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    [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    Source:-http://forum.onemanga.com/showthread.php?t=40065

    Please bear with me this is too long...

    This is a theory revolving around the EMS and Itachi. Though a large part of the secret of the EMS remains unknown, I will offer a possible explanation for a few things and how it ties in with Itachi.

    The theory is split into two parts, as you'll see. Each can stand on its own, but also work together. It's easy to show how the first part can work without the second (just ignore the rest ), but it's a bit more difficult to show that the second can work without the first. On the other hand, you'll see that the first part doesn't stand on very firm ground, even if it does explain some things nicely. At one point I decided to cut the first part out and only post the second part. However I changed my mind and decided to make a compromise. Since I still have both versions, I decided to post both. That way I can show that even without the first one, the second one still works out. I am still on the fence for the first one, but at the very least it's an interesting idea.

    First Version:-

    To begin with, let's take a look at the variations of the Mangekyou Sharingan.

    As you can see, each of them has its own shape. But all of them share something. They all have a dot in the center. Notice also that there are two colors for the dots: red and black. The regular Sharingan has a black dot, but some of these have a red one. Let's also take a look at exactly who has which.

    Red: Kakashi, Izuna and Itachi
    Black: Madara and Sasuke

    It is interesting that it's Madara and Sasuke who have the black one. Madara is considered an immortal and Sasuke has been the interest of Orochimaru, Madara and Itachi. They saw in him a lot of talent, but it's possible they also saw something else which I will explain further later. In any case, Madara and Sasuke are special somehow.

    Part 1 - Eternal Light

    We know that the MS causes blindness eventually.

    We also know that Madara cured this by taking his brother's eyes.

    The question you have to ask yourself is: if the MS caused blindness, then how did taking another MS which causes blindness suddenly fix things? It doesn't really make much sense. And how did Madara know that taking his brother's eyes would fix things? At best he could have hoped that his brother's eyes would last for some time but eventually wear out as well. It's possible he realized something about the MS. Where Madara had the black dot, Izuna had the red one. They must have talked about their vision. And then they realized something: where one of them was near-sighted, the other was far-sighted. It didn't take a genius to connect this with the dots. Madara must have thought of the exchange at that point. Still, he didn't want to pluck his brother's eyes, so he tried everything he could think of, but ultimately there was no other choice.

    This was a possible explanation for why the exchange fixed things. But it opens some new questions, which I will discuss in part 2.

    Part 2 - Itachi's counter-plan

    1) Introduction

    Let's start with Itachi's intentions for Sasuke, as told by Madara.

    I have good reason to believe Madara is lying here (wouldn't be the first time), or at least not speaking the entire truth. He knows a good deal about Itachi's plan, as I will demonstrate, but he thinks Itachi didn't know that. I will show proof that Itachi was well aware that Madara knew about his plan, just not all of it.

    2) Mangekyou Sharingan - Recap

    We know that Itachi had planned for Sasuke to get MS, so it's reasonable to assume he wanted him to get EMS as well. I believe it's all part of Itachi's plan to eliminate Madara, a plan that goes back to the Uchiha massacre.

    We know that the EMS can only be created between clansmen. (thanks to Gottheim for this next part)

    Naruto 386 page 09 | One Manga (middle left panel)

    But there's also this.

    And simply gaining another's eyes didn't equate to gaining this power. Many sacrifices piled up over the course of our clan's history... now you know why.
    According to the 3rd databook:
    The tighter the blood ties are [between "donor" and] receiver, the better it is for compatibility. Siblings, for example.
    We know that only a select few Uchiha get the Sharingan. (middle right panel)

    The MS is even more rare, only a few people ever achieved it. (top right)

    By the way, I find it funny Sasuke didn't ask about the conditions. Such an obvious question. Oh well.

    In any case, this is somewhat at odds with the above statement that many sacrifices piled up, but since it's a long time, I guess both could be true. There are only a few people with the MS at any given time, but over a long period of time it still amounts to "many".

    As I said before, it is interesting that Sasuke and Madara had the black-dotted one, and that both Itachi and Madara were so bent on Sasuke. It's possible that the black one appeared less often than the red one. Probably only in Madara and Sasuke. The only reinforcement I can offer for this aside from the above is this.

    Eyes with such power and chakra even more sinister than my own... not at all unlike what I once saw in a certain Uchiha Madara...
    The way the Kyuubi put the above makes Sasuke sound special again.

    I think Itachi wanted to stop Madara, but even with MS, he knew he would be no match for him. He needed an EMS. But how did he know that Sasuke would get the black dotted MS? I believe that the color is determined by the chakra. More specifically yin-yang. Here I am assuming that it works in a similar fashion to the nature elements. In this case then, Sasuke and Madara lean toward yin, and the rest yang. But how exactly did Itachi know which type Sasuke is, before he obtained it? Remember that the Sharingan can see chakra. So Itachi saw that Sasuke's chakra type leaned toward yin. So did Madara, and I think that the Kyuubi was referring to that as well. We know next to nothing about yin-yang currently, but I am sure it will play an important role. Let's go back to when it was mentioned for the first time. Read the whole page. Note that the bottom panel is completely unnecessary. It could have been left out with no impact whatsoever. In fact, it looks more like it was tacked on intentionally.

    Next, is it possible for the yin type to appear less often than yang? Yes, because the wind type is rare. (bottom left)

    To reinforce the yin/yang stuff. You mentioned in your theory that Kyuubi didn't refer to Izuna, he only talked about Madara.

    1. Madara was the leader of the clan when him and Izuna were pretty much equals.
    2. It's said that Kyuubi was Madara's pet, not Izuna's.

    It's possible that Madara only started controlling Kyuubi after he gained PMS. Or...

    It's possible that only black-dotted Mangekyou's, or Uchiha with black/yin chakra can control Kyuubi. It's possible that even Itachi wouldn't have been able to do what Sasuke did, at Orochimaru's lair, to Kyuubi.
    Also, Itachi knew that Sasuke hadn't yet obtained the MS just before their fight. (credits go to Benzini again) He could see Sasuke didn't have MS, despite Sasuke not telling him first.

    Again, not much to go on for this, but I decided not to ignore it.

    Now I'll get to Itachi's counter-plan. There are a lot of theories concerning Madara, Sasuke and Itachi, all entirely possible. The story I am about to present may collide with them a little, but I think it can still fit in with them in the most important parts.

    3) Itachi's childhood

    Let's start from Itachi's childhood. Read this. Itachi was shaped to want peace early on in his life. This is important, because it explains his character and the kind of actions he would take later on. It also goes well with the theory that Itachi didn't massacre his clan ("Itachi: Drenched in Blood or Tears?").

    The next important moment in Itachi's life was the Kyuubi's attack, resulting in the Uchiha plotting a coup d'etat. I have another idea here, for which I have no proof whatsoever. It doesn't affect the theory, but it could serve as a nice explanation of some events later on. We know that Madara was behind the Kyuubi's attack and we also know that Minato saw him, but since he was masked, he didn't know who it was. It's possible Itachi saw him as well. And since Madara was using the MS, it's also possible that Itachi saw the eye. He could also have seen it on Kyuubi. We have seen that when Sasuke used genjutsu on Manda, its eye had a Sharingan print. At the time he didn't know it was Madara, and he was afraid that if he told anyone, the Uchiha would be blamed and he didn't want that, because it would create tensions.

    Unfortunately, it happened anyway.

    4) The coup and the massacre

    The Uchiha started planning the coup. And soon Itachi was neck deep in it as we all know, serving as a spy. But being a peaceful man, he turned his back on the Uchiha. I suspect that this would be the moment when he figured out what the eyes were and more importantly who they belonged to. He was in the clan's secret meeting place after all, and he later told Sasuke to go there to find out about MS. But why didn't he tell anyone? Honestly, who would believe him that Madara is alive? "Everyone" knew that Shodaime killed him in VotE. Even if he convinced the Uchiha, the Elders wouldn't believe him and that would have jeopardized his position. If Madara and Danzo were connected, there was also that problem, so he couldn't tell the Elders. Regardless, he was hoping that things could be solved peacefully with the Sandaime in charge.
    And then something else happened. Shisui was killed. But Itachi denied it.

    It is not me who has killed Shisui... but for the words I have spoken I am deeply sorry.
    Taking into account his personality, it could very well be true. But look at the sentence again. The way it is formed, sounds like Shisui was killed (as opposed to a suicide), but not by Itachi. Then who? Maybe it was Madara. He may have found out about the coup, either because Itachi sought him out after finding out he was still alive or through Danzo or some other means. Then Madara blackmailed Itachi. He wanted revenge on the Uchiha and if Itachi wouldn't agree to it, Madara would start killing off those closest to him. And Itachi would get the blame, because he was a double agent. The Uchiha already didn't trust him and the Elders were probably careful of a trap as well. After all, Itachi may just be pretending to work for them, but is actually working for the Uchiha. Such is the life of a double-agent.
    Now he was truly in hell. He may not have known the extent of Madara's power so he refused at first. And Shisui died because of it. So because of the blackmail and the elders pressing on, he and the 3rd were eventually forced to let it go through.


    But I'll just highlight a couple points just so you know
    1- Shisui may have been killed a reason other than just to get at Itachi. Remember, Shisui was supposed to be tailing Itachi. Madara may have killed Shisui because he discovered that he was alive. Madara may have also killed Shisui so that Itachi could gain his Mangekyou. Both cases, Itachi was against.

    2- The reasons Itachi didn't tell anyone about Madara could be many. It could be that Itachi was happy being trained by Madara for some time. It could be that Madara threatened to destroy Konoha if Itachi exposed him. It could be that no one would believe him, as you said.
    By now Itachi had to have realized how dangerous Madara really was. He needed to eliminate him. But he wasn't strong enough, not even with the MS. But Sasuke was the yin type and that meant they could create the EMS. So he was spared. It's possible Itachi decided to spare him. Or if he didn't kill anyone (according to the "Itachi: Drenched in Blood or Tears" theory), he planned it so that Sasuke would be in school when it happened. And on top of that Sasuke was late.

    The bottom line is, Sasuke had to live. At the same time, he ensured that Sasuke had a goal that would eventually push him to getting the MS.

    I also doubt there was any real debate as to who would be using the EMS - him or Sasuke. Again I have two possible answers, not even mutually exclusive:

    1) Peaceful as he was, he didn't have the heart to take Sasuke's eyes, so instead he decided to let Sasuke have them.
    2) He couldn't obtain the EMS himself. Again, Madara, Itachi and Kyuubi all imply Sasuke is special in some way, so I was thinking that the EMS may only work on black dotted users. Maybe if Itachi had gotten it, something else would have been created, either a different technique or a different kind of EMS. Or maybe the EMS simply wouldn't have happened.

    This is the beginning of his plan. The only question that remained was would Sasuke obtain the MS by the time they fought? I think Itachi knew it wouldn't happen, because he knew Sasuke's character.
    This is reinforced by the manga itself later on:

    Naruto 343 page 02 | One Manga
    Naruto 343 page 03 | One Manga

    But even if Sasuke didn't get the MS Itachi already had a backup plan. Or perhaps it's better to say that it didn't really matter to him, because he would die by Sasuke's hand anyway, so he would get MS.

    5) In Akatsuki - Itachi's plan against Madara's

    Being exiled from the village, he joined Akatsuki to keep an eye on it and Madara. This gave him enough time to plan out exactly how he would get to Madara. He was also a no-brainer because of his MS. Most importantly, it made him the perfect choice to capture the Kyuubi, so his enlistment was ensured. We know that Itachi used this to warn Konoha about Akatsuki:

    Naruto 401 page 06 | One Manga
    Naruto 401 page 07 | One Manga

    Death "prevented" him from going after Naruto, so Pain went instead. In fact, it's pretty obvious to me that Itachi was avoiding capturing Kyuubi, as evidenced here. (read pages 6 and 7 as well) He needed Naruto, as you'll find out later.

    This brings us to the next question: what about Madara? I believe Madara also knew about Sasuke. It's possible he knew before the massacre, and it's also possible he heard soon after that and took interest in him then. In any case he ended up knowing what Itachi wanted to achieve. So why didn't he kill Sasuke and thus prevented something that is obviously very powerful? Well the truth is it's still not clear. But obviously, he wants Sasuke. Either because he thinks another EMS user on his side would be a great ally, or because there is something else, too.
    But why did he let Itachi join Akatsuki? First of all he was good for capturing the Kyuubi, and secondly to keep an eye on him through Kisame. ("Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer" -- Sun-Tzu) This is taken from "The Uchiha Madara Story", not my own idea. At the same time the MS would cause Itachi's death eventually. It didn't even matter if Madara knew that Itachi wouldn't get Naruto, it was still a good excuse for Itachi to be in Akatsuki and for Madara to keep him under surveillance. As I said above, Madara wants Sasuke to get the EMS, so he needs Itachi alive until Sasuke gets his MS. Itachi dying in battle against Sasuke works out perfectly for him.

    Itachi must have known that Madara is keeping him under check through Kisame, so he knew he had to plan out every detail carefully if he wanted to stop Madara. He also had to deceive Madara in order to mask his plan. And he had a lot of time to do it. I'll elaborate on how he achieved this further below. The point is that every part of Itachi's plan was well thought out, and some of it came together before his fight with Sasuke. Probably quite a bit before.

    6) The moment draws near!

    Fast forward to after the time-skip. Things are coming together. Akatsuki is starting to capture the Bijuu. Itachi's time is short, because as soon as the Bijuu are captured, it's game over. But Orochimaru's time is close, too. I believe Itachi knew Sasuke would eventually betray Orochimaru, so he knew the moment of his own death would happen soon.

    Soon enough Orochimaru is dead, and Itachi finds out with the rest of Akatsuki. Pain suggests Sasuke is likely after Itachi and Kisame. Now it's time for Itachi to put the plan into motion. Deidara decides to go after Naruto or Sasuke (ended up being Sasuke). Serves as a nice delay for Itachi. He knew Sasuke would beat Deidara anyway.
    Naturally, Deidara dies. Supposedly, so does Sasuke.

    Naruto 363 page 07 | One Manga
    Naruto 363 page 08 | One Manga


    But Itachi knows Sasuke is alive.


    How did Itachi know that Deidara would die? He knew that Sasuke was strong enough to beat him, sure. But don't forget who was with Deidara. In the worst case, Madara would have done something, because he needed the EMS. It's not like anyone would know he killed Deidara. Except Zetsu, who didn't seem to know that Tobi was Madara at that point. But I doubt Zetsu cared enough anyway. (and he found out before Sasuke's fight with Itachi anyway) Anyway, Itachi knew Madara was with Deidara, so he knew that Sasuke would survive, one way or another.

    Let's get back to Madara. He had a chance to observe Sasuke in the battle against Deidara, and was satisfied with what he had seen. Then he reported to Pain and told him to capture the Kyuubi, because he knew what was coming. This is later confirmed - Madara predicted that Itachi would die. Madara had Zetsu following Sasuke (as shown above). Now there was just one more problem in his way. The Konoha squad following Sasuke. Madara goes to stall them.


    Continued.......
     
         
    Last edited by Orion; 08-19-2009 at 06:26 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    Continued.......


    7) The plan

    Back to Itachi again. Now I will finally get to the core of his plan. He had to inform Sasuke about Madara and tell him how to use the EMS. Itachi knew he would die by Sasuke's hand. But then he can't tell him the truth about Madara, the massacre and everything else. So how does he make sure Sasuke finds out?

    This is how:

    He had to be alone, to prevent Madara from finding out what he was about to do. Madara was elsewhere preparing to stall Konoha and Zetsu was following Sasuke. Now all that was left was to get rid of Kisame. He sent Kisame to welcome Sasuke and the rest of Hebi. Next, he created two Kage-Bunshins. One for Sasuke:

    Naruto 367 page 14 | One Manga
    Naruto 367 page 15 | One Manga

    And one for Naruto. Naruto stumbles upon Itachi by sheer coincidence. Or at least that's what he thinks. Itachi gives him the talk (read the following pages) and gives him The Gift. (read from the start of the chapter for the full story)

    I believe this is how Itachi plans to tell Sasuke about Madara. He intends to do something very similar to what Minato just did with Naruto. This works out both if Madara wins Sasuke over and if he doesn't (in which case he'd return to Konoha). I think this is the most important part of Itachi's Gift. It's likely it wasn't the only thing. And here Itachi dispels the shadow clone, practically proving that he sought Naruto out (bottom left)

    I'll skip Sasuke vs. Itachi, because I don't think there's anything there you don't already know. Itachi transfers his techniques, plants Amaterasu and dies. But I believe the Amaterasu served another purpose. Itachi didn't know exactly what Madara knew. He had to take into account the possibility that Madara would predict Itachi trying to tell Sasuke the truth. I think Itachi knew the Amaterasu wouldn't work, but it also served as a perfect cover up for the gift to Naruto. There is one problem though. What if Sasuke doesn't meet Madara, and instead meets Kakashi first? We know that the Amaterasu was set up to react to the Sharingan, so this was a bit dangerous. And this is what also reinforces the yin-yang theory. Kakashi's MS was yang (red), but Madara's was yin (black), so there was no problem.

    As it turns out, Madara didn't even expect the Amaterasu. This is even better for Itachi, because Madara will now be sure that this was how Itachi wanted to keep him away from Sasuke. Madara has failed to stop Sasuke from going to Konoha. And that's exactly what Itachi wants, because he wants him to meet Naruto.

    Naruto 397 page 09 | One Manga
    Naruto 397 page 10 | One Manga


    The Trapaterasu could have been to trick Madara, as you said.

    But consider this:

    Sasuke still didn't achieve Mangekyou until after Madara told him the story. Itachi may have known that Madara would influence Sasuke to achieve Mangekyou. He needs a Mangekyou Sasuke for his goals (whatever they are).

    That Trap-aterasu may have also been used to get a hard-headed Sasuke to listen. Sasuke had just killed his brother, and now he is about to find out information that the brother tried to keep from him. He would definitely want to know.

    By listening to Madara's story about Itachi, Sasuke was manipulated into achieving Mangekyou.

    Itachi knew Sasuke would be manipulated, and he also knew it was necessary. He just needed someone to undo the manipulation after the deed had already been done; that "deed" being Sasuke's Mangekyou activating so that he could later achieve PMS and defeat Madara.

    So...

    Trap-Aterasu was to trick Madara, and basically to trick Sasuke into listening to Madara.
    8) Conclusion

    He he, maybe Itachi didn't fail after all. This ends the story about Itachi and EMS.


    Second Version

    1) Introduction

    Let's start with Itachi's intentions for Sasuke, as told by Madara. I have good reason to believe Madara is lying here (wouldn't be the first time), or at least not speaking the entire truth. He knows a good deal about Itachi's plan, as I will demonstrate, but he thinks Itachi didn't know that. I will show proof that Itachi was well aware that Madara knew about his plan, just not all of it.

    2) Mangekyou Sharingan - Recap

    We know that Itachi had planned for Sasuke to get MS, so it's reasonable to assume he wanted him to get EMS as well. I believe it's all part of Itachi's plan to put an end to Madara, a plan that goes back to the Uchiha massacre.

    We know that the EMS can only be created between clansmen. (thanks to Gottheim for this next part)

    Naruto 386 page 09 | One Manga (middle left panel)

    But there's also this.

    And simply gaining another's eyes didn't equate to gaining this power. Many sacrifices piled up over the course of our clan's history... now you know why.
    According to the 3rd databook:
    The tighter the blood ties are [between "donor" and] receiver, the better it is for compatibility. Siblings, for example.
    So Itachi and Sasuke would have made a very good pair, one that would most likely succeed.

    We know that only a select few Uchiha get the Sharingan. (middle right panel)

    The MS is even more rare, only a few people ever achieved it. (top right)

    By the way, I find it funny Sasuke didn't ask about the conditions. Such an obvious question. Oh well.

    In any case, this is somewhat at odds with the above statement that many sacrifices piled up, but since it's a long time, I guess both could be true. There are only a few people with the MS at any given time, but over a long period of time it still amounts to "many".

    I think Itachi wanted to stop Madara, but even with MS, he knew he would be no match for him. He needed an EMS.


    Now I'll get to Itachi's counter-plan. There are a lot of theories concerning Madara, Sasuke and Itachi, all entirely possible. The story I am about to present may collide with them a little, but I think it can still fit in with them in the most important parts.

    3) Itachi's childhood


    Let's start from Itachi's childhood. Read this. So Itachi was shaped to want peace early on in his life. This is important, because it explains his character and the kind of actions he would take later on. It also goes well with the theory that Itachi didn't massacre his clan ("Itachi: Drenched in Blood or tears?").

    The next important moment in Itachi's life was the Kyuubi's attack, resulting in the Uchiha plotting a coup d'etat. I have another idea here, for which I have no proof whatsoever. It doesn't affect the theory, but it could serve as a nice explanation of some events later on. We know that Madara was behind the Kyuubi's attack and we also know that Minato saw him, but since he was masked, Minato didn't know who it was. It's possible Itachi saw him as well. And since Madara was using the MS, it's also possible that Itachi saw the eye. He could also have seen it on Kyuubi. We have seen that when Sasuke used genjutsu on Manda, its eye had a Sharingan print. At the time he didn't know it was Madara, and he was afraid that if he told anyone, the Uchiha would be blamed and he didn't want that, because it would create tensions.

    Unfortunately, it happened anyway.

    4) The coup and the massacre

    The Uchiha started planning the coup. And soon Itachi was neck deep in it as we all know, serving as a spy. But being a peaceful man, he turned his back on the Uchiha. I suspect that this would be the moment when he figured out what the eyes were and more importantly who they belonged to. He was in the clan's secret meeting place after all, and he later told Sasuke to go there to find out about MS. But why didn't he tell anyone? Honestly, who would believe him that Madara is alive? "Everyone" knew that Shodaime killed him in VotE. Even if he convinced the Uchiha, the Elders wouldn't believe him and that would have jeopardized his position. If Madara and Danzo were connected, there was also that problem, so he couldn't tell the Elders. Regardless, he was hoping that things could be solved peacefully with the Sandaime in charge.
    And then something else happened. Shisui was killed. But Itachi denied it.

    It is not me who has killed Shisui... but for the words I have spoken I am deeply sorry.
    Taking into account his personality, it could very well be true. But look at the sentence again. The way it is formed, it sounds like Shisui was killed (as opposed to a suicide), but not by Itachi. Then who? Maybe it was Madara. He may have found out about the coup, either because Itachi sought him out after finding out he was still alive or through Danzo or some other means. Then Madara blackmailed Itachi. He wanted revenge on the Uchiha and if Itachi wouldn't agree to it, Madara would start killing off those closest to him. And Itachi would get the blame, because he was a double agent. The Uchiha already didn't trust him and the Elders were probably careful of a trap as well. After all, Itachi may just be pretending to work for them, but is actually working for the Uchiha. Such is the life of a double-agent.
    Now he was truly in hell. He may not have known the extent of Madara's power so he refused at first. And Shisui died because of it. So because of the blackmail and the elders pressing on, he and the 3rd were eventually forced to let it go through.

    But I'll just highlight a couple points just so you know
    1- Shisui may have been killed a reason other than just to get at Itachi. Remember, Shisui was supposed to be tailing Itachi. Madara may have killed Shisui because he discovered that he was alive. Madara may have also killed Shisui so that Itachi could gain his Mangekyou. Both cases, Itachi was against.

    2- The reasons Itachi didn't tell anyone about Madara could be many. It could be that Itachi was happy being trained by Madara for some time. It could be that Madara threatened to destroy Konoha if Itachi exposed him. It could be that no one would believe him, as you said.
    By now Itachi had to have realized how dangerous Madara really was. He needed to eliminate him. But he wasn't strong enough, not even with the MS. He knew he needed an EMS. So Sasuke was spared. It's possible Itachi decided to spare him. Or if he didn't kill anyone (according to the "Itachi: Drenched in Blood or Tears" theory), he planned it so that Sasuke would be in school when it happened. And on top of that Sasuke was late.

    The bottom line is, Sasuke had to live. At the same time, he ensured that Sasuke had a goal that would eventually push him to getting the MS.

    I also doubt there was any real debate as to who would be using the EMS - him or Sasuke. Peaceful as he was, he didn't have the heart to take Sasuke's eyes, so instead he decided to let Sasuke have them. And as I said before, Madara, Itachi, the Kyuubi and Orochimaru all saw something in him. Talent for sure, but the first three make Sasuke sound special in another way as well.

    Naruto 309 page 02 | One Manga
    Naruto 309 page 03 | One Manga

    We'll have to wait to find out what that is.

    This is the beginning of his plan. The only question that remained was would Sasuke obtain the MS by the time they fought? I think Itachi knew it wouldn't happen, because he knew Sasuke's character.
    This is reinforced by the manga itself later on:
    Naruto 343 page 02 | One Manga
    Naruto 343 page 03 | One Manga

    But even if Sasuke didn't get the MS Itachi already had a backup plan. Or perhaps it's better to say that it didn't really matter to him, because he would die by Sasuke's hand anyway, so he would get the MS.

    5) In Akatsuki - Itachi's plan against Madara's

    Being exiled from the village, he joined Akatsuki to keep an eye on it and Madara. This gave him enough time to plan out exactly how he would get to Madara. He was also a no-brainer because of his MS. Most importantly, it made him the perfect choice to capture the Kyuubi, so his enlistment was ensured. We know that Itachi used this to warn Konoha about Akatsuki:

    Naruto 401 page 06 | One Manga
    Naruto 401 page 07 | One Manga

    Death "prevented" him from going after Naruto, so Pain went instead. In fact, it's pretty obvious to me that Itachi was avoiding capturing Kyuubi, as evidenced here. (read pages 6 and 7 as well)

    He needed Naruto, as you'll find out later.

    This brings us to the next question: what about Madara? I believe Madara also knew about Sasuke. It's possible he knew before the massacre, and it's also possible he heard soon after that and took interest in him then. In any case he ended up knowing what Itachi wanted to achieve. So why didn't he kill Sasuke and thus prevented something that is obviously very powerful? Well the truth is it's still not clear. But obviously, he wants Sasuke. Either because he thinks another EMS user on his side would be a great ally, or because there is something else, too.
    But why did he let Itachi join Akatsuki? First of all he was good for capturing the Kyuubi, and secondly to keep an eye on him through Kisame. ("Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer" -- Sun-Tzu) This is taken from "The Uchiha Madara Story", not my own idea. At the same time the MS would cause Itachi's death eventually. It didn't even matter if Madara knew that Itachi wouldn't get Naruto, it was still a good excuse for Itachi to be in Akatsuki and for Madara to keep him under surveillance. As I said above, Madara wants Sasuke to get the EMS, so he needs Itachi alive until Sasuke gets his MS. Itachi dying in battle against Sasuke works out perfectly for him.

    Itachi must have known that Madara is keeping him under check through Kisame, so he knew he had to plan out every detail carefully if he wanted to stop Madara. He also had to deceive Madara in order to mask his plan. And he had a lot of time to do it. I'll elaborate on how he achieved this further below. The point is that every part of Itachi's plan was well thought out, and some of it came together before his fight with Sasuke. Probably quite a bit before.

    6) The moment draws near!

    Fast forward to after the time-skip. Things are coming together. Akatsuki is starting to capture the Bijuu. Itachi's time is short, because as soon as the Bijuu are captured, it's game over. But Orochimaru's time is close, too. I believe Itachi knew Sasuke would eventually betray Orochimaru, so he knew the moment of his own death would happen soon.

    Soon enough Orochimaru is dead, and Itachi finds out with the rest of Akatsuki. Pain suggests Sasuke is likely after Itachi and Kisame. Now it's time for Itachi to put the plan into motion. Deidara decides to go after Naruto or Sasuke (ended up being Sasuke). Serves as a nice delay for Itachi. He knew Sasuke would beat Deidara anyway.
    Naturally, Deidara dies. Supposedly, so does Sasuke.

    Naruto 363 page 07 | One Manga
    Naruto 363 page 08 | One Manga

    But Itachi knows Sasuke is alive. How did Itachi know that Deidara would die? He knew that Sasuke was strong enough to beat him, sure. But don't forget who was with Deidara. In the worst case, Madara would have done something, because he needed the EMS. It's not like anyone would know he killed Deidara. Except Zetsu, who didn't seem to know that Tobi was Madara at that point (and he found out before Sasuke's fight with Itachi anyway). Anyway, Itachi knew Madara was with Deidara, so he knew that Sasuke would survive, one way or another.

    Let's get back to Madara. He had a chance to observe Sasuke in the battle against Deidara, and was satisfied with what he had seen. Then he reported to Pain and told him to capture the Kyuubi, because he knew what was coming. This is later confirmed - Madara predicted that Itachi would die. Madara had Zetsu following Sasuke (as shown above). Now there was just one more problem in his way. The Konoha squad following Sasuke. Madara goes to stall them.


    Continued...
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    Continued.......


    7) The plan

    Back to Itachi again. Now I will finally get to the core of his plan. He had to inform Sasuke about Madara and tell him how to use the EMS. Itachi knew he would die by Sasuke's hand. But then he can't tell him the truth about Madara, the massacre and everything else. So how does he make sure Sasuke finds out?

    This is how:

    He had to be alone, to prevent Madara from finding out what he was about to do. Madara was elsewhere preparing to stall Konoha and Zetsu was following Sasuke. Now all that was left was to get rid of Kisame. He sent Kisame to welcome Sasuke and the rest of Hebi. Next, he created two Kage-Bunshins. One for Sasuke:

    Naruto 367 page 14 | One Manga
    Naruto 367 page 15 | One Manga

    And one for Naruto. Naruto stumbles upon Itachi by sheer coincidence. Or at least that's what he thinks. Itachi gives him the talk (read the following pages) and gives him The Gift. (read from the start of the chapter for the full story)

    I believe this is how Itachi plans to tell Sasuke about Madara. He intends to do something very similar to what Minato just did with Naruto. This works out both if Madara wins Sasuke over and if he doesn't (in which case he'd return to Konoha). I think this is the most important part of Itachi's Gift. It's likely it wasn't the only thing. And here Itachi dispels the shadow clone, practically proving that he sought Naruto out. (bottom left)

    I'll skip Sasuke vs. Itachi, because I don't think there's anything there you don't already know. Itachi transfers his techniques, plants Amaterasu and dies. But I believe the Amaterasu served another purpose. Itachi didn't know exactly what Madara knew. He had to take into account the possibility that Madara would predict Itachi trying to tell Sasuke the truth. I think Itachi knew the Amaterasu wouldn't work, but it also served as a perfect cover up for the gift to Naruto.

    Turns out that Madara didn't even expect the Amaterasu. This is even better for Itachi, because Madara will now be sure that this was how Itachi wanted to keep him away from Sasuke. Madara has failed to stop Sasuke from going to Konoha. And that's exactly what Itachi wants, because he wants him to meet Naruto.

    Naruto 397 page 09 | One Manga
    Naruto 397 page 10 | One Manga

    The Trapaterasu could have been to trick Madara, as you said.

    But consider this:

    Sasuke still didn't achieve Mangekyou until after Madara told him the story. Itachi may have known that Madara would influence Sasuke to achieve Mangekyou. He needs a Mangekyou Sasuke for his goals (whatever they are).

    That Trap-aterasu may have also been used to get a hard-headed Sasuke to listen. Sasuke had just killed his brother, and now he is about to find out information that the brother tried to keep from him. He would definitely want to know.

    By listening to Madara's story about Itachi, Sasuke was manipulated into achieving Mangekyou.

    Itachi knew Sasuke would be manipulated, and he also knew it was necessary. He just needed someone to undo the manipulation after the deed had already been done; that "deed" being Sasuke's Mangekyou activating so that he could later achieve PMS and defeat Madara.

    So...

    Trap-Aterasu was to trick Madara, and basically to trick Sasuke into listening to Madara.
    8) Conclusion

    He he, maybe Itachi didn't fail after all. This ends the story about Itachi and EMS.


    Addendum:

    This is more about Madara than Itachi, but from Madara's perspective it's good that Sasuke is going to Konoha, because if the elders are killed, there will be no one else who can tell Sasuke the truth about the massacre.

    -------------

    Hope you enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed writing it. Please be sure to read the theory entirely before asking questions!
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    .....thats a long read......Nice point you have brought fwd.....
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    That was too much to read......But thanks anyways...
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    Hey nice read thanks for the theory
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    WTF.....I really hoped I will get some replies for this one......
     
         
    Last edited by Orion; 08-22-2009 at 04:20 AM.

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    Quote Originally Posted by SSJ4Naruto View Post
    WTF.....I really hoped I will get some replies for this one......
    That was very very interesting. I read the first version fully, but only glossed over the second because it seemed so similar. Will come back to it later when I have more time (I'm supposed to be revising lol). It's nice to see other people who can appreciate the level of planning that goes into this manga, through the theories they come up with
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    sasuke knows full well what is going on. madara was telling the truth. and sasuke know that it was madara that used the kyuubi on konoha, did u all forget that the kyuubi told sasuke him self. itachi's actions and crying proves that madara was right about the village making him annihilate his own clan. the elders had no right to do that, so i side with sasuke 100% he should kill the elders and anyone who gets in his way.
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    i will be honest i read the first vrsion .. i couldn;t get to 2nd version .. i liked the first version adn willl read 2nd version soon ..

    then i will comment for gud ^_^
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    i dnt think madara knew, i think his brother "took 1 for the team" and madara noticed that his eyesight wasnt getting worse
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    Quote Originally Posted by kazeshini View Post
    i dnt think madara knew, i think his brother "took 1 for the team" and madara noticed that his eyesight wasnt getting worse
    can you explain your point in better way...One for the team????
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    U get EMS when you kill someone verry dear to you.. i cant think of any one more dear to sasuke then his older brother no matter what his goals where. Its that love that inspired the rage.. so he probably got ems the same way every1 else did.


    but i dont know u may be right
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    WOW another full awesome thread... one epic read... I got through it...

    I like the part you mentioned about Chakra effecting the red/black dot of the MS... Kyuubi did say that Sasuke's eyes were even more sinister the the one's of Uchiha Madara... The yin-yang factor I agree with 100% now that I have read this.

    Under 2) Mangekyou Sharingan - Recap / the 4th Quote... it says

    "It's possible that Madara only started controlling Kyuubi after he gained PMS. Or..." I really LMAO... not to show my immaturity but you said PMS... last time my ex got PMS shi-t hit the fan...

    I really hope Sasuke gets EMS which also brings him a new form of peace.
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    Quote Originally Posted by platinum69 View Post
    WOW another full awesome thread... one epic read... I got through it...

    I like the part you mentioned about Chakra effecting the red/black dot of the MS... Kyuubi did say that Sasuke's eyes were even more sinister the the one's of Uchiha Madara... The yin-yang factor I agree with 100% now that I have read this.

    Under 2) Mangekyou Sharingan - Recap / the 4th Quote... it says

    "It's possible that Madara only started controlling Kyuubi after he gained PMS. Or..." I really LMAO... not to show my immaturity but you said PMS... last time my ex got PMS shi-t hit the fan...

    I really hope Sasuke gets EMS which also brings him a new form of peace.
    Well thanks dude...
    PMS lmao. I never realised that. w8ing for one of your theory...
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    Amazing. I kept reading and reading and then i realized it's a wall of text.
    I must say that i agree with most of your points.

    The thing i don't agree with is the yin/yang, although what you say about the different colors of sharingan "dots" is impressive, i hadn't noticed that earlier.
    My objection to this is that we always think and come up with complicated theories about the manga, while Kishi is making things more simple than that: (remember all the "who is Tobi" theories? It turned out to be the simplest thing ever: the only Uchiha we have heard of in random and various occasions -fight with Shodaime, Kyuubi's statement-, Madara.)
    Also, my other point about this is that Kishi really relays on the past, the bloodlines and the whole "it is your destiny" thingy. We saw it recently with Naruto and Sasuke being destined to fight as descendants of the Senju and the Uchihas.
    You say this:

    Quote Originally Posted by SSJ4Naruto View Post
    As you can see, each of them has its own shape. But all of them share something. They all have a dot in the center. Notice also that there are two colors for the dots: red and black. The regular Sharingan has a black dot, but some of these have a red one. Let's also take a look at exactly who has which.

    Red: Kakashi, Izuna and Itachi
    Black: Madara and Sasuke
    and what i think is why it would be irrational to assume that there is another Sharingan "trait" as in: When 2 brothers are born from the same parents one of them will eventually get the EMS and the other one will only reach the MS level, to re assure that one of them will always be in charge. The EMS of that specific Uchiha brother will also mean his leadership to the whole clan. We have seen Kishi, being clear about hierarchies of what he has stated about the Hyuuga clan, only there it's just the elder who rules. In Uchiha is the one having the EMS.
    I don't think it's a yin yang thing, of course i might be mistaken, but i think it's more simple than that. And let's not forget that Uchihas aren't the only ones who can see or sense chakra. If the chakra base was different between Itachi and Sasuke, others would have noticed also.

    And finally, i wanted to draw back some attention to Kakashi, the guy is not an Uchiha but he still has MS. Even with the eye of Obito he still doesn't have the Uchiha blood. How on earth was he able to unlock MS and why wasn't he killed in the first place by the Uchihas? I mean, with Sharingan being their pride and strength you would expect them to get rid of the guy who is not Uchiha but he has the Sharingan. There was only Rin's word to back up the "Obito was dying and he gave on his own will his eye to Kakashi".

    Again, reps for you, you did an awesome job here. I enjoyed reading your theories and you even made me post a wall of text also
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    Awesome theory :D
    i really like the part talking about the colors of the sharingan tomoes.
    But is there much of a difference between the first and second version =/ ?
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    Quote Originally Posted by ♦ Rei-chan ♦ View Post
    Amazing. I kept reading and reading and then i realized it's a wall of text.
    I must say that i agree with most of your points.

    The thing i don't agree with is the yin/yang, although what you say about the different colors of sharingan "dots" is impressive, i hadn't noticed that earlier.
    My objection to this is that we always think and come up with complicated theories about the manga, while Kishi is making things more simple than that: (remember all the "who is Tobi" theories? It turned out to be the simplest thing ever: the only Uchiha we have heard of in random and various occasions -fight with Shodaime, Kyuubi's statement-, Madara.)
    Also, my other point about this is that Kishi really relays on the past, the bloodlines and the whole "it is your destiny" thingy. We saw it recently with Naruto and Sasuke being destined to fight as descendants of the Senju and the Uchihas.
    You say this:



    and what i think is why it would be irrational to assume that there is another Sharingan "trait" as in: When 2 brothers are born from the same parents one of them will eventually get the EMS and the other one will only reach the MS level, to re assure that one of them will always be in charge. The EMS of that specific Uchiha brother will also mean his leadership to the whole clan. We have seen Kishi, being clear about hierarchies of what he has stated about the Hyuuga clan, only there it's just the elder who rules. In Uchiha is the one having the EMS.
    I don't think it's a yin yang thing, of course i might be mistaken, but i think it's more simple than that. And let's not forget that Uchihas aren't the only ones who can see or sense chakra. If the chakra base was different between Itachi and Sasuke, others would have noticed also.

    And finally, i wanted to draw back some attention to Kakashi, the guy is not an Uchiha but he still has MS. Even with the eye of Obito he still doesn't have the Uchiha blood. How on earth was he able to unlock MS and why wasn't he killed in the first place by the Uchihas? I mean, with Sharingan being their pride and strength you would expect them to get rid of the guy who is not Uchiha but he has the Sharingan. There was only Rin's word to back up the "Obito was dying and he gave on his own will his eye to Kakashi".

    Again, reps for you, you did an awesome job here. I enjoyed reading your theories and you even made me post a wall of text also

    Wow! Rei-chan.
    Never expected of you leaving a reply. Thanks.
    I agree with most of what you say. I do think many time that Manga is not that complicated what people like me(Who like to create theories) thinks.
    Kishi had a made this manga in such a way that it fits with many mythologies, making us think that manga is based on these mythologies, But as you said it can be simpler than that.
    Regarding Yin and Yang chakra, I got that idea from one of the the theories on this forum. I think cash or chakra created it.
    Regarding Itachi and Sasuke. I think Tobi diffrentiated between two, when he met with pein in rain country. Kyuubi also told Sasuke is diffrent from other Uchihas.
    Now comes Kakashi. You are right, that proud Uchihas may not have accepted this fact of some non-uchiha using Sharingan. It seems they were planning coup from long time. Possibly they know konoha is supecting them for betrayal. So killing Kakashi in such situation would have been wrong move.
    And there was fourth who was ruling at that time. Most of the uchihas were normal sharingan user without MS or such thing. So handling entire konoha was out of their capacity, so they restrain from doing such stupid thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by musicgenesis View Post
    Awesome theory :D
    i really like the part talking about the colors of the sharingan tomoes.
    But is there much of a difference between the first and second version =/ ?
    Yes there is. I would have love to answer this question. But since I posted this theory some month ago, I am sorry to say I forgot what it meant. Sorry... :o
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    Quote Originally Posted by SSJ4Naruto View Post
    Wow! Rei-chan.
    Never expected of you leaving a reply. Thanks.
    I agree with most of what you say. I do think many time that Manga is not that complicated what people like me(Who like to create theories) thinks.
    Kishi had a made this manga in such a way that it fits with many mythologies, making us think that manga is based on these mythologies, But as you said it can be simpler than that.
    Regarding Yin and Yang chakra, I got that idea from one of the the theories on this forum. I think cash or chakra created it.
    Regarding Itachi and Sasuke. I think Tobi diffrentiated between two, when he met with pein in rain country. Kyuubi also told Sasuke is diffrent from other Uchihas.
    Now comes Kakashi. You are right, that proud Uchihas may not have accepted this fact of some non-uchiha using Sharingan. It seems they were planning coup from long time. Possibly they know konoha is supecting them for betrayal. So killing Kakashi in such situation would have been wrong move.
    And there was fourth who was ruling at that time. Most of the uchihas were normal sharingan user without MS or such thing. So handling entire konoha was out of their capacity, so they restrain from doing such stupid thing.


    Yes there is. I would have love to answer this question. But since I posted this theory some month ago, I am sorry to say I forgot what it meant. Sorry... :o
    I am full of surprises
    I will search this Yin Yang theory, perhaps there are manga facts i haven't noticed.
    As for what Kyuubi stated, i keep in my mind that Sasuke always has Orochimaru's curse mark, which is also Chakra based, as it forcibly pulls out more chakra, in this case: more Uchiha power. I think that in the future the curse mark will either be merged with the MS or it will fight it in some sick way.

    Meanwhile, i will make this a sticky since it is a very detailed and possible theory and people should pay serious attention to it.
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    Quote Originally Posted by ♦ Rei-chan ♦ View Post
    I am full of surprises
    I will search this Yin Yang theory, perhaps there are manga facts i haven't noticed.
    As for what Kyuubi stated, i keep in my mind that Sasuke always has Orochimaru's curse mark, which is also Chakra based, as it forcibly pulls out more chakra, in this case: more Uchiha power. I think that in the future the curse mark will either be merged with the MS or it will fight it in some sick way.

    Meanwhile, i will make this a sticky since it is a very detailed and possible theory and people should pay serious attention to it.


    ammmm.... I think the only "yin-yang" factor was only ever mentioned by J-man when talking to Scroll Frog dude about other matters.

    Awesome point on the curse mark bring out more of Sasukes... Uchiha powers.:D
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    I could not find the theory where I read about Sasuke and yin-yang chakra.:o:o
    Rei-chans point on MS and chakra is quite impressive. Will have tto think on that.
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    Great theory, I managed to read the first one. But will read the second one in awhile too

    Btw im new here so, Hewlo!
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    very good theory,i read every single word you wrote because i really believe there is more to itachi and his plan's,I think sasuke is obviously special in some way and the theory about different types of sharingan is interesting.
    I was hoping itachi was still alive somehow as well T.T.....
     
         

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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    Quote Originally Posted by akatsukigirl View Post
    very good theory,i read every single word you wrote because i really believe there is more to itachi and his plan's,I think sasuke is obviously special in some way and the theory about different types of sharingan is interesting.
    I was hoping itachi was still alive somehow as well T.T.....
    he didn't write it weirdo
     
         

  25. #25
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    Re: [Theory] EMS - Itachi's hope

    very long theory but worth reading cheers
    the bit about the black and red dots makes sense and is a new way to look at sharingans
     
         

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