Who was the best water release (suiton) user?

[tracytracy22]

Mei is a joke. Her water style is childs play compared to Tobirama. She couldnt even get the jutsu off in time to save the kages from Madara's fire attack so Tsunade sacrificed her self to obsorb the attack. Tobirama could do water style with only one hand sign and could summon larger amounts of water that no one else could. If a ninja came along better I'm sure Kishi would make a fuss about that character.

what she's shown is more impressive than anything tobirama has shown. Like I said, she did exactly what tobirama did but to a much greater scale. And so what if she couldnt pull of another jutsu - I dont really think that has anything to do with skill. She was probably out of chakra. And from what I can tell, Mei used her water jutsu with one hand sign - I doubt she would have made the 40+ hand seals. It just looked too fast. And she did summon large amounts of water....

I'm not saying that she's better than him...all I'm saying is that IT COULD be a possibility...

[Silverblade]

Obito

Yes. To get WOOD Release you must have water release as well. Don't spew that BUT BUT DNA. No. He used Earth Release before. He can use Water Release as well. His Suiton would be more powerful than Tobirama due to the enhanced body and such.

[Omnipotent]

Obito

Yes. To get WOOD Release you must have water release as well. Don't spew that BUT BUT DNA. No. He used Earth Release before. He can use Water Release as well. His Suiton would be more powerful than Tobirama due to the enhanced body and such.

Okay

[TurrinB]

Kisame for sure.

[Omnipotent]

Kisame for sure.

Are you sure? Please explain why you think so.

[USSJ Future Trunks]

all of tobiramas hype depends on his one hand seal thing. but look at this http://www.mangareader.net/93-261-4/...apter-256.html and this http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/577/4 two ninjas whove done identical feats

. Once again, he was noted to be the most powerful shinobi in Konoha during the First Shinobi World War by Danzo based on his suiton affinity alone.

you made that up out of your ass. no one including danzo ever mentioned tobirama being hokage because of suiton. of all of tobiramas peers in that era, all they mentioned was his edo tensei. that is his main ability. alongside sensing which was praised by his brother

To be able to do a Suiton in an area with no water and pretty good magnitude...
I haven't seen any Suiton users doing it.

yes you have. but your in denial and choose to ignore mei doing the same thing

Tobirama could also turn the air around him into water.

and yet has never done so

The reason why Kisame can use any type of water jutsus including those large scale water jutsus It's because of the chakra that he steals from his enemy thus making his chakra bigger/stronger so he will never ran out

he hadnt absorbed anything when he used a large scale suiton vs team gai. gai even noted kisame is at his strongest when near a water source

Tobirama is the Second Hokage and related to the Senju bloodline.

irrelevant.

Tobirama earned this title because he can use extremely large scale water jutsus without even needing water around him.

no he didnt. you literally made that up, and mei did the same exact thing

So as long as he swam after his opponents they could never get out the Sphere. Which concludes it was not that powerful just annoying.

how isnt that powerful?

Weakened Edo Tobirama managed to nullify the Sandaime Hokage's katon jutsu

hiruzen was weakened as well...

whereas Kisame failed to kill fodder like Tenten even when she was carrying something on her back.

as i recall, kisame beat the living hell out of bee. oro didnt kill sakura. so hes weak right?

The problem with comparing these two ninja in terms of water techniques, is that Tobirama has only been presented to us in Part I.
I'm sure we've all noticed that Kishimoto has begun to walk the path of DBZ, and this manga has become flashy, with overdone and overpowered jutsu; so its no wonder Kisame in Part II would outdo Tobirama in Part I.

and those very same part 1 downplayers have called hiruzen weak because we only saw him in part 1 too

Tobirama could make water molecules from thin air by combining H2O and C02.

no he made a suiton wall by spitting water made from his chakra

Tobirama is probably more SKILLED than Kisame in Suiton, and if he ever learned the Super Shark Bomb and they clashed their water sharks (that sounded naughty) Tobirama'd win.

tobiramas nowhere near as skilled and if he learnt kisames jutsus he wouldnt have the chakra levels to match kisames scale and power

Tobirama is grtr than any1, he's a greter suiton user

no he isnt

tobirama can use large scale water jutsu with the air around him, from his mouth, an with less hand signs if any then any other water release user ever.

wrong. mei and kisame both used high level suiton with only one hand seal http://www.mangareader.net/93-261-4/naruto/chapter-256.html[/url] and [url]http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/577/4

And Tobirama is a senju whom are known for large pools of chakra so actually Kisame having more chakra then him is more unlikely then you think.

if thats the case its even more fodderising and embarassing that tobirama cant make suiton nearly on the level of kisame who made an entire lake with no effort wheras tobirama was powerless against hiruzens doton wall.

I think its funny how some many people on this thread keep saying its silly to use tobirama or to say he's better then kisame because we've never seen him fight. But the same people wouldnt think twice to say Hashirama> dam near everyone in naruto smh

they are hypocrites

tobirama he was best at suiton
he can do very water jutsus without any hand signs

and yet the only time he used suiton was with hand seals. way to make shit up

Tobirama is the best cause that's what the manga states

no it isnt

- I've never seen a suiton "attack" from Kisame sourceless. He essentially creates water before performing his attacks, but Tobirama can use suiton attacks sourceless

tobirama made water from his mouth, like darui and kakashi did. mei did but with even less effort and more skill. kisame made an entire lake from his mouth

Orochimaru's edo tensei had no problems, his edos were not weaker

kabuto stated multiple times he surpassed oro's ET

- He only needs one handseal to perform suiton suijinheki which normally requires something like 20handseals, which shows his mastery in the element

mei did the same thing and kisame did an even higher level jutsu with one seal

tobirama was hyped out to be the best suiton user ever though.

no he wasnt

Now we know, that Hashirama was the most powerful Shinobi, far above the level of all current Kage together and with powers anyone in the series is seeking for.

no kabuto or obito is

Hiruzen noted that hashirama's moukoton was the same,

scans?

What part of toying with hiruzen is misunderstood? Orochimaru could have killed old hiruzen a long time ago, he never wanted to end the fight quickly... he wanted to torture him.. that's the whole point... and because of that hiruzen got to take his hands away..

excuses. nothing was stopping tobirama flooding half the barrier.

who can use suiton attacks without water source, something i've never seen Kisame capable to do.

its pretty much all hes been doing in his two major battles with gai and bee.

isame created such a large scale water jutsu but that water was from his mouth which basically create out of chakra.. and we all know that it takes much more ability to create the water outside the body than to manipulate what is already available or expel it from their mouths

creating suiton outside the body is impossible. no one has ever done this. same with katon. madaras the best katon user and even he must produce it from his mouth

he has shown more jutsus that Tobirama but that doesn't prove he has more skill that the Second Hokage..

so versatility isnt skill?

he may not have a biggest suiton-based feat, yet he certainly has the most advance.. we are yet to see another shinobi who can create water and perform such a high level suiton jutsu from the water molecules in the air.. both Kisame and Mei have yet to demonstrate such feat.

tobirama made suiton by spitting it from his mouth. mei and kisame did identical feats. in the case of mei, she did the exact same thing move for move, with one hand seal

That's why i want to see Kisame be able to create suiton attacks without water source to accept him as the best suiton user,

http://www.mangareader.net/93-261-4/naruto/chapter-256.html and so he has

Tobirama was the second-best of the Senju clan in its' prime based on suiton mastery alon

no one cares as theres no other prominent senju to compare to besides his brother

By hype and character statements(like the anbu) etc it seems that Tobirama was the best suiton user.

no it doesnt. nothing suggested that

what he did is he created water from his chakra are releasing it in his mouth..

and so did tobirama. read the manga

when it is clear that Kisame can't perform jutsus done by Tobirama..

kisame has jutsus so advanced they are beyond tobiramas wildest dreams like water dome and great shark bullet

Tobirama has exactly showed that by creating water justus in a manner that none since him has displayed..

mei did the exact same thing as him. EXACT SAME

Kabuto stated that Orochimaru perfected Edo Tensei.

he actually didnt because he cant bring back hokages at full power

Kisame may have displayed that wider array of suiton techniques, but does not necessarily makes him the best.. Tobirama's feats are limited as we all know, yet on that very limited showings, he has shown mastery of water techniques better than anyone in the series..

no he hasnt. mei has. she did the exact same thing tobirama did, only on a bigger scale. and kisame has the greatest suiton power and skil out of anyone in history

View Post
Tobirama could use that water dragon move with a single hand sign, and normaly it requires like 44, He is without a doubt the best water user.

mei did the exact same thing with greater ease

Tobirama was stated to create water out of thin air

and yet never did so. he spat it out of his mouth like everyone else.

Kisame had to summon the water (from his mouth). He didn't make the water appear out of nowhere. There is a difference

the latter is impossible

Tobirama was said to be the best water user in the world.

not once did anyone ever say this meaning you have literally made shit up

straight off of narutopedia

the manga never said that.narutopedia couldnt provide a single worthy citation for that claim as you must have noticed

Kisame's use of water jutsu isn't all unique, they are indeed far more powerful, but does not differ much from others.. this is mainly because of his raw chakra reserves.. but not because of his mastery

nope. you made that up. most jutsu requires skil as much as large chakra

being able to survive against the Gold and Silver Brothers (take note, they are Kumo Ninjas meaning, most possible raiton user with Kyubi chakra)

not impressive/ he had 2nd raikage with him and sakura survived orochimaru. does that mean shes kage level?

kisame has nothing on tobirama when it comes to water, never have I seen anyone say anything about his water releas

so someone must comment on his suiton for it to impress you? ok then i guess kamui isnt impressive even though barely anyone but kakashi himself hyped it. the ONLY hype tobirama got from his suiton is using high level moves away from a body of water. which kisame has done!

he only thing that makes him a threat is the fact that he can suck chakra, and his high reserves, other than that though he's nothing special.

kisames high level in all areas. ninjutsu skill and strength (water clones, water dome,water prison), physical strength, chakra reserves, speed, versatility, kenjutsu

. Kisame doesn't have good water mastery, he just has a lot of chakra to dump behind his attacks.

no such thing. if you can do a jutsu with ease with one hand seal including suiton away from water, obviously your the most powerful and skilled suiton user in history

if kisame couldn't absorb chakra his water release moves wouldn't really be deadly,

yes they would because hes naturally powerful in suiton without it. he didnt really absorb anything from team gai and still pulled out various strong moves

manga stated tobirama was able to create water from thin air

all suiton comes from chakra moulding

said he was the worlds best at water release,

no it didnt

tobirama was able to take a jutsu that required more handsigns than any other and condensed it to one,

so did mei and kisame http://www.mangareader.net/93-261-4/...apter-256.html. also kishi rarely shows all the seals except in water dragon and dead demon seal and possibly the seals to cancel ET. most of the time it only takes one movement

is water release was hyped, no one else I can think of had this hype on suiton

any kage level. the anbu said "i cant believe hes using high level suiton in a place with no water". darui, mei and kisame all did the same thing

Tobirama is actually winning his fights with water, while kisame wins through power, stamina, and absorbing the opponents chakra, if there were a fight where he had to rely soley on water, without absorbing someones strength, I know he'd do worse than tobirama.

when did tobirama win a fight lol. in all honesty all thats truly been hyped about tobirama is his edo tensei and senju body. thats what he used to win fights and he used kenjutsu to kill izuna.

what was said of tobirama>>>>Mei

what was said about him? nothing. meis hype was such that tsunade used FTG on her so that she could beat madaras katons. making her the premier suiton user in the alliance

Wen kissame can do water techs with 1 hand

when did tobirama?

Tobirama was primarily known for his mastery of Water Release. He could perform powerful water-style techniques in areas that lacked bodies of water by creating his own water out of thin air or producing it from his mouth, and perform some of the most complex water-style techniques, such as the Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique, with a single hand seal. This amongst other reasons is why he is revered as the greatest known Water Release manipulator in the series.

This is taken from Cannon. Therefore Tobirama is dubbed the greatest Water style user.

narutopedia is not "canon". its fanfiction from fans who wrote it up there because they are liars. the statements that are true usually have a citation or source. that didnt.

tobirama is greater than kisame anytime anyplace

remind me when tobiramas feats surpassed kisame's.

not going to bother explaining what was already explained in the manga.

what was explained? that tobirama is vastly inferior ot kisame and mei?

Mei is a joke. Her water style is childs play compared to Tobirama

mei's water style is gigantic, and she used it with one hand seal. tobiramas suiton was powerless to break past hiruzens doton wall. mei was able to combine her water with raikages lightning, extinguish madara uchihas katons, and create walls as big as susano itself

, but before he got samehada there were no 1000 shark releases or whole lakes vomited out his mouth

how do you know?

Tobirama is stated to be the most powerful water style shinobi ever.

no he isnt. not once has this ever been established or stated anywhere in the manga. if your going to continue to make shit up, get out of this forum.

That means no one has surpassed him. The problem with people on this site is that you get all hyped over seeing someone battle and immediately want to make that person greater than those you haven't seen despite being told plainly that Tobirama is the greatest water jutsu user ever.

we werent lol

Tobirama> All water style shinobi including Kisame.

wrong. come to me when tobirama makes several water clones casually and an entire lake in the middle of a forest

Tobirama is a Senju also which means his chakra is huge. Kisame only has large chakra because of his sword. without that sword he is nothing.

without his sword he was fighting off and escaping from gai naruto aoba bee and yamato. even after taking a direct hirudora, he got back up, broke mokuton bonds, and summoned sharks to eat himself. prove kisame only has large chakra reserves because of samehada please.

kisame ran from fodder before he got samehada, tobirama was bad ass all his life, kisame demonstrated no large chakra reserves or water mastery before he got samehada

kisame has naturally huge chakra reserves as stated by nagato. and he couldnt show high water mastery becasue he wasnt shown in an all out fight. tobirama got defeated by 20 fodder. and kin/gin during an attempted coup. kisame only truly lost one fight, against naruto aoba yamato bee and gai



QUOTE]it's well known tobirama uses one seal while kisame uses 44, I think this implies a higher understanding of water release. [/QUOTE]never has kisame ever used more than 1 seal for his suiton moves.

I think it's safe to say that kisames strength isn't water release

which is why he made an entire lake before doing anything else vs team gai right?

Tobirama could do water style with only one hand sign and could summon larger amounts of water that no one else could

wrong. come to me when tobirama makes a water wall as big as susano or a water dome as big as a lake. mei and kisame > tobirama. mei and ksiame both did it with one hand seal too

furthermore the ONE time he fought an opponent with no chakra to feed off of, he loses,

he feeds off chakra no matter what. great shark bullet. plus it was gai, bee, naruto, aoba and kisames own sharks vs kisame alone

Best water user: Tobirama why? Because he can create water from thin air. or where there is no presence of water.

several peopel have already done this in part 2. even jounins like darui

Tobirame takes this easily .. Performing high level suiton jutsu without handseals or water nearby .. nobody can match that.

he quite clearly used handseals. read the manga. and yes people have matched that. come to me when tobirama makes a lake in the middle of a forest

I'll always go with Tobirama. Like the fact that he could summon water without any source of water nearby. Brilliant!

several shinobi have already done this. darui, kakashi, mei, kisame. even fodders vs madara uchiha

[Shikamaru101]

Going from feats, Kisame is. Yes, Tobirama has hype of his Water Release being the best, but all we have seen is one mediocre Water Style jutsu that was less than impressive. If we are still going by feats, Mei is second as she was able to extinguish Madara Uchiha's Fire Release. Uchiha's have been shown to have mastery over their Fire Release so this shows she has powerful water release, also able to form the handseal quickly and counter again with no body of water available.

[sulanis]

He was a legend for his water release skills!

Plus i think Tobirama would stomp the floor with Kisame!

[TheEvilOne]

1. Kisame
2. Mei
3. Tobirama

[USSJ Future Trunks]

View Post
Who can use water w/o any water by him? Tobirama. So IMO, he wins

kisame, darui, kakashi, mei

I think mei has surpassed tobirama.

which isnt difficult

was able to defeat the gold and silver brothers (barely)

despite it being stated at least 3 times they defeated him with implied ease?

View Post
tobirama senju. he was said to be able to create an entire ocean

where? and kisame has already done this

Tobirama shown to be second-best in the Senju clan, a clan rivaled only by the Uchiha clan; how can Tobirama not be a high-Kage level shinobi if he has to live up to that?

he doesnt. he rode his brother's coat tails and got destroyed by kin and gin

lso, his suiton is shown to be more powerful than even Hiruzen's katon (fire release) as it evaporated the flames

even kakashi and darui's suiton could have. mei's low kage level suiton put out madaras god tier katon

Tobirama, on the other hand, used his suiton and almost suffocated Hiruzen (after Hashirama gave him that nice combo).

no he didnt. his suiton was nullified completely by hiruzens doton wall. after that tobirama did nothing

Kisame is constantly referenced as an S-rank shinobi, never noted to be Kage-level.

choujuro referred to him as the tailless bijuu, and seven swordsman/akatsuki member is as good a title as kage. all akatsukis are kage level

i dont see why that wouldnt apply to tobirama who shares the same blood as him.

because it doesnt. look at kankuro compared to gaara. fugaku compared to sasuke. blood doesnt mean shit

Keeping in mind the 'best suiton user' without question it would have to be tobirama because he became the hokage for it

no he didnt, you made that up

Tobirama because he has the advantage of title, legacy and reputation.

so akatsuki member isnt equal to the title of kage?

why dont you give me some some proof that tobirama cant make an ocean out of nothing ? thats right you cant.. its because tobirama has no feats and lived around the same era as madara did.

what do you propose you do then? make shit up? if all he has is nothing then so be it

Tobirama is said to have been the greatest water style user

no he wasnt

[USSJ Future Trunks]

If he's hashirama's brother then he must be amazing

bullshit logic lol. in that case kankuro is kage level because his brother is

[NagazuDead]

Tobirama... hokage rank and best

[ROSH2]

I can't choose Kisame or Tobirama

[the eagle]

Tobirama is the best suiton user because he can use a water technique that requires alot of handseals (Water Dragon) with just one hand sign.Also he can use any suiton jutsu without a water source.

[Micho22]

Dont forget mei her suiton was powerful enough to counter the greatest katon user madara
Mei has also strong suiton jutsus

[Strict]

I would say Tobirama. Though he didn't show any remarkable feats, a fodder Anbu praised Tobiramas ability to create water without a source - being a "miracle" in the old series but an expected performance by any Suiton user in Shippuuden.

Damn, that rumor about Tobiramas impressive Suiton is nothing but a huge misconception. The fodder Anbu praised Tobirama to be a good Suiton user 'cause he's able to create water without a source.

That was the Jutsu of Tobirama, the Anbu referred to:

lmao, the Anbu is flashed from the idea, that Tobirama used such a "high level" of Suiton in a place where there is no water. That feat however is something every Suiton user can demonstrate at the current story...
Whether feats or hype, Tobirama is nowhere near the best Suiton user.

[Micho22]

Mei also was able to create huge waters without a water source against madaras powerful katon jutsu

[the last shinobi]

Kisame by feats.

Tobirama by hype



Did you forget when kisame flooded a desert against Gai and his team?

I agree with everything this guy said

[the last shinobi]

Obito

Yes. To get WOOD Release you must have water release as well. Don't spew that BUT BUT DNA. No. He used Earth Release before. He can use Water Release as well. His Suiton would be more powerful than Tobirama due to the enhanced body and such.

very good point sir

[USSJ Future Trunks]

Tobirama... hokage rank and best

in what way?

Tobirama is the best suiton user because he can use a water technique that requires alot of handseals (Water Dragon) with just one hand sign.Also he can use any suiton jutsu without a water source.

mei did the same thing. EXACTLY the same thing. and you ignored that for absolutely no reason except your a fanboy. using suiton without a water source is expected of elite jounins and kages

[the eagle]

in what way?
mei did the same thing. EXACTLY the same thing. and you ignored that for absolutely no reason except your a fanboy. using suiton without a water source is expected of elite jounins and kages

Me a Tobirama fanboy?Far from it Mei is also a good suiton user and so is Kisame.

[Omnipotent]

Seeing as a watered-down version of Tobirama was able to effortlessly counter Hiruzen's katon even without a nearby water source, and was immediately said to have been partaking in a Kage-level ninjutsu battle based on just one jutsu by ANBU-level shinobi (who even said that they'd never seen a battle of that magnitude before, even though it was only seconds into the fight), I'm going to have to give this to him.

I mean, we've seen the difference between a weakened Part 1 Hashirama's mokuton and Part 2 Hashirama's mokuton. Although there was likely not a proportional relationship, if Tobirama's suiton jump is even close to what Hashirama's mokuton jump was, he will not only be shown to be the best, but by far.

By pure mastery, not only a weakened version of Tobirama has been shown to utilize suiton effectively enough to counter the katon of that of Hiruzen, the Sandaime Hokage, but also has been shown to bring down the hand seals of a jutsu down from 44 (the largest amount of hand seals for any jutsu in the manga) to just 1.

[VangBro95]

Until shown how good Tobirama is, then I'm gonna say Kisame.

[USSJ Future Trunks]

Seeing as a watered-down version of Tobirama was able to effortlessly counter Hiruzen's katon e

who you forget, was also not full power

and was immediately said to have been partaking in a Kage-level ninjutsu battle based on just one jutsu by ANBU-level shinobi (who even said that they'd never seen a battle of that magnitude before, even though it was only seconds into the fight), I'm going to have to give this to him

the anbu only said that when enma and mokuton were released. the quote still makes sense if it was only talking about the sannin, hiruzen and shodai.

I mean, we've seen the difference between a weakened Part 1 Hashirama's mokuton and Part 2 Hashirama's mokuton.

hashirama did the best he could while inside the sound 4 barrier, and still was casually stomping hiruzens every effort

if Tobirama's suiton jump is even close to what Hashirama's mokuton jump was, he will not only be shown to be the best, but by far.

lol and id lvoe to see him go from the tiny ass water dragon countered by a doton wall to the likes of what kisame used on bee

[tracytracy22]

Seeing as a watered-down version of Tobirama was able to effortlessly counter Hiruzen's katon even without a nearby water source, and was immediately said to have been partaking in a Kage-level ninjutsu battle based on just one jutsu by ANBU-level shinobi (who even said that they'd never seen a battle of that magnitude before, even though it was only seconds into the fight), I'm going to have to give this to him.

I mean, we've seen the difference between a weakened Part 1 Hashirama's mokuton and Part 2 Hashirama's mokuton. Although there was likely not a proportional relationship, if Tobirama's suiton jump is even close to what Hashirama's mokuton jump was, he will not only be shown to be the best, but by far.

By pure mastery, not only a weakened version of Tobirama has been shown to utilize suiton effectively enough to counter the katon of that of Hiruzen, the Sandaime Hokage, but also has been shown to bring down the hand seals of a jutsu down from 44 (the largest amount of hand seals for any jutsu in the manga) to just 1.

Which is exactly what Mei did and to a much larger scale. Tobirama may have been weakened but look at the size of madara's katon and compare that to hiruzens. For me that outways the fact that he was weakened. For me, by feats, Mei > Tobirama. But thats just me.