Confirmed, non-debatable FACTS; that are still denied by some......

[kellzfresh]

Agreed
"Senju and uchiha, hashirama and madara, naruto and sasuke. Naruto I can see the first hokage in you his will of fire lives in you. You two will be the next chosen by FATE"
Will of fire and will of hatred
Naruto and Sasuke

Sorry but hashirama still > hiruzen

[iSpeak the Truth -in detention-]

Not while fighting Madara at the VotE. So his EMS may not have been enough to stabilize Susano'o, and if it was then PS just wasn't enough. Madara MAY have been the one to kill Hashirama, but that happened long after.

Most of Madara's contemporaries have died, even he himself.

Madara simply said, whoever has seen it; has died. Not "they were killed by it".

The shield doesn't cover everything. And if so, doesn't that mean he could beat Madara while in Susano'o? One of the two must be wrong.

Invincible does not equal strongest. Susanoo on its own is one of the best shields, on top of which he has the Yata, which deflects everything. Susanoo is also high powered and super fast, no one can escape its attack without some sort of shunshin jutsu, or sage mode, unless they have speed to match the Raikage and Naruto.

He has not failed in his promise to serve the village unto death, he can and HAS. Name one person who served under him in battle who died in that fight since the series started.

That was the only dangerous mission we have seen them go on, Kakashi has failed at keeping his word many times! He opens his mouth too easily.

Strongest doesn't mean undefeatable.

Exactly....

[Darth Wignus]

I pretty much have to agree.

[Piratefish]

Madara simply said, whoever has seen it; has died. Not "they were killed by it".

It's him deliberately talking himself up though, he has killed no named character with it and it's not even certain he ever HAS killed anyone with it before.

Invincible does not equal strongest. Susanoo on its own is one of the best shields, on top of which he has the Yata, which deflects everything. Susanoo is also high powered and super fast, no one can escape its attack without some sort of shunshin jutsu, or sage mode, unless they have speed to match the Raikage and Naruto.

Very true, though I'm convinced even it's incvincibility may not be certain. Susano'o's Sword is nearly unsurpassed as an offense, but also short-ranged and has only ever sealed fairly easy targets. Nagato couldn't walk (at least not well, and there's no evidence of him even moving) and the Orochi Hydra Creature wasn't very much more speedy than several of your average, fairly large summons.

The Yata deflects everything he can block with it, true, but he can't block 360 degrees around him at all times. It's among the greatest defenses in the series, but not invincible, even in conjunction with Susano'o.

That was the only dangerous mission we have seen them go on, Kakashi has failed at keeping his word many times! He opens his mouth too easily.

True, but since Obito, maybe, and definitely since Rin, he has largely succeded in defending his comrades, even in battles of a far higher level than he had any right to expect.

Exactly....

Ah, you're not one of those who insist Madara is impossible to take down for any single person, I was getting worried. Naruto is gaining fast though.

[theRPGdude]

Always I am impressed. My thread vs yours and your always comes at top man. Your the best!

[bobisacoolguy]

"This Susanoo is destruction-incarnate, everyone who has seen it, has died."

This proves Uchiha Madara had the Perfect Susanoo long before he attained the Rinnegan, hence...his EMS version is all that he needs to stabilise and Perfect his Susanoo.


"Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense, he is invincible".

Black Zetsu, the will of Uchiha Madara himself, who pertains all of his knowledge and original decisions, deemed the combination of those two weapons as invincible, hence.....the bearer of those weapons is invincible.


"I told you not to open your mouth so easily! You're just words and no actions, what someone like you says is worth nothing!"

Yes he has a great personality, yes he tries his very best, yes he is loyal to his village and yes.....he is super smart and elite! That still doesn't change the fact that Kakashi has never kept his word or promises, whether due to extremely bad luck, hesitation or pure lack of chance......Kakashi's words are not worth much.


"He was known as the God of shinobi!"

Even though we haven't seen it, and many people don't want to believe it, Sarutobi Hiruzen, in his prime, was the strongest shinobi to have ever lived. I have put this fact here because Kishimoto himself has confirmed it and it is certainly believable seeing that a 70 year old Hiruzen who had lost most of his strength and chakra to his old age, sealed away 2 former Hokage, Senju Hashirama and Senju Tobirama, took away all of Orochimaru's jutsu, putting a dent in his plans for years, and leaving him whimpering and screaming like a child, at 70! Edo Madara is not included in this because he is just a soul wrapped in dust and earth and not a living breathing human.


Edo Madara is the strongest being!

Whether living or dead, natural or abnormal, he has unlimited chakra, an indestructible and regenerative exterior, Mokuton, EMS, Rinnegan, Perfect Susanoo, years upon years of battle experience........Edo Madara is the strongest thus far and there is no denying it!

You contradicted yourself

[KingHashirama]

"Said to be strongest Hokage".... goes to hell with that.

[Amaterasuice]

If it's undebatable facts, why post it?

[theRPGdude]

If it's undebatable facts, why post it?

Read the rest of the title.

[Piratefish]

"Said to be strongest Hokage".... goes to hell with that.

And yet he beat both of them.

[bender]

"This Susanoo is destruction-incarnate, everyone who has seen it, has died."

This proves Uchiha Madara had the Perfect Susanoo long before he attained the Rinnegan, hence...his EMS version is all that he needs to stabilise and Perfect his Susanoo.

if this is true how did harashima survive/win???.....so ethier he didnt have it until rinnegan or it got beat by trees

[killerman82]

Nicely done

[bender]

"This Susanoo is destruction-incarnate, everyone who has seen it, has died."

This proves Uchiha Madara had the Perfect Susanoo long before he attained the Rinnegan, hence...his EMS version is all that he needs to stabilise and Perfect his Susanoo.

if this is true how did harashima survive/win???.....so ethier he didnt have it until rinnegan or it got beat by trees.

[Gokillerz]

nice topic by the way...

[bender]

Madara simply said, whoever has seen it; has died. Not "they were killed by it".

This just like saying everybody who has seen a rasengan has died doesnt mean they were killed by it

[Namikaze Haru]

fail thread

"This Susanoo is destruction-incarnate, everyone who has seen it, has died."

if PS is EMS and no one had survived it then why the hell did he lose to hashirama

"Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense, he is invincible".

there is a difference between will and conscience. answer this, would u have known he was madara will before we were shown? he is nothing like madara. even now he still does not remind me of madara. personality wise and so on. black zetzu was taking orders from obito, would madara ever do that? like i said will and conscience are different.

and no itachi is not invincible. 1st of all so many ppl can avoid totsuka (A,Minato,Naruto). second of yata can block all attacks but how will it deals with attacks like chibaku tensei (nagato) or mokuton (hashirama).

and if itachi's susanoo is invincible, then what is madara's PS

"I told you not to open your mouth so easily! You're just words and no actions, what someone like you says is worth nothing!"

id love you to see keep every promise u make, up to now naruto still hasn't brought sasuke back to konoha

"He was known as the God of shinobi!"

you know who else was the god of shinobi, the sage of six paths, u know why coz he beat the 10 tails and created the moon. his offsprings are the strongest shinobi up to date (Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki)

hiruzen was called the god of shinobi because he knew all konoha jutsu yet he could not use rasengan, raikiri, mokuton, sharingan, sage mode, edo tensei...

when they say he knew all jutsu, they are talking about basic jutsus like shadow clones and such and he was a genius with them. both minato and hashirama own hiruzen.

we have seen many edos lose coz they were not in control of themselves (hashirama,tobirama,nagato) i think they know their abilities better than some low life who can't fight for himself.

Edo Madara is the strongest being!

yet he himself still claims that he would lose to hashirama. and if he is the strongest then why does he need hashirama's power? and what the sage of six paths, u know the man who madara is trying to be.

[UchihaKira]

Completely agree with all of this, some people just can't accept facts. + rep

[lIlIlIl]

the first fact is the only one i disagree with, because he said that evryone that has seen his perfect susano has died, and if he had it long befre he had rinnegan then that means that he had it when he fought hashimara and we all know that hashimara didnt die on their battle, unless madara killed him with his perfect susano during the first shinobi war wich is very unlikely

[lIlIlIl]

fail thread

"This Susanoo is destruction-incarnate, everyone who has seen it, has died."

if PS is EMS and no one had survived it then why the hell did he lose to hashirama

"Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense, he is invincible".

there is a difference between will and conscience. answer this, would u have known he was madara will before we were shown? he is nothing like madara. even now he still does not remind me of madara. personality wise and so on. black zetzu was taking orders from obito, would madara ever do that? like i said will and conscience are different.

and no itachi is not invincible. 1st of all so many ppl can avoid totsuka (A,Minato,Naruto). second of yata can block all attacks but how will it deals with attacks like chibaku tensei (nagato) or mokuton (hashirama).

and if itachi's susanoo is invincible, then what is madara's PS

"I told you not to open your mouth so easily! You're just words and no actions, what someone like you says is worth nothing!"

id love you to see keep every promise u make, up to now naruto still hasn't brought sasuke back to konoha

"He was known as the God of shinobi!"

you know who else was the god of shinobi, the sage of six paths, u know why coz he beat the 10 tails and created the moon. his offsprings are the strongest shinobi up to date (Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki)

hiruzen was called the god of shinobi because he knew all konoha jutsu yet he could not use rasengan, raikiri, mokuton, sharingan, sage mode, edo tensei...

when they say he knew all jutsu, they are talking about basic jutsus like shadow clones and such and he was a genius with them. both minato and hashirama own hiruzen.

we have seen many edos lose coz they were not in control of themselves (hashirama,tobirama,nagato) i think they know their abilities better than some low life who can't fight for himself.

Edo Madara is the strongest being!

yet he himself still claims that he would lose to hashirama. and if he is the strongest then why does he need hashirama's power? and what the sage of six paths, u know the man who madara is trying to be.

hiruzen is the strongest hokage get over it kishi wrote it himself just accept that facts and the only reason why you think hashimara and minato is the strongest because of hype from the fight against madara and the kyuby fight wich we have never seen . accept FACTS not HYPE

[IIB7252]

"This Susanoo is destruction-incarnate, everyone who has seen it, has died."

This proves Uchiha Madara had the Perfect Susanoo long before he attained the Rinnegan, hence...his EMS version is all that he needs to stabilise and Perfect his Susanoo.


"Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense, he is invincible".

Black Zetsu, the will of Uchiha Madara himself, who pertains all of his knowledge and original decisions, deemed the combination of those two weapons as invincible, hence.....the bearer of those weapons is invincible.


"I told you not to open your mouth so easily! You're just words and no actions, what someone like you says is worth nothing!"

Yes he has a great personality, yes he tries his very best, yes he is loyal to his village and yes.....he is super smart and elite! That still doesn't change the fact that Kakashi has never kept his word or promises, whether due to extremely bad luck, hesitation or pure lack of chance......Kakashi's words are not worth much.


"He was known as the God of shinobi!"

Even though we haven't seen it, and many people don't want to believe it, Sarutobi Hiruzen, in his prime, was the strongest shinobi to have ever lived. I have put this fact here because Kishimoto himself has confirmed it and it is certainly believable seeing that a 70 year old Hiruzen who had lost most of his strength and chakra to his old age, sealed away 2 former Hokage, Senju Hashirama and Senju Tobirama, took away all of Orochimaru's jutsu, putting a dent in his plans for years, and leaving him whimpering and screaming like a child, at 70! Edo Madara is not included in this because he is just a soul wrapped in dust and earth and not a living breathing human.


Edo Madara is the strongest being!

Whether living or dead, natural or abnormal, he has unlimited chakra, an indestructible and regenerative exterior, Mokuton, EMS, Rinnegan, Perfect Susanoo, years upon years of battle experience........Edo Madara is the strongest thus far and there is no denying it!

As always great thread by you...
I agree with most of the things that you have said....EXCEPT last 2 things....:-)
+ rep

[Uchiha Legacy]

Can't we all just agree to that fact that Itachi is invincible "while" his Susano'o is active?

[Amaterasuice]

Read the rest of the title.

I did read it, but if it was undebatable, people wouldn't deny it because it's 100% true.

[Piratefish]

Can't we all just agree to that fact that Itachi is invincible "while" his Susano'o is active?

No.

The Yata deflects everything he can block with it, true, but he can't block 360 degrees around him at all times. It's among the greatest defenses in the series, but not invincible, even in conjunction with Susano'o.

[Uchiha Legacy]

No.

Obviously, you never heard of reaching a middle ground. Sure you could change anything with setting biased conditions.

My point is you can't name anything that will go through both Susano'o and Yata Mirror.

EDIT: Anyway people don't realize it's not Itachi himself who is invincible he could always still die from old age or a sickness(like he did) even if he was fully encased inside Yata Mirror.

[Piratefish]

Obviously, you never heard of reaching a middle ground. Sure you could change anything with setting biased conditions.

My point is you can't name anything that will go through both Susano'o and Yata Mirror.

EDIT: Anyway people don't realize it's not Itachi himself who is invincible he could always still die from old age or a sickness(like he did) even if he was fully encased inside Yata Mirror.

Dude, I've already posted on EXACTLY what you're talking about: Both attacks that can get past even Susano'o at full power with the shield ready, which has to (or should) be two or even three-pronged, AND counters to Itachi inside Susano'o in general. Read the thread.