LOLL Kishimoto proves Sarutobi's hype wrong, LMAO

[KingHashirama]

Minato>Hiruzen

Hashirama>Hiruzen

Nah bro, I'll have to disagree... Minato has done nothing or nothing about him is stated to counter Hiruzen's hype and move him above Hiruzen.

But if we also went by the anime then:

1. Hashirama
2. Tobirama
3. Sarutobi
4. Minato

that would be the list. Basically noone surpassed the hokage before them.

[LegendaryAce]

Alot of things said sometimes are proven to be either misread or wrong

Like byakugan > base sharingan that was before all the upgrades and shit

Now if someone reads everything and someone says base sharingan user loses to byakugan you could say bs since u can use izanagi and shit with them now .. And with that base sharingan is greater ( manga said byakugan > base sharingan at some point )

Now let look at the hashirama and hiruzen like that

The fact that it took hiruzens life to get rid of hashirama and Tobirama doesn't mean he was stronger he just did what he ha to do had little to no choice but to take them with him

Now hashirama vs hiruzen the best hiruzen could do is use rds
Hashirama has alot of techs that hiruzen wouldn't be able to counter or will had a hard time doing so
Like fighting blind Amgen won't know about the pollen coming and shit meaning its ko

I could also use the arguement at that point in the story hiruzen was stronger than hashirama but hashirama got his hype up to make madara look stronger since people wouldn't have thought madara was such a big threat .. But with hashiramas hype makes him look badass because its the powers of the legends mixed

But if we use manga as evidence using all techs hashirama > hiruzen

Also a question about hiruzen the people who called him a god .. How did they know hashiramas full power ..?
The reason he was called professor and god was his vast knowledge on jutsus and stuff

It's like me calling all senju gods and stuff because they are a clan of thousand jutsus also knowing about the jutsu doesn't mean he could use alot of them since hiruzen doesn't look like he had much chakra and in his prime he probably has abit more chakra than he had at his late years .. Hashirama has the upper hand in most of the things judging by the manga he should have mastered every fighting style since it says senju mastered every fighting style

I am interested in who iruka heard the god of shinobi thing from could have been a shinobi humor thing were they joke around and give him a nickname

[a banned cartoon]

Of course he's not that's how all anime's/manga's that sat this long have to do. The guys that are fighting in that point in time have to be the strongest until they die off and let the next villain, or good guy coming up rise above them. There's a huge difference between the fight scenes and the strength of jutsu's from Naruto to Naruto Shippuden. That's how it's been and that's how it's always gonna be.

[Blaze Release]

Hiruzen fans...... what do you have as a support to prove your selves? NOTHING.

If your really gonna say Iruka > Dan.. then no comment....
I seee. ^_^ enjoy then

I still participate however i like to see both sides just troll each other. Ill give my two cents though.
First is that both sides do not understand the manga, yep that is what i said. Both sides do not understand the manga.

Hiruzen was said to be the strongest and this echoed from the manga to the DB. Reason why Hiruzen was the strongest has nothing to do with the raw power that hashirama commands. Hiruzen was trained by both the 2 previous hokage's. Both were senju and this clan was said to be a clan with 1000 skills (or something like that). Hashirama/Tobirama passed on these skills to Hiruzen and that is why even at such an old age he is the only ninja in the series so far to command maximum stats in the 3 ninja arts. Secondly Hashirama left thousands of scrolls for the next generation of hokage's, most likely technique's from his clan (1000 skills by hype). Hiruzen was got his name the professor for leaning/understand all the technique's in these scrolls, something that i doubt even hashirama/tobirama couldve done because they didnt live to the age hiruzen did, but also the sarutobi clan were said to grasp technique's fairly quickly.

With the understanding of these technique's that were left in his possession he was quickly able to note the weaknesses of hashirama's bringer of darkness technique. Apart from blinding the opponent, all the others sense are not effected therefore smell, hear, touch and taste are the weaknesses of this technique and hiruzen took advantage of his understanding of his teacher's technique, which allowed him to overcome the technique and seal his previous teacher's.

You hear the quote "Knowledge is power". That is what hiruzen has over the previous hokage. Ill even give you a manga page, which might allow you to understand what im saying

Just read what jiraiya is thinking about here;

That is basically why hiruzen is the strongest. It has not so much to do with raw power but years and years of knowledge which would allowed him to defeat either hokage's in a fight.

What dan said is rathe straight forward. I do know whether prime hiruzen can defeat ems madara or not, though i agree dan lived during prime hiruzen's time. What i do know is that hashirama is the best counter for ems madara so much that it makes sense why danosaid what he did. It would be extremely hard for anybody else to defeat madara without having counters for his abilities.

Example hashirama's bringer of darkness trolls sharingan based genjutsu. If it blinds the user so to speak and the user only see's pitch black. They obviously arent getting any eye contact to use genjutsu.

Secondly is the ability to create mokuton clones and we know the clones troll genjutsu

Thirdly, hashirama is a kage bunshin user and its his scroll that naruto scroll in part 1. Clones troll genjutsu

Mokuton allows the user the ability to fight from all ranges. Short/mid/long. By fighting mid/long range hashirama further trolls sharingan genjutsu because its short range.

He must be a very good suiton user and by hype he has a large chakra reserve to counter madara's very high katon jutsu's by himself.

He has the wood dragon, which as we know suppresses bijuu.

He is the husband of an uzumaki. Its very possible that mito thought hashirama uzumaki technique's just like how kushina thought minato. Its possible that its a similar contract technique that hashirama used to undo the genjutsu casted on the fox like what minato did to obito

Its possible that with the wood dragon he can also surpress chakra and not just bijuu chakra and this can cause madara trouble and perhaps limit his use of susano. Yamato has shown the ability to control to an extent kisame's chakra. Its possible that hashirama can do the same therefore further limiting madara.

Finally. Whilst Hiruzen is the strongest hokage due to him most likely being the most skilful/versatile overall because of experience with ninjutsu and other forms of ninja art, but more importantly because of the knowledge he has on the previous hokage's.

Hashirama is stronger than hiruzen if we were to pit them up against high level opponents i can see hashirama winning more fights than hiruzen, though its just hype. However if we were to revert this and put them back in their hokage position, hiruzen is above hashirama. Hashirama would have trouble facing his former student than any other random high level ninja

[repulse]

Haha, so deluded. Dan said this only because Hashirama is proven to have been able to stop Madara before. And Madara has never seen Hiruzen fight beforehand.

[repulse]

I still participate however i like to see both sides just troll each other. Ill give my two cents though.
First is that both sides do not understand the manga, yep that is what i said. Both sides do not understand the manga.

Hiruzen was said to be the strongest and this echoed from the manga to the DB. Reason why Hiruzen was the strongest has nothing to do with the raw power that hashirama commands. Hiruzen was trained by both the 2 previous hokage's. Both were senju and this clan was said to be a clan with 1000 skills (or something like that). Hashirama/Tobirama passed on these skills to Hiruzen and that is why even at such an old age he is the only ninja in the series so far to command maximum stats in the 3 ninja arts. Secondly Hashirama left thousands of scrolls for the next generation of hokage's, most likely technique's from his clan (1000 skills by hype). Hiruzen was got his name the professor for leaning/understand all the technique's in these scrolls, something that i doubt even hashirama/tobirama couldve done because they didnt live to the age hiruzen did, but also the sarutobi clan were said to grasp technique's fairly quickly.

With the understanding of these technique's that were left in his possession he was quickly able to note the weaknesses of hashirama's bringer of darkness technique. Apart from blinding the opponent, all the others sense are not effected therefore smell, hear, touch and taste are the weaknesses of this technique and hiruzen took advantage of his understanding of his teacher's technique, which allowed him to overcome the technique and seal his previous teacher's.

You hear the quote "Knowledge is power". That is what hiruzen has over the previous hokage. Ill even give you a manga page, which might allow you to understand what im saying

Just read what jiraiya is thinking about here;

That is basically why hiruzen is the strongest. It has not so much to do with raw power but years and years of knowledge which would allowed him to defeat either hokage's in a fight.

What dan said is rathe straight forward. I do know whether prime hiruzen can defeat ems madara or not, though i agree dan lived during prime hiruzen's time. What i do know is that hashirama is the best counter for ems madara so much that it makes sense why danosaid what he did. It would be extremely hard for anybody else to defeat madara without having counters for his abilities.

Example hashirama's bringer of darkness trolls sharingan based genjutsu. If it blinds the user so to speak and the user only see's pitch black. They obviously arent getting any eye contact to use genjutsu.

Secondly is the ability to create mokuton clones and we know the clones troll genjutsu

Thirdly, hashirama is a kage bunshin user and its his scroll that naruto scroll in part 1. Clones troll genjutsu

Mokuton allows the user the ability to fight from all ranges. Short/mid/long. By fighting mid/long range hashirama further trolls sharingan genjutsu because its short range.

He must be a very good suiton user and by hype he has a large chakra reserve to counter madara's very high katon jutsu's by himself.

He has the wood dragon, which as we know suppresses bijuu.

He is the husband of an uzumaki. Its very possible that mito thought hashirama uzumaki technique's just like how kushina thought minato. Its possible that its a similar contract technique that hashirama used to undo the genjutsu casted on the fox like what minato did to obito

Its possible that with the wood dragon he can also surpress chakra and not just bijuu chakra and this can cause madara trouble and perhaps limit his use of susano. Yamato has shown the ability to control to an extent kisame's chakra. Its possible that hashirama can do the same therefore further limiting madara.

Finally. Whilst Hiruzen is the strongest hokage due to him most likely being the most skilful/versatile overall because of experience with ninjutsu and other forms of ninja art, but more importantly because of the knowledge he has on the previous hokage's.

Hashirama is stronger than hiruzen if we were to pit them up against high level opponents i can see hashirama winning more fights than hiruzen, though its just hype. However if we were to revert this and put them back in their hokage position, hiruzen is above hashirama. Hashirama would have trouble facing his former student than any other random high level ninja

This, in its entirety.

[Shisui Namikaze]

Iruka never seen hiruzen a prime but yet it's always brought up during arguments. Now that Dan has stated that hashirama is the only
one capable of stopping madara to prove that hiruzen a hype was a fake the hiruzen fans can't take it.

If you want to take what iruka said to heart then you should take what Dan said to heart as well speaking to hiruzen lovers.

[startup97]

When Iruka said he is the strongest Hokage to the Academy students. Hiruzen replied with "Hey, Iruka!! Don't use past tense!!" Hiruzen IMPLIED he that he was the strongest in his prime. Plus Hiruzen was taught by both the 1st and 2nd. He'd probably know about their techniques and how to counter them. Heres when Sarutobi implied that before he was the strongest.

[LegendaryAce]

I still participate however i like to see both sides just troll each other. Ill give my two cents though.
First is that both sides do not understand the manga, yep that is what i said. Both sides do not understand the manga.

Hiruzen was said to be the strongest and this echoed from the manga to the DB. Reason why Hiruzen was the strongest has nothing to do with the raw power that hashirama commands. Hiruzen was trained by both the 2 previous hokage's. Both were senju and this clan was said to be a clan with 1000 skills (or something like that). Hashirama/Tobirama passed on these skills to Hiruzen and that is why even at such an old age he is the only ninja in the series so far to command maximum stats in the 3 ninja arts. Secondly Hashirama left thousands of scrolls for the next generation of hokage's, most likely technique's from his clan (1000 skills by hype). Hiruzen was got his name the professor for leaning/understand all the technique's in these scrolls, something that i doubt even hashirama/tobirama couldve done because they didnt live to the age hiruzen did, but also the sarutobi clan were said to grasp technique's fairly quickly.

With the understanding of these technique's that were left in his possession he was quickly able to note the weaknesses of hashirama's bringer of darkness technique. Apart from blinding the opponent, all the others sense are not effected therefore smell, hear, touch and taste are the weaknesses of this technique and hiruzen took advantage of his understanding of his teacher's technique, which allowed him to overcome the technique and seal his previous teacher's.

You hear the quote "Knowledge is power". That is what hiruzen has over the previous hokage. Ill even give you a manga page, which might allow you to understand what im saying

Just read what jiraiya is thinking about here;

That is basically why hiruzen is the strongest. It has not so much to do with raw power but years and years of knowledge which would allowed him to defeat either hokage's in a fight.

What dan said is rathe straight forward. I do know whether prime hiruzen can defeat ems madara or not, though i agree dan lived during prime hiruzen's time. What i do know is that hashirama is the best counter for ems madara so much that it makes sense why danosaid what he did. It would be extremely hard for anybody else to defeat madara without having counters for his abilities.

Example hashirama's bringer of darkness trolls sharingan based genjutsu. If it blinds the user so to speak and the user only see's pitch black. They obviously arent getting any eye contact to use genjutsu.

Secondly is the ability to create mokuton clones and we know the clones troll genjutsu

Thirdly, hashirama is a kage bunshin user and its his scroll that naruto scroll in part 1. Clones troll genjutsu

Mokuton allows the user the ability to fight from all ranges. Short/mid/long. By fighting mid/long range hashirama further trolls sharingan genjutsu because its short range.

He must be a very good suiton user and by hype he has a large chakra reserve to counter madara's very high katon jutsu's by himself.

He has the wood dragon, which as we know suppresses bijuu.

He is the husband of an uzumaki. Its very possible that mito thought hashirama uzumaki technique's just like how kushina thought minato. Its possible that its a similar contract technique that hashirama used to undo the genjutsu casted on the fox like what minato did to obito

Its possible that with the wood dragon he can also surpress chakra and not just bijuu chakra and this can cause madara trouble and perhaps limit his use of susano. Yamato has shown the ability to control to an extent kisame's chakra. Its possible that hashirama can do the same therefore further limiting madara.

Finally. Whilst Hiruzen is the strongest hokage due to him most likely being the most skilful/versatile overall because of experience with ninjutsu and other forms of ninja art, but more importantly because of the knowledge he has on the previous hokage's.

Hashirama is stronger than hiruzen if we were to pit them up against high level opponents i can see hashirama winning more fights than hiruzen, though its just hype. However if we were to revert this and put them back in their hokage position, hiruzen is above hashirama. Hashirama would have trouble facing his former student than any other random high level ninja

There are scrolls hashirama hid ... It's possible he knew jutsus he didn't want anyone else to know meaning he might have things to use against hiruzen which hiruzen has no clue about

Also knowing someone's weakness doesn't always mean you have the upper hand .. ( I also doubt hiruzen knows every single jutsu hashirama had - he probably doesn't know the high mokuton techs and hashirama could have a large arsenal of seals by learning from mito and useful restraining techniques)

My point being 7-8/10 hashirama could beat hiruzen ...

Hashirama has probably got alot of experience fighting different shinobi since he fought even kakuzu he could have ways he would beat hiruzen ..ofcourse this statement works for hiruzen too

A good example would be minato vs a and killer bee , a knew minato had to teleport to a Kunai to use ftg so it had to be one of the ones he threw ... But he didn't account that by trying to wait for minato to move minato would then teleport to bee instead ...( i know bee had figured it out but my point is a weakness can sometimes become a strong point - a person would expect to target your weekness that's why Pervy sage said that but if you take advantage of that then you end up having the upper hand because a person wouldn't expect you to do anything if they aim at your weak point )

[MickNerks]

Why are you guys trying to make it seem like Hiruzen isnt powerful or doesnt have feats.. He has shown that he is way more on a higher scale then hashirama already. First take into regard that hiruzen is 70 years old, and then imaging what would happen if he was in his prime.

1. Hiruzen was so powerful and his chakra was so emense that when he began to fight orochimaru and he released his chakra, the atmosphere around him began to get heavier and the building around him began to crack. His chakra was said to be even more immense during his prime. The only other shinobi to have such an effect of the atmophere is the raikage (lighting release v2) and guy sensei after opening his 6-8 gate.




2. He has mastered more than 1000 jutsu and knows every jutsu ever created in the leaf village. Which includes every Taijutsu, Genjutsu, Kinjutsu, finjutsu, medical jutsu and Ninjutsu technique. Which means he knows all of hashirama's technique and how to counter them. And he is also able to use and has mastered medical ninjutsu. So when is comes to jutsu hiruzen is superior to hashirama.





3. Hiruzen has shown great sensing abilities, being able to track down the former Hokages under Hashirama Senju's Bringer-of-Darkness Technique.


4. He defeated two powerful edo tension summonings at once and also severely crippled orochimaru. All while maintaining his composure. There arnt many people who can fight two hokage edo summons and orochimaru at once and still win.

5. He escaped from mokuton (tree world) and stopped a raging water jutsu by tobirama.

6. Was said to be a GOD of Shinobi and the strongest shinobi to ever live in his prime.

[LegendaryAce]

When Iruka said he is the strongest Hokage to the Academy students. Hiruzen replied with "Hey, Iruka!! Don't use past tense!!" Hiruzen IMPLIED he that he was the strongest in his prime. Plus Hiruzen was taught by both the 1st and 2nd. He'd probably know about their techniques and how to counter them. Heres when Sarutobi implied that before he was the strongest.

Strongest at the time! Not the strongest of all .. Same applies to hashirama he was said to be the strongest but people say at his time - how may people can beat ems madara + kyubi not many... How many people can beat Orochimaru + 2 kages Edo .. Not many both the winners of these fights had perfect counters for the situation ( ofcourse hiruzen lost the fight but he stopped the Edos )

[Exaar]

I still participate however i like to see both sides just troll each other. Ill give my two cents though.
First is that both sides do not understand the manga, yep that is what i said. Both sides do not understand the manga.

Hiruzen was said to be the strongest and this echoed from the manga to the DB. Reason why Hiruzen was the strongest has nothing to do with the raw power that hashirama commands. Hiruzen was trained by both the 2 previous hokage's. Both were senju and this clan was said to be a clan with 1000 skills (or something like that). Hashirama/Tobirama passed on these skills to Hiruzen and that is why even at such an old age he is the only ninja in the series so far to command maximum stats in the 3 ninja arts. Secondly Hashirama left thousands of scrolls for the next generation of hokage's, most likely technique's from his clan (1000 skills by hype). Hiruzen was got his name the professor for leaning/understand all the technique's in these scrolls, something that i doubt even hashirama/tobirama couldve done because they didnt live to the age hiruzen did, but also the sarutobi clan were said to grasp technique's fairly quickly.

With the understanding of these technique's that were left in his possession he was quickly able to note the weaknesses of hashirama's bringer of darkness technique. Apart from blinding the opponent, all the others sense are not effected therefore smell, hear, touch and taste are the weaknesses of this technique and hiruzen took advantage of his understanding of his teacher's technique, which allowed him to overcome the technique and seal his previous teacher's.

You hear the quote "Knowledge is power". That is what hiruzen has over the previous hokage. Ill even give you a manga page, which might allow you to understand what im saying

Just read what jiraiya is thinking about here;

That is basically why hiruzen is the strongest. It has not so much to do with raw power but years and years of knowledge which would allowed him to defeat either hokage's in a fight.

What dan said is rathe straight forward. I do know whether prime hiruzen can defeat ems madara or not, though i agree dan lived during prime hiruzen's time. What i do know is that hashirama is the best counter for ems madara so much that it makes sense why danosaid what he did. It would be extremely hard for anybody else to defeat madara without having counters for his abilities.

Example hashirama's bringer of darkness trolls sharingan based genjutsu. If it blinds the user so to speak and the user only see's pitch black. They obviously arent getting any eye contact to use genjutsu.

Secondly is the ability to create mokuton clones and we know the clones troll genjutsu

Thirdly, hashirama is a kage bunshin user and its his scroll that naruto scroll in part 1. Clones troll genjutsu

Mokuton allows the user the ability to fight from all ranges. Short/mid/long. By fighting mid/long range hashirama further trolls sharingan genjutsu because its short range.

He must be a very good suiton user and by hype he has a large chakra reserve to counter madara's very high katon jutsu's by himself.

He has the wood dragon, which as we know suppresses bijuu.

He is the husband of an uzumaki. Its very possible that mito thought hashirama uzumaki technique's just like how kushina thought minato. Its possible that its a similar contract technique that hashirama used to undo the genjutsu casted on the fox like what minato did to obito

Its possible that with the wood dragon he can also surpress chakra and not just bijuu chakra and this can cause madara trouble and perhaps limit his use of susano. Yamato has shown the ability to control to an extent kisame's chakra. Its possible that hashirama can do the same therefore further limiting madara.

Finally. Whilst Hiruzen is the strongest hokage due to him most likely being the most skilful/versatile overall because of experience with ninjutsu and other forms of ninja art, but more importantly because of the knowledge he has on the previous hokage's.

Hashirama is stronger than hiruzen if we were to pit them up against high level opponents i can see hashirama winning more fights than hiruzen, though its just hype. However if we were to revert this and put them back in their hokage position, hiruzen is above hashirama. Hashirama would have trouble facing his former student than any other random high level ninja

So much for sitting back and relaxing.

Just couldn't help yourself could you

[MickNerks]

this is basically how these threads go:


Hashirama fans





Hiruzen Fans

[Thundercles]

I still participate however i like to see both sides just troll each other. Ill give my two cents though.
First is that both sides do not understand the manga, yep that is what i said. Both sides do not understand the manga.

Hiruzen was said to be the strongest and this echoed from the manga to the DB. Reason why Hiruzen was the strongest has nothing to do with the raw power that hashirama commands. Hiruzen was trained by both the 2 previous hokage's. Both were senju and this clan was said to be a clan with 1000 skills (or something like that). Hashirama/Tobirama passed on these skills to Hiruzen and that is why even at such an old age he is the only ninja in the series so far to command maximum stats in the 3 ninja arts. Secondly Hashirama left thousands of scrolls for the next generation of hokage's, most likely technique's from his clan (1000 skills by hype). Hiruzen was got his name the professor for leaning/understand all the technique's in these scrolls, something that i doubt even hashirama/tobirama couldve done because they didnt live to the age hiruzen did, but also the sarutobi clan were said to grasp technique's fairly quickly.

With the understanding of these technique's that were left in his possession he was quickly able to note the weaknesses of hashirama's bringer of darkness technique. Apart from blinding the opponent, all the others sense are not effected therefore smell, hear, touch and taste are the weaknesses of this technique and hiruzen took advantage of his understanding of his teacher's technique, which allowed him to overcome the technique and seal his previous teacher's.

You hear the quote "Knowledge is power". That is what hiruzen has over the previous hokage. Ill even give you a manga page, which might allow you to understand what im saying

Just read what jiraiya is thinking about here;

That is basically why hiruzen is the strongest. It has not so much to do with raw power but years and years of knowledge which would allowed him to defeat either hokage's in a fight.

What dan said is rathe straight forward. I do know whether prime hiruzen can defeat ems madara or not, though i agree dan lived during prime hiruzen's time. What i do know is that hashirama is the best counter for ems madara so much that it makes sense why danosaid what he did. It would be extremely hard for anybody else to defeat madara without having counters for his abilities.

Example hashirama's bringer of darkness trolls sharingan based genjutsu. If it blinds the user so to speak and the user only see's pitch black. They obviously arent getting any eye contact to use genjutsu.

Secondly is the ability to create mokuton clones and we know the clones troll genjutsu

Thirdly, hashirama is a kage bunshin user and its his scroll that naruto scroll in part 1. Clones troll genjutsu

Mokuton allows the user the ability to fight from all ranges. Short/mid/long. By fighting mid/long range hashirama further trolls sharingan genjutsu because its short range.

He must be a very good suiton user and by hype he has a large chakra reserve to counter madara's very high katon jutsu's by himself.

He has the wood dragon, which as we know suppresses bijuu.

He is the husband of an uzumaki. Its very possible that mito thought hashirama uzumaki technique's just like how kushina thought minato. Its possible that its a similar contract technique that hashirama used to undo the genjutsu casted on the fox like what minato did to obito

Its possible that with the wood dragon he can also surpress chakra and not just bijuu chakra and this can cause madara trouble and perhaps limit his use of susano. Yamato has shown the ability to control to an extent kisame's chakra. Its possible that hashirama can do the same therefore further limiting madara.

Finally. Whilst Hiruzen is the strongest hokage due to him most likely being the most skilful/versatile overall because of experience with ninjutsu and other forms of ninja art, but more importantly because of the knowledge he has on the previous hokage's.

Hashirama is stronger than hiruzen if we were to pit them up against high level opponents i can see hashirama winning more fights than hiruzen, though its just hype. However if we were to revert this and put them back in their hokage position, hiruzen is above hashirama. Hashirama would have trouble facing his former student than any other random high level ninja

This. I completely agree. Hiruzen is obviously not more "powerful" in terms of strength.

[Senju Kinko]

Hmm... why? I asked Madara on who can stop him.. and he gave me the answer. Simple as that.

Worst come back ever Madara probably sour caking he couldn't beat hashirama with kurama help as were hiruzen sweep him in his edo immortal form lmao.

[serpiente clan]

I just realized this today, while debating on youtube. Kishimoto already proved hiruzen's title "God of shinobi" wrong.

People didn't want to be believe it through Madara Uchiha. But a more confirmed person has proved it wrong.

I bet you all know his name. Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you Tsunade's lover... DAN

This Man stated: Only hashirama could possibly stop Madara. LOL.

Funny part about that is.. Hashirama was way before Dan's time. lol. He was a jounin when Sarutobi was the Hokage ;p. And he had seen his prime. =3. :P:D

hahahaha i agreed kishi make to much bad troll in his manga

[Blaze Release]

Legendary Ace, im not getting involved i thought already said that, i just have my two cents.
There also seem to be this interview that Hashirama fans secretly had with kishi where in this interview kishi told them that he has changed his mind. Minato fans have trolled others into believing this nonsense and now hashirama fans are using the same tactic. :flaw:.

Upload this interview where kishi told you that he has changed his mind, because so far i can link you where in the manga it said that Hiruzen is the strongest hokage. Now its only fair that you link me where the manga said hashirama is the strongest hokage. Only then can you say the manga has contradicted itself and kishi has changed his mind.

So far the manga has made it clear to us that the 3rd kazekage is the strongest;



Nobody says anything about that. This same manga has said Hiruzen is the strongest hokage;



Yet everybody complains about hizuren.

When the manga says that Hashirama is the strongest hokage, then and only then can you say it has contradicted Hiruzen. Otherwise begone trolls

[LegendaryAce]

Why are you guys trying to make it seem like Hiruzen isnt powerful or doesnt have feats.. He has shown that he is way more on a higher scale then hashirama already. First take into regard that hiruzen is 70 years old, and then imaging what would happen if he was in his prime.

1. Hiruzen was so powerful and his chakra was so emense that when he began to fight orochimaru and he released his chakra, the atmosphere around him began to get heavier and the building around him began to crack. His chakra was said to be even more immense during his prime. The only other shinobi to have such an effect of the atmophere is the raikage (lighting release v2) and guy sensei after opening his 6-8 gate.




2. He has mastered more than 1000 jutsu and knows every jutsu ever created in the leaf village. Which includes every Taijutsu, Genjutsu, Kinjutsu, finjutsu, medical jutsu and Ninjutsu technique. Which means he knows all of hashirama's technique and how to counter them. And he is also able to use and has mastered medical ninjutsu. So when is comes to jutsu hiruzen is superior to hashirama.





3. Hiruzen has shown great sensing abilities, being able to track down the former Hokages under Hashirama Senju's Bringer-of-Darkness Technique.


4. He defeated two powerful edo tension summonings at once and also severely crippled orochimaru. All while maintaining his composure. There arnt many people who can fight two hokage edo summons and orochimaru at once and still win.

5. He escaped from mokuton (tree world) and stopped a raging water jutsu by tobirama.

6. Was said to be a GOD of Shinobi and the strongest shinobi to ever live in his prime.

1. Many people can do that - hiruzen does not beat hashirama chakra wise ( check some fights and see what I mean many people can do that)
2.most of the thousand could have been easy jutsu for everyday life ( I could say hashirama knows 1k jutsu due to his clans hype )
3. Great sensing? Thy were next to him screaming grab me grab me if they were at a range he would have died by being hit by a shiruken to the head)
4.defeating mindless zombies is easier than a real life think person at this case
5.that was a low scale mokuton even smaller than yamato also they never attacked him full power
6.i doubt he is the strongest shinobi to ever live also tell me how he counters all hashiramas jutsus

I am not downgrading hiruzen at all he was strong as hell in his prime but alot of people can beat him hashirama being one of them I dare say minato can beat him ftg + rasengan yes I Said it (frogs and all) - to back this up hiruzen himself hyped minato up I believe don't remember the exact words.

[KingHashirama]

I still participate however i like to see both sides just troll each other. Ill give my two cents though.
First is that both sides do not understand the manga, yep that is what i said. Both sides do not understand the manga.

Hiruzen was said to be the strongest and this echoed from the manga to the DB. Reason why Hiruzen was the strongest has nothing to do with the raw power that hashirama commands. Hiruzen was trained by both the 2 previous hokage's. Both were senju and this clan was said to be a clan with 1000 skills (or something like that). Hashirama/Tobirama passed on these skills to Hiruzen and that is why even at such an old age he is the only ninja in the series so far to command maximum stats in the 3 ninja arts. Secondly Hashirama left thousands of scrolls for the next generation of hokage's, most likely technique's from his clan (1000 skills by hype). Hiruzen was got his name the professor for leaning/understand all the technique's in these scrolls, something that i doubt even hashirama/tobirama couldve done because they didnt live to the age hiruzen did, but also the sarutobi clan were said to grasp technique's fairly quickly.

With the understanding of these technique's that were left in his possession he was quickly able to note the weaknesses of hashirama's bringer of darkness technique. Apart from blinding the opponent, all the others sense are not effected therefore smell, hear, touch and taste are the weaknesses of this technique and hiruzen took advantage of his understanding of his teacher's technique, which allowed him to overcome the technique and seal his previous teacher's.

You hear the quote "Knowledge is power". That is what hiruzen has over the previous hokage. Ill even give you a manga page, which might allow you to understand what im saying

Just read what jiraiya is thinking about here;

That is basically why hiruzen is the strongest. It has not so much to do with raw power but years and years of knowledge which would allowed him to defeat either hokage's in a fight.

What dan said is rathe straight forward. I do know whether prime hiruzen can defeat ems madara or not, though i agree dan lived during prime hiruzen's time. What i do know is that hashirama is the best counter for ems madara so much that it makes sense why danosaid what he did. It would be extremely hard for anybody else to defeat madara without having counters for his abilities.

Example hashirama's bringer of darkness trolls sharingan based genjutsu. If it blinds the user so to speak and the user only see's pitch black. They obviously arent getting any eye contact to use genjutsu.

Secondly is the ability to create mokuton clones and we know the clones troll genjutsu

Thirdly, hashirama is a kage bunshin user and its his scroll that naruto scroll in part 1. Clones troll genjutsu

Mokuton allows the user the ability to fight from all ranges. Short/mid/long. By fighting mid/long range hashirama further trolls sharingan genjutsu because its short range.

He must be a very good suiton user and by hype he has a large chakra reserve to counter madara's very high katon jutsu's by himself.

He has the wood dragon, which as we know suppresses bijuu.

He is the husband of an uzumaki. Its very possible that mito thought hashirama uzumaki technique's just like how kushina thought minato. Its possible that its a similar contract technique that hashirama used to undo the genjutsu casted on the fox like what minato did to obito

Its possible that with the wood dragon he can also surpress chakra and not just bijuu chakra and this can cause madara trouble and perhaps limit his use of susano. Yamato has shown the ability to control to an extent kisame's chakra. Its possible that hashirama can do the same therefore further limiting madara.

Finally. Whilst Hiruzen is the strongest hokage due to him most likely being the most skilful/versatile overall because of experience with ninjutsu and other forms of ninja art, but more importantly because of the knowledge he has on the previous hokage's.

Hashirama is stronger than hiruzen if we were to pit them up against high level opponents i can see hashirama winning more fights than hiruzen, though its just hype. However if we were to revert this and put them back in their hokage position, hiruzen is above hashirama. Hashirama would have trouble facing his former student than any other random high level ninja

Sorry but, If the person from Sarutobi's generation thinks he can't stop someone in the past.. then he can't.

As a hokage wise Hiruzen is above Hashirama?? no sir. Hashirama will reign the supreme Kage of all the Naruto world. Till Naruto uzumaki takes over. Reason being is hes the strongest.. Also, if we were to go with both the anime and the manga Tobirama and Hashirama above Hiruzen according to the Anbu. Just cause he taught him doesn't mean anything?? Sarutobi can't use S/T.. He can't use Mokuton.. right there and then Hashirama has the advantage.

Strongest = Power, Knowledge, techniques, bigger arsenal. and etc. Which is Hashirama over Sarutobi.

Also, your saying "He was the perfect match".... . He could do the same to Sarutobi.... Dan with comment made a remark, that EMS Madara and Hashirama are above Sarutobi.

Why are you guys trying to make it seem like Hiruzen isnt powerful or doesnt have feats.. He has shown that he is way more on a higher scale then hashirama already. First take into regard that hiruzen is 70 years old, and then imaging what would happen if he was in his prime.

1. Hiruzen was so powerful and his chakra was so emense that when he began to fight orochimaru and he released his chakra, the atmosphere around him began to get heavier and the building around him began to crack. His chakra was said to be even more immense during his prime. The only other shinobi to have such an effect of the atmophere is the raikage (lighting release v2) and guy sensei after opening his 6-8 gate.




2. He has mastered more than 1000 jutsu and knows every jutsu ever created in the leaf village. Which includes every Taijutsu, Genjutsu, Kinjutsu, finjutsu, medical jutsu and Ninjutsu technique. Which means he knows all of hashirama's technique and how to counter them. And he is also able to use and has mastered medical ninjutsu. So when is comes to jutsu hiruzen is superior to hashirama.





3. Hiruzen has shown great sensing abilities, being able to track down the former Hokages under Hashirama Senju's Bringer-of-Darkness Technique.


4. He defeated two powerful edo tension summonings at once and also severely crippled orochimaru. All while maintaining his composure. There arnt many people who can fight two hokage edo summons and orochimaru at once and still win.

5. He escaped from mokuton (tree world) and stopped a raging water jutsu by tobirama.

6. Was said to be a GOD of Shinobi and the strongest shinobi to ever live in his prime.

Yet, Hashirama could've destroyed the whole arena?? Sorry but Onoki did better and hes much older.

[Exaar]

Blaze has already ended this thread.

Unless someone can link a Manga scan where it says these words are said "hashirama is the strongest hokage", then this thread is over.

[KingHashirama]

Blaze has already ended this thread.

Unless someone can link a Manga scan where it says these words are said "hashirama is the strongest hokage", then this thread is over.

If Blaze ended it then...... Hashirama > Hiruzen.....

[TheSages456]

have the hiruzen fanboys countered the fact that people didnt believe in hashiramas power but believed in hiruzens wholeheartedly or are they just ignoring arguments that they cant counter like always? it seems to be the latter.

[Exaar]

If Blaze ended it then...... Hashirama > Hiruzen.....

*looks at reply*

No manga scan huh?.

Case closed.

[Blaze Release]

I dont think that you guys understand.

Manga says the 3rd kazekage is the strongest. FACT

Manga says the 3rd hokage is the strongest. FACT

Can somebody link me where it says the 1st hokage is the strongest, because i still havent gotten my hands on this manga chapter yet.

Ive linked you to the 3rd kazekage/hokage chapter's. Only fair you link me to the 1st's.

[Superior]

Legendary Ace, im not getting involved i thought already said that, i just have my two cents.
There also seem to be this interview that Hashirama fans secretly had with kishi where in this interview kishi told them that he has changed his mind. Minato fans have trolled others into believing this nonsense and now hashirama fans are using the same tactic. :flaw:.

Upload this interview where kishi told you that he has changed his mind, because so far i can link you where in the manga it said that Hiruzen is the strongest hokage. Now its only fair that you link me where the manga said hashirama is the strongest hokage. Only then can you say the manga has contradicted itself and kishi has changed his mind.

So far the manga has made it clear to us that the 3rd kazekage is the strongest;

Nobody says anything about that. This same manga has said Hiruzen is the strongest hokage;

Yet everybody complains about hizuren.

When the manga says that Hashirama is the strongest hokage, then and only then can you say it has contradicted Hiruzen. Otherwise begone trolls

This is why I don't like to use Character Statements to prove points too often. They almost always have a statement from someone else that contradicts them. Kishimoto isn't going to go through his manga page by page and check to see what he made each character say before he hypes up another character. He just says what he needs to say to add excitement; and if that means hyping the shit out of whoever is his current focus, then so be it.

Before Kishimoto started focusing so much on the Senju clan, most of you didn't consider Hashirama the god you think he is now. You think this now because Kishimoto has used a character (Madara) to hype the shit out Hashirama; just as he has used characters to hype people like Minato, and Hiruzen.

The difference between Kishimoto hyping up Hashirama and Hiruzen, is that he has shown us actual Manga proof that Hashirama deserves this hype. Through Madara- who is using Hashirama's jutsu- Kishimoto has shown us that Hashirama should be feared by many. Can the same be said for Hiruzen? What have we actually seen from him in the Manga that confirms his hype? Little to nothing, correct? Kishimoto just hypes characters as he sees fit; with no regard to what he has already said in previous Manga chapters.

That is why I judge characters through what they show us in the Manga, and not what other characters say about them. Character statements will always contradict.