = even higher level as only minato can outpace him. destructive capacity = so much so he damages at a cellular level and casually busts probably islands if he wanted

which is why he needed rinnegan just to get past half dead onoki/gaara and a naruto clone. makes sense..wait...wait no...it doesnt. and do you really think he could have stood against dust release without that nifty rinnegan that absorbs the only jutsu that can damage at a subatomic level?


neither have counters for onoki and kakashi (who can warp and spit out onoki so hes right in their faces. no time to do anything but a hasty defence and that isnt stopping jinton to the face. so basically dead in the first few secs. naruto and bee not needed.

All that shit has literally nothing to do with Perfect Susano'o. Which EMS Madar DID have, and it did blow up mountains. Stop downplaying characters because you're jealous they're stronger than your favorite characters.

Guess what guize, it's official now, Itachi can't even use his crimson phoenix flower jutsu when he's living, he HAS to be Edo to use it!

[MickNerks]

EMS Madara still has PS, susanoo with legs, massive katons, great reaction skills, paralysis sharingan genjutsu, great prowess at CQC with his fan and the ability to reflect any attack that isn't bigger than his fan.

Hashirama has flower tree world, wood dragon, nativity of a world of trees and all of Danzo's/Yamato's/Zetsu's/Madara's/Obito's mokuton feats. He also has Tsunade level regeneration and very likely has great physical strength and stamina because he has the body of the Younger Son.

Both of these guys have powerful offence and defence capable of annihilating thousands of fodders in a matter of seconds. I don't see why people are underestimating these two legends. The only one that can put up a fight is Naruto but he is a bad match up against Hashirama due to Hashi's ability to suppress chakra, something that Naruto has an abundant supply of.

I say Madara and Hashirama win high difficulty only because Naruto and Bee will be too late. The rest of the alliance are ants compared to these two.

EMS madara does not have Perfect susanoo. Only Rinnegan madara can do that..

[Icelerate]

ems madara didnt. immortal invincible senju dna powered madara however...

EMS Madara still had PS.

and yet no one has seen it and lived. meaning he didnt use on hashirama and it has no feats relating to ems, only edo. and nothing his susano did suggested bijuudama-tanking durability.

No Madara did use it against Hashirama or else Madara wouldn't be saying that only Hashirama could stop me which means either Madara was implying that Hashirama can stop edo Madara or that Hashirama can counter PS. Which one do you choose?

no it cant and no he doesnt. since when can it reflect ANY attack? way to use no limits fallacy. proof it can take a cell destroying FRS please.

It deflected a mini bijuu dama with ease and how do the cell destroying capabilities of FRS matter in this scenario since Madara's Uchiha Gaeshi technique will just reflect an attack that has less chakra than the mini bijuu dama.

nowhere in OP did it say give their feats to hashirama. its an impossibility. what they do with it is their creativity. how did hashi get blood down his face if he can instantly put anyone to sleep/phase through the ground/rip people in half? exactly. mokuton supression already cant work on perfect jins as they would just turn human.

Because he fought against the strongest Uchiha and the strongest bijuu so despite Hashirama's overwhelming power, he has his limits too. Didn't Hashirama's wood dragon give Naruto and Bee a tough time?

they arent. they have literally done nothing. not a single thing. not even a little bit resembling battle feats. they are featless beyond belief. tell me they can tank 13 rasenshurikens. wait you cant. tell me they can tank continuous bijuudama. wait you cant,. tell me the have a counter for toad confrontation chant. wait you cant. how do you know or anyone know what their capabilities and limits are? we dont. they havent done anything and we dont know what happened in their oh so famous fight. all we know of madara is he can spam alot of OP shit. guess what? without enhancements hes dead by his own meteor in 2 chapters. he already had to go to rinnegan vs a bunch of half dead kages and a clone. hashi already got annhilated by an old man in 3, maybe 4 chapters. they are godawfuly pathetic

FRS - blocked by any form of susanoo above rib cage or by a line up of mokuton trees.
TBB - Hashirama can stop Naruto by restraining him with mokuton if he tries to prep an attack like that.
Frog song - Hashirama covers his ears with wood while Madara is too high up in the air to be effected by the sound waves. Madara could have used his PS when he was yanked out by Gaara and Hashirama was a brain dead zombie who only attacked Hiruzen whenever Oro gave the command to do so.

naruto turns human, speedblitzes, shoves FRS up his ass

Yet he hasn't been able to speed blitz any top tier ninjas so far. If he has blitzed anyone, prove it.

naruto speedblitzes and throws 13 rasenshurikens at him or spams clones till a gigantic bijuudamas ready then literally blows him away. his strength =unparalleled. speed = even higher level as only minato can outpace him. destructive capacity = so much so he damages at a cellular level and casually busts probably islands if he wanted

I don't remember Naruto using 13 rasenshurikens at once. Guess what, Naruto arrives ten minutes after the battle starts and Madara and Hashirama can also bust islands.

which is why he needed rinnegan just to get past half dead onoki/gaara and a naruto clone. makes sense..wait...wait no...it doesnt. and do you really think he could have stood against dust release without that nifty rinnegan that absorbs the only jutsu that can damage at a subatomic level?

No he could have used PS.

neither have counters for onoki and kakashi (who can warp and spit out onoki so hes right in their faces. no time to do anything but a hasty defence and that isnt stopping jinton to the face. so basically dead in the first few secs. naruto and bee not needed.

This actually is a good point but they are likely to be fooled by a wood clone. Jinton can be stopped before it can be prepped.

Madara and hashirama can not counter Naruto & bee combine bijuu dama. And 80,000 shinobi? Are you kidding me? None of the legends can counter kamui and they have smart people like shikaku, shikamaru and kakashi that can formulate a plane. The legends are nothing but powerhouse they are not genius battlewise. I believe naruto kakashi and gai can beat 1 of them while the 5kages bee 80,000 shinobi beat the other. And note madara was only able to destroy gaara's division thanks to rinnegan which he didn't have here and all hashirama's wood tech shown have been countered. The alliance mid to low difficulty

Did I not restrict kamui for offensive purposes? Madara and Hashirama are quite capable of stopping Naruto and Bee from performing an attack that takes time to prep. Madara has a shit load of battle experience and Hashirama was probably intelligent due to being a leader. Hashirama's wood techs were hard to counter despite Madara's less skill in it and the fact he has been toying around for most of the time.

EMS madara does not have Perfect susanoo. Only Rinnegan madara can do that..

He does have PS.

[T Bogard]

If we take into consideration Edo Madara's performance we must say that the EMS version doesn't have Mokuton clones or even every other Mokuton techniques, which means that multiple Susanoo is also restricted. He also doesn't have Rinnengan. So it only leaves him genjutsu, Susanoo(perfect or not) or other fire techniques as his only feats that we know. We have seen that Gaara(with a little bit help from Onoki) was already puting the EMS version in difficulties where he had to ressort to Rinnengan to survive. So add other powerful shinobis like other kages, Kakashi, Gai, Darui, etc and it's a stomp.

Now people may talk about Perfect Susanoo, sure it seems really powerful, but the chakra to summon it must also be really insane. I doubt that alive Madara could use Perfect Susanoo for too long. Even his Edo version only uses it in case of absolute necessity. He didn't even used it against Naruto's group when he said he was serious about wanting to capture them, so sooner or later he will run out of stamina and get killed

Since Hashirama has no feats except maybe his part1 feat which is not impressiv, so i don't know where is to discuss here. I doubt the EMS version of Madara even with Hashirama's help could do a valuable thing against the joint army before they get stomped, at least from what we know

[KidGamer65]

ems madara and hashirama are completely and utterly featless and have done nothing, not even a little bit, onscreen that impresses me. all we know about either is word of moth and the shit edo madara is doing. but hes only doing all that shit because hes both senju and uchiha, and has that nifty immortality/unlimited stamina shit. if kishi wanted to show us ems and hashi fight, he'd do so, not this pseudo bullshit.
simply put naruto solos. he annhilates the both of them with speedblitz, FRS and bijuudama. completely different level to both. with frog genjutsu theres no hope for victory. just have fodders fight till he gets there. no reason to risk kages or bee

Hashirama alone can beat Naruto. Only a fan or a moron would say Naruto solos.

[Piratefish]

Hashirama alone can beat Naruto. Only a fan or a moron would say Naruto solos.

I proudly proclaim myself a moron, then, as Naruto, fighting smart (rare occurence, but it HAS happened) could conceivably solo these two.

Take a look at Madara and Naruto's relative speeds (and keep in mind that Madara has the Sharingan, and Naruto is moving linearly, giving him an advantage Hashirama WOULDN'T have):

Naruto has formed a Bijuudama AND crossed a fair amount of distance in the time it takes Madara to raise his arms a little. Granted, it was all that needed to be done, but it still seems quite obvious that BM Naruto outspeeds Edo Madara by a significant amount, even while moving in a completely linear fashion. Which means he'd outspeed Hashirama even more.

So what if, for example, BM Naruto formed three clones for each of the two Founders, and having all of them create Bijuudamas (Bijuudamae?). If you feel this is unrealistic, have him form only three clones, which he is confirmed to be capable of.

So, if each clone triad rushed their chosen Founder in a triangle formation, how would they counter it?