Confirmed, non-debatable FACTS; that are still denied by some......

[nibilbhai]

First tell me How to add that 'show' button in a thread you dumbasses!!

[★T Bogard]

It was white Zetsu that asked what it was. Black Zetsu's words could be loosely translated.

My pic says otherwise unless you can show me a proof concerning it?

In the anime, which is the closest accurate translation of the manga, black Zetsu, upon seeing Susanoo says, "this is...."

Anime are fillers. The anime gave "Bringer of Darkness" to Tobirama, a jutsu used by Hashirama in the manga, and that's just one of the bunch of BS i can see in the anime

What more can you question after Madara himself put his hand on Zetsu and transferred his will on to him? I said he was a form of his consciousness, meaning, he has his personality, knowledge, attitude and desires, obviously they aren't telepathically linked over the living world and the after life.......

Like he also said white Zetsus are Hashirama's clones, yet they didn't know Susanoo? Also, you didn't answered my other question. How could Black Zetsu not know that Susanoo carries a lot of risk, if he has Madara's consciousness?

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

For number 2. Zetsu also said that it was impossible to break out of tsukiyomi without have your own ms. But sasuke did it with a base sharingan. So your statement is invalid and that's where I stopped reading.

White Zetsu said that......so lol!

[MickNerks]

Wish we had manga fact of this, anybody have where Kishi stated that he was the greatest ninja of his time?

The manga states that Hashirama was only the strongest ninja of his Era or Time
The manga states the Hiruzen in his Prime was the strongest shinobi to ever live.

Its not hard the see who kishi thinks is stronger.

[Shisui Namikaze]

White Zetsu said that......so lol!

-__________-

[Blaze Release]

There are loads of statements in the manga that contradict each other. You should take them with a pinch of salt.

[blazekev90]

Edo Madara is nothing more than a tool, it's Kabuto fault for not taking complete control over his body. Now it's all up to Orochimaru to do this correctly.

[Takos]

Explain to me how someone beats this combination?

Simply by waiting for Itachi to exhaust himself. Susanoo drains a freaking lot of him. It's not like he can use Totsuka all the time and you cannot avoid it - if that was so, then he would have used Totsuka on the very beginning against Nagato (who was immobile, making it so much easier to catch him with Totsuka).

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

My pic says otherwise unless you can show me a proof concerning it?
Anime are fillers. The anime gave "Bringer of Darkness" to Tobirama, a jutsu used by Hashirama in the manga, and that's just one of the bunch of BS i can see in the anime

Like he also said white Zetsus are Hashirama's clones, yet they didn't know Susanoo? Also, you didn't answered my other question. How could Black Zetsu not know that Susanoo carries a lot of risk, if he has Madara's consciousness?

I said the translation is accurate, not the events, and only some of them anyway.

What white Zetsu says is not bolded in black with the wierd font, that's black Zetsu talking, the other is white Zetsu. See it now?

[Shisui Namikaze]

Simply by waiting for Itachi to exhaust himself. Susanoo drains a freaking lot of him. It's not like he can use Totsuka all the time and you cannot avoid it - if that was so, then he would have used Totsuka on the very beginning against Nagato (who was immobile, making it so much easier to catch him with Totsuka).

Edit. Susanoo drains the users life force. That's a bit more intense.

[Takos]

Edit. Susanoo drains the users life force. That's a bit more intense.

Well... Susanoo is a double-edged sword.
Itachi fans overrate Susanoo as hell. It's the absolute last resort for Itachi and even if he uses it, he will collapse soon afterwards. Yet people think that non-edo Itachi would bring up Susanoo on the beginning of the fight and automatically stomp anyone with Totsuka. So wrong.

This is the same in case of Sasuke. His eyesight was deteriorating but slowly. Probably similar to how Kakashi's sight was getting worse.
Once he formed full Susanoo, though, he went half-blind almost right away.

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

Simply by waiting for Itachi to exhaust himself. Susanoo drains a freaking lot of him. It's not like he can use Totsuka all the time and you cannot avoid it - if that was so, then he would have used Totsuka on the very beginning against Nagato (who was immobile, making it so much easier to catch him with Totsuka).

So if Sasuke had waited for Danzo to exhaust himself with Izanagi, he would have beaten him? No, Danzo would have released his jutsu.

In the same sense, Itachi can withdraw his Susanoo whenever he wants. You are also underestimating the speed of Susanoo. Remember Sasuke's arrows? No one ever dodged them without sage modes threat perception.

Itachi got Nagato with the very first and last strike of Totsuka.

[★T Bogard]

I said the translation is accurate, not the events, and only some of them anyway.

Ok, if you admit it's accurate, isn't that the proof that either Black Zetsu and Madara don't share consciousness or simply Kishimoto didn't even knew what he would be doing back then? Like Blaze Release said, there are loads of statements in the manga that contradict each other. You should take them with a pinch of salt

What white Zetsu says is not bolded in black with the wierd font, that's black Zetsu talking, the other is white Zetsu. See it now?

Ok i see, but what is your proof that it's not actually the contrary?

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

Ok, if you admit it's accurate, isn't that the proof that either Black Zetsu and Madara don't share consciousness or simply Kishimoto didn't even knew what he would be doing back then? Like Blaze Release said, there are loads of statements in the manga that contradict each other. You should take them with a pinch of salt

Ok i see, but what is your proof that it's not actually the contrary?

These are Madaras words as he pours his will inside Zetsu: "I put my will inside this.......consider it as though half of it is me."

And are you freaking kidding me?

[Takos]

So if Sasuke had waited for Danzo to exhaust himself with Izanagi, he would have beaten him? No, Danzo would have released his jutsu.

What does Izanagi has to do with Susanoo?

In the same sense, Itachi can withdraw his Susanoo whenever he wants. You are also underestimating the speed of Susanoo.

He can withdraw it when he wants. But you know, Susanoo drain is not hours long. It's minutes if not seconds, at least for Itachi. How long do you think Itachi can keep on withdrawing and casting Susanoo back and forth before he is exhausted?
Also, arrows are not used by Itachi's Susanoo.

Itachi got Nagato with the very first and last strike of Totsuka.

Yeah, but this very first and last strike of Totsuka was performed after a long battle. If Totsuka could be used earlier, Itachi obviously WOULD have used it earlier.

These are Madaras words as he pours his will inside Zetsu: "I put my will inside this.......consider it as though half of it is me."

And are you freaking kidding me?

Will and conciousness is not the same. Black Zetsu is Madara'ish, but it doesn't mean he's Madara.

[★T Bogard]

These are Madaras words as he pours his will inside Zetsu: "I put my will inside this.......consider it as though half of it is me."

And are you freaking kidding me?

I already said what i wanted to say. It's up to you can believe what you want

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

What does Izanagi has to do with Susanoo?



He can withdraw it when he wants. But you know, Susanoo drain is not hours long. It's minutes if not seconds, at least for Itachi. How long do you think Itachi can keep on withdrawing and casting Susanoo back and forth before he is exhausted?
Also, arrows are not used by Itachi's Susanoo.


Yeah, but this very first and last strike of Totsuka was performed after a long battle. If Totsuka could be used earlier, Itachi obviously WOULD have used it earlier.



Will and conciousness is not the same. Black Zetsu is Madara'ish, but it doesn't mean he's Madara.

I am talking about the general,base speed of Susanoo. It is the same as those arrows.


It was a long battle because Itachi was still under Kabutos spell for most of that battle, then Itachi had to end Chibaku Tensei, the only opening was after that, and Nagato was sealed.

So Black Zetsu has Madaras knowledge, his will and he is also Madaraish but not the real guy? I agree 100% lol

[slaton02]

No, Itachi is not invincible just because Zetsu said that doesn't make it true at all. Hruzen was called god of shinobi by 1 person and you think this is true? Kabuto is the close So6p then because he said he was. Anyone that unlocks the 8th gate will become the strongest in the universe then. Why didn't you use these? Hashirama was so strong his power was believe to be a myth. Stop being baised to the people you like please. If your gonna say shit like this than use all of these too. Oh and didn't edo Madara say only Hashirama could stop him? Put that in there too.

[Slug Princess Tsunade]

The Yata mirror protects only from fire, earth, water and lighting based attacks.
Hiruzen is not even close to the strongest ninjas.

I agree with the other points.

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

No, Itachi is not invincible just because Zetsu said that doesn't make it true at all. Hruzen was called god of shinobi by 1 person and you think this is true? Kabuto is the close So6p then because he said he was. Anyone that unlocks the 8th gate will become the strongest in the universe then. Why didn't you use these? Hashirama was so strong his power was believe to be a myth. Stop being baised to the people you like please. If your gonna say shit like this than use all of these too. Oh and didn't edo Madara say only Hashirama could stop him? Put that in there too.

Madara=Black Zetsu said that

God of shinobi is a title, a title is not given by 1 person, it is earned by power and feats which are unknown to us as yet. Kishimoto has also confirmed this.

Edo Madara said Hashirama could stop him while he was alive with only his EMS, not with Hashirama inside him as well! That is what was meant.

[Artaya]

I don't understand what this argument is about. Everyone already agrees that Edo Madara is the strongest; he's a hacked character. Invincible, with all of his own, Pain, and the 1st Hokage's abilities.

On the other hand, how can you claim the Perfect Susanoo is unbeatable when it... was... clearly beaten. Why didn't the Uchiha win the war? Why did the 1st Hokage slap Madara down? Because what black Zetsu said was at the very least an exageration. Is it really strong? Of course. We've heard all kinds of hype about it. We heard a lot of hype about Kurama as well, at least as much as we heard about Susanoo.

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

On the other hand, how can you claim the Perfect Susanoo is unbeatable when it... was... clearly beaten. Why didn't the Uchiha win the war? Why did the 1st Hokage slap Madara down? Because what black Zetsu said was at the very least an exageration. Is it really strong?

[NarutoKage2]

Not a thread i agree with at all, although many people on this site share your views.
First, black zetsu also said ametarasu will not stop until anything it touches is incinerated, yet tobi took a direct hit and wasnt incinerated. Thus, a mere statement isnt an all binding divine truth.

And with the hiruzen thing again. How many times have i said it. Kishi also said tobi is madara, many times in the manga. Look what happened with that.
But ok, lets say what kishi says is what we judge. Fine. First, tell me what did I say in this statement:
'ispeaks thread was said to have been the greatest'.
Did i say your thread is the greatest? No, just that people say it is. The above line gives no opinion or statement of my own, just what others say. Amazing some people dont have the comprehension skills to get this. Truth is, the author of this manga doesnt care who the strongest hokage or shinobi is, thats just fanboys/girls on this site, who like wasting their time arguing over what might have happened in a cartoon.

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

Not a thread i agree with at all, although many people on this site share your views.
First, black zetsu also said ametarasu will not stop until anything it touches is incinerated, yet tobi took a direct hit and wasnt incinerated. Thus, a mere statement isnt an all binding divine truth.

And with the hiruzen thing again. How many times have i said it. Kishi also said tobi is madara, many times in the manga. Look what happened with that.
But ok, lets say what kishi says is what we judge. Fine. First, tell me what did I say in this statement:
'ispeaks thread was said to have been the greatest'.
Did i say your thread is the greatest? No, just that people say it is. The above line gives no opinion or statement of my own, just what others say. Amazing some people dont have the comprehension skills to get this. Truth is, the author of this manga doesnt care who the strongest hokage or shinobi is, thats just fanboys/girls on this site, who like wasting their time arguing over what might have happened in a cartoon.

Well Obito obviously used Izanagi, I mean there's a reason he has a collection of a hundred Sharingans in his lab, that was his fail safe!

And we will all just have to wait and see what he was like in his prime then won't we? Until then, he remains; the "God of shinobi".

[NarutoKage2]

Well Obito obviously used Izanagi, I mean there's a reason he has a collection of a hundred Sharingans in his lab, that was his fail safe!

And we will all just have to wait and see what he was like in his prime then won't we? Until then, he remains; the "God of shinobi".

Because one character said so? You guys are hilarious. And btw, by your logic, tobi is still madara.