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  1. #1
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    New Rule [For Staff Consideration]

    Hey, it's been awhile, I know... (If you aren't Staff/prior-Staff, I'm not interested in your answer, sorry. This is directed towards the Staff for their consideration as they have the correct foundational knowledge to support their answer.)

    Anyway, throughout all of my interactions on the base, I've had something in mind regarding the rules: "Encouraging Others to Break the Rules."

    The closest rule that would be applicable to this is obviously "trolling," but personally I wonder if that even cuts it. Sure, some say it in passing as a joke, but it seems quite ignorant and blatantly disrespectful to me when another member even suggests that a member should violate the rules.

    The reason I bring this up? Because some people are foolish enough to actually listen to those suggestions and do it. Not everyone (sadly, but truthfully) has read the rules and I've watched people do it thinking it's a good idea. Now I know the one's suggesting it don't always go un-punished, but some awareness might be good. It happens more often then you might think and I don't think the person should only be punished if the other member actually does it...

    Thoughts? (No rush so take a free second or two to think it over)

    -Sveti
     
         

  2. #2
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    Re: New Rule [For Staff Consideration]

    I am not a Staff member, and have no interest in being a mod or admin. But I will respond to your Suggestion, even if you ignore it.

    Its a foolish suggestion really. Its the persons fault for the own individual behavior. The people that encourage being a troll or encourage others to break rules should just get the same punishment, even less any punishment at all. If a person is foolish enough to follow along with breaking the rules. Then so be it. Its their fault, not the person encouraging them.
     
         

  3. #3
    Senior Member -S-'s Avatar
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    Re: New Rule [For Staff Consideration]

    I don't care if you're not interested in my answer... I'll post anyway.

    If someone tells you to go and break rules, you are stupid enough to even listen and you deserve to be infracted.

    However, even if you are infracted, you can report the person who told you to do so, it doesn't mean you'll get away with the problems you caused, it just means that the person who suggested the idea will get infracted too.

    I'm not sure if mods want to go around investigating; after all, it's why we have the reporting system. You should know Sveti... you were a mod once.
     
         

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    Re: New Rule [For Staff Consideration]

    You can't just tell us to not comment, when you create an thread; everyone is able to comment whatever you wish for it or not.

    On topic, those two said it.
     
         

  5. #5
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    Re: New Rule [For Staff Consideration]

    I was an admin back in 2007, does that count ?
     
         

  6. #6
    Kyudaime Kazekage Teño's Avatar
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    Re: New Rule [For Staff Consideration]

    Like everybody says.. Nobody cares if you want our suggestion or not. you post it publlicly your going to get a public answer. but the suggestion overall is stupid. This is something thats been going on since they made NB. Its not trolling is being increased.. Its just there

    Overall. Trolling is Trolling. Infract them.. go on with life.. Not a homicide investigation.
     
         

  7. #7
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    Re: New Rule [For Staff Consideration]

    I will be blunt.

    If you are not interested in hearing anyone's response, please use the Private messaging facility available to you. No need to make threads.
     
         

  8. #8
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    Re: New Rule [For Staff Consideration]

    Well since I'm a staff members, maybe I can shed some light on this. I want to start by letting you know that I get where you're comming from. It's frustrating to watch trolls provoke people into misconduct. However, every member is ultimatly responsible for his or her actions. In life, if someone calls you stupid and you punch them, you will be the one to go to jail for assault. If you try and tell a judge that you punched someone because they called you stupid, they would most likely tell you to grow up. It's the same way here. You may be provoked by many people, but every member is still accountable for thier own actions. Period.

    Your suggestion was in no way "stupid" and the people that suggested as much need to start thinking about how they would feel if someone had said something similar about thier suggestions. It's a shame none of the above posters could respect the original poster's request.
     
         
    Last edited by Scary Yamato; 11-15-2012 at 05:40 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: New Rule [For Staff Consideration]

    i agree of course with the above poster. i have been modding sites like this else where for a while. there is one thing that stuck with me.

    "DO NOT FEED THE TROLL" pay it no attention it will die miserably
     
         

  10. #10
    Senior Member Tsunade no Sama's Avatar
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    Re: New Rule [For Staff Consideration]

    Sveti....what would you suggest they do? Infract both parties? Thinking logically, I know you mean some sort of system like in school where if you cheat from someone's paper both parties receive half the grade whether or not they agreed to the activity. That would initially dissuade any such behavior but it will only lead to a place where I don't think NB would like to go. I think your suggestion needs a little more thought but I actually get where you are coming from. Forums work a bit different than real life though you would think it would carry over quite nicely don't you think? Anyways, thank you for taking a step towards the direction we should be heading. Acknowledging we have a problem.
     
         

  11. #11
    Kyudaime Kazekage Teño's Avatar
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    Re: New Rule [For Staff Consideration]

    Quote Originally Posted by Scary Yamato View Post
    Well since I'm a staff members, maybe I can shed some light on this. I want to start by letting you know that I get where you're comming from. It's frustrating to watch trolls provoke people into misconduct. However, every member is ultimatly responsible for his or her actions. In life, if someone calls you stupid and you punch them, you will be the one to go to jail for assault. If you try and tell a judge that you punched someone because they called you stupid, they would most likely tell you to grow up. It's the same way here. You may be provoked by many people, but every member is still accountable for thier own actions. Period.

    Your suggestion was in no way "stupid" and the people that suggested as much need to start thinking about how they would feel if someone had said something similar about thier suggestions. It's a shame none of the above posters could respect the original poster's request.
    Stupid was slightly a too strong of a word.. Maybe.. Uneeded. And the reason ppl dont respect his request more is simply because of
    "(If you aren't Staff/prior-Staff, I'm not interested in your answer, sorry)" A better way to went with that is VM or PM a mod/admin and have them do that in the Mod/admin HQ. He was once a Mod so he should know how things goes
     
         

  12. #12
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    Re: New Rule [For Staff Consideration]

    Quote Originally Posted by General Teno View Post
    Stupid was slightly a too strong of a word.. Maybe.. Uneeded. And the reason ppl dont respect his request more is simply because of
    "(If you aren't Staff/prior-Staff, I'm not interested in your answer, sorry)" A better way to went with that is VM or PM a mod/admin and have them do that in the Mod/admin HQ. He was once a Mod so he should know how things goes
    People did not respect his request due to spite. You all felt that he has deemed your opinion as unworthy of his attention and in return his request was ignored. When in reality, it was not that you were unworthy of his attention, but the fact that non-staff members do not have the authority to make the neccesary changes if need be, or have had to deal with the circumstances that arise from such situations.
     
         

  13. #13
    Sveti's Avatar
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    Re: New Rule [For Staff Consideration]

    Quote Originally Posted by Scary Yamato View Post
    Well since I'm a staff members, maybe I can shed some light on this. I want to start by letting you know that I get where you're comming from. It's frustrating to watch trolls provoke people into misconduct. However, every member is ultimatly responsible for his or her actions. In life, if someone calls you stupid and you punch them, you will be the one to go to jail for assault. If you try and tell a judge that you punched someone because they called you stupid, they would most likely tell you to grow up. It's the same way here. You may be provoked by many people, but every member is still accountable for thier own actions. Period.

    Your suggestion was in no way "stupid" and the people that suggested as much need to start thinking about how they would feel if someone had said something similar about thier suggestions. It's a shame none of the above posters could respect the original poster's request.

    SY, thanks for taking the time to reply. I agree wholeheartedly that everyone is responsible for their own actions, but I just find those who encourage others to break rules also need to be responsible for their actions. In actuality, what I meant by my suggestion is that encouraging others to break the rules should be considered breaking a rule as well. To me, it's like trying to start a fight and it's openly going against the purpose of this site. It's just something that I've noticed even though the ones who do it tend to find themselves with restricted access for other reasons. I just want to clarify that I don't mean to absolve the ones who listen, as, they should have some common sense; I'm focusing more on the "trouble-makers."

    A secondary way of looking at it is my experience with crowd-control tactics: when there are a number of upset people located together, one or two might be spurring the rest on and it's important to identify those individuals and remove them. It's not that the rest of them are too "stupid" to stop themselves, it's that there may be emotions at play which cloud their immediate judgment. (Anger is one that I witness on the base often and it usually clouds judgment). <- That is essentially what trolling is all about, but it's not always recognized that the troll is trying to get others to break the rules in addition to breaking rules themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scary Yamato View Post
    People did not respect his request due to spite. You all felt that he has deemed your opinion as unworthy of his attention and in return his request was ignored. When in reality, it was not that you were unworthy of his attention, but the fact that non-staff members do not have the authority to make the neccesary changes if need be, or have had to deal with the circumstances that arise from such situations.
    You nailed it. I mean no disrespect towards non-staff, but the reality is, this is a suggestion for the staff to deem "good" or "bad." Sure, I could have used a "private message" but you can only include so many other members, and then not everyone sees the individual replies and I might get 4-5 different answers. (I did think this through) Granted, I know that the true discussion wouldn't be visible to myself, but an answer might be relayed. Thanks again SY. ^^
     
         

  14. #14
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    Re: New Rule [For Staff Consideration]

    Quote Originally Posted by Scary Yamato View Post
    People did not respect his request due to spite. You all felt that he has deemed your opinion as unworthy of his attention and in return his request was ignored. When in reality, it was not that you were unworthy of his attention, but the fact that non-staff members do not have the authority to make the neccesary changes if need be, or have had to deal with the circumstances that arise from such situations.
    Spite... I know another word for it, common amongst NB.

    Regardless, SY is right. This is not an issue where any member had any reason to give an input in. Rules and Rule enforcing fall upon the staff's jurisdiction. And, as such, replying to such a thread may even be considered spam as its not directed towards a member but rather the staff.

    Regardless of that Sveti, we already infract people under the "troll" aspect. Inducing others to troll is trolling in itself and thus is infractable. And, even if we don't have a section of the global rules that specifically says its not allowed, its implied that making or leading others to break the rules of the forum is, in itself, rule breaking. The problem is not the rules but rather finding the ones who actually induce others to break them. Finding the infractor is quite easy most of the time, finding the person who might have lead him (if any) to break the rules is not.

    I will, however, link this to the rest of the gang. Tks man ^^
     
         

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