Confirmed, non-debatable FACTS; that are still denied by some......

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

"This Susanoo is destruction-incarnate, everyone who has seen it, has died."

This proves Uchiha Madara had the Perfect Susanoo long before he attained the Rinnegan, hence...his EMS version is all that he needs to stabilise and Perfect his Susanoo.


"Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense, he is invincible".

Black Zetsu, the will of Uchiha Madara himself, who pertains all of his knowledge and original decisions, deemed the combination of those two weapons as invincible, hence.....the bearer of those weapons is invincible.


"I told you not to open your mouth so easily! You're just words and no actions, what someone like you says is worth nothing!"

Yes he has a great personality, yes he tries his very best, yes he is loyal to his village and yes.....he is super smart and elite! That still doesn't change the fact that Kakashi has never kept his word or promises, whether due to extremely bad luck, hesitation or pure lack of chance......Kakashi's words are not worth much.


"He was known as the God of shinobi!"

Even though we haven't seen it, and many people don't want to believe it, Sarutobi Hiruzen, in his prime, was the strongest shinobi to have ever lived. I have put this fact here because Kishimoto himself has confirmed it and it is certainly believable seeing that a 70 year old Hiruzen who had lost most of his strength and chakra to his old age, sealed away 2 former Hokage, Senju Hashirama and Senju Tobirama, took away all of Orochimaru's jutsu, putting a dent in his plans for years, and leaving him whimpering and screaming like a child, at 70! Edo Madara is not included in this because he is just a soul wrapped in dust and earth and not a living breathing human.


Edo Madara is the strongest being!

Whether living or dead, natural or abnormal, he has unlimited chakra, an indestructible and regenerative exterior, Mokuton, EMS, Rinnegan, Perfect Susanoo, years upon years of battle experience........Edo Madara is the strongest thus far and there is no denying it!

[Midday]

Lot's of people love to downplay Hiruzen in favour of Hashirama by claiming Kishi changed his mind, they then try to dismiss those who claim Hiruzen is stronger as fanboys.

[markdabomb22]

Agreed nice job

[T Bogard]

What do you mean?

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

Agreed nice job

Thanks for the rep man!

[Rinnegan No Obito]

I concur, you make valid points.

[minator93]

I agree with the reast but not the following :

"Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense, he is invincible".

This would fail against Edo Madara, Tobi, Kakashi, Minato, Current Naruto and Hiruzen!

"I told you not to open your mouth so easily! You're just words and no actions, what someone like you says is worth nothing!"

This is just Obito playing the wannabe Savior

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

What do you mean?

Precisely what I wrote....

[nibilbhai]

Nice thread. Yet i didn't get that kakashi part.

[Codawg]

Well done, nicely made points. *hands a cookie for the moment*

[nibilbhai]

Can anyone tell me how to add that 'Show' button in a thread?

[HadouKage]

"This Susanoo is destruction-incarnate, everyone who has seen it, has died."

This proves Uchiha Madara had the Perfect Susanoo long before he attained the Rinnegan, hence...his EMS version is all that he needs to stabilise and Perfect his Susanoo.


"Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense, he is invincible".

Black Zetsu, a form of consciousness of Uchiha Madara himself, who pertains all of his knowledge and original decisions, deemed the combination of those two weapons as invincible, hence.....the bearer of those weapons is invincible.


"I told you not to open your mouth so easily! You're just words and no actions, what someone like you says is worth nothing!"

Yes he has a great personality, yes he tries his very best, yes he is loyal to his village and yes.....he is super smart and elite! That still doesn't change the fact that Kakashi has never kept his word or promises, whether due to extremely bad luck, hesitation or pure lack of chance......Kakashi's words are not worth much.


"He was known as the God of shinobi!"

Even though we haven't seen it, and many people don't want to believe it, Sarutobi Hiruzen, in his prime, was the strongest shinobi to have ever lived. I have put this fact here because Kishimoto himself has confirmed it and it is certainly believable seeing that a 70 year old Hiruzen who had lost most of his strength and chakra to his old age, sealed away 2 former Hokage, Senju Hashirama and Senju Tobirama, took away all of Orochimaru's jutsu, putting a dent in his plans for years, and leaving him whimpering and screaming like a child, at 70! Edo Madara is not included in this because he is just a soul wrapped in dust and earth and not a living breathing human.


Edo Madara is the strongest being!

Whether living or dead, natural or abnormal, he has unlimited chakra, an indestructible and regenerative exterior, Mokuton, EMS, Rinnegan, Perfect Susanoo, years upon years of battle experience........Edo Madara is the strongest thus far and there is no denying it!

Cool but I saw one error (which is bolded)
Isn't Tsunade still alive?

[nibilbhai]

Cool but I saw one error (which is bolded)
Isn't Tsunade still alive?

She's about to die now. By using rest of her chakra as medicine for the kages.

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

Cool but I saw one error (which is bolded)
Isn't Tsunade still alive?

The statement was relevant when it was spoken.

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

I agree with the reast but not the following :

"Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense, he is invincible".

This would fail against Edo Madara, Tobi, Kakashi, Minato, Current Naruto and Hiruzen!

"I told you not to open your mouth so easily! You're just words and no actions, what someone like you says is worth nothing!"

This is just Obito playing the wannabe Savior

Explain to me how someone beats this combination?



If you look back at all of Kakashis empty promises, you will realise this just as I have.

[HadouKage]

@iSpeak the Truth: She isn't dead yet tho
@nibilbhai: We don't know that yet, let's let the manga tell us that, no?

[nibilbhai]

@nibilbhai: We don't know that yet, let's let the manga tell us that, no?

@HadouKage: Are you online from mobile?

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

@iSpeak the Truth: She isn't dead yet tho

When Madara said those words, at that precise moment, they were true. Anything after that is irrelevant.

[T Bogard]

"Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense, he is invincible".

Black Zetsu, a form of consciousness of Uchiha Madara himself, who pertains all of his knowledge and original decisions, deemed the combination of those two weapons as invincible, hence.....the bearer of those weapons is invincible.

I disagree with this. Eventhough Black Zetsu was created by Madara, he said it was much more weaker, and they don't seem to share consciousness since Madara asked to Obito what happened to Nagato, when we know that Black Zetsu normally should know what happened, like he asked also what happened since he was dead, something that black Zetsu should know. Also, Black Zetsu seeems not to even know Susanoo when he says "what's this?"



How could he not know Susanoo if he is Madaras consciousness? Like he didn't even knew Susanoo carries a lot of risks:


How can't he know that if he is Madara's consciousness?

Either they don't share consciousness like i think it's is, or simply Kishimoto messed up and didn't think about it back then

[HadouKage]

@iSpeakTruth: Ah, gotcha
@nibilbhai: Nah, didn't even know there was an app for this

[MickNerks]

I completely agree. Especially what you said about hiruzen and itachi's susanoo.

In his prime Hiruzen was the strongest shinobi to ever live.

And with the Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense itachi w/ susanoo is invincible.

plus reputation

[HadouKage]

I completely agree. Especially what you said about hiruzen and itachi's susanoo.

In his prime Hiruzen was the strongest shinobi to ever live.

And with the Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense itachi w/ susanoo is invincible.

plus reputation

Wish we had manga fact of this, anybody have where Kishi stated that he was the greatest ninja of his time?

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

I disagree with this. Eventhough Black Zetsu was created by Madara, he said it was much more weaker, and they don't seem to share consciousness since Madara asked to Obito what happened to Nagato, when we know that Black Zetsu normally should know what happened, like he asked also what happened since he was dead, something that black Zetsu should know. Also, Black Zetsu seeems not to even know Susanoo when he says "what's this?"



How could he not know Susanoo if he is Madaras consciousness? Like he didn't even knew Susanoo carries a lot of risks:


How can't he know that if he is Madara's consciousness?

Either they don't share consciousness like i think it's is, or simply Kishimoto messed up and didn't think about it back then

It was white Zetsu that asked what it was. Black Zetsu's words could be loosely translated.

In the anime, which is the closest accurate translation of the manga, black Zetsu, upon seeing Susanoo says, "this is...."


What more can you question after Madara himself put his hand on Zetsu and transferred his will on to him? I said he was a form of his consciousness, meaning, he has his personality, knowledge, attitude and desires, obviously they aren't telepathically linked over the living world and the after life.......

[Shisui Namikaze]

For number 2. Zetsu also said that it was impossible to break out of tsukiyomi without have your own ms. But sasuke did it with a base sharingan. So your statement is invalid and that's where I stopped reading.

[ghost nappa]

"This Susanoo is destruction-incarnate, everyone who has seen it, has died."
I suppose Madara was right about everyone who has seen it has died, but if Tsunade heals the kage, then it will no longer be true.

"Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense, he is invincible".
The actual weilder of the tools also acknowledges that every move has a weakness. For the record, Itachi is as smart as Madara is cocky. In this case it's space time in general, and both versions of kamui in particular. They ignore defence and hit the target anyways. Also, the shield is a shield and not armor. It doesn't protect the entire susanoo, so the susanoo would still be vulnerable to attacks from behind. Also, dark swamp and other attacks from below should be able to best the user. Poison gas might also be able to work. I doubt susanoo is air tight, or else the user would suffocate.

"I told you not to open your mouth so easily! You're just words and no actions, what someone like you says is worth nothing!"
I think this is the reason Kakashi rarely makes promises anymore. No matter what he does, something always goes horribly wrong.

"He was known as the God of shinobi!"
Yes, Kishi decided to change his mind here, but going from what we've seen and you said, Hiruzen is the stronger Hokage. Also, I don't think Madara was active anymore as a shinobi during his prime to witness it.

Edo Madara is the strongest being!
Probably, on account of being immortal. BM Naruto is more powerful than he is, but has no answer for his immortality and the fact that he now packs Hashi's anti-bijuu techs doesn't help either. There are others who can force him to regenerate, but they hit the same problem. The closest things I can think of for counters are Itachi(totsuka), Obito/kakashi(extremely hard to dodge kamui), and Minato (speed blitz with reaper death seal, and call it a draw). Maybe Hiruzen for the same reason as Minato, but lower speed hurts him. If Madara is around long enough to learn the rest of his rinnegan arsenal and becomes the juubi jinchuriki, they're just plain screwed.