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  1. #41
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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorps View Post
    Well, SY's rules were updated a bit since they were tested inside Konoha. But for all those who didn't actually participate or got contact with it, the truth is that they are only a set of limitations and "control" over the Ninja World events.

    Things you can expect:

    -No village defenses
    -No village destruction until the war is won/lost
    -No free movement. Each village will have a set number of stages (borderlands (commong to all), border, village walls, inner village, Kage mansion) and the opponents will battle through the defenders in each stage. Much like when in the manga they went after Sasuke and each ninja held back one of the sound four, the same will happen here. if 5 defenders exist in that stage but 8 attackers appear, 3 may chose to carry on and the other 5 will only carry on when they defeat their opponnent.
    -War will lose much of the "freedom" to be a bit more restricted much like a tournament. It will go smoother.
    -All fights will be regulated in terms of arguing, reply times, rules of conduct, etc.
    -Arguments will be dealt with in a thread for it under strict rules and guidelines to avoid flame and spam.
    -RP/Movement will be done in separate threads, one for each stage while battles will be on other threads.
    -When no consensus is found, fights will always be 1vs1.
    -movement will only be possible on foot and above ground.
    -a severe "respect" rule will be established where neutral senseis and RP Mod's words will not be contested and argued directly upon.

    And many other minor things but this is the main "view" of it.
    I'm going to be the advocator for the reading impared and say that if the rest is more complex than I think that'll trip more people up than actual moves and counters in fights >_> lol

    But on a real note, I agree with most of the rules up there but the one I specifically find problem with is the 1v1 match ups. I don't feel that all matches should be strictly 1v1, in a real war/invasion like situation shinobi aren't all fighting individuals. I mean if we look at the war in the manga we see teams and squads dealing with single shinobi or other teams and squads. KB and Naruto fought Nagato and Itachi and now we have Naruto, KB, Gai and Kakashi fighting against Obito and Madara.

    I'm not suggesting we have large scale team battles like 3v3 or anything, but I feel some leway can be given to have team battles, 2v1 or 2v2. It would probably get messy if we got higher than that and such like with 3v2 or 3v3. However it could be fun, the fair team play or the disadvantaged team vs. the advantaged team to give a suspencful edge etc, etc.

    I can't remember what you're reasons were before. I can't recall if it was in the thread where Lili and Sharingdork were coming or if it was somewhere else. I remember you said something as to why fights should be conducted 1v1 but I really don't think that's using the RP to the fullest extent especially when not all members have the best suit of skills individually but seem to work better in teams. It would be just like not fighting your opponents to the fullest. I can see the issues with organization, getting people to respond in accordance with their turns; some people losing interest and not responding; people getting preoccupied with other matters in rl, preventing them from fighting. In cases like that, it becomes irritating, however when both parties are really into it and they do their part the team battles can be pretty good. In the cases where somebody doesn't respond, I've seen more than once people commanding bios for others during inability for one member to participate. I'm not suggesting that this be done throughout the fight but maybe for a certian turn limit (where the inactive person would usually respond) like 2 or 3 and then if not you could simple proclaim that bio dead or incorperate something like Hazama's comatose/full coma state and just let the other member be what they will without their teammate as a result. That's just my opinion on the matter.
     
         

  2. #42
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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by ReXii View Post
    Your wrong, only a few ninja have an understanding of fuuinjutsu, it is hidden ninjutsu, the Uzumaki clan, Minato, Kakashi, Obito, Orochimaru.
    Those are some of the only ninja ever shown to have any understanding of fuuinjutsu.
    Considering Fuuinjutsu are Kanji, japanese letters, the only understanding of them would be by reading them.
    Look at the curse mark, only Kakashi understood what it was, had they taught them about Fuuinjutsu, everyone present would have realized that sasuke had activated a fuuinjutsu containing stored dark chakra.
    But everyone just stood gawping at him like "What the hell just happened"
    Fuuinjutsu is directly related to Kinjutsu, in a way yin and yang are, fuuinjutsu is the pinnacle of hidden techniques pretty much, a very select few ninja use kinjutsu and fuuinjutsu, fuuinjutsu are light based in some ways, sealing techniques, Kinjutsu are dark based revival techniques.
    Assuming everyone knew fuuinjutsu they wouldn't need sealing teams in the ninja war in the manga would they?
    Everyone could just seal the edo's.
    thtas because most of them were un expirenced 12 year olds all the jonins saw it and udner stood it right away. they knew it was orochimarus curse seal.
     
         

  3. #43
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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by -Haku Yuki- View Post
    thtas because most of them were un expirenced 12 year olds all the jonins saw it and udner stood it right away. they knew it was orochimarus curse seal.
    Kakashi was the only one to understand it, and again the evidence was easy enough to come by, Orochimaru attacked him, he has a seal on his neck when it activates he becomes monstorously powerful.
    Nothing to amazing there, they got all this information prior to making any judgement, do you see what i mean?
    When i use the FTG the only time it can be deducted in my opinion is when they actually seal me teleport to the kunai, like actually watch me do it.
    Not when a seal flies past them, oh look a seal....He must be able to teleport to that seal, i mean ninja do that all the time hurr durr...
     
         

  4. #44
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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Iirc the fourth raikage speculated Minato jumps to one of his FTG kunai, not knowing they were marked just from seeing it once. I may be wrong, but this is how I interpreted it when I saw it in the manga. And it's not like it's impossible to get away from something like that. Remember the stunt we pulled on Konoha with all the shadow clones?

    But you're right. Hearing about someone is one thing, knowing how it works on the other hand is totally different.

    If this metagaming thing were to come into effect, I think it should be based on what that particular bio has come across. Your first bio may have fought a wood user and survived, your second bio still wouldn't know unless they've come into contact with the first bio with this 'intel' or have previously fought one.
     
         
    Last edited by Alternative; 11-23-2012 at 02:43 PM.

  5. #45
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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternative View Post
    Iirc the fourth raikage speculated Minato jumps to one of his FTG kunai, not knowing they were marked just from seeing it once. I may be wrong, but this is how I interpreted it when I saw it in the manga. And it's not like it's impossible to get away from something like that. Remember the stunt we pulled on Konoha with all the shadow clones?

    But you're right. Hearing about someone is one thing, knowing how it works on the other hand is totally different.

    If this metagaming thing were to come into effect, I think it should be based on what that particular bio has come across. Your first bio may have fought a wood user and survived, your second bio still wouldn't know unless they've come into contact with the first bio with this 'intel' or have previously fought one.
    The first part is nearly correct but the key element is missing, A charged Minato, Minato flicked a kunai past him, he then teleported to a kunai in a tree on the left hand side, A's punch missed he gawped over to the left noting Minato on the tree, then a heartbeat after he hears Minato grab the kunai and slash towards him, B pushes him aside saving him.
    A then thinks to himself, that he is jumping between the marked kunai, this is only after having all this information presented to him.
    But he did have a full view of all kunai, even without understanding fuuinjutsu you could deduct it in that situation, but the key problem is people reply differently to metagame then they would, If my Tobirama bio throws a few kunai people will dodge deflect counter with kunai of there own.
    But on Minato never in a million years will they let a kunai near them, they have to be tricked which is fun and why i do like Minato, but still its not fair to RP like that.
     
         

  6. #46
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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by ReXii View Post
    This is all circumstancial, if you have fought me in the ninja world, against my Minato, saw my FTG gathered some info on it, during the fight of course.
    And lived to tell the tale then yes, if you have a Minato bio, then no neither of us would know, which is why i wear battle armor actually so people don't say "I recognise you" But obviously nobody reads bio's anymore anyway.
    Training with them again no, unless i used or explained the FTG to you while training you for some unexplained reason.
    Basically you can only use what your bio has seen, you can't fight Hashirama and know how his wood techniques work, even if you have "heard" of them.
    Because you could hear he uses wood but have no idea how he uses it, does he extend it from his body? Does he create it from the floor? Can it only be created around him? What are the strengths if it? Is it flexible or stiff? So on so forth.
    Just hearing about something doesn't give you all that knowledge by default.
    @Bolded: Reasonable.
    Quote Originally Posted by -Haku Yuki- View Post
    why couldn't i? i see a kunai with markings on it is it for decortion? i don't think so so logically as fuuinjutsu have seals and marking on them that kunai might aswell so its a possablty you wouldn't be willing to ignore and yeah i would keep my eye and atteion on the kunai because it might be an attack

    also everyvillage has had a minatio bio konoha had dante with the bio after all and gin-san
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXii View Post
    This is my point, what does your character Haku know about fuuinjutsu?
    Do you have fuuinjutsu mastered? Can you understand the kanji of Fuuinjutsu?
    How do you know the kanji isn't related to a KG, how do you know its not the kanji for explode, and its simply an exploding tagged kunai?
    Can you read the kanji on a kunai as it flies at blurred speeds past you?

    The reasons you are making are the very core of Metagaming, Konoha had Minato bio? But its not my bio, my Minato is my own, knowledge of someone else's bio is invalid because we are not clones even if we are the same person, for the sake of RP you act like you don't know, because your bio should never encounter clones full stop.
    It's all used to gain an unfair advantage, by your deductions i could simply say i know all ice jutsu...Because i'm an ice master...I recognise all sharingan genjutsu because i have all of them, none of the basic 5 suprise me because i have that mastered.
    I can read and understand all fuuinjutsu because i am a fuuin master.
    You see how unfair that could be if used?
    I completely agree on this one. Sorry Haku, but his point is valid. I mean we have seen Dante's FTG ability and such but not Rexxi's. The point is, even if the techniques are same, a person can't GodMode and know them all. Why not let it depend upon the bio of a person? Different bio's = Different knowledge about them. Also agreed about the Fuin part. One without knowledge about seals and Kanji how can yo just Know about them. :shrug: I am lame at explaining but I hope you get what I meant
     
         

  7. #47
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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by ReXii View Post
    The first part is nearly correct but the key element is missing, A charged Minato, Minato flicked a kunai past him, he then teleported to a kunai in a tree on the left hand side, A's punch missed he gawped over to the left noting Minato on the tree, then a heartbeat after he hears Minato grab the kunai and slash towards him, B pushes him aside saving him.
    A then thinks to himself, that he is jumping between the marked kunai, this is only after having all this information presented to him.
    But he did have a full view of all kunai, even without understanding fuuinjutsu you could deduct it in that situation, but the key problem is people reply differently to metagame then they would, If my Tobirama bio throws a few kunai people will dodge deflect counter with kunai of there own.
    But on Minato never in a million years will they let a kunai near them, they have to be tricked which is fun and why i do like Minato, but still its not fair to RP like that.
    doesn't help taht you die if your hit >_> according to the jutsus damage -.-
     
         

  8. #48
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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by -Haku Yuki- View Post
    doesn't help taht you die if your hit >_> according to the jutsus damage -.-
    Of course, but thats why i had to pass a long ass battle test against two sensei to earn the right to use the bio, i mean i didn't go through all that to be metagamed at every turn, i would have just made a sharingan like every other metagamer and used the following sentence.

    "My sharingan see's your chakra enter the [earth/sky/mold in your stomach/water] using that knowledge i predict you are going to use a [wind/fire/earth/lightning/water] and prepare to use [Insert elemental weakness to there element] and overpower your technique heading on towards you.
     
         

  9. #49
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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    well, to Haku and to Rexii I must point out somethings to both sides:

    -Cannon wise, even a tenten bio has knowledge of fuin. Here weapon methods are fuin. And all bios in NB can use basic fuuin by taking a scroll and unsealing a weapon stored in it. That is fuuin. So, its not actually a "hidden" ability. It may be hard to grasp and master, yes, but its part of the ninjas basic knowledge much like e-Rank ninjutsu. Even an explosive tag is nothing more than an application of fuuin.

    -FTG isn't exactly, 100% fuuin but rather a self summoning contract. You summon yourself to the tag you put in somewhere. The target is a seal basically because you have your chakra there and need it as a beacon to summon yourself into. When you summon an animal, you use your blood as the "connector" to the contract. Every summon has his blood on the contract as well. And the contract is nothing more than a big, elaborate application of fuuin. Minato does it with or better yet, through his individual chakra. Thus why its a seal. Its inner workings are a mix of both summoning and fuuin. So, saying its only one or the other isn't accurate.

    As for the whole metagaming thing... Rexii you yourself fall under than same old "mistake". We all do at times. Its normal. Its an RP forum game. Example: I make you see butterflies. Ok... you immediately think its a gen and react to it and what not...Well, what if i was a bug user using butterflies? or they were my cannon contract? or they were papper tags transformed into butterflies to fool you? Yet, we alolow it to some degree. Its called adapting the manga to fit the RP and making it work.

    Reborn, 2vs2 battles don't work because sadly 8 out of 10 roleplayers don't show the ability to conduct that type of battle without leading to an endless streak of arguments. Time frame becomes too easiy to mess with. Restrictions become a pain. And in essence the fight becomes a mayhem. But they won't be...forbidden. If both parties agree, then yes. But if they can't find an understanding, the simplest, more viable option will be enforced.

    Guys, this type of free for all war and RP doesn't work. Simple. So it mus be conducted in a viable manner and forget a bit about the realism part of the cannon side of things. We can't say 30 ninjas attack at once a village vs 30 defenders. Nor 4 vs 10 nor any other number we might find reasonable. The RP is an interpretation and an application of Narutoverse. but we need to shape things to make them viable and work, otherwise it won't. It wouold be cool that we could fololow and make it work and such but we can't. So we need to shape it to fit our context and to fit our context things need to be editted to make it work. And that will make it so that fights will need to be as simple as possible and as much organization and guiidelines will be enforced as possible otherwise...nothing happens but flames ...
     
         

  10. #50
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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorps View Post
    -War will lose much of the "freedom" to be a bit more restricted much like a tournament. It will go smoother.
    Say I prove to the RP Mods that I'm responsible enough to handle some 'free roleplay', would it be possible for me and others who have done the same to do some actual roleplaying?
    Honestly, I see the point of this rule, but it saddens me greatly that it's needed in the first place.
     
         

  11. #51
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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorps View Post
    well, to Haku and to Rexii I must point out somethings to both sides:

    -Cannon wise, even a tenten bio has knowledge of fuin. Here weapon methods are fuin. And all bios in NB can use basic fuuin by taking a scroll and unsealing a weapon stored in it. That is fuuin. So, its not actually a "hidden" ability. It may be hard to grasp and master, yes, but its part of the ninjas basic knowledge much like e-Rank ninjutsu. Even an explosive tag is nothing more than an application of fuuin.

    -FTG isn't exactly, 100% fuuin but rather a self summoning contract. You summon yourself to the tag you put in somewhere. The target is a seal basically because you have your chakra there and need it as a beacon to summon yourself into. When you summon an animal, you use your blood as the "connector" to the contract. Every summon has his blood on the contract as well. And the contract is nothing more than a big, elaborate application of fuuin. Minato does it with or better yet, through his individual chakra. Thus why its a seal. Its inner workings are a mix of both summoning and fuuin. So, saying its only one or the other isn't accurate.

    As for the whole metagaming thing... Rexii you yourself fall under than same old "mistake". We all do at times. Its normal. Its an RP forum game. Example: I make you see butterflies. Ok... you immediately think its a gen and react to it and what not...Well, what if i was a bug user using butterflies? or they were my cannon contract? or they were papper tags transformed into butterflies to fool you? Yet, we alolow it to some degree. Its called adapting the manga to fit the RP and making it work.

    Reborn, 2vs2 battles don't work because sadly 8 out of 10 roleplayers don't show the ability to conduct that type of battle without leading to an endless streak of arguments. Time frame becomes too easiy to mess with. Restrictions become a pain. And in essence the fight becomes a mayhem. But they won't be...forbidden. If both parties agree, then yes. But if they can't find an understanding, the simplest, more viable option will be enforced.

    Guys, this type of free for all war and RP doesn't work. Simple. So it mus be conducted in a viable manner and forget a bit about the realism part of the cannon side of things. We can't say 30 ninjas attack at once a village vs 30 defenders. Nor 4 vs 10 nor any other number we might find reasonable. The RP is an interpretation and an application of Narutoverse. but we need to shape things to make them viable and work, otherwise it won't. It wouold be cool that we could fololow and make it work and such but we can't. So we need to shape it to fit our context and to fit our context things need to be editted to make it work. And that will make it so that fights will need to be as simple as possible and as much organization and guiidelines will be enforced as possible otherwise...nothing happens but flames ...
    Totally agree mate, i done it a lot previously, but these days after understanding the principle i try not to, i mean before it just seemed like the accepted thing to me, i learnt by watching others, but as i got more senior to the site, although i doubt senior can be used i mean i still have not hit the two year mark, i started to realize how very wrong it was to do things like that, a prime example of how the RP should look is in mine and Zero's thread, he responded once alerted, when he wondered who arrived cookie said "Minato and Tobirama" that was a small metagame but nothing big, but Zero's reply is what really made the moment legit.
    "Never heard of them"
    That is the reply expected and as a fair reply to that kindness when i did *****slap him with the FTG, i used my lack of knowledge regarding his lightning armor in the ninja world and simply used a normal rasengan, which i as a player know can't kill him because it didn't kill A in my bio test when i hit him with the same combo.
    I could have went all cheap and nasty and used like a wind rasengan for some prime douchebagging.
    But why do you need to, it means nothing to me if i win or lose this one, it was to prove a point and Zero proved it perfectly with his behaviour, i'm actually impressed with it.
     
         

  12. #52
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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Kelvin View Post
    Say I prove to the RP Mods that I'm responsible enough to handle some 'free roleplay', would it be possible for me and others who have done the same to do some actual roleplaying?
    Honestly, I see the point of this rule, but it saddens me greatly that it's needed in the first place.
    Off course you will. The rules SY is making pertains to War between RP villages and not roleplay in general. Not only that but Konoha Town will face a revamp (speaking of which, see the sticky thread i made there) and we are working on the organization of what RP in free form (so to speak) can or should be done.

    The only thing that will be done is rules of condcut for the Ninja World. Things like "no psam, no flame, no offensive posts, etc etc" as well as some sort of code of respect for sensies and mods so that arguments can be dealt with less flame and less...hum..."talk back no jutsu".

    But in essence, the ninja world will be the same as it has been, except that war and interaction (official ones) between villages will be done always accordsing to those rules.
     
         

  13. #53
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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by ReXii View Post
    Of course, but thats why i had to pass a long ass battle test against two sensei to earn the right to use the bio, i mean i didn't go through all that to be metagamed at every turn, i would have just made a sharingan like every other metagamer and used the following sentence.

    "My sharingan see's your chakra enter the [earth/sky/mold in your stomach/water] using that knowledge i predict you are going to use a [wind/fire/earth/lightning/water] and prepare to use [Insert elemental weakness to there element] and overpower your technique heading on towards you.
    If we really wanted to metagame hard, you wouldn't be allowed to use anything apart from what your character knows. Custom characters wouldn't be allowed unless severe restrictions are placed on them as to what jutsu they can use so that it ties in with canon characters. Even though Kakashi's main element was lightning, doesn't mean he knows every single lightning technique and how to use it. Having a Minato bio meant you could use nothing but 2 Fuuin techniques and FTG techniques. Just as examples.

    I honestly think it's fine as it is. The metagame as I see it is everyone having the potential to being able to know every single technique from the basic five regardless. Breaking that is nigh impossible. Something else which no one else will really comply to is fighting in regards to what they know at the time in a sense. I'll use your Uchiha thing as an example. I launch a fire jutsu at you and follow up with a lightning technique. You having a Sharingan can guess it's fire and retaliate with a water technique, but you as a person know there's a lightning technique coming after it, so you defend with something else like Earth.
     
         

  14. #54
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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorps View Post
    Reborn, 2vs2 battles don't work because sadly 8 out of 10 roleplayers don't show the ability to conduct that type of battle without leading to an endless streak of arguments. Time frame becomes too easiy to mess with. Restrictions become a pain. And in essence the fight becomes a mayhem. But they won't be...forbidden. If both parties agree, then yes. But if they can't find an understanding, the simplest, more viable option will be enforced.
    Well aren't there also rules being place to regulate the arguments between members and their battles? Couldn't that as well act as a fail safe for that issue. As far as timeframe, I can't much speak on that since I haven't been in a 2v2 or even a tag battle situation in general.

    Though as long as peopel aren't required to hold 1v1 matches. The way it came off was that every fight had to be strictly 1v1. Though the way you said it was basically how I thought about it, if people agree to the team battles than so be it.
     
         

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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternative View Post
    If we really wanted to metagame hard, you wouldn't be allowed to use anything apart from what your character knows. Custom characters wouldn't be allowed unless severe restrictions are placed on them as to what jutsu they can use so that it ties in with canon characters. Even though Kakashi's main element was lightning, doesn't mean he knows every single lightning technique and how to use it. Having a Minato bio meant you could use nothing but 2 Fuuin techniques and FTG techniques. Just as examples.

    I honestly think it's fine as it is. The metagame as I see it is everyone having the potential to being able to know every single technique from the basic five regardless. Breaking that is nigh impossible. Something else which no one else will really comply to is fighting in regards to what they know at the time in a sense. I'll use your Uchiha thing as an example. I launch a fire jutsu at you and follow up with a lightning technique. You having a Sharingan can guess it's fire and retaliate with a water technique, but you as a person know there's a lightning technique coming after it, so you defend with something else like Earth.
    I actively try to use only stuff Minato has most of the time to be fair, but that is not metagaming, the difference is when you metagame you are deliberately bending the rules established, Metagaming has nothing to do with what you as a bio know, i merely used that as an example, its what you as a character specialise in.
    You can't claim to know every technique in the basic five i think that is retarded, but say you are an earth master, i think its fine to claim knowledge of earth techniques, its all about what you as a person can do, to make you as a RP character reasonable.

    I understand Meta-gaming i really do, people get scared of losing, to much pride on the line etc etc, so they behave unfairly to try and win, but when you realize that you all have the potential to win without any of that crap, you will pass the stage of needing to in my opinion.
     
         

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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    For all those in doubt; 'metagaming' - Knowingly acting upon information you, as a person, is aware of, but which your character is unaware of.
     
         

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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Kelvin View Post
    For all those in doubt; 'metagaming' - Knowingly acting upon information you, as a person, is aware of, but which your character is unaware of.
    Thank you lol
     
         

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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Better View Post
    Thank you lol
    haha I can picture you reading with this thought going through your mind:

    "Da fudge is metagaming?????"

    Then you read Zero's post:

    "Fudging finally"
     
         

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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie.. View Post
    haha I can picture you reading with this thought going through your mind:

    "Da fudge is metagaming?????"

    Then you read Zero's post:

    "Fudging finally"
    that was pretty accurate lol except less PG
     
         

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    Re: Future War Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Better View Post
    that was pretty accurate lol except less PG
    It was accurate because I was in that situation with you

    But I eventually just figured it out myself. And Zero proved me right....
     
         

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