The Sage, His Sons, Their Decendants.

[Piratefish]

The Sage and his genetics:

The Sage was a Senju. His eyes, the Rinnegan, (and the Sharingan) share features with the Juubi's eye. Jinchuuriki are proven to attain certain traits from their contained being, such as Bee's ability to spit ink, and Kushina's crazy hair. So the possibility definitely exists for the Sage's fabled Rinnegan originating from his pet world-destroying demon.

And the Sage's longevity genes wouldn't have come from the Juubi, if anything it'd be reduced. Jinchuuriki die young, and rampage-mode cuts down on life-expectancy and may even harm genetic material.

On the other hand, the Juubi is stated to be the source of all chakra by Kurama:

and this ties in neatly with the Sage being the source of all ninjutsu. Power and control.

The great doujutsu, any of them, don't function well (or at all) without chakra, and wouldn't exactly be in the forefront of the gene pool.

Long life and extreme vitality, however, would. Sage = Senju.




The Sons and Their Descendants:

The Sage of the Six Paths had two Sons, the Sons had many descendants. The two main clans resulting from these two are the Senju and Uchiha:


The Senju and Uchiha were NOT friends:




But what OTHER offshoots spawned from these main branches?

The Older Son:

The Uchiha (Pretty self-evident) - Sharingan.

The Hyuuga (Again, it's fairly obvious) - Byakugan.

The Elder Son's descendants are pretty easy to spot. Their eyes are weird. It gets a little harder with the other son...



The Younger Son:

The Senju (This has been stated many times) - Mokuton, crazy healing and lifeforce.

The Uzumaki (Related to the Senju) - Crazy Lifeforce.

The KinGin Brothers' Clan (They've been stated to be related to the Sage) - Survived the Kyuubi and became pseudo-Jinchuuriki.

The Raikages Clan (What?) - Crazy strong bodies and chakra, hallmarks of the Younger Son. May be related to the KinGin.

The Kaguya (Hmm... Ok.) - Impossibly versatile and powerful bone techniques, vast stamina, good taijutsu (at least the one we saw). May be related to the Juugo, as some element of genetic compatibility seems necessary for the Curse Seal. Though that may just be through being a descendant of the Sage.

The Juugo (WHAT THE ****?) -

Am I the only one with the impression that the Juugo clan seems to have been more powerful too, at one point, considering Kabuto's comments about it?

They posess a "special body", an affinity with nature, and the universal capacity for mastering Sage Mode, an ability which seems most aligned with the descendants of the Younger Son.

Doesn't that sound like a Senju-offshoot to you too?

The Hozuki (WHAT THE ACTUAL ****!? ARE YOU ON DRUGS OR DRUNK OR SOMETHING?) -
If one defines a "powerful body" as a durable and potent one, the Hozuki kind of qualify, though I admit they are the least likely candidates inluded.

Here's one (almost) fighting on the level of a demon, purely using Hozuki Techniques:

He later TANKS one of the Hachibi's attacks, PURELY through using some water in addition to his natural durability.

Tobirama proves that there ARE elements of the Younger Son's lineage that are highly inclined towards water, who's to say the Hozuki aren't the result of some water-aligned Senju breaking away and making their own clan?


Whaddaya think?

PS: I had fun simulating your reactions to this.

EDIT: Added the Kaguya.

Also, as genetic compatibility is an element in the transplantation of the Juugos' natural ability (CS), could it be that 1/10 of the people in the Narutoverse are (however distantly) related to the Sage, and that the obvious traits are only found in more preserved bloodlines?

If so, the Hyuuga would be the purer bloodline (between the Uchiha and Hyuuga) as every Hyuuga awakens the Byakugan. Looks like Kakashi had a point, maybe.

LATER EDIT: Added some of my refutations concerning the recent "Sage was an Uzumaki!"-theory.

As you may have gathered from this, I disagreed with the Sage being an Uzumaki, and I still do. Senju also have extreme vitality as well, and though they aren't as reknowed for their sealing abilities, they still HAVE some, as Tobirama proves with the creation of the Edo Tensei, Tsunade with her Forehead Seal, and Hashirama with the Contract Breaking Seal (that may be non-canon though) and the Scroll of Forbidden Seals.

The Senju also, unlike the Uzumaki (as far as I can recall) are/were proficient at making powerful objects. Like the Shodaime's Necklace:


As to the Sage being unable to use ninjutsu pre-Sealing, it's an interesting thought. However, as Kurama states, the Juubi is the source of all chakra, and as such people being ABLE to use ninjutsu had little to do with whether the Sage was a Jinchuuriki or not. He may have been the source of ninjutsu, but he didn't IMPLANT the ability to use ninjutsu into anyone, and I see no reason why people, even the Sage himself, couldn't use ninjutsu before he became a Jinchuuriki.

[Come At Me bro]

1st comment and i agree

[Hus]

nice thread but everybody went to sleep

[rollin]

good theory it explains why kabuto said he was the closest to the sage and all he needed was a uchiha body
i made a theory a while back that the jinchuuriki's are all related to the younger son
http://www.narutobase.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=246010

[DrProof]

You suck.. How could you forget the Kaguya? You disgrace me. Don't talk to me ever again bro!

OT: Nice job, you took a step further into the evolution.

[Clarity]

So what new did you bring on the table?

[DrProof]

So what new did you bring on the table?

Are you serious? Where has this been explained on this forum? Are you telling me you already knew this? The ignorance is tremendous in this post.

[rollin]

also it explains what kabuto meant when he said that madara is just a fragment of the sage's power
madara just focused on being senju and uchiha while kabuto was trying to get everything the sage had

[Paintry4]

Hmmm thats really interesting.uchiha are only evolved in 2 generations but senju have many....... Omg

[Piratefish]

You suck.. How could you forget the Kaguya? You disgrace me. Don't talk to me ever again bro!

OT: Nice job, you took a step further into the evolution.

The Kaguya are a possible group, though their power lies in bone and willpower rather than body and stamina. As it's not actually Kimimaro's ENTIRE body which was strong, in fact his disease meant his actual body was pretty frail. The only other comparable disease is Itachi, who is NOT a Senju type, to say the least. Thatcould be why I didn't think of him.

Hmmm thats really interesting.uchiha are only evolved in 2 generations but senju have many....... Omg

I figure that's because the Senju traits are more securely established in the Sage's genetic code. The Juubi overrode the Sage's actual traits in the first son (the kid was born with pseudo-Jinchuuriki traits, like Naruto at his birth), and the Sage fixed it for his later kid. This kid was also, seemingly, more likely to have "spread his seed" as it were. Adopting LOVE as a philosophy, I mean really. He must have been pretty fertile, what with the stamina and all...

[DrProof]

The Kaguya are a possible group, though their power lies in bone and willpower rather than body and stamina. As it's not actually Kimimaro's ENTIRE body which was strong, in fact his disease meant his actual body was pretty frail. The only other comparable disease is Itachi, who is NOT a Senju type, to say the least. Thatcould be why I didn't think of him.

Remember in Part 1 when Orochimaru talked about Kimimaro being the perfect body? That doesn't necessarily only go with his KKG, that goes along with his durability, stamina etc.. He even took on a Sand Tsunami, and lived.. That's insane durability.. The disease however sure was a problem, but calling him frail? I don't think so lol.

In the databook isn't his stamina a 4.5 or a 5? He could have easily been a descendant, as also he was a great taijutsu user, and very versatile as most people related to the younger brother are..

[Piratefish]

Remember in Part 1 when Orochimaru talked about Kimimaro being the perfect body? That doesn't necessarily only go with his KKG, that goes along with his durability, stamina etc.. He even took on a Sand Tsunami, and lived.. That's insane durability.. The disease however sure was a problem, but calling him frail? I don't think so lol.

In the databook isn't his stamina a 4.5 or a 5? He could have easily been a descendant, as also he was a great taijutsu user, and very versatile as most people related to the younger brother are..

You may very well be right. The Sand Tsunami was in a large part due to the CS, though, wasn't it? His stamina, when healthy, would have been considerable, I agree. I guess he deserves a spot.

[DrProof]

You may very well be right. The Sand Tsunami was in a large part due to the CS, though, wasn't it? His stamina, when healthy, would have been considerable, I agree. I guess he deserves a spot.

Hm.. Curse Mark probably was some factor in that, but Bones Kimimaro's bones were very strong from the start which also helped as you stated earlier.. I believe he could have tanked it without CM but would have attained more damage to his body.. He was also able to regenerate his bones quickly so I mean..

Nvm i'm making a thread about how Kimimaro could have been a Senju descendant.

[Justice]

I don't really have something to say about your thread, but I liked it.

[Piratefish]

I don't really have something to say about your thread, but I liked it.

You could say it was logical and well-thought-out, and tell all your friends to read it.

^^

[thegame]

Hi. I also believe more in this theory, than the "sage was uzumkai"-theory.

If you know a little about genetics, it wouldn't make sense if he was Uzumaki. I know he had certain magic to split his DNA into his 2 sons, so they would get different abilities, however, if one son needs DNA from the other, to awaken the rinnengan, the other is more likely to have the original genes from the sage.

It of course also depends, whether you believe he was born with rinnengan or not. I still have problems believing that they come from the Juubi, despite its look-alike. It's just too obvious it would also mean that Naruto is probably going to get the rinnengan, which I seriously doubt, since it is just way too predictable. We don't need a "hero" that has to be just like the previous savior. Naruto is Naruto, not so so6p.

[Piratefish]

Added some stuff on my opinion concerning the Sage being an Uzumaki.

[Cowthulhu45]

The Sage and his genetics:

The Sage was a Senju(No he wasnt). His eyes, the Rinnegan(their the same idiot), (and the Sharingan) share features with the Juubi's eye. Jinchuuriki are proven to attain certain traits from their contained being, such as Bee's ability to spit ink, and Kushina's crazy hair(that had nothing to do with kyuubi). So the possibility definitely exists for the Sage's fabled Rinnegan originating from his pet world-destroying demon.(Oh god, not another one. Did he fisticuffs it?)

And the Sage's longevity genes wouldn't have come from the Juubi(Proove that exists), if anything it'd be reduced. Jinchuuriki die young(thats not true, their is no evidence), and rampage-mode cuts down on life-expectancy and may even harm genetic material.

On the other hand, the Juubi is stated to be the source of all chakra by Kurama:
I got rid of the pic.
and this ties in neatly with the Sage being the source of all ninjutsu.(Without chakra, how did sage beat him? Also, when people are running out of chakra, they die, so they can produce some) Power and control.

The great doujutsu, any of them, don't function well (or at all) without chakra, and wouldn't exactly be in the forefront of the gene pool.

Long life and extreme vitality, however, would. Sage = Senju. HE'S NOT A SENJU!




The Sons and Their Descendants:

The Sage of the Six Paths had two Sons, the Sons had many descendants. The two main clans resulting from these two are the Senju and Uchiha:
Ya another deleted pic.

The Senju and Uchiha were NOT friends:
Actualy, One of them disliked the other. Deleted pic.



But what OTHER offshoots spawned from these main branches?

The Older Son:

The Uchiha (Pretty self-evident) - Sharingan.

The Hyuuga (Again, it's fairly obvious) - Byakugan.

The Elder Son's descendants are pretty easy to spot. Their eyes are weird. It gets a little harder with the other son...
Ya, we knew that. They said that in part one.

The Younger Son:

The Senju (This has been stated many times) - Mokuton, crazy healing and lifeforce. No, Mukuton was one guy, and crazy healing was two people. And you forgot the DNA being elixir of life.

The Uzumaki (Related to the Senju) - Crazy Lifeforce.

The KinGin Brothers' Clan (They've been stated to be related to the Sage) - Survived the Kyuubi and became pseudo-Jinchuuriki. Theyve been speculated to be related to the sage

The Raikages Clan (What?) - Crazy strong bodies and chakra, hallmarks of the Younger Son. May be related to the KinGin. What?

The Kaguya (Hmm... Ok.) - Impossibly versatile and powerful bone techniques, vast stamina, good taijutsu (at least the one we saw). May be related to the Juugo, as some element of genetic compatibility seems necessary for the Curse Seal. Though that may just be through being a descendant of the Sage. What? part two: Huh?

The Juugo (WHAT THE ****?) - Yes What


The Hozuki (WHAT THE ACTUAL ****!? ARE YOU ON DRUGS OR DRUNK OR SOMETHING?) -
If one defines a "powerful body" as a durable and potent one, the Hozuki kind of qualify, though I admit they are the least likely candidates inluded. Oh come on your just being silly now.


He later TANKS one of the Hachibi's attacks, PURELY through using some water in addition to his natural durability.
Note how he one one hit KOed
Tobirama proves that there ARE elements of the Younger Son's lineage that are highly inclined towards water, who's to say the Hozuki aren't the result of some water-aligned Senju breaking away and making their own clan?
One guy can use water style! must be related!

Whaddaya think?

PS: I had fun simulating your reactions to this.

EDIT: Added the Kaguya.

Also, as genetic compatibility is an element in the transplantation of the Juugos' natural ability (CS), could it be that 1/10 of the people in the Narutoverse are (however distantly) related to the Sage, and that the obvious traits are only found in more preserved bloodlines? You had no prove he was related to the sage.

If so, the Hyuuga would be the purer bloodline (between the Uchiha and Hyuuga) as every Hyuuga awakens the Byakugan. Looks like Kakashi had a point, maybe. Ok thats true. Hence why older brother is called Hyuuga.

Edited Quote

[Hafiz Dembos]

Sounds legit although I do not think that it is completely right.

[Piratefish]

Edited Quote

Well done, you. Way to not actually present a single argument as a counter.

Name a single Jinchuuriki that died of old age apart from the Sage. Using a V2 cloak damages the body to the point where it cuts down on lifespan drastically, exactly like Tsunade's Genesis Rebirth. There's a limited amount of times a cell can be repaired, which is why "Old Age" is a thing. Healing something instantly cuts down on the amount of time you have left. Jinchuuriki, and Tsunade, will die before their natural time.

Simply DELETING pictures because you don't like their content doesn't help your argument in any way.

The Juubi being the source of all chakra doesn't mean NOTHING else even HAD chakra. Just that Juubi had it first, and THEN other beings developed the capacity to use it.

Prove why you think the Sage was no Senju. If you can present a reasonable argument, I will change my views. Capslock is not a reasonable argument.

The Senju and Uchiha were in continual conflict throughout the pre-Village era.

Mokuton was restricted to a single person. It's still a Senju Kekkei Genkai, but a very rare one. Extreme healing being achieved by at least two people in the clan shows a trend towards the capacity for healing. It's not a bloodline, but a technique. Still, the fact that two Senju have achieved it and no-one else shows their tendency towards healing, due to their superb vitality, being abnormally high.

Just because YOU can't wrap your head around an argument doesn't mean there's no merit to the argument. It just adds another point to the list of things you don't understand.

Note how Suigetsu survived a full-on, direct hit from the Hachibi. Do you know who else has done that? The Third Raikage, and he had Raiton Armor, not a surrounding layer made up of something virtually identical to himself.

Know who ELSE has done that? No-one.

I have no direct statements from an impartial character stating Juugo was related to the Sage, true. However, he:
Posesses a special body
An affinity for nature
A large chakra capacity
The natural capacity for Sage Mode

That certainly SUGGESTS that they're related to the younger brother.

The older brother being called Hyuuga? What are you talking about?

Sounds legit although I do not think that it is completely right.

What bits do you think seem unlikely?

[ChuckeffinNorris]

well another person who can heal w/o handsigns is karin uzumaki and that is just her vitality or dna that causes it

[KingHashirama]

Just stopped reading.... when it went against the manga. ^_^

No offence.. but half of those made no damn sense..... And also, Hyuuga under the older son? WTH. X_X.

Also, the sage had already started the shinobi sect before he faced the juubi. And a shinobi is one who can use ninjutsu.

[Piratefish]

Just stopped reading.... when it went against the manga. ^_^

And when was that? As far as I can tell, all of these are fairly reasonable assumptions.

No offence.. but half of those made no damn sense..... And also, Hyuuga under the older son? WTH. X_X.

Younger Son = Powerful body, powerful chakra. All of my examples fit, didn't they?

Oh, the Hyuuga AREN'T the Sage's progeny? Well that's just spectacularly wrong of you.

Also, the sage had already started the shinobi sect before he faced the juubi. And a shinobi is one who can use ninjutsu.

No evidence AT ALL that he "started the shinobi sect" beofre fighting the Juubi. Prove it. Also, did I ever say anything to the contrary of the Sage using ninjutsu? Why are you refuting points I didn't bring up, and badly at that?

[KingHashirama]

And when was that? As far as I can tell, all of these are fairly reasonable assumptions.



Younger Son = Powerful body, powerful chakra. All of my examples fit, didn't they?

Oh, the Hyuuga AREN'T the Sage's progeny? Well that's just spectacularly wrong of you.



No evidence AT ALL that he "started the shinobi sect" beofre fighting the Juubi. Prove it. Also, did I ever say anything to the contrary of the Sage using ninjutsu? Why are you refuting points I didn't bring up, and badly at that?

Fine you brought it upon yourself. When you went against the manga? When you included rest of the clans that have no connection to the senju .. under the younger brother. Uzumaki descend from the senju.. thats the only reason they fall under the younger brother. They are senju linage. And they still aren't complete senju. Since they lack the "powerful body". Your examples were WAY off. o-o

And where was it stated Hyuuga are part of the Uchiha? If they didn't descend from the Uchiha.. then they aren't part of the Older son's linage. Senju and Uchiha are final.

You stated he probably got the ninjutsu from the juubi ^_^. But he apparently walked and spread his word/religion. I will find the scans tomorrow to support all my arguments.

[Piratefish]

Fine you brought it upon yourself. When you went against the manga? When you included rest of the clans that have no connection to the senju .. under the younger brother. Uzumaki descend from the senju.. thats the only reason they fall under the younger brother. They are senju linage. And they still aren't complete senju. Since they lack the "powerful body". Your examples were WAY off. o-o

Just because someone aren't STATED to be related to the Senju doesn't mean they aren't. The Uzumaki were stated to be "distant relatives" of the Senju, not their descendants. Who KNOWS how many descendants the Sage may have had, with his life so far in the past that it's practically MYTH? And if you include the fact that his genetics apply MASSIVE advantages on any of his descendants AND that the Senju are extremely vital, it's not at all surprising if my examples are correct.

If they share traits like supreme life-force, chakra or powerul bodies, who's to say they aren't?

And where was it stated Hyuuga are part of the Uchiha? If they didn't descend from the Uchiha.. then they aren't part of the Older son's linage. Senju and Uchiha are final.

Who was the source of the quote that said Senju and Uchiha were the direct descendants of the Sage? An Uchiha. You can see how that might be biased.

The Older Son did not have the Sharingan. He had powerful eyes and chakra. The Hyuuga fit that profile equally well.

There can ONLY be Senju and Uchiha, and those EXPLICITLY STATED to be related to them in the manga, is that what you're saying? What about the KinGin? They're related to neither Senju nor Uzumaki (in fact they're direct ENEMIES of BOTH) yet they're STILL in posession of similar traits to the Sage. With that in mind, how can you say there aren't more of them?

You stated he probably got the ninjutsu from the juubi ^_^. But he apparently walked and spread his word/religion. I will find the scans tomorrow to support all my arguments.

I stated that the Juubi is the source of all chakra, and the Sage the source of ninjutsu. Please, try to actually read.