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  1. #26
    Senior Member ShaneEyyy's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    We should argue about this in a different thread, IS there a Darui vs Zabuza one? Rest assured, however, that I'm very keen on arguing about this.
    Yea didn't you click that link? the one where i said "for more reasoning" its my thread Darui vs Zabuza
     
         

  2. #27
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    Yea didn't you click that link? the one where i said "for more reasoning" its my thread Darui vs Zabuza
    Well, I did, but I don't have an account there.
     
         

  3. #28
    Senior Member ShaneEyyy's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    Well, I did, but I don't have an account there.
    No my last link
     
         

  4. #29
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Okay, let's see.
    [QUOTE=ShaneEyyy;9194413]This is what I believe:

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    1. I think Zabuza's taijutsu/kenjutsu is better than Darui's, the only reason why Darui beat out Suigetsu is because Suigetsu turned himself into water when being hit, which then he got electricuted and numb because of Darui's channeled lightning. Zabuza is a legendary swordsman, I would say Darui's a decent-pretty good kenjutsu user who could hold his own for a decent amount of time if they engaged. I don't think Darui would cut all the way through the Executioner blade because when Sasuke used his lightning enhanced blade on the Executioner blade while Killer B was wielding it, it only cut through a little and then it took the Raikage's power to snap it. Even if Darui did cut through it, since Zabuza is more skilled, he can probably draw a little blood from Darui and rebuild the blade. I found this, http://www.*****************/showthread.php?t=833335
    Darui's not BETTER at kenjutsu, that's for sure. However, he does have an advantage in an extended engagement, if he doesn't bleed heavily on his opponent's blade, as even if his Lightning-Current is inferior to both Sasuke's and his power is inferior to the Raikage's he'll damage his opponent's sword with every strike. After a while it'll be harder and harder for Zabuza to land a hit as his blade gets progressively weaker and smaller.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    2. Laser Circus is a move where the user can bend the direction the lasers move in, however it requires accuracy to do so to hit the target, so if Darui can't find Zabuza then he can't aim to hit him. Even if Darui randomly aimed his lasers around the area, the chances of one of them hitting Zabuza is very low and if one was coming Zabuza's way, just like Kakashi sensed and saw the shuriken Zabuza threw at him, Zabuza could just jump out of the way because it's not a barrage of them like there were against the Gold and Silver brothers.
    Within the mist there's no given that Zabuza could dodge Ranton moves, they're superior to shruiken and Zabuza doesn't have Kakashi's senses or Sharingan reflexes (he trusts his opponents to make noise while HE doesn't for his Silent Killing). I figure Darui could aim the Ranton in a spiral (to maximize area coverage) and have a decent chance of hitting Zabuza or at least a clone. If he's close/moving in for the kill (and when isn't Zabuza doing THAT) he'll have a hard time dodging as Darui can follow him with the lazers if he hears anything and they're moving in the same direction (away from Darui) anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    3. Darui's suiton isn't comparable to Zabuza's, true he can create a wall with it(Water Wall), but that can only lead Zabuza to use a Water Clone with it, which Darui would then channel lightning through the water just like he did against sasuke and destroy the clone, which would lower his guard because he would think he defeated Zabuza (clone feint) and allow Zabuza to sneak up behind him and then, just like Kakashi, be kicked into the water and then be caught in a Water Prison. If a 3 tomoe Kakashi couldn't keep up, then Darui roughly around the same level but without sensing abilities and a Sharingan definetly can't.
    We've never seen Darui use Suiton to his full ability with it, and though he doesn't specialize in it like Zabuza, or use it as actively in combat, he HAS used decent Water Techs while using another technique at the same time. Which means that if he used all his concentration/power on a single technique, it would be far more powerful than the Water Wall he used. Zabuza probably has the edge, but not massively, and can't really expect to surprise Darui with any of his Suiton as he's both a fairly ordinary Water user and Darui has a similar knowledge-base concerning techniques. Darui is also pretty intelligent, as seen in the KinGin fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    4. If Darui were to channel lightning threw Zabuza's Water Dragon or Giant Vortex Jutsu, it would only lead Darui to getting even more damaged and the most, slightly hinder Zabuza because if Zabuza used Water Dragon or Giant Vortex Jutsu, it wouldn't stop the technique, it would go through it (channel lightning into it) which would enhance it, making the force even greater when coming at Darui and flow all the way back to Zabuza, and since both are long range techs, that would give Zabuza enough time to jump out of the water, seeing the lightning travel through it, and protect himself. So that would be an invalid argument because not only would Darui be physically damaged by the water, but electrocuted by Black Lightning, putting him on the verge of death.
    I think if Black Lightning were used it would end up as a conflict between the strengths of the techniques. However, it IS possible it'll end up as you describe. Black Lightning seems more potent than Zabuza's jutsu though, and we don't have much knowledge of its physical properties. It HASN'T mixed with water BEFORE. Maybe it can't?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    Basically since Darui doesn't have sensing abilities, I doubt he can pull off beating Zabuza if Kakashi with Sharingan and his dogs to sense and react barely could.
    He has other options, like using up the moisture in the air with large Suiton. Kakashi didn't actually use his dogs to sense anything, but I agree that his senses are keener than Darui's.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    http://www.narutobase.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=273510 for more reasoning, you have some good points, but I still think Zabuza has a higher chance.
    Zabuza DOES have a shot at this, but I feel Darui would take it 7 or 8 times out of 10. Maybe 6.
     
         

  5. #30
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Okay, let's see.
    This is what I believe:

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    1. I think Zabuza's taijutsu/kenjutsu is better than Darui's, the only reason why Darui beat out Suigetsu is because Suigetsu turned himself into water when being hit, which then he got electricuted and numb because of Darui's channeled lightning. Zabuza is a legendary swordsman, I would say Darui's a decent-pretty good kenjutsu user who could hold his own for a decent amount of time if they engaged. I don't think Darui would cut all the way through the Executioner blade because when Sasuke used his lightning enhanced blade on the Executioner blade while Killer B was wielding it, it only cut through a little and then it took the Raikage's power to snap it. Even if Darui did cut through it, since Zabuza is more skilled, he can probably draw a little blood from Darui and rebuild the blade. I found this, http://www.*****************/showthread.php?t=833335
    Darui's not BETTER at kenjutsu, that's for sure. However, he does have an advantage in an extended engagement, if he doesn't bleed heavily on his opponent's blade, as even if his Lightning-Current is inferior to both Sasuke's and his power is inferior to the Raikage's he'll damage his opponent's sword with every strike. After a while it'll be harder and harder for Zabuza to land a hit as his blade gets progressively weaker and smaller.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    2. Laser Circus is a move where the user can bend the direction the lasers move in, however it requires accuracy to do so to hit the target, so if Darui can't find Zabuza then he can't aim to hit him. Even if Darui randomly aimed his lasers around the area, the chances of one of them hitting Zabuza is very low and if one was coming Zabuza's way, just like Kakashi sensed and saw the shuriken Zabuza threw at him, Zabuza could just jump out of the way because it's not a barrage of them like there were against the Gold and Silver brothers.
    Within the mist there's no given that Zabuza could dodge Ranton moves, they're superior to shruiken and Zabuza doesn't have Kakashi's senses or Sharingan reflexes (he trusts his opponents to make noise while HE doesn't for his Silent Killing). I figure Darui could aim the Ranton in a spiral (to maximize area coverage) and have a decent chance of hitting Zabuza or at least a clone. If he's close/moving in for the kill (and when isn't Zabuza doing THAT) he'll have a hard time dodging as Darui can follow him with the lazers if he hears anything and they're moving in the same direction (away from Darui) anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    3. Darui's suiton isn't comparable to Zabuza's, true he can create a wall with it(Water Wall), but that can only lead Zabuza to use a Water Clone with it, which Darui would then channel lightning through the water just like he did against sasuke and destroy the clone, which would lower his guard because he would think he defeated Zabuza (clone feint) and allow Zabuza to sneak up behind him and then, just like Kakashi, be kicked into the water and then be caught in a Water Prison. If a 3 tomoe Kakashi couldn't keep up, then Darui roughly around the same level but without sensing abilities and a Sharingan definetly can't.
    We've never seen Darui use Suiton to his full ability with it, and though he doesn't specialize in it like Zabuza, or use it as actively in combat, he HAS used decent Water Techs while using another technique at the same time. Which means that if he used all his concentration/power on a single technique, it would be far more powerful than the Water Wall he used. Zabuza probably has the edge, but not massively, and can't really expect to surprise Darui with any of his Suiton as he's both a fairly ordinary Water user and Darui has a similar knowledge-base concerning techniques. Darui is also pretty intelligent, as seen in the KinGin fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    4. If Darui were to channel lightning threw Zabuza's Water Dragon or Giant Vortex Jutsu, it would only lead Darui to getting even more damaged and the most, slightly hinder Zabuza because if Zabuza used Water Dragon or Giant Vortex Jutsu, it wouldn't stop the technique, it would go through it (channel lightning into it) which would enhance it, making the force even greater when coming at Darui and flow all the way back to Zabuza, and since both are long range techs, that would give Zabuza enough time to jump out of the water, seeing the lightning travel through it, and protect himself. So that would be an invalid argument because not only would Darui be physically damaged by the water, but electrocuted by Black Lightning, putting him on the verge of death.
    I think if Black Lightning were used it would end up as a conflict between the strengths of the techniques. However, it IS possible it'll end up as you describe. Black Lightning seems more potent than Zabuza's jutsu though, and we don't have much knowledge of its physical properties. It HASN'T mixed with water BEFORE. Maybe it can't?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    Basically since Darui doesn't have sensing abilities, I doubt he can pull off beating Zabuza if Kakashi with Sharingan and his dogs to sense and react barely could.
    He has other options, like using up the moisture in the air with large Suiton. Kakashi didn't actually use his dogs to sense anything, but I agree that his senses are keener than Darui's.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    http://www.narutobase.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=273510 for more reasoning, you have some good points, but I still think Zabuza has a higher chance.
    Zabuza DOES have a shot at this, but I feel Darui would take it 7 or 8 times out of 10. Maybe 6.
     
         

  6. #31
    Scorpion King Sunagura's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    Actually Giant Vortex Jutsu has 18 handseals (Water Dragon Jutsu has 44), and if he's hidden in the mist, he has plenty of times to make those seals, and please write proper, it's irritating to read. *took
    okay still chiyo have no problem doing that, 16 hans seal is enoung to kill zabuza and there other 7 puppet that wating to kill him any time.
     
         
    Last edited by Sunagura; 11-26-2012 at 02:51 PM.

  7. #32
    Senior Member ShaneEyyy's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    [QUOTE=Piratefish;9207766]Okay, let's see.
    This is what I believe:


    Darui's not BETTER at kenjutsu, that's for sure. However, he does have an advantage in an extended engagement, if he doesn't bleed heavily on his opponent's blade, as even if his Lightning-Current is inferior to both Sasuke's and his power is inferior to the Raikage's he'll damage his opponent's sword with every strike. After a while it'll be harder and harder for Zabuza to land a hit as his blade gets progressively weaker and smaller.

    No it won't, the only reason why the Executioner Blade got snapped in the first place was by brutal force by the Raikage, if Zabuza and Darui engaged it wouldn't constantly get weaker and smaller, as shown when Suigetsu used the half of the sword to fight Darui, and the sword didn't take any more damage to it. I can show you a scan if you want. Zabuza is beating out Darui if they engage in Kenjutsu.




    Within the mist there's no given that Zabuza could dodge Ranton moves, they're superior to shruiken and Zabuza doesn't have Kakashi's senses or Sharingan reflexes (he trusts his opponents to make noise while HE doesn't for his Silent Killing). I figure Darui could aim the Ranton in a spiral (to maximize area coverage) and have a decent chance of hitting Zabuza or at least a clone. If he's close/moving in for the kill (and when isn't Zabuza doing THAT) he'll have a hard time dodging as Darui can follow him with the lazers if he hears anything and they're moving in the same direction (away from Darui) anyway.

    You're right, he doesn't have Kakashi's senses, he has advanced better senses, which makes up for his lack of Sharingan with reacting. Zabuza would be able to sense a laser coming at him because it was noted in the manga that even the slightest movement of the eye can give yourself away to Zabuza. If he's moving in and a laser is coming at him, Darui CANNOT follow him where he hears him because just as you said, Zabuza is silent, Darui won't be able to sense and aim at him. Even if a laser hit Zabuza, it wouldn't even cause major damage, as shown when he used Laser Circus against Kinkaku and he got barraged with lasers, but didn't have to reanimate much, if I recall, not at all. Laser Circus would be a lucky move in the mist if it hit Zabuza, but he would have to spread them out and 1-2 lasers won't kill him.
    We've never seen Darui use Suiton to his full ability with it, and though he doesn't specialize in it like Zabuza, or use it as actively in combat, he HAS used decent Water Techs while using another technique at the same time. Which means that if he used all his concentration/power on a single technique, it would be far more powerful than the Water Wall he used. Zabuza probably has the edge, but not massively, and can't really expect to surprise Darui with any of his Suiton as he's both a fairly ordinary Water user and Darui has a similar knowledge-base concerning techniques. Darui is also pretty intelligent, as seen in the KinGin fight.

    I think we've seen Darui's full ability with Suiton, as he's a major lightning user, his ONLY water tech is Water Wall, which is used for defense. However, he has to know or see when the enemy is coming at him to know when to activate it, which he won't because of his lack of sensing abilities. So his suiton against Zabuza is basically useless. Zabuza wouldn't even need to use Giant Vortex or Water Dragon Jutsu anyways, all he needs is mist.
    I think if Black Lightning were used it would end up as a conflict between the strengths of the techniques. However, it IS possible it'll end up as you describe. Black Lightning seems more potent than Zabuza's jutsu though, and we don't have much knowledge of its physical properties. It HASN'T mixed with water BEFORE. Maybe it can't?

    It HAS mixed with water before as shown when Darui used it on water to kill Zetsu clones before engaging KinGin, comon dude know your facts haha. Black Lightning/Panther arn't solid techniques, just enhanced lightning that run through water. I can show you a scan if you want.
    He has other options, like using up the moisture in the air with large Suiton. Kakashi didn't actually use his dogs to sense anything, but I agree that his senses are keener than Darui's.

    Dude I think now you're trying to find any argument, Darui has only shown to use Water Wall, which is expelled from the mouth, we can't say he has any other water techs because they havn't been shown, I could say that Zabuza has Water Wall also if we are going to use logic like that. Kakashi used his dogs to sense/smell the blood on Zabuza's blade, dude know your facts when debating man!
    Zabuza DOES have a shot at this, but I feel Darui would take it 7 or 8 times out of 10. Maybe 6.

    Zabuza has the favor of this battle, also if I seem if I'm being harsh I'm just trying to get the point across, you have some valid points though.
     
         
    Last edited by ShaneEyyy; 11-23-2012 at 04:44 PM.

  8. #33
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Could you fix it so i can quote you and answer in chunks? The current format makes it pretty hard to concentrate on the entirety of my answer.

    Sorry for taking so long...
     
         

  9. #34
    Senior Member ShaneEyyy's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    Could you fix it so i can quote you and answer in chunks? The current format makes it pretty hard to concentrate on the entirety of my answer.

    Sorry for taking so long...
    I actually don't know how to haha, just reply back fishhead
     
         

  10. #35
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    I actually don't know how to haha, just reply back fishhead
    I think what you did was put [/QUOTE] in the wrong place, behind YOUR statements and not mine. I could be wrong, but you should try to fix it.
     
         

  11. #36
    Senior Member ShaneEyyy's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    I think what you did was put
    in the wrong place, behind YOUR statements and not mine. I could be wrong, but you should try to fix it.[/QUOTE]

    I tried and it didn't work, just stop being a lazy ***** and reply
     
         

  12. #37
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    in the wrong place, behind YOUR statements and not mine. I could be wrong, but you should try to fix it.
    I tried and it didn't work, just stop being a lazy ***** and reply[/QUOTE]

    But that would require effooooooooooooort....

    Chill, bro, it's coming.
     
         

  13. #38
    Senior Member ShaneEyyy's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    I tried and it didn't work, just stop being a lazy ***** and reply
    But that would require effooooooooooooort....

    Chill, bro, it's coming.[/QUOTE]

    WHO TELLING TO CALM DOWN, YOUR THE PHYSCO
     
         

  14. #39
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    But that would require effooooooooooooort....

    Chill, bro, it's coming.
    WHO TELLING TO CALM DOWN, YOUR THE PHYSCO[/QUOTE]

    This isn't Shayneyy's trolling little brother or something, is it?

    If so, good effort, grandbro. (You're bro's bro, so you're my grandbro.)
     
         

  15. #40
    Senior Member ShaneEyyy's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    WHO TELLING TO CALM DOWN, YOUR THE PHYSCO
    This isn't Shayneyy's trolling little brother or something, is it?

    If so, good effort, grandbro. (You're bro's bro, so you're my grandbro.)[/QUOTE]

    So where's that reply?
     
         

  16. #41
    Origami Angel Ame no kage's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Granny wins this, experience trumps brute force, sometimes you guys forget the older the shinobi the more experienced gained hints the life span of those 2 has lived. and judging by the age of chiyo she would have exceptional vast amount of information on zabuza and his jutsus. But reading your argument would suggest you already picked a winner. you should try a little harder at hiding the fanboy for zabuza, its not fooling anyone.
     
         
    Last edited by Ame no kage; 11-26-2012 at 07:23 AM.

  17. #42
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Quote Originally Posted by Ame no kage View Post
    Granny wins this, experience trumps brute force, sometimes you guys forget the older the shinobi the more experienced gained hints the life span of those 2 has lived. and judging by the age of chiyo she would have exceptional vast amount of information on zabuza and his jutsus. But reading your argument would suggest you already picked a winner. you should try a little harder at hiding the fanboy for zabuza, its not fooling anyone.
    You don't seem to have noticed that even ShaneEyyy admitted Chiyo was the probable victor. Don't attempt to diss people if you don't even read.
     
         

  18. #43
    The Head of Inuzuka Clan kibainuzuka's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    nope zabuza would cut her in 2 pieces :P
     
         

  19. #44
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    No it won't, the only reason why the Executioner Blade got snapped in the first place was by brutal force by the Raikage, if Zabuza and Darui engaged it wouldn't constantly get weaker and smaller, as shown when Suigetsu used the half of the sword to fight Darui, and the sword didn't take any more damage to it. I can show you a scan if you want. Zabuza is beating out Darui if they engage in Kenjutsu.
    Darui is the right-hand-man to the Raikage who to a large degree focuses on kenjutsu. He beat Suigetsu effortlessly, they didn't fight for long. Also, he used Raiton to immobilize Suigetsu and not to damage the Kubikiri Hocho. Since he's demonstrated superior techniques to Sasuke in at least one area when it comes to Raiton-Charge (he can maintain it even without touching his sword) i see him able to damage Zabuza's sword. He's not outclassed to the point where he can be beaten with kenjutsu before he can fire off at least one ninjutsu.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    You're right, he doesn't have Kakashi's senses, he has advanced better senses, which makes up for his lack of Sharingan with reacting. Zabuza would be able to sense a laser coming at him because it was noted in the manga that even the slightest movement of the eye can give yourself away to Zabuza. If he's moving in and a laser is coming at him, Darui CANNOT follow him where he hears him because just as you said, Zabuza is silent, Darui won't be able to sense and aim at him. Even if a laser hit Zabuza, it wouldn't even cause major damage, as shown when he used Laser Circus against Kinkaku and he got barraged with lasers, but didn't have to reanimate much, if I recall, not at all. Laser Circus would be a lucky move in the mist if it hit Zabuza, but he would have to spread them out and 1-2 lasers won't kill him.
    Ranton's advantage is its precision. It has a certain amount of power, and if it hits Zabuza it'll at least slow him down, if it doesn't hit solidly enough to take him out entirely. It's fast enough to surprise Kinkaku and may be enough to illuminate the mist, so Darui can SEE Zabuza and use that to aim ALL the lasers his way, and fire off more accurate later volleys, or BL.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    I think we've seen Darui's full ability with Suiton, as he's a major lightning user, his ONLY water tech is Water Wall, which is used for defense. However, he has to know or see when the enemy is coming at him to know when to activate it, which he won't because of his lack of sensing abilities. So his suiton against Zabuza is basically useless. Zabuza wouldn't even need to use Giant Vortex or Water Dragon Jutsu anyways, all he needs is mist.
    If someone can use a technique AT THE SAME TIME as another technique (really REALLY rare, I can't think of anyone save Nagato to have done that) it's more than reasonable that he can use more difficult techniques as well. At the very least he won't be caught off-guard by Zabuza's Water jutsu.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    It HAS mixed with water before as shown when Darui used it on water to kill Zetsu clones before engaging KinGin, comon dude know your facts haha. Black Lightning/Panther arn't solid techniques, just enhanced lightning that run through water. I can show you a scan if you want.
    Yeah, I remember now. That was pretty fail of me. Black Lightning COULD be used as a large-scale mist-piercer, though. If it's aimed in the right direction it would be hard to dodge.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    Dude I think now you're trying to find any argument, Darui has only shown to use Water Wall, which is expelled from the mouth, we can't say he has any other water techs because they havn't been shown, I could say that Zabuza has Water Wall also if we are going to use logic like that. Kakashi used his dogs to sense/smell the blood on Zabuza's blade, dude know your facts when debating man!
    I'd say Zabuza WOULD have Water Wall, if anything. It's fairly basic. And wouldn't a Suijinheki be enough to disperse the mist if he used it as fuel? Kakashi was able to react to Zabuza in the mist LONG before he got cut.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    Zabuza has the favor of this battle, also if I seem if I'm being harsh I'm just trying to get the point across, you have some valid points though.
    I still think Darui has the edge.
     
         

  20. #45
    Senior Member ShaneEyyy's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Darui is the right-hand-man to the Raikage who to a large degree focuses on kenjutsu. He beat Suigetsu effortlessly, they didn't fight for long. Also, he used Raiton to immobilize Suigetsu and not to damage the Kubikiri Hocho. Since he's demonstrated superior techniques to Sasuke in at least one area when it comes to Raiton-Charge (he can maintain it even without touching his sword) i see him able to damage Zabuza's sword. He's not outclassed to the point where he can be beaten with kenjutsu before he can fire off at least one ninjutsu.
    I wouldn't say effortlessly, he still had to try and focus because Suigetsu was good enough at Kenjutsu to be complimented by Kisame. Darui enhancing his sword with lightning is just to increase it's power, it doesn't change for the purpose of immobilizing Suigetsu or damaging the Executioner blade. Plus, I highly doubt Darui even knew Suigetsu was part of the Hozuki clan. Suigetsu was captured by Orochimaru so Darui having no intel on him is understandable. Also, if your read chapter 462-463, you will see when Darui and Suigetsu engage in fighting, Darui's lightning has no effect on the sword, unless it was just very slowing scraping/cutting it. As I said before, his lightning stay's the same for whatever purpose, unless you can prove me wrong with a comparison from a scan(s).


    Ranton's advantage is its precision. It has a certain amount of power, and if it hits Zabuza it'll at least slow him down, if it doesn't hit solidly enough to take him out entirely. It's fast enough to surprise Kinkaku and may be enough to illuminate the mist, so Darui can SEE Zabuza and use that to aim ALL the lasers his way, and fire off more accurate later volleys, or BL.
    I would've expected a better argument than this one. True, Raiton's advantage is it's precision. With that being said, since Darui CANNOT SEE Zabuza because of the mist and Laser Circus not giving the user vision...., then he can't aim to hit Zabuza, it has to be a random shot which lowers the chances greatly.... If Zabuza didn't have Hidden Mist, Darui would be able to hit Zabuza directly and cause a great deal of physical damage, however this isn't the case. Also, you really think a blast of Laser Circus is going to take Zabuza out? Maybe moderate pain but dude, he was stabbed with at least 10 swords inserted deep into his body and still charged at Gato with full speed and killed him. I know you're going to say, "Laser Circus is far more stronger than swords", but it's really not when you've got inserted 10 swords deep into your body, it's probably even greater at that point. I think that's agreeable to some extent?

    If someone can use a technique AT THE SAME TIME as another technique (really REALLY rare, I can't think of anyone save Nagato to have done that) it's more than reasonable that he can use more difficult techniques as well. At the very least he won't be caught off-guard by Zabuza's Water jutsu.
    With debating, we can't assume Darui has more jutsu to give. Imagine how long it may have taken him to master the 3rd Raikage's technique, I mean, with only the 3rd possessing it and only teaching Darui it, it had to take a lot of time to master. Also, don't you think it took Darui a while to use his Kekkei Genkai? Maybe not so long, but to be able to use lightning and water at the same time must take a lot of practice to get down. Not only that, but he learned the Water Wall jutsu and that lightning technique that works in conjunction with it which must have taken time too. I'm telling you dude, the chances of Darui having more jutsu aren't so great as you may think. And if we use that analogy, I could say Zabuza being a great Suiton user can use Water Wall as well, which we can't confirm. True, he won't be caught off guard by Zabuza's water techs, out of the mist but that won't happen because Darui doesn't have a tech to navigate the mist.

    Yeah, I remember now. That was pretty fail of me. Black Lightning COULD be used as a large-scale mist-piercer, though. If it's aimed in the right direction it would be hard to dodge.
    Oh like Kakuzu's False Darkness jutsu? Yea, I can agree with that. However, if it's used against Zabuza's Water Dragon or Giant Vortex then it will be conducted through as shown when Black Lightning hit the water before.

    I'd say Zabuza WOULD have Water Wall, if anything. It's fairly basic. And wouldn't a Suijinheki be enough to disperse the mist if he used it as fuel? Kakashi was able to react to Zabuza in the mist LONG before he got cut.
    I wouldn't say fairly basic as it is a B-rank move. But again, we can't assume these things unless shown. And no, the mist is made up of very little water droplets, I actually thought the same thing once, but there wouldn't even be enough to fill up a glass of water. Science there Kakashi actually wasn't able to react well to Zabuza in the mist, and Kakashi had a 3 tomoe Sharingan which helps A LOT, something that Darui doesn't have. If you look at the link I shared with you in one of my previous post, it provides a scan of Kakashi getting pushed around.

    I still think Darui has the edge.
    I will change your mind.
     
         
    Last edited by ShaneEyyy; 11-26-2012 at 11:36 PM.

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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    kk

    ye
    is that your WHOLE response?
     
         

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    Senior Member ShaneEyyy's Avatar
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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    is that your WHOLE response?
    No, I was trying to find out how to do that quote thing that you do to make listing and reading arguments back and forth easier and I was testing it out.

    You got my argument
     
         

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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    I wouldn't say effortlessly, he still had to try and focus because Suigetsu was good enough at Kenjutsu to be complimented by Kisame. Darui enhancing his sword with lightning is just to increase it's power, it doesn't change for the purpose of immobilizing Suigetsu or damaging the Executioner blade. Plus, I highly doubt Darui even knew Suigetsu was part of the Hozuki clan. Suigetsu was captured by Orochimaru so Darui having no intel on him is understandable. Also, if your read chapter 462-463, you will see when Darui and Suigetsu engage in fighting, Darui's lightning has no effect on the sword, unless it was just very slowing scraping/cutting it. As I said before, his lightning stay's the same for whatever purpose, unless you can prove me wrong with a comparison from a scan(s).
    Ah, well. Kenjutsu is a stalemate, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    I would've expected a better argument than this one. True, Raiton's advantage is it's precision. With that being said, since Darui CANNOT SEE Zabuza because of the mist and Laser Circus not giving the user vision...., then he can't aim to hit Zabuza, it has to be a random shot which lowers the chances greatly.... If Zabuza didn't have Hidden Mist, Darui would be able to hit Zabuza directly and cause a great deal of physical damage, however this isn't the case. Also, you really think a blast of Laser Circus is going to take Zabuza out? Maybe moderate pain but dude, he was stabbed with at least 10 swords inserted deep into his body and still charged at Gato with full speed and killed him. I know you're going to say, "Laser Circus is far more stronger than swords", but it's really not when you've got inserted 10 swords deep into your body, it's probably even greater at that point. I think that's agreeable to some extent?
    I was talking about a DIRECT HIT with ALL of the laser-beams. I figure that would kill most non-edos. Laser Circus, like lightning, seems to illuminate its surroundings to some degree, which would help see through the mist. Streetlamps help even when it's misty, you know. But using Ranton like this also gives Zabuza warning, and shows him Darui's location.

    On a side-note, do you think Darui could direct a Laser Circus so it spun around him like a shield?

    Also, I think Darui is more intelligent than Zabuza. He switches tactics on the fly, while Zabuza uses pretty much the same trick all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    With debating, we can't assume Darui has more jutsu to give. Imagine how long it may have taken him to master the 3rd Raikage's technique, I mean, with only the 3rd possessing it and only teaching Darui it, it had to take a lot of time to master. Also, don't you think it took Darui a while to use his Kekkei Genkai? Maybe not so long, but to be able to use lightning and water at the same time must take a lot of practice to get down. Not only that, but he learned the Water Wall jutsu and that lightning technique that works in conjunction with it which must have taken time too. I'm telling you dude, the chances of Darui having more jutsu aren't so great as you may think. And if we use that analogy, I could say Zabuza being a great Suiton user can use Water Wall as well, which we can't confirm. True, he won't be caught off guard by Zabuza's water techs, out of the mist but that won't happen because Darui doesn't have a tech to navigate the mist.
    I think he must have mastered Black Lightning while the Sandaime was alive; who else would there be to teach him?

    Laser Circus COULD be used to help navigate.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    Oh like Kakuzu's False Darkness jutsu? Yea, I can agree with that. However, if it's used against Zabuza's Water Dragon or Giant Vortex then it will be conducted through as shown when Black Lightning hit the water before.
    Yup. Exactly how big is the shown Black Lightning techs? Could Darui hit most of everything around him with two or three uses? Can he direct Black Panther to circle him as a defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    I wouldn't say fairly basic as it is a B-rank move. But again, we can't assume these things unless shown. And no, the mist is made up of very little water droplets, I actually thought the same thing once, but there wouldn't even be enough to fill up a glass of water. Science there Kakashi actually wasn't able to react well to Zabuza in the mist, and Kakashi had a 3 tomoe Sharingan which helps A LOT, something that Darui doesn't have. If you look at the link I shared with you in one of my previous post, it provides a scan of Kakashi getting pushed around.
    Water Wall, and wall techniques in general seem almost universal for proficient users of the more defensive elements. Kakashi has Water AND Earth Wall, Hiruzen had Earth Wall, ALL of those guys who got dominated by the Sandaime Raikage had Earth Wall, Tobirama has Water Wall, Darui has Water Wall. Mei has a Water Pillar. Kisame doesn't, but then again his fighting style is almost entirely offensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneEyyy View Post
    I will change your mind.
    We'll see.
     
         

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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    Ah, well. Kenjutsu is a stalemate, then.
    I was just about to say it was.


    I was talking about a DIRECT HIT with ALL of the laser-beams. I figure that would kill most non-edos. Laser Circus, like lightning, seems to illuminate its surroundings to some degree, which would help see through the mist. Streetlamps help even when it's misty, you know. But using Ranton like this also gives Zabuza warning, and shows him Darui's location.

    On a side-note, do you think Darui could direct a Laser Circus so it spun around him like a shield?

    Also, I think Darui is more intelligent than Zabuza. He switches tactics on the fly, while Zabuza uses pretty much the same trick all the time.
    Laser Circus wouldn't help Darui see, it's actually not even that bright because it's also mixed with water. Also, do you see Darui randomly using Laser Circus to produce light and randomly hitting Zabuza? Even if it produces enough light, he doesn't have 2 eyes behind his head, Zabuza will always strike behind you, no matter where you turn, no matter where you go. Lights won't help Darui I'm telling you.

    It's a possibility, but a low one. He can aim what direction the lasers go, like a missle, but it was never shown that the missles could even go behind him in opposite directions.

    I would have to disagree with Zabuza using the same trick. First, Zabuza uses Hidden Mist and Silent Killing, then he uses Water Clone feints mixed with extreme Kenjutsu and Water Prison, and if none of that works he would use large scale suiton techs (Water Dragon and Giant Vortex).

    I think he must have mastered Black Lightning while the Sandaime was alive; who else would there be to teach him?

    Laser Circus COULD be used to help navigate.
    Actually yea I can agree with that, but still we can't assume he knows more jutsu just like we can't assume Guy and Asuma know more ninjutsu when they only shown 3 and less.

    Laser Circus would create narrow holes in the mist, but then it would fill in very fast because Zabuza makes it very thick.



    Yup. Exactly how big is the shown Black Lightning techs? Could Darui hit most of everything around him with two or three uses? Can he direct Black Panther to circle him as a defense?
    Decent size. It would probably take him 5-8 because it's more of a 1 shot jutsu unless on water, like Kakuzu's False Darkness. Black Panther was never shown to have any capabilities as defense, it's an offensive move.

    Water Wall, and wall techniques in general seem almost universal for proficient users of the more defensive elements. Kakashi has Water AND Earth Wall, Hiruzen had Earth Wall, ALL of those guys who got dominated by the Sandaime Raikage had Earth Wall, Tobirama has Water Wall, Darui has Water Wall. Mei has a Water Pillar. Kisame doesn't, but then again his fighting style is almost entirely offensive.
    Ok so we agree that it's a good chance Zabuza has Water Wall too because it's almost universal? I don't think this argument is strong enough to decide the winner. Stalemate this.



    We'll see.
    Yes, we will see
     
         

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    Re: Chiyo vs Zabuza

    If this thread is still going on at least change the title to Chiyo vs Zabuza / Darui
     
         

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