Who was the best water release (suiton) user?

[thegame]

First of all the shoten technique implemented roughly 30% of the original's chakra. Both kisame and itachi's clone had roughly 30% of their chakra;

Anyway it saddens me that nobody has called upon Mei. By feats the only person infront of her is kisame, though id honestly say they are around equal. She is the soul reason for countering all of madara's stupidly high katon jutsu's. Something that the 5 kage's wouldve had to come up with another way of countering them was it not for Mei. When it took a whole army to counter Madara's katon and Mei alone can accomplish this feat, she has proven herself as one of the best suiton users in the series

Not sure, what you have been reading, bro, but Mei isn't countering anything... Gara and Onoki makes the shield. Mei is nowhere equal to Kisame is suiton.

[softkings]

and what makes you think hashi has jinchuuriki level chakras?

It is said that Senjis have really high chakra scale. Somewhere on a jinchuuriki lvl.

[Omnipotent]

Take solace in the fact there is no way you can. At least, no way to equal my comment's level of awesome.

Also, comic sans? Really?

Best font ever.

[Blaze Release]

Not sure, what you have been reading, bro, but Mei isn't countering anything... Gara and Onoki makes the shield. Mei is nowhere equal to Kisame is suiton.

Ill start by saying she is the only person apart from zabuza to demonstrate the Kirigakure no jutsu in the manga;

She has shown the feats of countering very impressively madara's katon by herself. She like kisame seem to have large reserves to be able to produce such attacks on that scale in a place with no water. Also argue that her ability to combine katon and sution to produce futton makes her one of the best suiton user's, equal or slightly below kisame in the manga

[Baka Sennin]

by feats, kisame easily. tobirama was hyped out to be the best suiton user ever though. part 1 power levels make comparisons very difficult, esp since we saw kisame's full arsenal and only a couple of tobirama's jutsu.

btw, kisame is very easily kage level. he'd beat all the current kage, except maybe oonoki.

[Omnipotent]

by feats, kisame easily. tobirama was hyped out to be the best suiton user ever though. part 1 power levels make comparisons very difficult, esp since we saw kisame's full arsenal and only a couple of tobirama's jutsu.

btw, kisame is very easily kage level. he'd beat all the current kage, except maybe oonoki.

But he didn't beat Gai

[Owarij]

The omnipotent guy is saying that tobirama and hashirama were weakened... that's not true, Orochimaru had a perfected edo tensei.. that has been said in the manga....
That isn't the case..
Part 1 abilities are just on a lesser scale than part 2.... + the fact that the hokages were toying with old hiruzen





Big misconception i'm noticing in this thread.... Tobirama NEVER made water out of Air in the manga.. he did that in the anime, it's not canon

[Omnipotent]

The omnipotent guy is saying that tobirama and hashirama were weakened... that's not true, Orochimaru had a perfected edo tensei.. that has been said in the manga....

So, if they were not weakened, then they were above their prime because they had Edo bodies. Which can't be true, because Madara states that Hashirama alone would be more than a match than the 5 Kage were. So you're saying Hashirama who's > 5 current Kage + Tobirama could have been defended the way they were by the aging Hiruzen? He would've been stomped.

[Owarij]

So, if they were not weakened, then they were above their prime because they had Edo bodies. Which can't be true, because Madara states that Hashirama alone would be more than a match than the 5 Kage were. So you're saying Hashirama who's > 5 current Kage + Tobirama could have been defended the way they were by the aging Hiruzen? He would've been stomped.

Read my edited post please

[Omnipotent]

Read my edited post please

So what you were saying is ... they were even more powerful than they were in their prime? And if they were scaled differently, then how can we even compare them? The only thing we have to go by is after Tobirama used but one B- rank suiton jutsu to counter the Sandaime Hokage's katon jutsu, the ANBU was left in awe and already placed him at Kage-level.

And once again, if Kabuto can improve on the Edo Tensei, then Orochimaru's version is not perfected.

[Strict]

It's not only the power level Kishimoto kept in part 1 Owarij, but also the reputation Kishimoto spread to certain characters. The Edo Tensei was indeed perfected and Hashirama has shown anything he had to offer. Old Hiruzen even claimed that he would stop Shodaime and Nidaime. The simply reason is that Kishimoto didn't consider Hashirama being that strong. The Senju are also known for their mastery of all arts and one thousand Jutsu. The scrolls with all techniques of Konoha were also in Hashiramas possession. Apart from this mastery of 1000 techniques hype, Hashirama has probably the most powerful Kekkei Genkai (as claimed in the databooks being the most versatile one) and medical skills far above Tunades level. These are feats that make realize that Hiruzens hype was too far fetched. Now we know, that Hashirama was the most powerful Shinobi, far above the level of all current Kage together and with powers anyone in the series is seeking for.

Kisame is the favorite here. There is no equality between him and Mei Terumi, Blaze. Her Suiton Jutsus have a good scale, but Kisame is still superior when it comes to flooding whole areas and shot huge shark bullets which can absorb strength of the victims techniques to even get stronger. Mei Terumi used two Suiton techniques in order to stop Madaras wildfire extermination. Kisames shark bullet however would have absorbed it and would have gotten even stronger.

Based on feats, Kisame is no 1. Don't bring up Tobirama.

[Owarij]

So what you were saying is ... they were even more powerful than they were in their prime? And if they were scaled differently, then how can we even compare them? The only thing we have to go by is after Tobirama used but one B- rank suiton jutsu to counter the Sandaime Hokage's katon jutsu, the ANBU was left in awe and already placed him at Kage-level.

And once again, if Kabuto can improve on the Edo Tensei, then Orochimaru's version is not perfected.

What are you talking about? yes hashi and tobirama were supposedly more powerful than they have ever been, simply because they had infinite chakra , immortality etc...... There was no restriction on their jutsu ...
Orochimaru's edo tensei had no problems, his edos were not weaker , The only thing holding them back in anyway is the fact that orochimaru was controlling them, thus they can't possibly fight how they would normally fight themselves...

Hiruzen noted that hashirama's moukoton was the same, no reduction in strength etc...


As for the katon, better feats have been displayed in part 2 by ninjas like mei, kisame...It was nothing special

[Omnipotent]

It's not only the power level Kishimoto kept in part 1 Owarij, but also the reputation Kishimoto spread to certain characters. The Edo Tensei was indeed perfected and Hashirama has shown anything he had to offer. Old Hiruzen even claimed that he would stop Shodaime and Nidaime. The simply reason is that Kishimoto didn't consider Hashirama being that strong. The Senju are also known for their mastery of all arts and one thousand Jutsu. The scrolls with all techniques of Konoha were also in Hashiramas possession. Apart from this mastery of 1000 techniques hype, Hashirama has probably the most powerful Kekkei Genkai (as claimed in the databooks being the most versatile one) and medical skills far above Tunades level. These are feats that make realize that Hiruzens hype was too far fetched. Now we know, that Hashirama was the most powerful Shinobi, far above the level of all current Kage together and with powers anyone in the series is seeking for.

Kisame is the favorite here. There is no equality between him and Mei Terumi, Blaze. Her Suiton Jutsus have a good scale, but Kisame is still superior when it comes to flooding whole areas and shot huge shark bullets which can absorb strength of the victims techniques to even get stronger. Mei Terumi used two Suiton techniques in order to stop Madaras wildfire extermination. Kisames shark bullet however would have absorbed it and would have gotten even stronger.

Based on feats, Kisame is no 1. Don't bring up Tobirama.

*Brings up Tobirama*

On another note, I thought it was obvious Kisame was better than Mei when it comes to suiton.

[★T Bogard]

I don't know why Kisame is that overrated with his suiton techniques. Can someone tell me when Kisame has shown a suiton "attack" without watersource? Mei and Tobirama are the best suiton users for me

[Omnipotent]

What are you talking about? yes hashi and tobirama were supposedly more powerful than they have ever been, simply because they had infinite chakra , immortality etc...... There was no restriction on their jutsu ...
Orochimaru's edo tensei had no problems, his edos were not weaker , The only thing holding them back in anyway is the fact that orochimaru was controlling them, thus they can't possibly fight how they would normally fight themselves...

Hiruzen noted that hashirama's moukoton was the same, no reduction in strength etc...


As for the katon, better feats have been displayed in part 2 by ninjas like mei, kisame...It was nothing special

Well in that case, Tobirama should've flooded Konoha. But that wouldn't have done well for plot, would it?

You just stated they were scaled differently.

[Owarij]

Well in that case, Tobirama should've flooded Konoha. But that wouldn't have done well for plot, would it?

You just stated they were scaled differently.

What part of toying with hiruzen is misunderstood? Orochimaru could have killed old hiruzen a long time ago, he never wanted to end the fight quickly... he wanted to torture him.. that's the whole point... and because of that hiruzen got to take his hands away..

And you do realize they were in a sealed off area right? hashi's trees, nor tobirama's water could get out

[Strict]

I don't know why Kisame is that overrated with his suiton techniques. Can someone tell me when Kisame has shown a suiton "attack" without watersource? Mei and Tobirama are the best suiton users for me

Tobirama was using his Suiton technique out of his mouth, when the Anbu noted that he would be known for do this without a water source. So actually Kisame can do the same, too.

*Brings up Tobirama*

On another note, I thought it was obvious Kisame was better than Mei when it comes to suiton.

Tell it Blaze, who said something like this.

[Gdamon]

Tobirama most likely....

[Owarij]

I don't know why Kisame is that overrated with his suiton techniques. Can someone tell me when Kisame has shown a suiton "attack" without watersource? Mei and Tobirama are the best suiton users for me

??? I can list you like 500 ninjas in part 2 who used a suiton out their mouth.. mei, kisame, darui, itachi..the list goes on..

[Omnipotent]

What part of toying with hiruzen is misunderstood? Orochimaru could have killed old hiruzen a long time ago, he never wanted to end the fight quickly... he wanted to torture him.. that's the whole point... and because of that hiruzen got to take his hands away..

And you do realize they were in a sealed off area right? hashi's trees, nor tobirama's water could get out

I put that under plot. Had they tried, Hiruzen would've been less than a corpse, and Konoha wouldn't have survived the Invasion. Plot made them not try.

A seal held up by four fodder Jonin who Orochimaru could have called off after Hiruzen is finished. Konoha = done.

[TouchMyMangos]

kisame easy, tobirama can't match this

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/506/14

if he can, show me the page.

[★T Bogard]

??? I can list you like 500 ninjas in part 2 who used a suiton out their mouth.. mei, kisame, darui, itachi..the list goes on..

I'm not asking who can create water from his mouth, but who can use suiton attacks without water source, something i've never seen Kisame capable to do. For me Kisame's advantage is his large chakra pool, which helps him to create a large water source, but in terms of skills, Mei for example has shown to be better since she is able to attack with her suiton with a huge suiton attack without water source

[Blaze Release]

Kisame is the favorite here. There is no equality between him and Mei Terumi, Blaze. Her Suiton Jutsus have a good scale, but Kisame is still superior when it comes to flooding whole areas and shot huge shark bullets which can absorb strength of the victims techniques to even get stronger. Mei Terumi used two Suiton techniques in order to stop Madaras wildfire extermination. Kisames shark bullet however would have absorbed it and would have gotten even stronger.

I agree kisame is the best, however i had to shout out Mei because when somebody like mei hasnt been called upon it scares me. Sure when it comes to feats nobody rivals kisame, however if there is somebody who does its Mei

[regii sanguinis]

for me, the 4 best suiton users in the series are:

Tobirama Senju -- he may not have a biggest suiton-based feat, yet he certainly has the most advance.. we are yet to see another shinobi who can create water and perform such a high level suiton jutsu from the water molecules in the air.. both Kisame and Mei have yet to demonstrate such feat.. Kisame created such a large scale water jutsu but that water was from his mouth which basically create out of chakra.. and we all know that it takes much more ability to create the water outside the body than to manipulate what is already available or expel it from their mouths.. also, one cannot say that Tobirama can't create a water based jutsu as large as Kisame did since during his fight with Hiruzen, they are confined in the Four Violet Flames Battle Encampment, so determining the possible extent of his suiton jutsus are basically impossible.. but for raw skill in manipulating water based jutsus, i pick Tobirama as the best..

Kisame Hoshikagi -- he has displayed the most powerful water based jutsus yet based on magnitude and size.. this is probably connected to his large chakra reserves.. i have to admit that the feats that he has shown with suiton jutsus are greater in magnitude than that of Tobirama, but this is probably because, he has shown more jutsus that Tobirama but that doesn't prove he has more skill that the Second Hokage..

Mei Terumi - she has displayed the greatest feats in suiton jutsus save the two before her.. her skill is also worth noting as she is the only one shown capable of creating a high level defensive suiton jutsu into a high level offensive suiton jutsu.. she has managed to counter most of Madara's fire based techniques on her own despite proving in panel that it takes almost an army of regular suiton users to counter just one of Madara's fire jutsu..

[Owarij]

I'm not asking who can create water from his mouth, but who can use suiton attacks without water source, something i've never seen Kisame capable to do. For me Kisame's advantage is his large chakra pool, which helps him to create a large water source, but in terms of skills, Mei for example has shown to be better since she is able to attack with her suiton with a huge suiton attack without water source

same exact jutsu Tobirama used, same exact way