LOLL Kishimoto proves Sarutobi's hype wrong, LMAO

[Owarij]

LMFAO what kind of crap is this? kishis portrayal of how only hashirama can beat madara isnt contradicted as of yet since none of the shinobi that madara is facing can beat him so your nonsense about dans statement being voided is countered right there. "only hashirama could ever stop me" isnt contradicted since none of the new shinobi(naruto, kakashi, guy) can beat him anyways.

naruto didnt beat mu by himself unless you crossed into some alternate dimension where naruto and his clones soloed the edo army with no other shinobi around.

Your ability to read and understand, what is wrong with it? A statementt like that isnt specific to the amount in a battle...if madara while fighting 5 kage said the onky person that csn stop him is hashirama',he is not talking about just a 1V1. ..You may want to take a look at what muu said 'Numbers dont matter, '.yet naruto was the one to engage him in combat and deliver critical hits. .....AS for dans statement,once again' the onky madara dan knows of is ems madara... Ems madara woukd have been defeated by onooki,gaara and naruto...proving dans statement incorrect...not onky that bout kabuto can easily deefeat EMS madara so i have no idea what you are talking about... on my phone btw, I apologize for any gramatical errors

[MickNerks]

2. Your picture is countered by this scan right when he goes against 2 of the people next to him on the wall ;p:

It only says that they are the best shinobi. Orochimaru says that hiruzen is HAILED as the God of Shinobi.

3. I agree he was the strongest of the 5 kages. I believe Sarutobi > 3rd Raikage. Due to his hype. But feats wise 3rd Raikage > Sarutobi..... and Kabuto is from the leaf ;x

Kabuto is not from the leaf. He is a war orphaned child, whos orphanage was on the out skirts of konoha. When he joined root he became a spy and traveled to many other villages. He wasnt recruited to spy in konoha until he began working for orochimaru, so the info gathered from him is gathers from many villages, not just the leaf.

5. You failed at trying to do the same. why?? Because what Iruka stated is what he heard.. not his opinion.. he casually said " He was said to be ".. But the anbu said " They are hailed as". see the difference??

Orochimaru says he was hailed as God of shinobi, he didnt say he was said to be.

[startup97]

I still participate however i like to see both sides just troll each other. Ill give my two cents though.
First is that both sides do not understand the manga, yep that is what i said. Both sides do not understand the manga.

Hiruzen was said to be the strongest and this echoed from the manga to the DB. Reason why Hiruzen was the strongest has nothing to do with the raw power that hashirama commands. Hiruzen was trained by both the 2 previous hokage's. Both were senju and this clan was said to be a clan with 1000 skills (or something like that). Hashirama/Tobirama passed on these skills to Hiruzen and that is why even at such an old age he is the only ninja in the series so far to command maximum stats in the 3 ninja arts. Secondly Hashirama left thousands of scrolls for the next generation of hokage's, most likely technique's from his clan (1000 skills by hype). Hiruzen was got his name the professor for leaning/understand all the technique's in these scrolls, something that i doubt even hashirama/tobirama couldve done because they didnt live to the age hiruzen did, but also the sarutobi clan were said to grasp technique's fairly quickly.

With the understanding of these technique's that were left in his possession he was quickly able to note the weaknesses of hashirama's bringer of darkness technique. Apart from blinding the opponent, all the others sense are not effected therefore smell, hear, touch and taste are the weaknesses of this technique and hiruzen took advantage of his understanding of his teacher's technique, which allowed him to overcome the technique and seal his previous teacher's.

You hear the quote "Knowledge is power". That is what hiruzen has over the previous hokage. Ill even give you a manga page, which might allow you to understand what im saying

Just read what jiraiya is thinking about here;

That is basically why hiruzen is the strongest. It has not so much to do with raw power but years and years of knowledge which would allowed him to defeat either hokage's in a fight.

What dan said is rathe straight forward. I do know whether prime hiruzen can defeat ems madara or not, though i agree dan lived during prime hiruzen's time. What i do know is that hashirama is the best counter for ems madara so much that it makes sense why danosaid what he did. It would be extremely hard for anybody else to defeat madara without having counters for his abilities.

Example hashirama's bringer of darkness trolls sharingan based genjutsu. If it blinds the user so to speak and the user only see's pitch black. They obviously arent getting any eye contact to use genjutsu.

Secondly is the ability to create mokuton clones and we know the clones troll genjutsu

Thirdly, hashirama is a kage bunshin user and its his scroll that naruto scroll in part 1. Clones troll genjutsu

Mokuton allows the user the ability to fight from all ranges. Short/mid/long. By fighting mid/long range hashirama further trolls sharingan genjutsu because its short range.

He must be a very good suiton user and by hype he has a large chakra reserve to counter madara's very high katon jutsu's by himself.

He has the wood dragon, which as we know suppresses bijuu.

He is the husband of an uzumaki. Its very possible that mito thought hashirama uzumaki technique's just like how kushina thought minato. Its possible that its a similar contract technique that hashirama used to undo the genjutsu casted on the fox like what minato did to obito

Its possible that with the wood dragon he can also surpress chakra and not just bijuu chakra and this can cause madara trouble and perhaps limit his use of susano. Yamato has shown the ability to control to an extent kisame's chakra. Its possible that hashirama can do the same therefore further limiting madara.

Finally. Whilst Hiruzen is the strongest hokage due to him most likely being the most skilful/versatile overall because of experience with ninjutsu and other forms of ninja art, but more importantly because of the knowledge he has on the previous hokage's.

Hashirama is stronger than hiruzen if we were to pit them up against high level opponents i can see hashirama winning more fights than hiruzen, though its just hype. However if we were to revert this and put them back in their hokage position, hiruzen is above hashirama. Hashirama would have trouble facing his former student than any other random high level ninja

You are a legend!
BTW Itachi rocks!

[Lrrrrr]

I do believe hiruzen was being owned until he had no choice but to use a move that kills him( that being a suicide move- last hope) also that isn't winning its drawing at most

Minato vs kyubi did minato win?

Sure he was being beaten, but he was still keeping up with Edo 1st and 2nd hokage, plus Oro - he was also old. It is considered winning because he made Oro run away. Not only that, it was his student, it's even harder. Minato did win - he beat Tobi and made him run away, and sealed the Kyubi. He saved the village, and defeated his enemies, so that's a win.

[MickNerks]

Sure he was being beaten, but he was still keeping up with Edo 1st and 2nd hokage, plus Oro - he was also old. It is considered winning because he made Oro run away. Not only that, it was his student, it's even harder. Minato did win - he beat Tobi and made him run away, and sealed the Kyubi. He saved the village, and defeated his enemies, so that's a win.

That is true.. He stopped orochimaru's plans and/or goals. and he achieved his goals, so hiruzen won.

[TheSages456]

Your ability to read and understand, what is wrong with it? A statementt like that isnt specific to the amount in a battle...if madara while fighting 5 kage said the onky person that csn stop him is hashirama',he is not talking about just a 1V1. ..You may want to take a look at what muu said 'Numbers dont matter, '.yet naruto was the one to engage him in combat and deliver critical hits. .....AS for dans statement,once again' the onky madara dan knows of is ems madara... Ems madara woukd have been defeated by onooki,gaara and naruto...proving dans statement incorrect...not onky that bout kabuto can easily deefeat EMS madara so i have no idea what you are talking about... on my phone btw, I apologize for any gramatical errors

so your claiming that madara thinks that he can take everyone in the narutoverse at once since the statement isnt number specific. apply some common sense to character statements and dont try to twist them either. mu meant that simply trying to overwhelm him with numbers isnt a good tactic due to jintons properties. he in no way said that he was invincible. a person with sufficient power and skill can defeat him.

without gaaras aid, the naruto clone gets obliterated by jinton. if you think someone giving you a platform to do something that you normally cant do isnt help then i have nothing to say to you.

ems madara uses his fan to intercept rasenshuriken. if your excuse for saying dans statement was wrong is an entire division nearly beating a holding back madara who didnt even have his full arsenal of weapons then just please stop posting.

if you think that kabuto can beat madara even though it was stated that either itachi or sasuke couldve killed him whenever they wanted then i again have nothing to say to you.

[shogun973]

good find hows that feel saru lovers lol

[Maverick Ninja]

Sarutobi's not the strongest ninja (although he's up there). But for sure the most badass. Fought multiple hokages plus Oro. His final battle was the best, all heart (no OP ). If he was a little younger he would have taken Oro with him. (Sasuke would have been screwed )

[Owarij]

so your claiming that madara thinks that he can take everyone in the narutoverse at once since the statement isnt number specific. apply some common sense to character statements and dont try to twist them either. mu meant that simply trying to overwhelm him with numbers isnt a good tactic due to jintons properties. he in no way said that he was invincible. a person with sufficient power and skill can defeat him.

without gaaras aid, the naruto clone gets obliterated by jinton. if you think someone giving you a platform to do something that you normally cant do isnt help then i have nothing to say to you.

ems madara uses his fan to intercept rasenshuriken. if your excuse for saying dans statement was wrong is an entire division nearly beating a holding back madara who didnt even have his full arsenal of weapons then just please stop posting.

if you think that kabuto can beat madara even though it was stated that either itachi or sasuke couldve killed him whenever they wanted then i again have nothing to say to you.

I do love how you're the one attempting to "twist" words, and put what you think the characters meant..
Muu said Numbers do not matter, Onooki is the ONLY person who can defeat him...word for word, there is nothing different to that than what madara and dan said....

The convo with dan while inside the barrier, dan stated that Only Hashirama can defeat him, to which some replied, is madara really that invincible? These statements do not hold solely for 1 versus 1 fights, as i said before, Look at madara's statement.. he said the only person who can stop him is Hashirama.. there is nothing there talking about one on one...

You want to go to extremities and thing madara or dan thought they'd fight everyone in the ninja world?
You think Hashirama literally is the only person that can defeat Madara? What about the so6p? someone madara very well knows existed? Don't be idiotic.. there are extremities for both cases, common sense would indicate that we not use them



As for you thinking Kabuto can't beat madara?
You must be joking... you do realize kabuto has like 30 edos at the clap of his hand? He Chose to have them on the battle field, instead of having a few with him to help fight itachi and sasuke... .There is no way itachi and sasuke would have one with lets say, Muu, Nagato (edos) and kabuto

[Sasuke Uchiha]

lol WOW. I can't believe this thread hit hottest threads... whats going on in NB these days...?

[mun]

its quite obvious hashirama> hiruzen, madara was alive when hiruzen was in his prime, he obviously knows his power and how strong he was

[mun]

most of these third hokage fans have no common sense, who was the most feared kage of all time? it was the first hokage no one was scared of the third

[roncato]

What are you talking about? Minato is the strongest Kage..

[Gingka Uzumaki]

[Zlad]

I'm getting tired of that people cannot understand that the only reason Hashirama can stop EMS Madara is because he surpresses chakra, I have always said it and guess what we saw in the latest chapters? Madara trying to supress two bijuu's chakra.

Hashirama was the strongest on his era, and Hiruzen was the god of shinobi. Dan said his opinion, but Iruka and Kabuto said facts and what people said about Hiruzen.

[End of Days]

i believe that if kishi were to write down a fight between hashirama and sarutobi the winner will emerge only after high difficulty.
if sarutobi is stronger then its only by a small margin.

[Noddy]

Firstly, the VIZ translation said that Hiruzen had superlative strength compared to the other Hokage, not that he was the strongest Hokage.

- Excessive or exaggerated.
- (a noun) an exaggerated mode of expression (usually of praise): "the critics lavished superlatives on it".

There's more than one meaning for it, but which one do you think makes most sense in light of what Kabuto said?

Secondly, the notion that he was the strongest Hokage in Konoha's history was not repeated in Databook 3; he was simply known as the most 'beloved' Hokage. This could indicate a degree of bias in what the people were saying, since Hiruzen was their favourite. It also points towards Kishimoto taking a different approach when describing Hiruzen. Thirdly, the people who were hyping Sarutobi were doing so under the impression that Shodai's feats were over exaggerated fairytales, as confirmed by Kabuto. Therefore, they wrote of these legends as myths and, subsequently, Sandaime Hokage received the left over praise. How could Hashirama's strength be so unbelievable to the masses if they'd already witnessed Hiruzen's 'God-like' feats? Kabuto's quote contradicts what Iruka said.

[LegendaryAce]

I'm getting tired of that people cannot understand that the only reason Hashirama can stop EMS Madara is because he surpresses chakra, I have always said it and guess what we saw in the latest chapters? Madara trying to supress two bijuu's chakra.

Hashirama was the strongest on his era, and Hiruzen was the god of shinobi. Dan said his opinion, but Iruka and Kabuto said facts and what people said about Hiruzen.

You know what I've noticed people fighting for hashirama or hiruzen always bring up the same hype and the one they root for gets the bigger hype ... Tbh it's all pointless if that's whats going to happen all the time to judge one persons hype you also take the others hype into consideration

God of shinobi- myth / fairy tale
Strongest hokage - best shinobi / strongest of his time
Professor - leader of senju (clan who mattered everything knows over 1k jutsu)

In hype they are about the same feats wise hiruzen loses so bad my god and in terms of what has been shown
Hashirama > hiruzen

Your argument of hashirama being the perfect counter is the same for hiruzen he was a perfect match up for the 3 heck even minato would have done better ..without drs he would have has nothing else he would have died ...if you disagree then tell me how minato won't be able to do a better job why hiruzen is the only one to handle that situation ... Tbh a few more shinobi can fit in this situation and have counters ...don't say hashirama is a perfect counter if you can't agree hiruzen was a perfect counter for oro and the Edos with drs

Hashirama

Class: medical nin

Nature types:
Mokuton
Suiton
Doton

Some jutsus :

Bringer of Darkness
Mokuton Clones
used contract seal on the anime
Kakuan Entering Society with Bliss-Bringing Hands
Wood dragon
great forest tree
wood locking wall
Kajukai Korin : advent of a world of flowering trees
jukan kotan : nativity of a world of trees
healing
Weapons used ( seen from anime,manga(and game - can ignore if u dont count)

he used a seal to summon weapons to fight with madara(game)
Swords(narutowiki)
Secret scroll
Shodai Hokage no Kubikazari

a few things: was leader of senju - clan of a thousand skills
the Senju were prodigious in all skills, from ninjutsu, to taijutsu, to genjutsu.

Prime/Old Sarutobi:

Nature types:

Fire Style
Earth Style

Some jutsus:

dead demon consuming seal
Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique
Shadow Clone Technique
Summoning Technique: Monkey King: Enma
Double Suicide Decapitation Technique(anime)
Earth dragon bullet
Earth flow river
Earth style wall
Fire bullet jutsu (dragon bullet jutsu)
Roof tile Shuriken
Taijutsu

+Knowledge and skill of performing EVERY technique (excluding kekai genkai) in the village
+ In his youth had a good amount of chakra reserves/stamina and was so skilled he used the minimum amount of chakra to do any tech
+god of shinobi


if we look at this hashirama has more threatening techniques besides if hiruzen were to use DDCs

Hashi/Hiruzen

Water > Fire

Water < earth

Earth = Earth

Cons:

Hashirama :
can reshape battlefield to his favor
can merge with trees ( ill guess he can sense people on the trees he makes-guess)
can over power hiruzen by using different nature types and use others as defense
can create strong clones to fight and they don't disappear easily like hiruzen

Hiruzen:
fights monkey like can fight on tress and has a monkey summon
good enough at tracking
can match hashirama with clones -
can use his knowledge of knowing about jutsu to create a good strategy

possible 1HKOs-

dead demon consumer seal
BOD + long range
if pollen hits hiruzen - it could be over

now the main factor in this fight would be who lasts longer and i here by say hashirama would be the favorite because of his healing and also he has quite alot of chakra at his disposal ( of course don't know how much chakra hiruzen had) + we still don't know what both could also have had ( the scroll hashirama used could have techs no one has seen before) - hiruzen could know counters for hashirama s techs
but by what i wrote and saw hashirama is favorite to win by hype and feats

[Rafeal brown]

Firstly, the VIZ translation said that Hiruzen had superlative strength compared to the other Hokage, not that he was the strongest Hokage.

- Excessive or exaggerated.
- (a noun) an exaggerated mode of expression (usually of praise): "the critics lavished superlatives on it".

There's more than one meaning for it, but which one do you think makes most sense in light of what Kabuto said?

Secondly, the notion that he was the strongest Hokage in Konoha's history was not repeated in Databook 3; he was simply known as the most 'beloved' Hokage. This could indicate a degree of bias in what the people were saying, since Hiruzen was their favourite. It also points towards Kishimoto taking a different approach when describing Hiruzen. Thirdly, the people who were hyping Sarutobi were doing so under the impression that Shodai's feats were over exaggerated fairytales, as confirmed by Kabuto. Therefore, they wrote of these legends as myths and, subsequently, Sandaime Hokage received the left over praise. How could Hashirama's strength be so unbelievable to the masses if they'd already witnessed Hiruzen's 'God-like' feats? Kabuto's quote contradicts what Iruka said.

*****! I'd like to see what the hiruzen fans will say about the bold part.....

[Whalelord]

[/spoiler]

None of the scans you showed effectively proved the point you were trying to make. What you were trying to say is that Oonoki, like Hiruzen complains about his old age and "passing his prime". In all of those scans, it is shown that Oonoki's old age troubles him at times, but I didn't see him once complain about it. In fact, Oonoki takes the pain as is and still fights through it; without complaining once.

Yes, he is old, and it does affect him from time to time. But he doesn't use it as an excuse like Hiruzen did in his fight with Orochimaru. Correct me if what I've said is wrong.

Whinning about your hip is not complaining? What planet you living on yes hiruzen yes he did complain about that what you gotta realize it was 3 against 1 , how many ninjas oonoki was fightning with how much support.

Hiruzen never showed fear in front of the 1st or 2nd he tolded them get ready for defeat.



He's taking on 3 kages which 2 of them have unlimited chakra with and immortal body and another who took the body of a youth.

[BloodSeed]

hiruzen > hashirama people got confused due to the stupidity of kishimoto trolling orochimaru against itachi. thats why since 13 y/o itachi>orochimaru as we seen by feats. people concluded that
orochimaru>hiruzen
itachi>>>hiruzen
nagato>>>>>>>hiruzen
tobi>>>>>hiruzen
madara>>>nagato or itachi
hashirama>=madara
therefore
hashirama>hiruzen
edo hashirama got excuse by fanboys that it was a mindless puppets.

look at madara if it wasnt for edo and renigan upgrade he died plenty of times first was when a clone naruto + gaara. then tsunade punch him which separate his chest to his body

maybe that fight against itachi by orochimaru was he was sick like when he tried to takeover sasuke or the only way to get itachi's body is through genjutsu which itachi excels thats why he was raped!

[Blaze Release]

Im not going to reply to any of those that have quoted me. Im not getting too involved in this fracas. Anyway kishi did proof Hiruzen's hype. Before the fight against orochimaru, he was claimed the strongest, that was just hype. However kishi have this hype feats when he matched the previous hokage's against hiruzen and Hiruzen beat them and died in the middle of sealing orochimaru. Kishi has backed this hype up when hiruzen was pitted against the former kage's.

Now im not saying that hiruzen in his prime/old age can defeat 2 hokage's because at that time the two hokage's were tools to orochimaru and tools are only as effective as the wielder. Still cannon that though the hokage's were being controlled and due to this were limited the same can be said about hiruzen.

We can to an extent speculate that, that fight was a watered down version if they were at their primes. The disadvantage to the previous hokage's was that they were controlled by somebody who didnt use them to their fullest capabilities. Possible because orochimaru himself didnt know what they could do. The disadvantage to hiruzen was that he was in his old age, his speed, chakra and strength has all decreased. The second disadvantage is that unlike hiruzen, the previous hokage's were in their youth, i suppose at the time of death, they had infinite chakra and their strength was still there. Add to this it was 2 vs 1. Hiruzen was at the disadvantage in that fight and still prevailed though at the cost of his life.

There is a reason why after Hiruzen got this hype, he was pitted against the 2 previous hokage's. That to me isn't a coincidence but rather kishi giving this hype, feat

[Superior]

Firstly, the VIZ translation said that Hiruzen had superlative strength compared to the other Hokage, not that he was the strongest Hokage.

- Excessive or exaggerated.
- (a noun) an exaggerated mode of expression (usually of praise): "the critics lavished superlatives on it".

There's more than one meaning for it, but which one do you think makes most sense in light of what Kabuto said?

Secondly, the notion that he was the strongest Hokage in Konoha's history was not repeated in Databook 3; he was simply known as the most 'beloved' Hokage. This could indicate a degree of bias in what the people were saying, since Hiruzen was their favourite. It also points towards Kishimoto taking a different approach when describing Hiruzen. Thirdly, the people who were hyping Sarutobi were doing so under the impression that Shodai's feats were over exaggerated fairytales, as confirmed by Kabuto. Therefore, they wrote of these legends as myths and, subsequently, Sandaime Hokage received the left over praise. How could Hashirama's strength be so unbelievable to the masses if they'd already witnessed Hiruzen's 'God-like' feats? Kabuto's quote contradicts what Iruka said.

At this point Noddy, im not even trying anymore. I have been telling them multiple times throughout this thread that character statements can, and will contradict from time to time. Yet no one wants to accept this as fact. I have asked these people more than once: Based on what we have seen from each character, excluding all hype, who would win if they were to fight? No one has been able to answer this question without bias, and all I keep hearing is "God of Shinobi" or "Prime Hiruzen". Just ridiculous at this point.

[Zlad]

You know what I've noticed people fighting for hashirama or hiruzen always bring up the same hype and the one they root for gets the bigger hype ... Tbh it's all pointless if that's whats going to happen all the time to judge one persons hype you also take the others hype into consideration

God of shinobi- myth / fairy tale
Strongest hokage - best shinobi / strongest of his time
Professor - leader of senju (clan who mattered everything knows over 1k jutsu)

In hype they are about the same feats wise hiruzen loses so bad my god and in terms of what has been shown
Hashirama > hiruzen

There is manga panels that show have proven Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage, and you have nothing. Come back with a manga panel with the proof that he was the strongest Hokage at all time, and not at his era.

I'm done because this is like a wall, you can't go any ways with fanboys.

[Superior]

There is manga panels that show have proven Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage, and you have nothing. Come back with a manga panel with the proof that he was the strongest Hokage at all time, and not at his era.

I'm done because this is like a wall, you can't go any ways with fanboys.

Please refrain from using the word fanboy. This is simply an intellectual conversation on two characters from the manga. No one is fanboying, and everyone is stating some kind of evidence to support their opinions. If you can't just have a conversation without name calling, just go elsewhere bro