LOLL Kishimoto proves Sarutobi's hype wrong, LMAO

[The Hidden Shinobi]

No, it's specifically stated that Hashirama himself was considered a myth.. like the rikkudo sennin..
Meaning, there are people who don't think he existed, At all...

who would think that? as i said, only people of the younger generation

brb will edit post later

-______- you are trying to claim that people did not know the 1st hokage existed????? -____- so it went 4th, 3rd,2nd and no there was no 1st -____- it is obvious the translation meant his strength.

Anyway this ain't my debate signing out

Edit:

Never mind saw this translation, but was this translation even needed? for it to be understood it meant his strength. People didn't believe the first hokage existed -____- what bull

[KingHashirama]

It only says that they are the best shinobi. Orochimaru says that hiruzen is HAILED as the God of Shinobi.





Kabuto is not from the leaf. He is a war orphaned child, whos orphanage was on the out skirts of konoha. When he joined root he became a spy and traveled to many other villages. He wasnt recruited to spy in konoha until he began working for orochimaru, so the info gathered from him is gathers from many villages, not just the leaf.





Orochimaru says he was hailed as God of shinobi, he didnt say he was said to be.

2. They are hailed as the best shinobi.... Meaning according to the ANBU Tobirama and Hashirama are still the best the leaf had to offer. Soo.. "Was hailed"... vs "are hailed"... =]. "are hailed" wins.

3. Sir he was raised a leaf ninja..... under lord orochimaru.

5. You just mentioned Orochimaru now...and even Orochimaru said "was hailed" as.... while the anbu said "Are hailed as". ;]. See mate, even hiruzen's hype in the Part 1 is nothing now. The leaf recognizes those 2 as the best ninja of the village.

[The Hidden Shinobi]

In no way am I denying that Hashirama is stronger than hiruzen... his abiltiies are on a severly larger scale... what I am arguing is that despite that fact, hiruzen can still defeat him, mostly due to his knowledge of his abilities and ability to counter them

Hmm so like when naruto defeated the 3rd raikage with a mere rasengan because of the info he had about nothing being able to pierce him and he figured out he pierced him self..

I hear you..

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

Fail upon fail i see.

1) Dan has never seen Hashirama nor Madara's full powers.

2) Dan doesn't know of Current Madara's power ups, All he knows is the hype behind him.

3) Point 1 & 2 Prove than dan's statement is Void and He is simply saying what he said because hashirama defeated him befor.

4) Dan Might of been alive During hiruzens prime, This doesn't mean he has ever seen his Full power.

Oh so Dan's statement is void, but not what was said about Iruka and the random ANBU during Hiruzens fight?

I'd consider Dan's statement more likely considering it's more up-to-date if we are doing what we should NEVER do and consider CHARACTER opinions, then Dan's would be correct as Sarutobi hasn't shown us anything that could make me think that he could tackle Hashirama in his prime.

[KingHashirama]

I say whatever I want to whoever I want, so don't come here and tell me what to do. The word fanboy was meant to the OP because I already know he dislike Hiruzen and loves Hashirama more than anyone else.

No point trolling?? If you can't make a decent argument , besides calling others fanboy, and the funny part is calling me a Hashirama fanboy. When I in true nature I'm a Naruto fanboy. No trolls please.

Failed logic. Just because you were around during that time period, that doesn't mean you saw him fight. That's like saying that Iruka has seen Naruto's BM because he was around during that time period.

No sir.. Most accurate logic.. Proves Iruka's statement wrong. If people called him the strongest hokage.... then Dan would know. Use your brains mate. And Iruka has seen Naruto's BM..... lmao. wth. This is about hype not a feat.. cause Hiruzen has NONE. According to Dan's statement Hiruzen's "strongest hokage" hype never existed.

Hmm so like when naruto defeated the 3rd raikage with a mere rasengan because of the info he had about nothing being able to pierce him and he figured out he pierced him self..

I hear you..

I think he is still kinda underestimating the owner of Scroll of Seals.

[The Hidden Shinobi]

I think he is still kinda underestimating the owner of Scroll of Seals.

Yh but knowledge is a powerful thing. I think hiruzen would do a pretty fine job before he gets brutally killed.

[MickNerks]

2. They are hailed as the best shinobi.... Meaning according to the ANBU Tobirama and Hashirama are still the best the leaf had to offer. Soo.. "Was hailed"... vs "are hailed"... =]. "are hailed" wins.

They say hiruzen "was hailed", because they are reffering to him in his prime, They said tobi and hash are hailed because they died in their prime, if they were older like hiruzen they would also be reffered to as "was hailed"..

3. Sir he was raised a leaf ninja..... under lord orochimaru.

But before he was under orochimaru, was he not a spy in many other villages????

5. You just mentioned Orochimaru now...and even Orochimaru said "was hailed" as.... while the anbu said "Are hailed as". ;]. See mate, even hiruzen's hype in the Part 1 is nothing now. The leaf recognizes those 2 as the best ninja of the village.

Becuase hiruzen in his prime was hailed.. Hashirama and tobirama died in there prime, which in any case more of of reason why hiruzen must have been more powerful. He didnt die in his prime, and he was the longest reigning.

[BloodSeed]

Not in the official VIZ scan.



Even in the scan you provided, there is an element of his strength being mythical, not his actual existence.

lol kabuto also stated that as long as he had THAT JUTSU he is INVINCIBLE then what happen???

[KingHashirama]

Yh but knowledge is a powerful thing. I think hiruzen would do a pretty fine job before he gets brutally killed.

I can't help but feel that he would have a WAAAYYY worse death then Madara did. Like it'd be a overkill or something man.

Becuase hiruzen in his prime was hailed.. Hashirama and tobirama died in there prime, which in any case more of of reason why hiruzen must have been more powerful. He didnt die in his prime, and he was the longest reigning.

Dude Hashirama was the strongest ninja when Madara climibing the ranks and when Madara hit his prime.... lmaoo. We don't know wth his prime was.. People in Hiruzen's era hadn't seen Hashirama's prime.
But the shinobi of the leaf consider Tobirama and Hashirama to be the best mate ;D. Not Hiruzen.

[Owarij]

you ¬underestimate how important knowledge can be in a fight, Yes alot of Hiruzen's jutsu would have been thought to him by Hashirama and tobirama, but he also had alot of time to refine and improve on those skills possibly even invent more.. here we have a fight where on one side we have a ninja with almost full knowledge of his teacher's fighting style and abilities, and he has a ninjutsu arsenal that has been constantly stressed on in the manga and databooks to be extensively wide.. What does this mean? with such an arsenal he should be have a counter for just about anything hashi throws at him.. let's not forget this man is a genius who instantly knew the weakness of one of hashiramas a rank genjustu.... As for moukouton we've seen that enma is easily able to destroy it, even Hiruzen knew that it would... my point is, knowledge goes far... sasori is stronger than sakura and chyo yes, but with a little knowledge of his poison before hand look what happened? Now imagine if they came into that fight with full knowledge of sasori and his puppets /abilities how much would have changed? my class is about to start and I'm on my phone, will reply later @hiddenshinobi precisely another, example where knowledge won a fight... there is a reason kakashi gains information on the opponent using a shadow clone first

[KingHashirama]

[COLOR="yellowgreen"]you ¬underestimate how important knowledge can be in a fight, Yes alot of Hiruzen's jutsu would have been thought to him by Hashirama and tobirama, but he also had alot of time to refine and improve on those skills possibly even invent more.. here we have a fight where on one side we have a ninja with almost full knowledge of his teacher's fighting style and abilities, and he has a ninjutsu arsenal that has been constantly stressed on in the manga and databooks to be extensively wide.. What does this mean? with such an arsenal he should be have a counter for just about anything hashi throws at him.. let's not forget this man is a genius who instantly knew the weakness of one of hashiramas a rank genjustu.... As for moukouton we've seen that enma is easily able to destroy it, even Hiruzen knew that it would... my point is, knowledge goes far... sasori is stronger than sakura and chyo yes, but with a little knowledge of his poison before hand look what happened? Now imagine if they came into that fight with full knowledge of sasori and his puppets /abilities how much would have changed? my class is about to start and I'm on my phone, will reply later /COLOR]

But He was mostly taught by Tobirama not Hashirama. Since Hashirama wasn't alive for that long after the creation of the village.

We've seen Enma destroy a 10% powerfull mokuton.. But nothing on the scope of this:



That mokuton is too much even for Enma. And then Hashirama has Medical ninjutsu, and Chakra advantage.... and other forbidden jutsus in the Scrolls. And not to forgot he is physically stronger then Him. But what is Hashirama's weakness?? I mean you can stab him.... he regenerates. He can capture the 9-tails with a single hand while doing hand signs with the other one. Sarutobi proved he had no strong Jutsus when he had no choice but to use the suicide jutsu. And also his chakra level is lower then Onoki's.

[Expulso]

Ofc Hashirama is the strongest Hokage... non-debatable fact.

[TheOnlyBlackGaiHere]

I just realized this today, while debating on youtube. Kishimoto already proved hiruzen's title "God of shinobi" wrong.

People didn't want to be believe it through Madara Uchiha. But a more confirmed person has proved it wrong.

I bet you all know his name. Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you Tsunade's lover... DAN

This Man stated: Only hashirama could possibly stop Madara. LOL.

Funny part about that is.. Hashirama was way before Dan's time. lol. He was a jounin when Sarutobi was the Hokage ;p. And he had seen his prime. =3. :P:D

...Dan, the guy that barely lasted one chapter, why are we taking his word for it ? He could be a habitual liar for all we know

[Zlad]

But He was mostly taught by Tobirama not Hashirama. Since Hashirama wasn't alive for that long after the creation of the village.

We've seen Enma destroy a 10% powerfull mokuton.. But nothing on the scope of this:



That mokuton is too much even for Enma. And then Hashirama has Medical ninjutsu, and Chakra advantage.... and other forbidden jutsus in the Scrolls. And not to forgot he is physically stronger then Him. But what is Hashirama's weakness?? I mean you can stab him.... he regenerates. He can capture the 9-tails with a single hand while doing hand signs with the other one. Sarutobi proved he had no strong Jutsus when he had no choice but to use the suicide jutsu. And also his chakra level is lower then Onoki's.

....



Do you even know what you say?

[Owarij]

10% strong moukouton what are you talking about? no where was it ever stated that his moukouton was weakened.... it doesn't matter if it is bigger than they would just be easier to dodge... you seem to not realize that enma is made of diamond, he will easily cut through chakra infused wood just as he did before

[Omnipotent]

My thread supports what KingHashirama is saying.

Hashirama is the most powerful Hokage. Period.

Why?

Edo Madara fodderizes the five current Kage:

Edo Madara states the only one who can stop him is Hashirama:

Edo Madara states that Tsunade's medical ninjutsu is worthless in comparison to Hashirama's:

Edo Madara explains just how outclassed Tsunade was by her grandfather:

Edo Madara states that the five Kage together are nothing compared to Hashirama:

Edo Madara states that only he with his EMS could see through Hashirama's mokuton clone jutsu:

Dan shouldn't count, but he says the only one who can beat Edo Madara is Hashirama:

Madara must have known about Hiruzen and Minato because these guys gathered information for him; it's not as if he wasn't up-to-date with everything:

Hashirama is superior to Tobirama (as much as I hate to say it):

So, Edo Madara was shown to fodderize Tsunade (along with four other Kage), and Hashirama is shown to be superior to Tobirama (this is obvious, sadly), Hiruzen, and Minato through statements by Edo Madara (and Dan, who once again, shouldn't count).

[KingHashirama]

....



Do you even know what you say?

OMG, ENMA BROKE A BRANCH. SHITTT DAWG HES BADASS.... lmaooo. The mokuton in the i showed is like 100x bigger then the mokuton branch enma broke in your pic.

10% strong moukouton what are you talking about? no where was it ever stated that his moukouton was weakened.... it doesn't matter if it is bigger than they would just be easier to dodge... you seem to not realize that enma is made of diamond, he will easily cut through chakra infused wood just as he did before

Size mate..... size determines strength. Wth are you talking about it doesn't matter if they are bigger?? All i stated was he can't break that mokuton.. or atleast he hasn't shown the capability. lmao. You seem to not understand that Hiruzen and enma didn't show that much of "Battle changers".... lmao. Your overrating Enma's power.. He didn't cut through he broke it when Sarutobi was tied up. But I'm just telling you Edo Hashirama's mokuton was him playing around with Sarutobi.... ;]. And I like how Sarutobi has to have Enma's assistance to beat Hashirama xD.

...Dan, the guy that barely lasted one chapter, why are we taking his word for it ? He could be a habitual liar for all we know

Well , one of the people who gave Hiruzen his hype is known for lying.and is a sneaky evil man. The other is a mere chunin.... So far Dan is more credible

[RasenUchihaChaos]

There is naught beyond this moment for those who will not give themselves whole to their cause.

[Exaar]

My thread supports what KingHashirama is saying.

Your thread supports nothing

The viz scan shows madara saying "Only hashirama Could ever stop me", He says nothing about hashirama defeating him in his current form.

Madara said that about tsunades medical ninjutsu befor she used byakugou. Byakugou matchs hashirama's healing Hype/Feat.

We all know hashirama is far stronger than tsuande, This proves nothing.

[Omnipotent]

Your thread supports nothing

The viz scan shows madara saying "Only hashirama Could ever stop me", He says nothing about hashirama defeating him in his current form.

Madara said that about tsunades medical ninjutsu befor she used byakugou. Byakugou matchs hashirama's healing Hype/Feat.

We all know hashirama is far stronger than tsuande, This proves nothing.

Show the scan. It doesn't matter, though, because:

You're ignoring where he says that the five Kage together are nothing compared to Hashirama. Or that Madara was alive the whole time Sarutobi was Hokage (at least before the Nine-Tails' attack). Or where Madara states that only he with his EMS could see through Hashirama's mokuton clone jutsu; something that could be used to kill Sarutobi (I don't see him healing without any hand seals like Tsunade or Hashirama).

[Owarij]

Size mate..... size determines strength. Wth are you talking about it doesn't matter if they are bigger?? All i stated was he can't break that mokuton.. or atleast he hasn't shown the capability. lmao. You seem to not understand that Hiruzen and enma didn't show that much of "Battle changers".... lmao. Your overrating Enma's power.. He didn't cut through he broke it when Sarutobi was tied up. But I'm just telling you Edo Hashirama's mokuton was him playing around with Sarutobi.... ;]. And I like how Sarutobi has to have Enma's assistance to beat Hashirama xD.

Right, and because he hasn't shown the capability to do it he can't? that my friend is a argument from ignorance and a logical fallacy.. Orochimaru toyed with him and didn't go for the straight kill, but how in the world does that make you think madara's moukoton was at 10% ? Your assuming things not at all hinted or supported in the manga?

?

I like how Sarutobi has to have Enma's assistance to beat Hashirama xD.

You must be joking

[Omnipotent]

Right, and because he hasn't shown the capability to do it he can't? that my friend is a argument from ignorance and a logical fallacy.. Orochimaru toyed with him and didn't go for the straight kill, but how in the world does that make you think madara's moukoton was at 10% ? Your assuming things not at all hinted or supported in the manga?

?

You must be joking

Didn't Enma get himself tied up by Orochimaru's fodder snakes? I would've thought it would take Manda, but ... oh well.

[KingHashirama]

Your thread supports nothing

The viz scan shows madara saying "Only hashirama Could ever stop me", He says nothing about hashirama defeating him in his current form.

Madara said that about tsunades medical ninjutsu befor she used byakugou. Byakugou matchs hashirama's healing Hype/Feat.

We all know hashirama is far stronger than tsuande, This proves nothing.

Should read the Volumes..... instead of these supposedly "viz scans". lmao. it says "capable of stoping me". ;]. Don't know where you get your "viz scans" lmao. Actually he said All his techs are on higher level. ;]. And didn't really give a crap about her Byakugou. Nice try. But like the Anbu said, Hashirama and Tobirama are the best ninjas the leaf has seen.

Right, and because he hasn't shown the capability to do it he can't? that my friend is a argument from ignorance and a logical fallacy.. Orochimaru toyed with him and didn't go for the straight kill, but how in the world does that make you think madara's moukoton was at 10% ? Your assuming things not at all hinted or supported in the manga?

?

You must be joking

Of course..... Its like saying Kimimaru can break through that mokuton.... lmao. Sorry, but when were enma and Sarutobi on that high scale?? If they were they could've defeated Oro... ;]. Hmmmm. I'm talking about Hashirama's mokuton.. Mad again? Dude no matter how you try to support hiruzen.... he isn't the strongest period. People from his era don't consider him. lmao. Hell even the Anbu don't.

And I pretty sure a Mokuton that covers only half a building is 10% or less of a mokuton that covers Mountains and makes a Forest bigger then that whole stadium.. lmao.

And your the one mentioning enma everytime.. So i assume he needs enma to beat Hashi? ;]

[Owarij]

Should read the Volumes..... instead of these supposedly "viz scans". lmao. it says "capable of stoping me". ;]. Don't know where you get your "viz scans" lmao. Actually he said All his techs are on higher level. ;]. And didn't really give a crap about her Byakugou. Nice try. But like the Anbu said, Hashirama and Tobirama are the best ninjas the leaf has seen.



Of course..... Its like saying Kimimaru can break through that mokuton.... lmao. Sorry, but when were enma and Sarutobi on that high scale?? If they were they could've defeated Oro... ;]. Hmmmm. I'm talking about Hashirama's mokuton.. Mad again? Dude no matter how you try to support hiruzen.... he isn't the strongest period. People from his era don't consider him. lmao. Hell even the Anbu don't.

And I pretty sure a Mokuton that covers only half a building is 10% or less of a mokuton that covers Mountains and makes a Forest bigger then that whole stadium.. lmao.

And your the one mentioning enma everytime.. So i assume he needs enma to beat Hashi? ;]

Of course he'll need enma, it's his summoning....
Did kakashi need his dogs to defeat zabuza?

It's a jutsu wth is wrong with you?



Are you reallly, comparing bone to diamond? One of the hardest materials on the planet? your arguments are getting worse and worse

[KingHashirama]

Of course he'll need enma, it's his summoning....
Did kakashi need his dogs to defeat zabuza?

It's a jutsu wth is wrong with you?



Are you reallly, comparing bone to diamond? One of the hardest materials on the planet? your arguments are getting worse and worse

You could've said... yea he needs Enma's help.. lmao. Kakashi needed the dogs because he couldn't trace Zabuza down.. he needed their assistance... Cause otherwise Kakashi = Zabuza in part 1.

Summonings are used for assistance.. Please pay attention to what i say.

~sigh~..... You know what..... Madara , Dan, and the anbu disagree with you that Hiruzen was the strongest.

This is anime we're talking about.... lmaoo. But again you provide no example of how enma is that powerful? Oh yes because there is no proof.