Confirmed, non-debatable FACTS; that are still denied by some......

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

"This Susanoo is destruction-incarnate, everyone who has seen it, has died."

This proves Uchiha Madara had the Perfect Susanoo long before he attained the Rinnegan, hence...his EMS version is all that he needs to stabilise and Perfect his Susanoo.


"Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense, he is invincible".

Black Zetsu, the will of Uchiha Madara himself, who pertains all of his knowledge and original decisions, deemed the combination of those two weapons as invincible, hence.....the bearer of those weapons is invincible.


"I told you not to open your mouth so easily! You're just words and no actions, what someone like you says is worth nothing!"

Yes he has a great personality, yes he tries his very best, yes he is loyal to his village and yes.....he is super smart and elite! That still doesn't change the fact that Kakashi has never kept his word or promises, whether due to extremely bad luck, hesitation or pure lack of chance......Kakashi's words are not worth much.


"He was known as the God of shinobi!"

Even though we haven't seen it, and many people don't want to believe it, Sarutobi Hiruzen, in his prime, was the strongest shinobi to have ever lived. I have put this fact here because Kishimoto himself has confirmed it and it is certainly believable seeing that a 70 year old Hiruzen who had lost most of his strength and chakra to his old age, sealed away 2 former Hokage, Senju Hashirama and Senju Tobirama, took away all of Orochimaru's jutsu, putting a dent in his plans for years, and leaving him whimpering and screaming like a child, at 70! Edo Madara is not included in this because he is just a soul wrapped in dust and earth and not a living breathing human.


Edo Madara is the strongest being!

Whether living or dead, natural or abnormal, he has unlimited chakra, an indestructible and regenerative exterior, Mokuton, EMS, Rinnegan, Perfect Susanoo, years upon years of battle experience........Edo Madara is the strongest thus far and there is no denying it!

[Midday]

Lot's of people love to downplay Hiruzen in favour of Hashirama by claiming Kishi changed his mind, they then try to dismiss those who claim Hiruzen is stronger as fanboys.

[markdabomb22]

Agreed nice job

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

Agreed nice job

Thanks for the rep man!

[T Bogard]

What do you mean?

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

What do you mean?

Precisely what I wrote....

[Rinnegan No Obito]

I concur, you make valid points.

[nibilbhai]

Can anyone tell me how to add that 'Show' button in a thread?

[minator93]

I agree with the reast but not the following :

"Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense, he is invincible".

This would fail against Edo Madara, Tobi, Kakashi, Minato, Current Naruto and Hiruzen!

"I told you not to open your mouth so easily! You're just words and no actions, what someone like you says is worth nothing!"

This is just Obito playing the wannabe Savior

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

I agree with the reast but not the following :

"Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense, he is invincible".

This would fail against Edo Madara, Tobi, Kakashi, Minato, Current Naruto and Hiruzen!

"I told you not to open your mouth so easily! You're just words and no actions, what someone like you says is worth nothing!"

This is just Obito playing the wannabe Savior

Explain to me how someone beats this combination?



If you look back at all of Kakashis empty promises, you will realise this just as I have.

[Takos]

Explain to me how someone beats this combination?

Simply by waiting for Itachi to exhaust himself. Susanoo drains a freaking lot of him. It's not like he can use Totsuka all the time and you cannot avoid it - if that was so, then he would have used Totsuka on the very beginning against Nagato (who was immobile, making it so much easier to catch him with Totsuka).

[Shisui Namikaze]

Simply by waiting for Itachi to exhaust himself. Susanoo drains a freaking lot of him. It's not like he can use Totsuka all the time and you cannot avoid it - if that was so, then he would have used Totsuka on the very beginning against Nagato (who was immobile, making it so much easier to catch him with Totsuka).

Edit. Susanoo drains the users life force. That's a bit more intense.

[Takos]

Edit. Susanoo drains the users life force. That's a bit more intense.

Well... Susanoo is a double-edged sword.
Itachi fans overrate Susanoo as hell. It's the absolute last resort for Itachi and even if he uses it, he will collapse soon afterwards. Yet people think that non-edo Itachi would bring up Susanoo on the beginning of the fight and automatically stomp anyone with Totsuka. So wrong.

This is the same in case of Sasuke. His eyesight was deteriorating but slowly. Probably similar to how Kakashi's sight was getting worse.
Once he formed full Susanoo, though, he went half-blind almost right away.

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

Simply by waiting for Itachi to exhaust himself. Susanoo drains a freaking lot of him. It's not like he can use Totsuka all the time and you cannot avoid it - if that was so, then he would have used Totsuka on the very beginning against Nagato (who was immobile, making it so much easier to catch him with Totsuka).

So if Sasuke had waited for Danzo to exhaust himself with Izanagi, he would have beaten him? No, Danzo would have released his jutsu.

In the same sense, Itachi can withdraw his Susanoo whenever he wants. You are also underestimating the speed of Susanoo. Remember Sasuke's arrows? No one ever dodged them without sage modes threat perception.

Itachi got Nagato with the very first and last strike of Totsuka.

[Takos]

So if Sasuke had waited for Danzo to exhaust himself with Izanagi, he would have beaten him? No, Danzo would have released his jutsu.

What does Izanagi has to do with Susanoo?

In the same sense, Itachi can withdraw his Susanoo whenever he wants. You are also underestimating the speed of Susanoo.

He can withdraw it when he wants. But you know, Susanoo drain is not hours long. It's minutes if not seconds, at least for Itachi. How long do you think Itachi can keep on withdrawing and casting Susanoo back and forth before he is exhausted?
Also, arrows are not used by Itachi's Susanoo.

Itachi got Nagato with the very first and last strike of Totsuka.

Yeah, but this very first and last strike of Totsuka was performed after a long battle. If Totsuka could be used earlier, Itachi obviously WOULD have used it earlier.

These are Madaras words as he pours his will inside Zetsu: "I put my will inside this.......consider it as though half of it is me."

And are you freaking kidding me?

Will and conciousness is not the same. Black Zetsu is Madara'ish, but it doesn't mean he's Madara.

[nibilbhai]

Nice thread. Yet i didn't get that kakashi part.

[Codawg]

Well done, nicely made points. *hands a cookie for the moment*

[HadouKage]

"This Susanoo is destruction-incarnate, everyone who has seen it, has died."

This proves Uchiha Madara had the Perfect Susanoo long before he attained the Rinnegan, hence...his EMS version is all that he needs to stabilise and Perfect his Susanoo.


"Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense, he is invincible".

Black Zetsu, a form of consciousness of Uchiha Madara himself, who pertains all of his knowledge and original decisions, deemed the combination of those two weapons as invincible, hence.....the bearer of those weapons is invincible.


"I told you not to open your mouth so easily! You're just words and no actions, what someone like you says is worth nothing!"

Yes he has a great personality, yes he tries his very best, yes he is loyal to his village and yes.....he is super smart and elite! That still doesn't change the fact that Kakashi has never kept his word or promises, whether due to extremely bad luck, hesitation or pure lack of chance......Kakashi's words are not worth much.


"He was known as the God of shinobi!"

Even though we haven't seen it, and many people don't want to believe it, Sarutobi Hiruzen, in his prime, was the strongest shinobi to have ever lived. I have put this fact here because Kishimoto himself has confirmed it and it is certainly believable seeing that a 70 year old Hiruzen who had lost most of his strength and chakra to his old age, sealed away 2 former Hokage, Senju Hashirama and Senju Tobirama, took away all of Orochimaru's jutsu, putting a dent in his plans for years, and leaving him whimpering and screaming like a child, at 70! Edo Madara is not included in this because he is just a soul wrapped in dust and earth and not a living breathing human.


Edo Madara is the strongest being!

Whether living or dead, natural or abnormal, he has unlimited chakra, an indestructible and regenerative exterior, Mokuton, EMS, Rinnegan, Perfect Susanoo, years upon years of battle experience........Edo Madara is the strongest thus far and there is no denying it!

Cool but I saw one error (which is bolded)
Isn't Tsunade still alive?

[nibilbhai]

Cool but I saw one error (which is bolded)
Isn't Tsunade still alive?

She's about to die now. By using rest of her chakra as medicine for the kages.

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

Cool but I saw one error (which is bolded)
Isn't Tsunade still alive?

The statement was relevant when it was spoken.

[HadouKage]

@iSpeak the Truth: She isn't dead yet tho
@nibilbhai: We don't know that yet, let's let the manga tell us that, no?

[nibilbhai]

@nibilbhai: We don't know that yet, let's let the manga tell us that, no?

@HadouKage: Are you online from mobile?

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

@iSpeak the Truth: She isn't dead yet tho

When Madara said those words, at that precise moment, they were true. Anything after that is irrelevant.

[T Bogard]

"Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense, he is invincible".

Black Zetsu, a form of consciousness of Uchiha Madara himself, who pertains all of his knowledge and original decisions, deemed the combination of those two weapons as invincible, hence.....the bearer of those weapons is invincible.

I disagree with this. Eventhough Black Zetsu was created by Madara, he said it was much more weaker, and they don't seem to share consciousness since Madara asked to Obito what happened to Nagato, when we know that Black Zetsu normally should know what happened, like he asked also what happened since he was dead, something that black Zetsu should know. Also, Black Zetsu seeems not to even know Susanoo when he says "what's this?"



How could he not know Susanoo if he is Madaras consciousness? Like he didn't even knew Susanoo carries a lot of risks:


How can't he know that if he is Madara's consciousness?

Either they don't share consciousness like i think it's is, or simply Kishimoto messed up and didn't think about it back then

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

I disagree with this. Eventhough Black Zetsu was created by Madara, he said it was much more weaker, and they don't seem to share consciousness since Madara asked to Obito what happened to Nagato, when we know that Black Zetsu normally should know what happened, like he asked also what happened since he was dead, something that black Zetsu should know. Also, Black Zetsu seeems not to even know Susanoo when he says "what's this?"



How could he not know Susanoo if he is Madaras consciousness? Like he didn't even knew Susanoo carries a lot of risks:


How can't he know that if he is Madara's consciousness?

Either they don't share consciousness like i think it's is, or simply Kishimoto messed up and didn't think about it back then

It was white Zetsu that asked what it was. Black Zetsu's words could be loosely translated.

In the anime, which is the closest accurate translation of the manga, black Zetsu, upon seeing Susanoo says, "this is...."


What more can you question after Madara himself put his hand on Zetsu and transferred his will on to him? I said he was a form of his consciousness, meaning, he has his personality, knowledge, attitude and desires, obviously they aren't telepathically linked over the living world and the after life.......