Chiyo vs Zabuza

[ShaneEyyy]

Now obviously Chiyo is the stronger of the 2, being a puppet master and a top medical ninja, but I think Zabuza may have a chance here. Honestly I don't know if he can actually win because Chiyo's jutsu's are very powerful, but she hasn't shown sensing abilities or Sharingan to react and locate Zabuza in the mist.

If Zabuza puts up mist, which he obviously will because he did against Kakashi about 3 feet away from him in their second battle and when he was an edo, did it against 10,000+ shinobi. Then I can't really see if she can sense Zabuza if even Kakashi with a 3 tomoe Sharingan barely could in the mist, plus even if she can, how is she going to dodge and react to his clone feints?

Its a tough match in my eyes, you really have to think, but do you think Zabuza can pull it off?

Sorry wrong section

[Deadai]

It depends if Chiyo can get her hits in prior to hidden mist jutsu being used.

[ShaneEyyy]

It depends if Chiyo can get her hits in prior to hidden mist jutsu being used.

But that is very unlikely because Zabuza put up the mist against over 10,000 shinobi, which included Might Gai who is a lot faster than Chiyo.

[Prime Rib]

Nope chiyo is a bad match up against zabuza, she isnt fast enough to hang with zabuza

[u wanna die]

hahah... nice apology in the end

[Vanderfee]

Wow, this sounds interesting. And a first.
Now who should I root for?

Heart says Chiyo, mind says Zabuza.

[ShaneEyyy]

Wow, this sounds interesting. And a first.
Now who should I root for?

Heart says Chiyo, mind says Zabuza.

Yea same here, like since I know Chiyo is the stronger of the 2 overall, I want to say her, but in my mind I know now that Zabuza can take her.

[Piratefish]

Puppet-users have a whole range of tactical options available for any circumstance. My initial impression was that Zabuza would take this, but after thinking it over I changed my mind.

Chiyo has 10 legendary puppets with unique abilities (cant exactly recall what), one of them may be able to do something about the mist. If not, it doesn't really matter. Her excellent reflexes combined with the surprise Zabuza will face at the guarding formation of the puppets will be enough to take him. Remember, he's not seen her unseal them, and even WITH experience fighting puppeteers, which he may or may not have, 10 puppets at once are a rarity.

Chiyo takes this, though she'll probably be forced to use her strongest weapons she won't have much trouble. Mid diff.

[ShaneEyyy]

Puppet-users have a whole range of tactical options available for any circumstance. My initial impression was that Zabuza would take this, but after thinking it over I changed my mind.

Chiyo has 10 legendary puppets with unique abilities (cant exactly recall what), one of them may be able to do something about the mist. If not, it doesn't really matter. Her excellent reflexes combined with the surprise Zabuza will face at the guarding formation of the puppets will be enough to take him. Remember, he's not seen her unseal them, and even WITH experience fighting puppeteers, which he may or may not have, 10 puppets at once are a rarity.

Chiyo takes this, though she'll probably be forced to use her strongest weapons she won't have much trouble. Mid diff.

However, it may be a Water Clone that would move in first to see the puppets, then hidden in the mist, Zabuza could use his Giant Vortex Jutsu (powerful A-rank tech) and hit atleast some of the puppets, this jutsu can hollow out the ground with tremendous force, when it hit Zabuza (without even being hit yet) basically left him defenceless, and it takes a lot to get him down, seeing that when Gato's men impaled him countless times with swords and pitchforks, he still managed to charge full speed to take Gato down, so the Giant Vortex Jutsu can destroy some of the puppets, which may cancel at atleast some of their moves.

I'm literally trying to find any argument here, but you changed my mind, I don't know if Zabuza can win, I'm leaning more towards Chiyo

[Sunagura]

However, it may be a Water Clone that would move in first to see the puppets, then hidden in the mist, Zabuza could use his Giant Vortex Jutsu (powerful A-rank tech) and hit atleast some of the puppets, this jutsu can hollow out the ground with tremendous force, when it hit Zabuza (without even being hit yet) basically left him defenceless, and it takes a lot to get him down, seeing that when Gato's men impaled him countless times with swords and pitchforks, he still managed to charge full speed to take Gato down, so the Giant Vortex Jutsu can destroy some of the puppets, which may cancel at atleast some of their moves.

I'm literally trying to find any argument here, but you changed my mind, I don't know if Zabuza can win, I'm leaning more towards Chiyo

chiyo can use the justu that i show in my above post, i can see it take the water justu and the mist with no problem

[ShaneEyyy]

chiyo can use the justu that i show in my above post, i can see it take the water justu and the mist with no problem

It's a B-rank Wind Style move, it's not taking Giant Vortex Jutsu, also Chiyo would have to sense to use it simultaneously.

[Sunagura]

It's a B-rank Wind Style move, it's not taking Giant Vortex Jutsu, also Chiyo would have to sense to use it simultaneously.

if you have S ranks justu doesn't mean it stronger, it difficult. if you talk about rank chiyo have S rank just and zabuza have nonn. does that mean chiyo win automatic?

and the water jutsu tok so long to make it tok 47 hand seals and he will be dead before he even finish that.

[Piratefish]

However, it may be a Water Clone that would move in first to see the puppets, then hidden in the mist, Zabuza could use his Giant Vortex Jutsu (powerful A-rank tech) and hit atleast some of the puppets, this jutsu can hollow out the ground with tremendous force, when it hit Zabuza (without even being hit yet) basically left him defenceless, and it takes a lot to get him down, seeing that when Gato's men impaled him countless times with swords and pitchforks, he still managed to charge full speed to take Gato down, so the Giant Vortex Jutsu can destroy some of the puppets, which may cancel at atleast some of their moves.

I'm literally trying to find any argument here, but you changed my mind, I don't know if Zabuza can win, I'm leaning more towards Chiyo

Yeah, he'll start out with Water Clones for sure, but we don't KNOW that those posess information transfer abilities. If they do, he may have a shot. He might even have a better chance if he dispells the mist (puppets don't exactly react like regular people when faced with gigantic swords to the jugular), and he can instead focus on grinding them (and the granny) to paste.

I do believe Chiyo will win, but it's also entirely possible she'll assume she's killed Zabuza after giving him enough punishment to take down a NORMAL ninja. Silly Chiyo! Don't you know RIDICULOUS amounts of OVERKILL is the only way to take down Zabuza?


But yeah, you were able to change your mind in a matchup involving your favorite character? That's really ****ing rare around here. Creds go to you.

[ShaneEyyy]

Yeah, he'll start out with Water Clones for sure, but we don't KNOW that those posess information transfer abilities. If they do, he may have a shot. He might even have a better chance if he dispells the mist (puppets don't exactly react like regular people when faced with gigantic swords to the jugular), and he can instead focus on grinding them (and the granny) to paste.

I do believe Chiyo will win, but it's also entirely possible she'll assume she's killed Zabuza after giving him enough punishment to take down a NORMAL ninja. Silly Chiyo! Don't you know RIDICULOUS amounts of OVERKILL is the only way to take down Zabuza?


But yeah, you were able to change your mind in a matchup involving your favorite character? That's really ****ing rare around here. Creds go to you.

That's true, however knowing his incredible sensing abilities with sound, he should be able to sense other presense's, in other words, sense more than 1 person/thing in the area, giving him an idea that somethings up. Plus Chiyo was famous, so he'd probably already know that they are puppets. So with that being said it is possible Zabuza has a shot, actually a good chance, but Chiyo would win more times out of ten than Zabuza.

Haha yeah, it's rare I change my mind because most people on here can't use logic in their explanations, like I made a thread Zabuza vs Darui and people told me Darui would win because he could "just use Black Panther through the mist", even though with mist, the water molecules are to spread out to allow things to be conducted into it, and when Kakashi and Ameyuri Ringo used lightning in the mist, none of it got conducted.

Maybe I am being too logical with that haha but yea, who do you think would win, Zabuza or Darui?

[Piratefish]

That's true, however knowing his incredible sensing abilities with sound, he should be able to sense other presense's, in other words, sense more than 1 person/thing in the area, giving him an idea that somethings up. Plus Chiyo was famous, so he'd probably already know that they are puppets. So with that being said it is possible Zabuza has a shot, actually a good chance, but Chiyo would win more times out of ten than Zabuza.

Haha yeah, it's rare I change my mind because most people on here can't use logic in their explanations, like I made a thread Zabuza vs Darui and people told me Darui would win because he could "just use Black Panther through the mist", even though with mist, the water molecules are to spread out to allow things to be conducted into it, and when Kakashi and Ameyuri Ringo used lightning in the mist, none of it got conducted.

Maybe I am being too logical with that haha but yea, who do you think would win, Zabuza or Darui?

I'd say Darui, on the basis of him being:

Roughly level with Zabuza in kenjutsu: He outmatched Suigetsu without trouble, and is capable of Lightning Transmission, presumably allowing him to destroy the Kubikiri Hocho if they fenced long enough,

Not too far behind in Suiton, if at all, as he can create offensive/defensive (it was a standard Wall, right?) techniques of a decent size while at the same time creating a Raiton tech, implying him able to use far more complex ones if he devotes his entire concentration,

And far ahead in Raiton. This is pretty clear. He can enhance his kenjutsu, Suiton and presumably ninja-tools (kunai, shruiken, whatnot) with it, and that seems to be his main usage of the field. Also, Black Lightning Techniques, like the Black Panther, can be used to match or even overpower Zabuza's large-scale Suiton,

Pretty decent with Ranton, which grants him the ability to not HAVE TO overpower or match Zabuza in the field of large-scale Suiton but rather use precision to flow around them. Ranton, possibly, could grant him the ability to shock things through the mist (far from certain, but as it's a mix of water and lightning it seems POSSIBLE) and could concievably grant him other means of dealing with it. My own on-the-spot invention, the Ranton: Lazer Carnival which is just a spiraling Lazer Circus in every direction, would shock Zabuza presumably enough to find him in the mist, or if not offer enough sound to locate him (lightning-water hitting flesh makes a different sound than it not hitting anything). Presumably Darui would know an all-direction Ranton, is what I'm trying to say.

Only real problem is the mist, but using something similar to the (non-canon, but likely) Ranton tech I outlined, or simply using the water in the air to power a large-scale Suiton SHOULD allow him to deal with it without much trouble. Darui seems both too canny and too capable to succumb to the Kirigakure no Jutsu.

So, roughly mid diff, may be both high or low, depending on a number of factors.

Do you agree?

[Sunagura]

i think this will clear the mist


with this her she have crazy Offensive, Defensive
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/White_S...of_Ten_Puppets

even better defensive
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Mechani...t_Shield_Block

she have it in her arm and mother and fathrer puppet.

[ShaneEyyy]

i think this will clear the mist


with this her she have crazy Offensive, Defensive
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/White_S...of_Ten_Puppets

even better defensive
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Mechani...t_Shield_Block

she have it in her arm and mother and fathrer puppet.

But since those are her best puppets, do you really think she would start out with that? Also, even if she did, there's a chance Zabuza can strike her first.

However, with that Tornado move, true it will blow away a lot of the mist, but wouldn't the mist fill back up again?

[End of Days]

chiyo imo

[Slug Princess Tsunade]

No, you are wrong. Zabuza is not faster then Chiyo. In the Databook they both have 4 in speed.
Chiyo has more battle experience. And she has The Chikamatsu Collection of Ten Puppets.

These puppets are very powerful, as Sasori claimed that there were rumours that they had been used to take down an entire castle at one point in time. The Chikamatsu Collection has terrifying prowess in taijutsu, ninjutsu, projectile weapons, and so on. Furthermore, as they can change their numbers by combining, the number of abilities they can show becomes even greater. The puppets were constructed in such a way that they all can work in tandem with each other both offensively and defensively.

I'd say the granny takes this.

[bobisacoolguy]

chiyo

[EjBlack]

Ranking doesn't = How Strong

Ranking = How difficult

[ShaneEyyy]

Ranking doesn't = How Strong

Ranking = How difficult

Yea and difficulty affects how strong the jutsu is, for example, Chidori is A-rank, however Lightning Cutter is S-rank and it's more stronger, in most cases, the higher the rank the higher the power of the technique.

Also have you seen Giant Vortex Jutsu? That tornado can't take it out, it's not even elementally more powerful.

[Piratefish]

Okay, let's see.
[QUOTE=ShaneEyyy;9194413]This is what I believe:

1. I think Zabuza's taijutsu/kenjutsu is better than Darui's, the only reason why Darui beat out Suigetsu is because Suigetsu turned himself into water when being hit, which then he got electricuted and numb because of Darui's channeled lightning. Zabuza is a legendary swordsman, I would say Darui's a decent-pretty good kenjutsu user who could hold his own for a decent amount of time if they engaged. I don't think Darui would cut all the way through the Executioner blade because when Sasuke used his lightning enhanced blade on the Executioner blade while Killer B was wielding it, it only cut through a little and then it took the Raikage's power to snap it. Even if Darui did cut through it, since Zabuza is more skilled, he can probably draw a little blood from Darui and rebuild the blade. I found this, http://www.*****************/showthread.php?t=833335

Darui's not BETTER at kenjutsu, that's for sure. However, he does have an advantage in an extended engagement, if he doesn't bleed heavily on his opponent's blade, as even if his Lightning-Current is inferior to both Sasuke's and his power is inferior to the Raikage's he'll damage his opponent's sword with every strike. After a while it'll be harder and harder for Zabuza to land a hit as his blade gets progressively weaker and smaller.

2. Laser Circus is a move where the user can bend the direction the lasers move in, however it requires accuracy to do so to hit the target, so if Darui can't find Zabuza then he can't aim to hit him. Even if Darui randomly aimed his lasers around the area, the chances of one of them hitting Zabuza is very low and if one was coming Zabuza's way, just like Kakashi sensed and saw the shuriken Zabuza threw at him, Zabuza could just jump out of the way because it's not a barrage of them like there were against the Gold and Silver brothers.

Within the mist there's no given that Zabuza could dodge Ranton moves, they're superior to shruiken and Zabuza doesn't have Kakashi's senses or Sharingan reflexes (he trusts his opponents to make noise while HE doesn't for his Silent Killing). I figure Darui could aim the Ranton in a spiral (to maximize area coverage) and have a decent chance of hitting Zabuza or at least a clone. If he's close/moving in for the kill (and when isn't Zabuza doing THAT) he'll have a hard time dodging as Darui can follow him with the lazers if he hears anything and they're moving in the same direction (away from Darui) anyway.

3. Darui's suiton isn't comparable to Zabuza's, true he can create a wall with it(Water Wall), but that can only lead Zabuza to use a Water Clone with it, which Darui would then channel lightning through the water just like he did against sasuke and destroy the clone, which would lower his guard because he would think he defeated Zabuza (clone feint) and allow Zabuza to sneak up behind him and then, just like Kakashi, be kicked into the water and then be caught in a Water Prison. If a 3 tomoe Kakashi couldn't keep up, then Darui roughly around the same level but without sensing abilities and a Sharingan definetly can't.

We've never seen Darui use Suiton to his full ability with it, and though he doesn't specialize in it like Zabuza, or use it as actively in combat, he HAS used decent Water Techs while using another technique at the same time. Which means that if he used all his concentration/power on a single technique, it would be far more powerful than the Water Wall he used. Zabuza probably has the edge, but not massively, and can't really expect to surprise Darui with any of his Suiton as he's both a fairly ordinary Water user and Darui has a similar knowledge-base concerning techniques. Darui is also pretty intelligent, as seen in the KinGin fight.

4. If Darui were to channel lightning threw Zabuza's Water Dragon or Giant Vortex Jutsu, it would only lead Darui to getting even more damaged and the most, slightly hinder Zabuza because if Zabuza used Water Dragon or Giant Vortex Jutsu, it wouldn't stop the technique, it would go through it (channel lightning into it) which would enhance it, making the force even greater when coming at Darui and flow all the way back to Zabuza, and since both are long range techs, that would give Zabuza enough time to jump out of the water, seeing the lightning travel through it, and protect himself. So that would be an invalid argument because not only would Darui be physically damaged by the water, but electrocuted by Black Lightning, putting him on the verge of death.

I think if Black Lightning were used it would end up as a conflict between the strengths of the techniques. However, it IS possible it'll end up as you describe. Black Lightning seems more potent than Zabuza's jutsu though, and we don't have much knowledge of its physical properties. It HASN'T mixed with water BEFORE. Maybe it can't?

Basically since Darui doesn't have sensing abilities, I doubt he can pull off beating Zabuza if Kakashi with Sharingan and his dogs to sense and react barely could.

He has other options, like using up the moisture in the air with large Suiton. Kakashi didn't actually use his dogs to sense anything, but I agree that his senses are keener than Darui's.

http://www.narutobase.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=273510 for more reasoning, you have some good points, but I still think Zabuza has a higher chance.

Zabuza DOES have a shot at this, but I feel Darui would take it 7 or 8 times out of 10. Maybe 6.

[Piratefish]

Could you fix it so i can quote you and answer in chunks? The current format makes it pretty hard to concentrate on the entirety of my answer.

Sorry for taking so long...

[ShaneEyyy]

Could you fix it so i can quote you and answer in chunks? The current format makes it pretty hard to concentrate on the entirety of my answer.

Sorry for taking so long...

I actually don't know how to haha, just reply back fishhead