View Poll Results: Who wins?

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  • Hashirama and Madara

    7 38.89%
  • Allied Shinobi Forces with help from both jinchuriki

    7 38.89%
  • Allied Shinobi Forces with Bee's help

    0 0%
  • Allied Shinobi Forces without help from the jinchuriki

    4 22.22%
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  1. #51
    Sasuke > Your Favourite shelke's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara and Hashirama VS Allied Shinobi Force

    Oh, you don't care? Well THAT means you must win EVERY debate.

    If a clone has enough chakra to use a technique, that technique is as powerful as if the original used it. Go back to Naruto's clones fighting multiple Kages for proof of that.
    No I don't care about things that make no sense. Now you are comparing Naruto KM and nine-tails mode clones to Madara's? Does that chakra distribution even APPLY to Naruto who is getting a vast amount of chakra from Kurama? And despite that, didn't his clone simply disappear when the technique was deflected in his face? Would that happen to Naruto as well? It means the clones cannot maintain a form if the damage exceeds a certain amount as they don't have any physical energy at all. This is how chakra distribution works for Bunshin clones: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-95-6/na...hapter-90.html.

    The more control the user has over the chakra, the less of it will be utilized for making a clone. Hence if about 5% used to make three clones, the user would have of his chakra intact. Who told you that clones are at the same level as the user? Even if the technique is Sussano clones or any complex, if all the clones are at the same chakra level, then how on earth were they destroyed as Madara is on an infinite chakra reserve? Also, the chakra built up for the technique and the actual usage is not the same.

    The actual usage for a Bushin technique clones is about 30% only at a decent control level - it'll be reduced even more if the control is better - , leaving the user at 70% chakra reserve. If a technique is more complex it would probably use 40% maybe? Now divide this into 5 clones, how much is each clone on?

    Is it not dominating the Hachibi AND the Kyuubi?
    What are you getting at? The current Juubi lacks about 80% of its whole power, as it doesn't have two top tail beasts. End of story.
     
         

  2. #52
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara and Hashirama VS Allied Shinobi Force

    Quote Originally Posted by shelke View Post
    No I don't care about things that make no sense. Now you are comparing Naruto KM and nine-tails mode clones to Madara's? Does that chakra distribution even APPLY to Naruto who is getting a vast amount of chakra from Kurama? And despite that, didn't his clone simply disappear when the technique was deflected in his face? Would that happen to Naruto as well? It means the clones cannot maintain a form if the damage exceeds a certain amount as they don't have any physical energy at all. This is how chakra distribution works for Bunshin clones: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-95-6/na...hapter-90.html.
    Thank you for explaining this, while it is wholly unrelated to anything I said, it's useful knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by shelke View Post
    The more control the user has over the chakra, the less of it will be utilized for making a clone. Hence if about 5% used to make three clones, the user would have of his chakra intact. Who told you that clones are at the same level as the user? Even if the technique is Sussano clones or any complex, if all the clones are at the same chakra level, then how on earth were they destroyed as Madara is on an infinite chakra reserve? Also, the chakra built up for the technique and the actual usage is not the same.
    Thank you for explaining this, while it is wholly unrelated to anything I said, it's useful knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by shelke View Post
    The actual usage for a Bushin technique clones is about 30% only at a decent control level - it'll be reduced even more if the control is better - , leaving the user at 70% chakra reserve. If a technique is more complex it would probably use 40% maybe? Now divide this into 5 clones, how much is each clone on?
    Thank you for explaining this, while it is wholly unrelated to anything I said, it's useful knowledge.

    I did not state that each clone was as powerful as their creator. I said THEY COULD USE TECHNIQUES ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THEIR CREATOR. Look at Naruto and the Rasengan for proof of that; both Naruto and clones posess equal amounts of concentration and control.

    A clone, with enough chakra, can do anything its creator can except take damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by shelke View Post
    What are you getting at? The current Juubi lacks about 80% of its whole power, as it doesn't have two top tail beasts. End of story.
    Your statement makes no sense. You are ignoring both KinGin bros and the Hachibi's tentacle. Two times six tails worth of chakra is a significant fraction of the Kyuubi's power, and though the single tail might not be as significant, the Juubi definitely doesn't lack "80%" of its power.

    Otherwise, why would it be able to DOMINATE THE HACHIBI AND KYUUBI?

    According to you they represent, together, 80% of its power. THAT MEANS EACH OF THEM SHOULD BE ABLE TO OVERPOWER THE JUUBI BY ITSELF.

    Here's a visual representation of how the Kyuubi stands in relation to the Juubi:

    Look at the Mini-Kyuubi.

    Kurama is convinced the Juubi's power is immesurable, while his own power is. So according to HIM(/HER?), it's quite simply on a different scale. There's no comparison between them.
     
         
    Last edited by Piratefish; 11-23-2012 at 11:07 PM.

  3. #53
    Senior Member genii96's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara and Hashirama VS Allied Shinobi Force

    This is a joke,ems madara and hashirama have no hope of winning,5kages+kakashi+guy+all the other top ninjas vs these 2?. The kages could handle hashirama,while madara takes on all the other shinobi at once.

    Sorry,ASF mid diff
     
         

  4. #54
    Senior Member genii96's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara and Hashirama VS Allied Shinobi Force

    This is a joke,ems madara and hashirama have no hope of winning,5kages+kakashi+guy+all the other top ninjas vs these 2?. The kages could handle hashirama,while madara takes on all the other shinobi at once.

    Sorry,ASF mid diff
     
         

  5. #55
    Sasuke > Your Favourite shelke's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara and Hashirama VS Allied Shinobi Force

    @PirateFish They are unrelated if you chose them to be. Also, 9 tails is the strongest, correct? 8 tails is the second strongest, correct? Now Juubi only houses 7 tailed beasts, correct? And 9 tails alone was able to overwhelm 5 tailed beats fully charged blast, correct? The power difference between 8 and 9 tails is quite big.

    Now add all this, and where does the Juubi stand as it's only the combined form of all the tailed beasts and two of the top ones are missing from it? You don't have to be a genius to figure this out. Nine tails deflecting its attack means nothing on basis of these facts.
     
         

  6. #56
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: EMS Madara and Hashirama VS Allied Shinobi Force

    Quote Originally Posted by shelke View Post
    @PirateFish They are unrelated if you chose them to be. Also, 9 tails is the strongest, correct? 8 tails is the second strongest, correct? Now Juubi only houses 7 tailed beasts, correct? And 9 tails alone was able to overwhelm 5 tailed beats fully charged blast, correct? The power difference between 8 and 9 tails is quite big.
    They are unrelated because you (as you are VERY fond of) went into detail on the amount of chakra included in a clone, and on the amount of damage it could take.

    My actual topic on conversation concerned whether a clone could perform the same techniques, with the same amount of power, as the original, if the clone's chakra holds out. You have not even attempted to disprove this, instead trying to paint me as an uncooperative buffoon.

    Correct, the 9 tails is the strongest. Correct, the 8 tails follows in terms of strength. Incorrect, the Juubi houses more than the 7 tailed beasts, it houses a significant fraction of both the Hachibi and especially the Kyuubi. It also contains the Gedou Mazou, which contains significant power even WITHOUT Bijuu sealed within it. Altogether, the Juubi is FAR more powerful than the Hachibi and Kyuubi put together.

    Quote Originally Posted by shelke View Post
    Now add all this, and where does the Juubi stand as it's only the combined form of all the tailed beasts and two of the top ones are missing from it? You don't have to be a genius to figure this out. Nine tails deflecting its attack means nothing on basis of these facts.
    The Juubi stands supreme as the single strongest being in the Narutoverse. Though it's not as strong as it COULD be, it's still on a different level to anything else. Apparently the Juubi is capable of absorbing energy directly from Nature (either that or it IS Natural Energy incarnate), giving it unmatched, effectively limitless power. Kurama, and even the HACHIBI, deflecting its attack means NOTHING? Whoa.

    I'll leave you to ponder the veracity of your own statement.
     
         

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