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  1. #51
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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Madara hath clearly stated you need senju and uchiha powers to attain the rennigan
    The so6p has both powers

    Why would he need the jubbi to attain rennigan when madara is clear proof that the jubbi isn't needed to attain the rennigan.
     
         

  2. #52
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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by SageMode 23 View Post
    I love this thread but u looked over one thing... Tsunade said it herself that "naruto's personality and NINJUTSU style are identical to his mother's". Click on the link then go to the description of her personality.... http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Kushina_Uzumaki

    Uzumaki CAN use ninjutsu but specialize in sealing...end of discussion
    A couple of things.

    First: that's only one point I made in the thread, even if proved wrong, it doesn't end the discussion.

    Second: the source you pulled is a fan site. It is written by fans and I personally never use when trying to make an argurment. It is a fan based site, not cannon.

    Third: If they are referring to this



    Then Tsunade could have meant a variety of things. I do know, that she didn't say Jutsu.

    Fourth: Kushina saying she wasn't good at ninjutsu only strengthens my point, no? She was brought over as a kid and put in the academy. Her failure at ninjutsu just shows she was not capable of it. How was she to know her clan was never meant to use ninjutsu?

    Thank you for the post, you may be right, but I don't think your evidence is good enough to disprove my theory.
     
         

  3. #53
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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by ' ~ Dantee ~ ' View Post
    I like your theory and all but I believe it's the way the manga has already told it. The uzumaki's are simply the decendents from the Senju clan.

    For one it's not that the Uzamaki couldn't use ninjutsu they just specialize in sealing <-----. There is nothing has been said in the manga the uzumaki's weren't able to use ninjutsu.

    For your second point you can't really say he had it or not because it was unclear when he started teaching people ninjutsu. Also the picture you showed looks more the sharigan than the rinnegan to me.

    Your last claim is also nonsense when you say he didn't teach people about chakra/ninjutsu when it was clearly stated he did. Chakra itself did not come from the Juubi. All living things have chakra how do you think the Sage was able to weild such weapons.
    One: Manga never states the Uzumaki are descendants of Senju, only that they were distant relatives. My thread explains this.

    Two: Show me one page. Just one. Where an Uzumaki is using some type of ninjutsu, I dont care how insignificant and I will agree with you.

    Three: I never said he didn't have chakra before he faught the Juubi. Uzumaki's have chakra, that was never the point of the thread. Ninjutstu is another story. The idea of NINJA did not emerge till after the defeat of the Juubi.


    Edit: And to your point about the Juubi not having the Rinnengan. Look closley, the Sharingan Tomae are on the ripple patterns of the Rinnengan.
     
         
    Last edited by Tebows Youth Group; 11-25-2012 at 07:54 AM.

  4. #54
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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by Sexy Steel View Post
    Madara hath clearly stated you need senju and uchiha powers to attain the rennigan
    The so6p has both powers

    Why would he need the jubbi to attain rennigan when madara is clear proof that the jubbi isn't needed to attain the rennigan.
    You didn't read the thread?

    If you did the answer is in there I promise...
     
         

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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebows Youth Group View Post
    A couple of things.

    First: that's only one point I made in the thread, even if proved wrong, it doesn't end the discussion.

    Second: the source you pulled is a fan site. It is written by fans and I personally never use when trying to make an argurment. It is a fan based site, not cannon.

    Third: If they are referring to this



    Then Tsunade could have meant a variety of things. I do know, that she didn't say Jutsu.

    Fourth: Kushina saying she wasn't good at ninjutsu only strengthens my point, no? She was brought over as a kid and put in the academy. Her failure at ninjutsu just shows she was not capable of it. How was she to know her clan was never meant to use ninjutsu?

    Thank you for the post, you may be right, but I don't think your evidence is good enough to disprove my theory.

    Well that can go either way bro...as there are more than one versions of manga tranlations...when I read it..I specifically remember her sayin "ninjutsu style". And her stating she wasn't any good at ninjutsu is not solid proof of her "not being able to"..let's not forget that naruto isn't good at ninjutsu either as he is forced to use clones for a jutsu that doesn't even involve hand signs and sage mode is not a ninjutsu so that's out....what's left?? Nothing..he is half namikaze and half uzumaki but just like his mother is not very good at ninjutsu..something he inherited from her..

    Edit. Ps...I didn't mean to come off as an ass when I said end of dicussion ...I meant about the uzumakis. Not being able to use ninjutsu....other than that the thread was good.. rep
     
         
    Last edited by Takeshi Uzumaki; 11-25-2012 at 07:55 AM.

  6. #56
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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    An interesting idea, but it fails on a few levels.
    The uzumaki are decendants of the senju, senju being decended from SO6P.
    The guy had rinnegan befor he beat the tentails, or are you implying he beat it with fisticuffs?
    The uzumaki have more that fuinjutsu(haha fancy japanese name, but will you beat me now)
    The uzumaki can use ninjutsu.
    The uzumaki are not the only ones with fuinjustu(FJN)
    Everything else you said.
     
         

  7. #57
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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowthulhu45 View Post
    An interesting idea, but it fails on a few levels.
    The uzumaki are decendants of the senju, senju being decended from SO6P.
    The guy had rinnegan befor he beat the tentails, or are you implying he beat it with fisticuffs?
    The uzumaki have more that fuinjutsu(haha fancy japanese name, but will you beat me now)
    The uzumaki can use ninjutsu.
    The uzumaki are not the only ones with fuinjustu(FJN)
    Everything else you said.
    1. It never states that. Only that they are distant relatives, which helps my point.
    2. It never shows him with the Rinnengan before his battle with the Juubi. Look at my "Question" under point one.
    3. I explain how he won in the thread. He sealed it though remember? What clan was hailed as having the greatest seals.
    4. Show ONE Uzumaki using a ninjutsu, just one, dont care what the jutsu is.
     
         

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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by SageMode 23 View Post
    Well that can go either way bro...as there are more than one versions of manga tranlations...when I read it..I specifically remember her sayin "ninjutsu style". And her stating she wasn't any good at ninjutsu is not solid proof of her "not being able to"..let's not forget that naruto isn't good at ninjutsu either as he is forced to use clones for a jutsu that doesn't even involve hand signs and sage mode is not a ninjutsu so that's out....what's left?? Nothing..he is half namikaze and half uzumaki but just like his mother is not very good at ninjutsu..something he inherited from her..

    Edit. Ps...I didn't mean to come off as an ass when I said end of dicussion ...I meant about the uzumakis. Not being able to use ninjutsu....other than that the thread was good.. rep
    No, I appreciate the insight. I dont think you were being an ass. I was hoping some one would come at me with manga evidence and you have at least done that. However, if that is the only leg to stand on I have to say it isn't strong enough. If you are implying Kushina could do multiple shadow clones, rasengan, sage mode and any other "technique", "jutsu" Naruto can do, I believe you are mistaken. I think she meant the way he goes about things. There is no evidence to support otherwise.

    Edit: While yes, her stating that she is not good at it is not solid proof I believe the fact that we have never seen any Uzumaki perform any kind of ninjutsu (including her) is solid proof.
     
         
    Last edited by Tebows Youth Group; 11-25-2012 at 08:05 AM.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Sexy Steel's Avatar
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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebows Youth Group View Post
    You didn't read the thread?

    If you did the answer is in there I promise...
    You promoted the idea that so6p was initially uzumaki therefore he could not use ninjutsu

    But you seem to forget that the so6p is not just uzumaki, he is also senju, those who can use ninjutsu of the highest level, the sage is skilled in using sealing techniques but so are the senju, the uzumaki are somewhat related to the so6p through the senju's which furthers adds to the fact the he is skilled in sealing techs but doesn't diminish his ability to use ninjutsu.

    Now the picture you post is most likely the sage controlling the jubbi with his rennigan,
    Gedo mazou is controlled by the rennigan(note:gedo mazou is the shell of the juubi) if a watered down rennigan of madara Is capable of controlling the shell of the Jubbi what stops the sage's rennigan from controlling the real thing ?
     
         
    Last edited by Sexy Steel; 11-25-2012 at 08:13 AM.

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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebows Youth Group View Post
    No, I appreciate the insight. I dont think you were being an ass. I was hoping some one would come at me with manga evidence and you have at least done that. However, if that is the only leg to stand on I have to say it isn't strong enough. If you are implying Kushina could do multiple shadow clones, rasengan, sage mode and any other "technique", "jutsu" Naruto can do, I believe you are mistaken. I think she meant the way he goes about things. There is no evidence to support otherwise.
    Sage mode and rasengans.? No.. I was just stating the things that naruto has that ARE NOT ninjutsu since he isn't proficient in that area just like his mother
    She wasn't "any good" at ninjutsu she said that meaning she had to had tried and found herself to be lacking in skill..but at the end of the day..both our opinions r just that...opinions..because only kishi knows...I too made a point that the sage was an uzumaki so I agree with most of ur thread...I was also going to write a fanfic about it. But anyway back to the main topic...its all up for debate..neither one of us has "solid" proof..we have a few pages and opinions...everything is up for debate...I will say this...I respect ur intelligence and way of thinking...its a sigh of relief to debate with someone intelligent on this site...lol
     
         

  11. #61
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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by Sexy Steel View Post
    You promoted the idea that so6p was initially uzumaki therefore he could not use ninjutsu

    But you seem to forget that the so6p is not just uzumaki, he is also senju, those who can use ninjutsu if the highest level, the sage is skilled in using sealing techniques but so are the senju, the uzumaki are somewhat related to the so6p through the senju's which furthers adds to the fact the he is skilled in sealing techs but doesn't diminish his ability to use ninjutsu.

    Now the picture you post is most likely the sage controlling the jubbi with his rennigan,
    Gedo mazou is controlled by the rennigan(note:gedo mazou is the shell of the juubi) if a watered down rennigan of madara Is capable of controlling the shell of the Jubbi what stops the sage's rennigan from controlling the real thing ?
    Im sorry but that is just not true. The most recent chapter shows the Juubi's eye, and it is the Rinnengan with the Sharingan Tomae's inside. Read "Question" in point 1. You can no longer make the argument that the Juubi's eye is not the Rinnengan because we see now that it was not a projection of the Sage's eye, but its own eyes. We know this to be true, and since it is fact, that would mean that those who believe the Sage had the Rinnengan before he faught the Juubi, believe that both he AND the Juubi both had Rinnengan when they faught. Im sorry that just seems way more unlikely to me.

    Edit: Also, again the Uzumaki and Senju are distant relatives, that is all we know. And to your other point. Okay let's say I am wrong. What ninjutsu would you say he used against the Juubi? Just for fun throw some out. Let me rephrase that. Given the information we have about him and that fight (which I know isnt much) what do you think he used? We know he used is "special items" we see him holding them in the fight. Also, we know he used a sealing tech. So just give me an idea of how you think it happened.
     
         
    Last edited by Tebows Youth Group; 11-25-2012 at 08:18 AM.

  12. #62
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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebows Youth Group View Post
    Im sorry but that is just not true. The most recent chapter shows the Juubi's eye, and it is the Rinnengan with the Sharingan Tomae's inside. Read "Question" in point 1. You can no longer make the argument that the Juubi's eye is not the Rinnengan because we see now that it was not a projection of the Sage's eye, but its own eyes. We know this to be true, and since it is fact, that would mean that those who believe the Sage had the Rinnengan before he faught the Juubi, believe that both he AND the Juubi both had Rinnengan when they faught. Im sorry that just seems way more unlikely to me.

    Here is a scenario if you took the 9 tails away from naruto and he had a child, would the child posses the healing powers if kurama ?

    Another one, why hasn't the jubbi attacked madara and obito but it attacks naruto and company ?

    What I am saying should be clear by now, tobi/madara are in control of the jubbi, (note:the jubbi isn't fully revived)

    How does madara plan on being the host without any of the sealing weapons you talked about?

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/610/8
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/610/12

    Madara's words suggest that he is controlling the Juno actions or am I missing something?


    Sry for typos I am typing on my phone
     
         

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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by Sexy Steel View Post
    Here is a scenario if you took the 9 tails away from naruto and he had a child, would the child posses the healing powers if kurama ?

    Another one, why hasn't the jubbi attacked madara and obito but it attacks naruto and company ?

    What I am saying should be clear by now, tobi/madara are in control of the jubbi, (note:the jubbi isn't fully revived)

    How does madara plan on being the host without any of the sealing weapons you talked about?

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/610/8
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/610/12

    Madara's words suggest that he is controlling the Juno actions or am I missing something?


    Sry for typos I am typing on my phone
    Right, but it seems like the pages you posted go against your point. We have seen Madara and Obito control the nine tails before with their eyes, it never required them to be on top of the Kyuubi and attached via some weird thing that comes out of the Juubi. Isn't it obvious how they are controlling them? That thing attached to their neck, not their eyes. That is the Juubi's eye, there really is no other way around it.
     
         

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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by iSpeak the Truth View Post
    Look, I hate it when people intentionally deny solid evidence by simply making shit up, cuz they'd rather stay in denial. Sorry if I seemed pushy...
    Nah they are just envy lol
     
         

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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by SageMode 23 View Post
    Sage mode and rasengans.? No.. I was just stating the things that naruto has that ARE NOT ninjutsu since he isn't proficient in that area just like his mother
    She wasn't "any good" at ninjutsu she said that meaning she had to had tried and found herself to be lacking in skill..but at the end of the day..both our opinions r just that...opinions..because only kishi knows...I too made a point that the sage was an uzumaki so I agree with most of ur thread...I was also going to write a fanfic about it. But anyway back to the main topic...its all up for debate..neither one of us has "solid" proof..we have a few pages and opinions...everything is up for debate...I will say this...I respect ur intelligence and way of thinking...its a sigh of relief to debate with someone intelligent on this site...lol
    I do vaguely remember her saying that, but if you could find the page so I could look at it, it would be appreciated. I believe it was around the time Naruto faught the Kyuubi. But, that statement is weak evidence at best, youre right in that we can't really know what she meant.
     
         

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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Very good theory ill be looking forward to it in the future. Is this original? If yes then verygood. But someday someone will copy this work lol
     
         

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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodSeed View Post
    Very good theory ill be looking forward to it in the future. Is this original? If yes then verygood. But someday someone will copy this work lol
    Haha, if you are asking if I got the idea from any other threads the answer is no, is this theory out there somewhere though? I guess it's possible.


    If that happens, I hope you are there to refer them back to this thread!
     
         

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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebows Youth Group View Post
    Haha, if you are asking if I got the idea from any other threads the answer is no, is this theory out there somewhere though? I guess it's possible.


    If that happens, I hope you are there to refer them back to this thread!
    Very nice theory. This thing didnt ever crossed my mind and your theory got a posibility that its true
     
         

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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebows Youth Group View Post
    Right, but it seems like the pages you posted go against your point. We have seen Madara and Obito control the nine tails before with their eyes, it never required them to be on top of the Kyuubi and attached via some weird thing that comes out of the Juubi. Isn't it obvious how they are controlling them? That thing attached to their neck, not their eyes. That is the Juubi's eye, there really is no other way around it.
    It has been stated that tailed beasts ( The 10 tails is a tailed beast) are slaves to those with the ems,
    The fact that they stand on it shows no form of control
    Whe naruto first summoned gamabutu he was on his head
    During the big sanin clash, each Sanin was on their respective summon

    Those^ event even showed how summmons have a mind of their own, manda threaten oro and demanded food from him, gamabuta despised naruto, the fact that they are on the summon displays no control

    But in the case of madara and tobi, the jubbi is being controlled with dojutsu which reflects in the eyes of the jubbi

    Why would they stand on tre ground where a massive battle between tbb's is going on where as they could stay clear of stre damage while on top of the juubi.

    Ms was used to control the kyubii by obito and madara, and the sharingan could be seen in the eyes if the kyubii, does that mean that the kyubi has the sharingan ? I think not
     
         
    Last edited by Sexy Steel; 11-25-2012 at 09:29 AM.

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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAwesomeOne View Post
    The Sage obviously had Rinnegan before the Juubi. How else would he have defeat the Juubi?
    Legendary Sage Mode
     
         

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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    The ninetails recognised naruto's seal, but I was totally convinced when u mentioned the white hair. ***** Bravo

    MODS SHOULD AWARD THIS AS THE THEORY OF THE MONTH

    The children of jinchiruiki inherit the abilities of the beast. Maybe that's why the senju inherited the body and the uchiha inherited the eyes. It could help in the thread
     
         
    Last edited by kellzfresh; 11-25-2012 at 10:16 AM.

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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebows Youth Group View Post
    This is going to be a detailed analysis of the SO6P and why first of all he was an Uzumaki, didn't possess the Rinnegan and couldnt use ninjutsu until after he beat the Juubi. I believe I have provided enough evidence to support these theories and there are virtually no holes. If I thought there were any holes, I would not have made the thread.

    Let's begin....

    Point Number 1-SO6P....The Uzumaki


    In order to fully understand the point I am going to try to make, I first have to explain what I think to be true of the Uzumaki clan. A PURE Uzumaki CANNOT use ninjutsu. How many Pure Uzumaki do we know so far....?

    Nagato


    Karin


    Kushina



    Hmm okay, lets see, lets see. What is similar about these three....?

    1. The Red hair. We know the Uzumaki all have red hair. Check.

    2. Their abilites.

    Let's look at Kushina and Karin first, because as you all know, Nagato had something that made him a bit different. Something odd about them right? They don't seem to be able to use regular ninjutsu. Karin has incredible healing powers and is the best sensor we have seen thus far. In fact, her life force is so unique that people can suck on her arm to heal themselves...

    Kushina is a tougher case to make because we have not really seen her in battle. But, from what we have seen, no ninjutsu. Only very powerful sealing techniques that she taught to Minato and like Karin, she has a very strong life force. Check

    3. They are the perfect hosts.

    Okay, got it. So, red hair. No ninjutsu. Strong life force. Sealing techniques. Perfect hosts.





    What I assume to be the two arguments..Please read before you make these arguments!

    Now the point many of you are going to try to make is, "Ohhh but Nagato could use ninjutsu!" Yessss this is true, but only strengthens my argument about the SO6P. I think there is a very strong chance that without the Rinnegan, Nagato would have been just like Karin and Kushina. Strong bodied with healing and sealing powers. Why think any different? He is all of a sudden the only Uzumaki that can use ninjustu...I dont think so. In fact, he is a perfect example of what I think the SO6P became AFTER he defeated the Juubi, but I will get into that later.


    "Oh, oh Naruto could use ninjutsu, he's an Uzumaki?!" Yes, but not a pure Uzumaki. His ninjutsu abilities come from his dad's side...sorry:shrug:




    "Okay, but so what? Uzumaki's cant use ninjutsu, big deal? That doesn't mean the SO6P couldn't."



    Oh well thank you, everyone who is not going to believe me at first, allow me to segway to my next point.




    Point 2- The Sage could not use Ninjustu and didnt possess the Rinnengan until AFTER the fight with the Juubi.




    As we know the Sage is the father of ninjutsu. So as far as we know, no one could use ninjutsu in his time. So the questions that arise...



    1. When in his life could he use ninjutsu?

    2. When did he "teach" everyone else?




    For the sake of my argument, let's assume you believe me in that the SO6P was an Uzumaki. And as I stated before, the Uzumaki can not use ninjutsu. That means there was a point in his life where something changed. It had to be something big...m? Could it possibly be?



    Now, there is a reason I showed that specific picture. This is because it is the ONLY picture of the Sage before he defeated the Juubi. Why is this important? Well his back is turned, and we cannot see his eyes. We know the Juubi's eye actually looks like that as we have seen in 610 so the argument that the Sage's eyes are projecting onto the Juubi is void now. So, to all the people who would like to make the argument that the Sage had rinnengan during this fight let me ask you this.


    My question:
    The Juubi obviously has the Rinnengan. So are you saying that it is more likely that both the Sage and the Juubi had the same eyes during this fight? Seems awfully coincidental. The Sage has the Rinnengan, and the Juubi just happens to have it too? Ehh, stick by that if you want. If you can find a picture of the sage BEFORE he faught the Juubi and he has Rinnengan I will say you are the greatest and admit you have a superior mind.


    So, it seems like common sense now that the Sage didn't have those eyes until after he became the 10 tails Jinchuuriki.

    All right, if he couldn't use ninjutsu how could he possibly defeat the Juubi? Well easy, go back in look at the picture. Notice anything? In his hands, you see it? That's right, the two objects. We all know the Sage possessed several very powerful objects. All of the objects the Silver n Gold brothers had, the sealing jar and we dont even know what that staff does he carries around. Something tells me it is by far the most powerful of the objects. What's so interesting about the objects? The all seemed to be based off sealing techniques. And who are the experts when it comes to sealing techniques, thats right....the Uzumaki.

    I know I havent quite answered the two questions I asked, but I am about too, when I tie this all together



    Now, I have laid the ground work. Time to do some convincing.


    Point 3- Tying this all together.


    Point one ---> Uzumaki's cannot use ninjutsu. SO6P was an Uzumaki

    Point two ----> Sage of Six Paths could not use ninjutsu, nor did he have Rinnengan until after he became 10 Tails Host.





    I am going to use Nagato as a point of reference for the SO6P for I believe he had everything the Sage had, besides the power of a Bijuu. It was shown Nagato had an affinity for all elements and could use the power of the Rinnegan through the six paths. We can all agree, these were powers granted by the Rinnegan for if Nagato didn't possess the Rinnengan, he could not use these abilities.


    Well, if the Rinnegan granted Nagato those powers, then would it not be safe to assume it granted the Sage those powers as well? And if, the Sage's eyes come from the Juubi, then can we not also assume the Sage had none of those powers until AFTER he beat the Juubi. One thing I think we can agree, whether you think the Sage had the Rinnengan or not, was that he did have these three things before the fight with the Juubi.

    1. The weapons, this is obviouss, they exist, he had them. And remember, they are based on sealing techniques.

    2. The powerful body- His body was able to handle being the Juubi's host.

    3. Powerful sealing techniques-He sealed the Juubi within himself. Sealed his body in the moon. A very interesting page comes to mind when I think of this point here....



    So whatever Naruto did to the Kyuubi and it looks like a very powerful sealing technique, the Sage did it too.
    What is interesting is how Naruto did it. He used the seal on his stomach to perform that seal on the Fox. We all know where that seal came from right? Yess, say it with me, Naruto's dad, who learned it from Naruto's mom, an Uzumaki. It is an Uzumaki seal, and the Sage of Six Paths knew how to use an Uzumaki seal.

    Look at the list of the Sage's techniques pre-juubi and look at the Uzumaki's abilites list I layed at earlier. They are nearly the same except, point number one for the Uzumaki's.....the red hair.

    The Uzumaki's

    1. The Red hair

    2. Powerful Bodies, Powerful Life Force

    3. Powerful Sealing techniques



    The Sage, pre-Juubi fight. This is what we know he had.

    1. His weapons

    2. Powerful Body

    3. Powerful Sealing Techniques


    Now this is cool, if some one can find me a picture of the pre juubi fight Sage that is not darkened then please present it and here's why. We know the Sage had white hair, or lighter hair I guess for we can never know till the manga is colored. But we know at least he had white hair towards the end of his life. The reason I believe he is always darkened when he is young is because yes, he had red hair. And his hair doesn't turn white until after he pulls the 10 tails from his body. Because what do we know about Uzumakis?



    When they stress their bodies their hair turns white. What would be more stressful on the body than pulling the 10 tails from you and splitting it into 9 beasts..?

    So to my earlier questions:

    1. When could the Sage use ninjutsu.

    Not until after he sealed the Juubi in himself and obtained the Rinnengan. Look at Nagato, when he got the Rinnengan he became an Uzumaki who could use a number of ninjutsu's, something we haven't seen from that clan.



    2. When did he "teach" everyone how to use ninjutsu.

    Simple, he didn't. It was not until after his fight with the Juubi that people could use chakra the way they do in present time. The Juubi IS chakra. When the Sage tamed it, from then on the power of NATURE itself could be harnessed by man.







    I realize this is a very long post and I know I am going to get a bunch of "didn't read"'s. Thats fine, if you dont think you can put your big boy pants on and read the whole thing just read point 3, it kind of summarizes. Refer back to points 1 and 2 if you arent getting it. Thank you to all who read it, I hope it makes sense and whether you agree or disagree I look forward to hearing your comments.
    This seems oddly, even suspiciously similar to a thread I made yesterday. You had many different, original and good points, however, so I'm not accusing you of anything. If I can figure something out, other people could just as easily. However, it IS a bit strange how closely the two threads were posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    The Sage and his genetics:

    The Sage was a Senju. His eyes, the Rinnegan, (and the Sharingan) share features with the Juubi's eye. Jinchuuriki are proven to attain certain traits from their contained being, such as Bee's ability to spit ink, and Kushina's crazy hair. So the possibility definitely exists for the Sage's fabled Rinnegan originating from his pet world-destroying demon.

    And the Sage's longevity genes wouldn't have come from the Juubi, if anything it'd be reduced. Jinchuuriki die young, and rampage-mode cuts down on life-expectancy and may even harm genetic material.

    On the other hand, the Juubi is stated to be the source of all chakra by Kurama:

    and this ties in neatly with the Sage being the source of all ninjutsu. Power and control.

    The great doujutsu, any of them, don't function well (or at all) without chakra, and wouldn't exactly be in the forefront of the gene pool.

    Long life and extreme vitality, however, would. Sage = Senju.
    As you may have gathered from this, I disagreed with the Sage being an Uzumaki, and I still do. Senju also have extreme vitality as well, and though they aren't as reknowed for their sealing abilities, they still HAVE some, as Tobirama proves with the creation of the Edo Tensei, Tsunade with her Forehead Seal, and Hashirama with the Contract Breaking Seal (that may be non-canon though) and the Scroll of Forbidden Seals.

    The Senju also, unlike the Uzumaki (as far as I can recall) are/were proficient at making powerful objects. Like the Shodaime's Necklace:


    As to the Sage being unable to use ninjutsu pre-Sealing, it's an interesting thought. However, as Kurama states, the Juubi is the source of all chakra, and as such people being ABLE to use ninjutsu had little to do with whether the Sage was a Jinchuuriki or not. He may have been the source of ninjutsu, but he didn't IMPLANT the ability to use ninjutsu into anyone, and I see no reason why people, even the Sage himself, couldn't use ninjutsu before he became a Jinchuuriki.

    Here's my thread if you wanted to see it:
    http://www.narutobase.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=279978
     
         
    Last edited by Piratefish; 11-25-2012 at 01:34 PM.

  23. #73
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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebows Youth Group View Post
    This is going to be a detailed analysis of the SO6P and why first of all he was an Uzumaki, didn't possess the Rinnegan and couldnt use ninjutsu until after he beat the Juubi. I believe I have provided enough evidence to support these theories and there are virtually no holes. If I thought there were any holes, I would not have made the thread.

    Let's begin....

    Point Number 1-SO6P....The Uzumaki


    In order to fully understand the point I am going to try to make, I first have to explain what I think to be true of the Uzumaki clan. A PURE Uzumaki CANNOT use ninjutsu. How many Pure Uzumaki do we know so far....?

    Nagato


    Karin


    Kushina



    Hmm okay, lets see, lets see. What is similar about these three....?

    1. The Red hair. We know the Uzumaki all have red hair. Check.

    2. Their abilites.

    Let's look at Kushina and Karin first, because as you all know, Nagato had something that made him a bit different. Something odd about them right? They don't seem to be able to use regular ninjutsu. Karin has incredible healing powers and is the best sensor we have seen thus far. In fact, her life force is so unique that people can suck on her arm to heal themselves...

    Kushina is a tougher case to make because we have not really seen her in battle. But, from what we have seen, no ninjutsu. Only very powerful sealing techniques that she taught to Minato and like Karin, she has a very strong life force. Check

    3. They are the perfect hosts.

    Okay, got it. So, red hair. No ninjutsu. Strong life force. Sealing techniques. Perfect hosts.





    What I assume to be the two arguments..Please read before you make these arguments!

    Now the point many of you are going to try to make is, "Ohhh but Nagato could use ninjutsu!" Yessss this is true, but only strengthens my argument about the SO6P. I think there is a very strong chance that without the Rinnegan, Nagato would have been just like Karin and Kushina. Strong bodied with healing and sealing powers. Why think any different? He is all of a sudden the only Uzumaki that can use ninjustu...I dont think so. In fact, he is a perfect example of what I think the SO6P became AFTER he defeated the Juubi, but I will get into that later.


    "Oh, oh Naruto could use ninjutsu, he's an Uzumaki?!" Yes, but not a pure Uzumaki. His ninjutsu abilities come from his dad's side...sorry:shrug:




    "Okay, but so what? Uzumaki's cant use ninjutsu, big deal? That doesn't mean the SO6P couldn't."



    Oh well thank you, everyone who is not going to believe me at first, allow me to segway to my next point.




    Point 2- The Sage could not use Ninjustu and didnt possess the Rinnengan until AFTER the fight with the Juubi.




    As we know the Sage is the father of ninjutsu. So as far as we know, no one could use ninjutsu in his time. So the questions that arise...



    1. When in his life could he use ninjutsu?

    2. When did he "teach" everyone else?




    For the sake of my argument, let's assume you believe me in that the SO6P was an Uzumaki. And as I stated before, the Uzumaki can not use ninjutsu. That means there was a point in his life where something changed. It had to be something big...m? Could it possibly be?



    Now, there is a reason I showed that specific picture. This is because it is the ONLY picture of the Sage before he defeated the Juubi. Why is this important? Well his back is turned, and we cannot see his eyes. We know the Juubi's eye actually looks like that as we have seen in 610 so the argument that the Sage's eyes are projecting onto the Juubi is void now. So, to all the people who would like to make the argument that the Sage had rinnengan during this fight let me ask you this.


    My question:
    The Juubi obviously has the Rinnengan. So are you saying that it is more likely that both the Sage and the Juubi had the same eyes during this fight? Seems awfully coincidental. The Sage has the Rinnengan, and the Juubi just happens to have it too? Ehh, stick by that if you want. If you can find a picture of the sage BEFORE he faught the Juubi and he has Rinnengan I will say you are the greatest and admit you have a superior mind.


    So, it seems like common sense now that the Sage didn't have those eyes until after he became the 10 tails Jinchuuriki.

    All right, if he couldn't use ninjutsu how could he possibly defeat the Juubi? Well easy, go back in look at the picture. Notice anything? In his hands, you see it? That's right, the two objects. We all know the Sage possessed several very powerful objects. All of the objects the Silver n Gold brothers had, the sealing jar and we dont even know what that staff does he carries around. Something tells me it is by far the most powerful of the objects. What's so interesting about the objects? The all seemed to be based off sealing techniques. And who are the experts when it comes to sealing techniques, thats right....the Uzumaki.

    I know I havent quite answered the two questions I asked, but I am about too, when I tie this all together



    Now, I have laid the ground work. Time to do some convincing.


    Point 3- Tying this all together.


    Point one ---> Uzumaki's cannot use ninjutsu. SO6P was an Uzumaki

    Point two ----> Sage of Six Paths could not use ninjutsu, nor did he have Rinnengan until after he became 10 Tails Host.





    I am going to use Nagato as a point of reference for the SO6P for I believe he had everything the Sage had, besides the power of a Bijuu. It was shown Nagato had an affinity for all elements and could use the power of the Rinnegan through the six paths. We can all agree, these were powers granted by the Rinnegan for if Nagato didn't possess the Rinnengan, he could not use these abilities.


    Well, if the Rinnegan granted Nagato those powers, then would it not be safe to assume it granted the Sage those powers as well? And if, the Sage's eyes come from the Juubi, then can we not also assume the Sage had none of those powers until AFTER he beat the Juubi. One thing I think we can agree, whether you think the Sage had the Rinnengan or not, was that he did have these three things before the fight with the Juubi.

    1. The weapons, this is obviouss, they exist, he had them. And remember, they are based on sealing techniques.

    2. The powerful body- His body was able to handle being the Juubi's host.

    3. Powerful sealing techniques-He sealed the Juubi within himself. Sealed his body in the moon. A very interesting page comes to mind when I think of this point here....



    So whatever Naruto did to the Kyuubi and it looks like a very powerful sealing technique, the Sage did it too.
    What is interesting is how Naruto did it. He used the seal on his stomach to perform that seal on the Fox. We all know where that seal came from right? Yess, say it with me, Naruto's dad, who learned it from Naruto's mom, an Uzumaki. It is an Uzumaki seal, and the Sage of Six Paths knew how to use an Uzumaki seal.

    Look at the list of the Sage's techniques pre-juubi and look at the Uzumaki's abilites list I layed at earlier. They are nearly the same except, point number one for the Uzumaki's.....the red hair.

    The Uzumaki's

    1. The Red hair

    2. Powerful Bodies, Powerful Life Force

    3. Powerful Sealing techniques



    The Sage, pre-Juubi fight. This is what we know he had.

    1. His weapons

    2. Powerful Body

    3. Powerful Sealing Techniques


    Now this is cool, if some one can find me a picture of the pre juubi fight Sage that is not darkened then please present it and here's why. We know the Sage had white hair, or lighter hair I guess for we can never know till the manga is colored. But we know at least he had white hair towards the end of his life. The reason I believe he is always darkened when he is young is because yes, he had red hair. And his hair doesn't turn white until after he pulls the 10 tails from his body. Because what do we know about Uzumakis?



    When they stress their bodies their hair turns white. What would be more stressful on the body than pulling the 10 tails from you and splitting it into 9 beasts..?

    So to my earlier questions:

    1. When could the Sage use ninjutsu.

    Not until after he sealed the Juubi in himself and obtained the Rinnengan. Look at Nagato, when he got the Rinnengan he became an Uzumaki who could use a number of ninjutsu's, something we haven't seen from that clan.



    2. When did he "teach" everyone how to use ninjutsu.

    Simple, he didn't. It was not until after his fight with the Juubi that people could use chakra the way they do in present time. The Juubi IS chakra. When the Sage tamed it, from then on the power of NATURE itself could be harnessed by man.







    I realize this is a very long post and I know I am going to get a bunch of "didn't read"'s. Thats fine, if you dont think you can put your big boy pants on and read the whole thing just read point 3, it kind of summarizes. Refer back to points 1 and 2 if you arent getting it. Thank you to all who read it, I hope it makes sense and whether you agree or disagree I look forward to hearing your comments.
    im 100 % sure that sage isnt a uzumaki

    u r jus a naruto fam who wants to see a so6p in him
     
         

  24. #74
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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    U can defeat juubi by using fuinjutsu n tools alone
     
         

  25. #75
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    Re: The End All Debate on the SO6P

    My theory is that so6p left some scrolls that the uzumaki stole and learned fuinjutsu from . and the sage had reningan from start perfect eyes + perfect body . And when the jubbi was sealed in him his reningan had the infuence of 10 tails n he passed on sharingan to future gen
     
         

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