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  1. #1
    The one and only. Jay T's Avatar
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    What is wrong with communism?

    Any time an American(I know I'm generalizing) hears the word commy they instantly think HEY HEY!! BAD..bad....baaad. lol

    What I want to know what is so had about it, o mean its really just you government playing robin hood, instead of ceo's making over 400 times as their employees is would he more like 4 times as much, distribution of wealth and more regulations on exactly how far Tue man can really stick it to you. I don't see anything wrong with that part at least.
     
         

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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    I don't know enough to answer you, but I know enough to recognize that Communism, Stalinism, and Socialism are not the same thing, and they're often used interchangeably.
     
         

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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    the actual ideals of communism isn't actually that bad, theoretically everyone gets the exact same and there is no rich or poor, but all equal and everything is owned by the state which is very different to the likes of america and people don't like change. Many americans probably don't know what communism actually is, they just link it to the red threat which is automatically bad in the eyes of americans,
     
         

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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    Russia is direct fascism.
    USA is indirect fascism.
     
         

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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    Most americans when they hear the word Communism, Stalin, soviet, Cuba's life style, war ready korea comes to mind. They tend to think that the government will be holding them by the balls. They seem to not distinguish the difference between communism, totalitarian, and socialism. I live in the u.s and can easily tell. I honestly believe this country could use some socialism to help balance it since capitalism is starting to fail.
     
         

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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    1. advocacy of a classless society in which private ownership has been abolished and the means of production and subsistence belong to the community
    2. any social, economic, or political movement or doctrine aimed at achieving such a society
    3. ( usually capital ) Marxism Marxism-Leninism See also socialism a political movement based upon the writings of Marx that considers history in terms of class conflict and revolutionary struggle, resulting eventually in the victory of the proletariat and the establishment of a socialist order based on public ownership of the means of production
    4. ( usually capital ) a social order or system of government established by a ruling Communist Party, esp in the former Soviet Union
    5. chiefly ( US ) ( often capital ) any leftist political activity or thought, esp when considered to be subversive
    6. communal living; communalism
     
         

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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by GenKiDama View Post
    the actual ideals of communism isn't actually that bad, theoretically everyone gets the exact same and there is no rich or poor, but all equal and everything is owned by the state which is very different to the likes of america and people don't like change. Many americans probably don't know what communism actually is, they just link it to the red threat which is automatically bad in the eyes of americans,

    ^^^^^ pretty much
     
         

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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    the problem with this is that some people are just to greedy .... this is y they dont like communism ... communism will only work if people are selfless and dont put that extra bit of money in there pocket .... people in this day and age are way to greedy
     
         

  9. #9
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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    There were bad parts... but there were good parts to it as well.
    I take as example one of the biggest communist countries besides Russia. My country. Romania.

    People did dislike the system at that time, but when they got to this system, fairly said it was better than.

    Yes, food was rationalized, you had to stay in line for a bread, a bottle of milk or something like this, but never, anyone had the problem of not getting any. I haven't heard one person telling me in the communist days of Ceausescu they died of hunger.

    Now, after the whole "democracy" system came, everyone got their liberty. But where this liberty took us?

    From the no. 1 granary of Europe which Romania was at that time, now is procuring grains from other countries because the whole system of agriculture fell.

    From the country with the most owners, we got to the country with the most people losing their home and have to live in rent.

    From the country that took you off the streets and put you in a manufacture or something, whatever, gave you a job, we got to the country where you can barely find a job.

    Now you find families literally starving, thing that never happened with communism.

    We had the best irrigation system, now we don't have any.

    All that freedom that was given to us, or so they say, it was turned into corruption and politicians turned this prosperous country into ashes.

    Few actually admit that it was better on those times and that actually killing Ceausescu was a coup-d'etat a la Uchiha, lol, only that they didn't kill everyone.

    Few actually knew about this, because the competitive politicians made it look like Ceausescu was the bad guy because he keeps everyone in a leash.

    Thing that if you ask me and many others, yes it was bad up to a certain point, but necessary. This country needed something like this.

    Now that we have leaders like these, this country has rotten and it's in big trouble.

    So yes, for Romania communism was better and every normal people that lived on that time will tell you that.

    Of course, there were those who fought in '89 but they fought for an ideal that wasn't going to be accomplished later on.

    Those poeple who fought and died in December '89 died for nothing, like Ceausescu died as well, because the games were made by the "clever boys" from 89 - 90 till today and we got to the point that we will be like some Brasilian cities (watch Ciudad de Deus - City of God and you'll understand it = this is what Romania is turning in).
     
         
    Last edited by Chatte; 11-14-2012 at 04:30 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    If you want to know why the communist movement started you have to kinda know about the implications the people thought it would have in their life. Communism or Marxism is the idea that people are the product of their society and people cant change unless society changes (not unlike Christianity which is the idea that people cant change without excepting Christ). So a whole bunch of people living in the slums of the USSR post WWI saw this as the logical next step to capitalism.

    But it doesnt work about everyone in the country getting an equal share is someone always has to be on top, the people who are working their asses off have no way of moving ahead of the people who dont show up for work, and basically everything is regulated by the government.

    If you want to learn more I suggest you research Marxism as opposed to Communism... the search results you get for communism are normally bias and skewed. Plus with Marxist make some interesting points
     
         

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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    i know a bit about communism(not enough to debate though)

    but my question is this

    What gives the right to the Govt to play robin hood(in your own words)?

    Assume i'm guy who runs a family business which has around 250+ employees who are all well paid and insured
    now what obligation do i have to them to share my profit with them....
    they work in my company for which they get paid fare if they are not satisfied they can leave
    any surplus profit i get is due to the trademark my grandfather and father created
    and the initial investment to start the bussiness came from my great grand dad
    i'm with full rights to keep to myself the profit i make apart from paying the labors(no exploitations there)
    why should the ownership of the company which has been in my family for generations be turned into a public rather than individual(me)??
    do you agree??
     
         

  12. #12
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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    In a nutshell, Its not really bad. True Communism which was thoerized by Marx has actually more benefits than it does downfalls. I figure if everyone resorted to communism it would be alot better than it is today with "Diplomacy".......smh america.
     
         

  13. #13
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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Uchiha View Post
    i know a bit about communism(not enough to debate though)

    but my question is this

    What gives the right to the Govt to play robin hood(in your own words)?

    Assume i'm guy who runs a family business which has around 250+ employees who are all well paid and insured
    now what obligation do i have to them to share my profit with them....
    they work in my company for which they get paid fare if they are not satisfied they can leave
    any surplus profit i get is due to the trademark my grandfather and father created
    and the initial investment to start the bussiness came from my great grand dad
    i'm with full rights to keep to myself the profit i make apart from paying the labors(no exploitations there)
    why should the ownership of the company which has been in my family for generations be turned into a public rather than individual(me)??
    do you agree??
    Well in a capitalist society that's fine if you the owner in a company keeps its profits. but in a communist society, more than likely, the government will own that business, take the profit, and pay for labor. its just the difference in governments, its a different "law of the land". communism often has heavy influence in business while capitalist prefer little government intervention, if any
     
         

  14. #14
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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    The point with communism is that everybody will get the same amount of money and there will be less of pour ppl, but almost all the examples of communism are bad, because the state screws up by for example taking most of ppls money.
     
         

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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yerrina View Post
    I don't know enough to answer you, but I know enough to recognize that Communism, Stalinism, and Socialism are not the same thing, and they're often used interchangeably.
    Exacta. There are differences; major differences.
    Reading doesn't hurt, people!

    Quote Originally Posted by YowYan View Post
    Russia is direct fascism.
    USA is indirect fascism.
    Was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kage Jake View Post
    Most americans when they hear the word Communism, Stalin, soviet, Cuba's life style, war ready korea comes to mind. They tend to think that the government will be holding them by the balls. They seem to not distinguish the difference between communism, totalitarian, and socialism. I live in the u.s and can easily tell. I honestly believe this country could use some socialism to help balance it since capitalism is starting to fail.
    Yep. Some proper Unions and tools for 'em would do the U.S. a world of good, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by gameove View Post
    1. advocacy of a classless society in which private ownership has been abolished and the means of production and subsistence belong to the community
    2. any social, economic, or political movement or doctrine aimed at achieving such a society
    3. ( usually capital ) Marxism Marxism-Leninism See also socialism a political movement based upon the writings of Marx that considers history in terms of class conflict and revolutionary struggle, resulting eventually in the victory of the proletariat and the establishment of a socialist order based on public ownership of the means of production
    4. ( usually capital ) a social order or system of government established by a ruling Communist Party, esp in the former Soviet Union
    5. chiefly ( US ) ( often capital ) any leftist political activity or thought, esp when considered to be subversive
    6. communal living; communalism
    I'm especially fond of the idea of abolishing private ownership.
     
         

  16. #16
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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by peteriscoo View Post
    Well in a capitalist society that's fine if you the owner in a company keeps its profits. but in a communist society, more than likely, the government will own that business, take the profit, and pay for labor. its just the difference in governments, its a different "law of the land". communism often has heavy influence in business while capitalist prefer little government intervention, if any
    thats what i'm trying to say if we switch over to communism i would have to make my company(which was in my family for years) a public sector company ...i would be paid salary just as any other CEO would and all other profits would go to the govt
    and yes the labors would get a bit better salary
    i dont see the point in this and how it is right
     
         

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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Uchiha View Post
    thats what i'm trying to say if we switch over to communism i would have to make my company(which was in my family for years) a public sector company ...i would be paid salary just as any other CEO would and all other profits would go to the govt
    and yes the labors would get a bit better salary
    i dont see the point in this and how it is right
    Well yeah if you're a CEO of course you wouldnt want the government telling you what to do. But, if you're dirt poor and living in the slums and some guy starts preaching about Marxism and the end of the lower class you might be more inclined to support this type of government
     
         

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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    Depends on what you mean. Carl Marx's fundamental basis for communism is basically the perfect plan;however, when there is an attempt to put it into practice the leaders of the communist goverment get either power hungry Od greedy and turn it into a dictstorship where the masses suffer and the political elite rule. For example Soviet Russia: Joseph Stalin ruled as a dictator similar to Hitler except he didnt commit grand genocide. His enemies were sent to the Gulag in Siberia to die.

    End result: Perfectly practiced communism is truly s good form of government as it goes back to the concept of everyone trading their good for someone else's service, and no one can control others except the government which if following the rules makes it even for everybody. Sadly every communist society turns into a regime run dictatorship....though the closest to being successful would be China, and they still have some issues like relocating Cititizens for the Bejing Olympics lol
     
         

  19. #19
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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by peteriscoo View Post
    Well yeah if you're a CEO of course you wouldnt want the government telling you what to do. But, if you're dirt poor and living in the slums and some guy starts preaching about Marxism and the end of the lower class you might be more inclined to support this type of government
    you dont see the whole picture ...

    yes many big CEO's and companies are ripping of poor labors with less salary i'm not denying that<----------this is the problem

    but the solution to this problem is to remove that particular CEO and take that organisation into the govt wing as a public sector organisation

    NOT to turn to communism where every organisation including the good ones (like our family business) are turned into a public sector company
     
         
    Last edited by Anakin Skywalker; 11-14-2012 at 05:19 PM.

  20. #20
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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    It's because freedom is usually VERY restricted under Communism, which happens due to the leaders sometime becoming dictators.
     
         
    Last edited by Riker Slade; 11-14-2012 at 05:41 PM.

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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by GenKiDama View Post
    the actual ideals of communism isn't actually that bad, theoretically everyone gets the exact same and there is no rich or poor, but all equal and everything is owned by the state which is very different to the likes of america and people don't like change. Many americans probably don't know what communism actually is, they just link it to the red threat which is automatically bad in the eyes of americans,
    this guy said it to perfection
     
         

  22. #22
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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    Best analogy is the carrot in front of the horse. Capitalism puts a carrot in front of all the horses and as they go they get just enough of it to sustain themselves throughout their life. All the horses know they have a chance to get that carrot, the whole thing, and be extremely wealthy or at least well off. Some of the horses work extra hard and pull a lot more weight, so they do actually get a nice chunk eventually, but not without working so hard that they left all the other horses behind.

    Okay, so they all see this happen every once in a while; when it happens, it gives everyone else the hope that one day they'll break away and get the whole carrot. It's more like a dream, but keeps everyone going just that much more, especially when they were starting to lose hope and think the carrot was impossible to get. On top of that, their all getting something in the meantime so they have a great starting point to begin with because the pieces they are earning have elevated them above someone that isn't earning.

    Now, communism and socialism is where everybody gets pieces of the carrot no matter what. One horse that is pulling their full weight gets just as much of the carrot as someone not pulling their full weight. So what do the horses do? Nothing. There's no prize to be had, there's no reason to pull at all since you'll get the same amount as the next horse whether you work hard or not. This system fails. There might be flaws with capitalism, but at least it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kage Jake View Post
    Most americans when they hear the word Communism, Stalin, soviet, Cuba's life style, war ready korea comes to mind. They tend to think that the government will be holding them by the balls. They seem to not distinguish the difference between communism, totalitarian, and socialism. I live in the u.s and can easily tell. I honestly believe this country could use some socialism to help balance it since capitalism is starting to fail.
    Capitalism is only starting to fail because socialism is being introduced.
     
         

  23. #23
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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Uchiha View Post
    you dont see the whole picture ...

    yes many big CEO's and companies are ripping of poor labors with less salary i'm not denying that<----------this is the problem

    but the solution to this problem is to remove that particular CEO and take that organisation into the govt wing as a public sector organisation

    NOT to turn to communism where every organisation including the good ones (like our family business) are turned into a public sector company
    As a CEO in the United States, you have the power to, without wanring, remove another individuals' income base. You can do so for personal or professional reasons, but the fact remains that you leave an individual to starve and die simply because you feel that it's the ideal solution. You also contribute to the growing amount of unemployed and poor individuals in the United States.
    Communism is a solution that solves both problems. In a society practising perfect Marxism, a 'CEO' doesn't exist as such, it's simply another administrative position. A 'Communist CEO' doesn't have the power to fire anyone, instead he's able to submit a report to an impartial party, whom can make the decision to move the worker in question to another job.
    Communism is about teamwork, collaboration and communication. The worker in question would also have the option of going back to school to aim for another job, for example.
    'What about those who work twice as much as normal people?' you might ask. Well, there are no people like that in a Communist society. There are enough adults in every nation to support the country's economy simply by working 37-45 hours a week. The positions that require more hours than that are simply split into two, or are granted an assistant. Everyone gets a job, which allows us to 'slack off' in some areas, if so to speak.
    Of course there are some jobs that most people would rather not do, but those will simply be split into several pieces, forming thousands upon thousands of part-time jobs that the 'generation in education' can easily handle in their spare-time.
    Communism: it's a Party!
     
         

  24. #24
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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Kelvin View Post
    As a CEO in the United States, you have the power to, without wanring, remove another individuals' income base. You can do so for personal or professional reasons, but the fact remains that you leave an individual to starve and die simply because you feel that it's the ideal solution. You also contribute to the growing amount of unemployed and poor individuals in the United States.
    Communism is a solution that solves both problems. In a society practising perfect Marxism, a 'CEO' doesn't exist as such, it's simply another administrative position. A 'Communist CEO' doesn't have the power to fire anyone, instead he's able to submit a report to an impartial party, whom can make the decision to move the worker in question to another job.
    Communism is about teamwork, collaboration and communication. The worker in question would also have the option of going back to school to aim for another job, for example.
    'What about those who work twice as much as normal people?' you might ask. Well, there are no people like that in a Communist society. There are enough adults in every nation to support the country's economy simply by working 37-45 hours a week. The positions that require more hours than that are simply split into two, or are granted an assistant. Everyone gets a job, which allows us to 'slack off' in some areas, if so to speak.
    Of course there are some jobs that most people would rather not do, but those will simply be split into several pieces, forming thousands upon thousands of part-time jobs that the 'generation in education' can easily handle in their spare-time.
    Communism: it's a Party!
    If I may say, I think people are afraid of the whole "Heart Surgeon being payed the same wages as a Janitor" situation. While both are equally important jobs, the former requires a very specific skill set not available to the general public. I'll admit, I don't know how Communism works in the field of "wages between different types of jobs", but, I remember my friend saying something about a merit based Communistic system.

    For example, all Heart Surgeons make say, $150. Depending on who "works hardest", that wage increases. Same with all the others.

    This encourages people to work hard, and rewards them for doing so, without breaking the fundamental system of equality of Communism - if someone is better off, it is because they worked harder...

    ...And I know I explained it horribly, something akin to a capitalistic system, and I also know that I probably just contributed nothing of merit to this thread.

    But, I'll do this in response to the OP's statement: As an American, I do realize that Communism is a perfect system in theory. However, because of the element of human corruption, I don't believe that it is the best governmental form in practice. Neither, though, do I think our capitalistic economic view is correct either, and there is a large amount that is wrong with our government. One thing people don't realize, is that some Socialism is a good thing.
     
         

  25. #25
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    Re: What is wrong with communism?

    Communism was aimed to distribute all resources equally to all people

    but it was abused by the leaders , it was enforced while it should've been democratically debated

    the red army in the early 20th century was marching onto each city demolishing all of the Tsars followers.

    it was a structure bound to collapse , and is collapsing in China , has already collapsed In Russia and Cuba

    globalization is taking place too rapidly and people start realizing their difference from each other , thus there is not chance for Socialism to win in the battle against Capitalism


    as for USSR , the reason it collapsed was due to the Famous "Perestroika" , in which Gorbachev has miscalculated the capacity of his economy




    IT is a Utopia bound to fail
     
         

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