View Poll Results: Did he surpass them?
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Yes (manga proof)

No (opinion)





Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
he surpassed minato cause he perfected rasengan into rasenshuriken
he surpassed jiraiya cause he perfected sage mode
thats all there is to it










Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Originally Posted by rikerslade
That's the point. Minato was unable to learn it because he died and didn't have enough time. His level is zero, SMwise.
Jiraiya has been able to learn Sage Mode, but not master it. His Level is 1.
Naruto has mastered Sage Mode, so his Level is 2.
Thus, he has surpassed them both in Sage Mode.
I highly doubt that is what he meant. There is nothing in the manga that supports that claim. He meant exactly what he said.






Konoha no Kiroi Senko




Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Originally Posted by Omnipotent
Prove that Fukasaku was talking about Sage Mode, and not that Naruto just blitzed to save Tsunade from the Asura Path. Then, prove that Minato was going to learn Sage Mode.
Prove that Madara can/cannot use Amaterasu & Tsukiyomi...
C'mon dude, don't be this dumb...










Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Originally Posted by lol99
he surpassed minato cause he perfected rasengan into rasenshuriken
he surpassed jiraiya cause he perfected sage mode
thats all there is to it
Only when you can prove that's what Fukasaku was referring to.
Originally Posted by YellowFang
Your sig simplifies it and you argue against it???
You're just mad my sig > your avatar. Anyways, the manga > me, so what am I supposed to do?
Originally Posted by YellowFang
Prove that Madara can/cannot use Amaterasu & Tsukiyomi...
C'mon dude, don't be this dumb...
Offtopic.





Last edited by Omnipotent; 11242012 at 03:30 PM.





Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Originally Posted by Omnipotent
Prove that Fukasaku was talking about Sage Mode, and not that Naruto just blitzed to save Tsunade from the Asura Path. Then, prove that Minato was going to learn Sage Mode.
But according to those two manga pages, Naruto surpassed both Minato and Jiraiya.
I can't "prove" it. That's just how I've interpreted it. After all, can you prove he wasn't talking about Sage Mode? Can you prove Minato wasn't in the process of or intended to learn Sage Mode?










Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Originally Posted by rikerslade
I can't "prove" it. That's just how I've interpreted it. After all, can you prove he wasn't talking about Sage Mode? Can you prove Minato wasn't in the process of or intended to learn Sage Mode?
The reason you can't prove it is because the old toad meant that Naruto in Sage Mode was stronger. Its plain and simple. You are argueing against the Manga.










Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Originally Posted by lol99
he surpassed minato cause he perfected rasengan into rasenshuriken
he surpassed jiraiya cause he perfected sage mode
thats all there is to it
This can't be it, as Geezer Frog didn't know about Rasenshuriken.










Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Originally Posted by rikerslade
I can't "prove" it. That's just how I've interpreted it. After all, can you prove he wasn't talking about Sage Mode? Can you prove Minato wasn't in the process of or intended to learn Sage Mode?
So, if you can't prove it, why even suggest it? If the manga never shows or implies that Minato was in the process of learning or ever intended to learn Sage Mode, then it's a "no".






Don't front.




Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
In terms of mastering Sage Mode, obviously.










Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Originally Posted by saw2097
The reason you can't prove it is because the old toad meant that Naruto in Sage Mode was stronger. Its plain and simple. You are argueing against the Manga.
The reason I can't prove it is because it wasn't outrightly stated. I am not arguing against the manga, I am interpreting it in a different way. *derp*










Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Originally Posted by Omnipotent
So, if you can't prove it, why even suggest it? If the manga never shows or implies that Minato was in the process of learning or ever intended to learn Sage Mode, then it's a "no".
The manga has never shown he.wasn't, so then it must be a yes. Using your logic, in the end, it comes down to "maybe" and is left up to interpretation and speculation.






Member




Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Maybie now with BM mode he surpassed them but here is no way he do that back then in fight with pain.










Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Originally Posted by rikerslade
The manga has never shown he.wasn't, so then it must be a yes. Using your logic, in the end, it comes down to "maybe" and is left up to interpretation and speculation.
It's not my logic. It's what the majority of people on NB believe; I disagreed with it at first as well but now I agree with it. Just because Minato hasn't been shown to use Byakugou, does that mean he can? I don't think so.










Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Originally Posted by Itachi8179
Maybie now with BM mode he surpassed them but here is no way he do that back then in fight with pain.
You are argueing against the manga. The frog said Naruto had surpassed them both in SM, he was being pretty clear about it.










Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Originally Posted by Omnipotent
It's not my logic. It's what the majority of people on NB believe; I disagreed with it at first as well but now I agree with it. Just because Minato hasn't been shown to use Byakugou, does that mean he can? I don't think so.
True. However, you have to use your brain. We know Minato has no relation to Byawhatever, but he does have a relation to Sage Mode,.thus, your analogy is invalid.






Kage




Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
I do believe he was talking about him mastering Sage mode, While no one can prove he has it, There are alot of things that point towards him atleast knowing of it.
His Teacher knew it, He has a contract with the toads, Pa seems to know him quite well, If minato infact did know Pa then theres a chance he also taught him sage mode.
I think he did have it just didn't have the time to master it/complete the training.
Also Nagato's victory over jiraiya was only because he was able to keep pains secret from jiraiya, He himself admited if jiraiya had known of this they migth not of won.
Yet naruto had almost full info on pain, Far far more than jiraiya ever had, yet asoon as deva paths powers came back he got stomped.
If naruto had truely surpassed jiraiya in everyway and not just Sm, naruto wouldn't of had as much trouble against pain.










Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Originally Posted by rikerslade
True. However, you have to your brain. We know Minato has no relation to Byawhatever, but he does have a relation to Sage Mode,.thus, your analogy is invalid.
Yes, but you're assuming that Minato attempted to learn Sage Mode, when nothing in the manga (or even the anime) suggests this at all. Furthermore, we can only assume that they did IF there is anything that even hints towards it (such as Minato stating Tobirama had S/T jutsu, from this we can assume that Orochimaru was using both Hashirama and Tobirama to toy with Hiruzen, because no where did we see Tobirama use any S/T). Unfortunately for you, nothing at all hints that Minato attempted to learn Sage Mode. And because we can't choose the nonexistant "maybe" option, we must choose the "no" option.










Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Originally Posted by Exaar
I do believe he was talking about him mastering Sage mode, While no one can prove he has it, There are alot of things that point towards him atleast knowing of it.
His Teacher knew it, He has a contract with the toads, Pa seems to know him quite well, If minato infact did know Pa then theres a chance he also taught him sage mode.
I think he did have it just didn't have the time to master it/complete the training.
Also Nagato's victory over jiraiya was only because he was able to keep pains secret from him, He himself admited if jiraiya had known of this they migth not of won.
Yet naruto had almost full info on pain, Far far more than jiraiya ever had, yet asoon as deva paths powers came back he got stomped.
Untill proof is presented in the manga, then we should assume that Sage Mode Naruto has surpassed Minato. There is no proof that Minato is trying to learn Sage mode and the wording of the manga is Kishi's word.
Jariya never fought Deva Path. He had a hard time with just 3. Naruto fought five at once with the info and crushed them. Deva Path only gained the upper hand when he killed Pa, and Naruto ran out of Senjutsu.
So when Deva Path "stomped him" Naruto wasn't even in Sage Mode.
By the way Base Naruto ultimatley defeated Deva Path.





Last edited by saw2097; 11242012 at 03:51 PM.





Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Originally Posted by Omnipotent
Yes, but you're assuming that Minato attempted to learn Sage Mode, when nothing in the manga (or even the anime) suggests this at all. Furthermore, we can only assume that they did IF there is anything that even hints towards it (such as Minato stating Tobirama had S/T jutsu, from this we can assume that Orochimaru was using both Hashirama and Tobirama to toy with Hiruzen, because no where did we see Tobirama use any S/T). Unfortunately for you, nothing at all hints that Minato attempted to learn Sage Mode. And because we can't choose the nonexistant "maybe" option, we must choose the "no" option.
And at the same time, nothing suggests Minato DIDN'T attempt to learn Sage Mode. Minato attempting to learn Sage Mode makes a lot more sense than him NOT attempting to learn it. Therefore, the "yes" option exists just as much as the "no" option. These cancel each other out and leaves us with "maybe" because there's no proof he didn't attempt it and there's no prood he did.
You need to think outside the box more.





Last edited by Rockatansky; 11242012 at 03:59 PM.





Re: SM Naruto surpasses both Jiraiya and Minato
Originally Posted by saw2097
Untill proof is presented in the manga, then we should assume that Sage Mode Naruto has surpassed Minato. There is no proof that Minato is trying to learn Sage mode and the wording of the manga is Kishi's word.
Jariya never fought Deva Path. He had a hard time with just 3. Naruto fought five at once with the info and crushed them. Deva Path only gained the upper hand when he killed Pa, and Naruto ran out of Senjutsu.
So when Deva Path "stomped him" Naruto wasn't even in Sage Mode.
By the way Base Naruto ultimatley defeated Deva Path.
Naruto actuallylost to Deva Path. Even while Naruto was in Sage Mode, Pein pinned him down. If Hinata didn't show up, Naruto would have been dead. And the only reason Naruto got as far as he did was because Deva didn't have full use of his powers for a while and even when he did, Pein didn't go all out. He could have easily skewed Naruto's head instead of his hands or back, but he needed Naruto alive.





Last edited by Rockatansky; 11242012 at 03:58 PM.
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