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  1. #1
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    Irony and my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Please Read before posting dumb comments, I try to be respectful toward other people's opinions so please give me this courtesy.


    People say that EMS Sasuke can defeat Itachi, but Nagato can beat Sasuke, but Itachi is smart enough to beat Nagato?

    Also goes for Kabuto......I don't get it.

    I know you're going to say well one guy defeating another doesn't mean that they can't win against someone else, but the main argument people give to Itachi is that he wins with his wit.....but he can't win against Sasuke at this point with his intelligence, but can solo Nagato and Kabuto even when Sasuke has just about the exact same moveset?

    Nagato>Itachi
    I know I'll prob get flamed but Nagato>Itachi even as a cripple due to him most likely being able to shinra tensei away Totsuke blade, Bansho Ten'in is manipulating gravity and not a direct chakra attack, which means that Yata mirror prob won't be able to block it either. Itachi doesn't have the one man strength to destroy Chibaku Tensei.

    However, Itachi can still win due to Nagato being immobile sometimes; but if Nagato was not immobile then he would 100% win every single time. I am comparing their strengths as a whole if both were at their peak.


    Kabuto>Itachi
    Kabuto may have lost to Izanami(which again I still see as a deus ex machina) but considering that Itachi was an edo at the time, we can't fully say what would have happened if he were to be alive instead. Kabuto did fatally wound him as an edo before the activation, and to activate Izanami means that one must replicate a certain chain of movements.

    Itachi sacrificed his eye for this, and we still don't know the type of backlash he might get from it if he were still alive, and not even as an edo would he have lowered his defense at all since he was at risk of being sealed. Thus, it can be assumed that Itachi's defense was at 100% as an edo, meaning he would most likely have died before getting Izanami.

    People say Itachi wasn't going serious and that he could have sealed kabuto before hand, but Kabuto has proved to be fast enough to dodge Sasuke's Arrow which is a lot faster than a Susanoo swing. Also Amaterasu can be dodged by skin shedding, and Kabuto's chakra is vastly superior.

    It can also be assume that Itachi won't activate Izanami at the start of battle, because he did that as a "LAST RESORT" after analyzing that all the other techs were ineffective and also cost him his eye. Being an edo means he didn't care about losing an eye just like that, but if he were alive, that could be a whole different story.

    EMS Sasuke>Itachi
    My theory on EMS Sasuke winning is the fact that I believe Totsuka Blade can be blocked by Sasuke's Susanoo. The susanoo is just chakra solidified(if I'm not mistaken) and to be sealed, you must hit the user directly(As we've seen when Itachi chopped off Oro's Eight headed snake heads without sealing it)

    The Blade might not be powerful enough to break through the Susanoo to hit sasuke, but if it could then maybe Itachi could win. I'd say it's a 60% chance of Sasuke winning each time.

    That is my analysis and thank you for reading.
     
         
    Last edited by Lightbringer; 11-27-2012 at 10:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Riker Slade's Avatar
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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Itachi<Nagato.
     
         

  3. #3
    The Ruler of Swagakure Shodaime Swagkage's Avatar
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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    I wish I could read this wall of text. I'll try and give feed back.
     
         

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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by rikerslade View Post
    Itachi<Nagato.
    this
     
         

  5. #5
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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    people need to understand that the manga obviously made itachi > kabuto (without edo tensei), without sasuke, itachi was going to defeat kabuto anyway.
     
         

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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by flcl724 View Post


    itachi>nagato
    You people obviously don't read. I said Itachi can win against Nagato if he were immobile, but lose against mobile Nagato 100% of the time. And also that regardless, Nagato is stronger by all accounts than Itachi.
     
         

  7. #7
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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    everything is pretty right but the nagato>itachi part is based of assumptions and not facts from the manga.....so that part is wrong itachi>nagato
     
         
    Last edited by VariaBossX; 11-27-2012 at 11:01 PM.

  8. #8
    The Ruler of Swagakure Shodaime Swagkage's Avatar
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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    The first sentence I read
    People say that EMS Sasuke can defeat Itachi, but Nagato can beat Sasuke, but Itachi is smart enough to beat Nagato?
    the last sentence I read
    The Blade might not be powerful enough to break through the Susanoo to hit sasuke, but if it could then maybe Itachi could win. I'd say it's a 60% chance of Sasuke winning each time.
    I think you drifted of the topic but nice info :D
     
         

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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    I dont get that either Itachi and Sasuke has the same technique. One just is more preficent with ninjustu/genjustu.

    Well, I dont think Itachi can beat Nagato. Unless of course he Tsukyomi him.

    Kabuto vs Itachi I believe is debatable.
     
         

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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by flcl724 View Post


    itachi>nagato
    That was a Nagato who was unable to control himself, plus Itachi had help. He would have lost to Chibaku Tensei.

    @OP: I read it and I agree with you.
     
         

  11. #11
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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by rikerslade View Post
    That was a Nagato who was unable to control himself, plus Itachi had help. He would have lost to Chibaku Tensei.

    @OP: I read it and I agree with you.
    Thank you
     
         

  12. #12
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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Shodaime Swagkage View Post
    The first sentence I read

    the last sentence I read

    I think you drifted of the topic but nice info :D
    I guess my point with the last sentence is that Totsuka Blade is the greatest advantage Itachi has against any character. Without it, his overall strength would decrease drastically.
     
         

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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by rikerslade View Post
    That was a Nagato who was unable to control himself, plus Itachi had help. He would have lost to Chibaku Tensei.

    @OP: I read it and I agree with you.
    This...Nagato can't loose to that many people if he is at full strength.

    OT: Good thread and I agree
     
         

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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

     
         

  15. #15
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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by VariaBossX View Post
    Except that was when he was pretending to be evil. If we're going to base their strengths on what the characters themselves say, then Kabuto said he was the closest thing to the SO6P, meaning he wins on default.
     
         

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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightbringer View Post
    Except that was when he was pretending to be evil. If we're going to base their strengths on what the characters themselves say, then Kabuto said he was the closest thing to the SO6P, meaning he wins on default.
    Well no shit kabuto is right! read my earlier comments
     
         

  17. #17
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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by VariaBossX View Post
    Well no shit kabuto is right! read my earlier comments
    Oh lol ok, sorry about that. But nonetheless, we still don't know the effects of eye genjutsu toward the rinnegan. We know that sound genjutsu works, but not eye. If sharingan can break through any genjutsu on it's own, then Kabuto's sound genjutsu would have not worked on either Itachi or Sasuke(where they needed each other to break through). Sound is different from visual, and considering that the Rinnegan is an evolved Sharingna, we have no way of knowing the true outcome.

    But regardless, Nagato knows not to look into the sharingan since he worked with Itachi and knows what he's capable of.
     
         
    Last edited by Lightbringer; 11-27-2012 at 11:11 PM.

  18. #18
    Senior Member VariaBossX's Avatar
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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightbringer View Post
    Oh lol ok, sorry about that. But nonetheless, we still don't know the effects of eye genjutsu toward the rinnegan. We know that sound genjutsu works, but not eye. If sharingan can break through any genjutsu on it's own, then Kabuto's sound genjutsu would have not worked on either Itachi or Sasuke(where they needed each other to break through). Sound is different from visual, and considering that the Rinnegan is an evolved Sharingna, we have no way of knowing the true outcome.

    But regardless, Nagato knows not to look into the sharingan since he worked with Itachi and knows what he's capable of.
    you proved my point sound is different from visual. Nagato was trapped in a strong genjustu when it hit, same will happen again if not aware. But dojustu>genjustu, naruto got cought in a genjustu by itachi without looking into his eyes and he needed help from chiyo & sakura to break out of it. It will work because itachi has a superior visual genjustu, killing him with tsukyomi.....which he almost did to sasuke. These are in the manga fact, but can't show you because i have to leave for class
     
         

  19. #19
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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by VariaBossX View Post
    you proved my point sound is different from visual. Nagato was trapped in a strong genjustu when it hit, same will happen again if not aware. But dojustu>genjustu, naruto got cought in a genjustu by itachi without looking into his eyes and he needed help from chiyo & sakura to break out of it. It will work because itachi has a superior visual genjustu, killing him with tsukyomi.....which he almost did to sasuke. These are in the manga fact, but can't show you because i have to leave for class
    I suppose then it's a matter of who attacks first. If nagato is the one who attacks first, using summoning jutsu and such, then I doubt genjutsu would work and vice versa. Nonetheless, we never see Itachi's genjutsu being able to kill anyone, only neutralize them to a degree. It also depends on how fast Nagato could recover from the hit.

    However you do make a point.
     
         

  20. #20
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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightbringer View Post
    I suppose then it's a matter of who attacks first. If nagato is the one who attacks first, using summoning jutsu and such, then I doubt genjutsu would work and vice versa. Nonetheless, we never see Itachi's genjutsu being able to kill anyone, only neutralize them to a degree. It also depends on how fast Nagato could recover from the hit.

    However you do make a point.
    thx dude. but tsukyomi can kill according to the tobi and sasuke conversation. plus
    nagato is slow due to mobility but if both characters were at 100 percent than i don't
    knw who's faster
     
         

  21. #21
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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by VariaBossX View Post
    thx dude. but tsukyomi can kill according to the tobi and sasuke conversation. plus
    nagato is slow due to mobility but if both characters were at 100 percent than i don't
    knw who's faster
    Idk about Sasuke's being able to kill, but Tobi's can 100%....but it is unknown if Itachi's can do the same. I'd say they might about the same speed level, Itachi can weave chakra signs faster, but Nagato does need to do that. Itachi dodging attacks seems to be average since we've seen him get hit by kabuto and sasuke(yes I realize he was dying at that point) but we haven't seen any extraordinary dodging skill.

    As for Nagato, we never see him dodging anything in his own body really, but we do see him dodge quite well as the six paths(which I say is probably harder than using his own body since he has to control 6 bodies at once)
     
         

  22. #22
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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by flcl724 View Post


    itachi>nagato
    game over kabuto cannot counter this period, itachi needed him alive
    nagato will get the same business he shinra tensei might block it once but it takes five seconds to use again totsuka is a spiritual sword it will not recoil much if at all, itachi does not miss nagato will get sealed, also itaci does not have break CT he just has to seal nagato and then he wins if CT ends from nagato's death or he dies from ct after if yata cant protect him
     
         

  23. #23
    Member JKakano's Avatar
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    Re: Irony and my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightbringer View Post
    Please Read before posting dumb comments, I try to be respectful toward other people's opinions so please give me this courtesy.


    People say that EMS Sasuke can defeat Itachi, but Nagato can beat Sasuke, but Itachi is smart enough to beat Nagato?

    Also goes for Kabuto......I don't get it.

    I know you're going to say well one guy defeating another doesn't mean that they can't win against someone else, but the main argument people give to Itachi is that he wins with his wit.....but he can't win against Sasuke at this point with his intelligence, but can solo Nagato and Kabuto even when Sasuke has just about the exact same moveset?

    Nagato>Itachi
    I know I'll prob get flamed but Nagato>Itachi even as a cripple due to him most likely being able to shinra tensei away Totsuke blade, Bansho Ten'in is manipulating gravity and not a direct chakra attack, which means that Yata mirror prob won't be able to block it either. Itachi doesn't have the one man strength to destroy Chibaku Tensei.

    However, Itachi can still win due to Nagato being immobile sometimes; but if Nagato was not immobile then he would 100% win every single time. I am comparing their strengths as a whole if both were at their peak.


    Kabuto>Itachi
    Kabuto may have lost to Izanami(which again I still see as a deus ex machina) but considering that Itachi was an edo at the time, we can't fully say what would have happened if he were to be alive instead. Kabuto did fatally wound him as an edo before the activation, and to activate Izanami means that one must replicate a certain chain of movements.

    Itachi sacrificed his eye for this, and we still don't know the type of backlash he might get from it if he were still alive, and not even as an edo would he have lowered his defense at all since he was at risk of being sealed. Thus, it can be assumed that Itachi's defense was at 100% as an edo, meaning he would most likely have died before getting Izanami.

    People say Itachi wasn't going serious and that he could have sealed kabuto before hand, but Kabuto has proved to be fast enough to dodge Sasuke's Arrow which is a lot faster than a Susanoo swing. Also Amaterasu can be dodged by skin shedding, and Kabuto's chakra is vastly superior.

    It can also be assume that Itachi won't activate Izanami at the start of battle, because he did that as a "LAST RESORT" after analyzing that all the other techs were ineffective and also cost him his eye. Being an edo means he didn't care about losing an eye just like that, but if he were alive, that could be a whole different story.

    EMS Sasuke>Itachi
    My theory on EMS Sasuke winning is the fact that I believe Totsuka Blade can be blocked by Sasuke's Susanoo. The susanoo is just chakra solidified(if I'm not mistaken) and to be sealed, you must hit the user directly(As we've seen when Itachi chopped off Oro's Eight headed snake heads without sealing it)

    The Blade might not be powerful enough to break through the Susanoo to hit sasuke, but if it could then maybe Itachi could win. I'd say it's a 60% chance of Sasuke winning each time.

    That is my analysis and thank you for reading.
    everything is so wrong.. u don't know what happened if itachi alone fought each of them, he alway know what to do..
     
         

  24. #24
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    Re: Irony and my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by JKakano View Post
    everything is so wrong.. u don't know what happened if itachi alone fought each of them, he alway know what to do..
    That's a poor argument. You can't just say he "always" knows what to do. By that logic, he'd be the number 1 character, which he is not. He is amazing at analyzing abilities, but he needs to see those abilities first, as he did with Chibaku Tensei, etc.


    Against Kabuto, he saw what he was capable of and was on the defense. He knows that amaterasu wouldn't work because he seen how sasuke shed his skin. He didn't know Kabuto's speed until he saw him dodge an arrow from Sasuke. He used Izanami because that was the only thing he could do, but if it were 1v1. He wouldn't have seen Kabuto's speed until kabuto attacked him, rather than dodging an arrow, because Sasuke wouldn't be there and Itachi would be on defense.

    He also didn't know about the nature manipulation until Itachi got hit with it......Kabuto's speed can defeat Itachi, because Itachi would simply not be able to react that fast. Yes Itachi is fast at analyzing and hand seals, but we've never seen him have any extraordinary dodging abilities.
     
         

  25. #25
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    Re: Irony and an my end to Itachi>Nagato/Kabuto arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightbringer View Post
    Idk about Sasuke's being able to kill, but Tobi's can 100%....but it is unknown if Itachi's can do the same. I'd say they might about the same speed level, Itachi can weave chakra signs faster, but Nagato does need to do that. Itachi dodging attacks seems to be average since we've seen him get hit by kabuto and sasuke(yes I realize he was dying at that point) but we haven't seen any extraordinary dodging skill.

    As for Nagato, we never see him dodging anything in his own body really, but we do see him dodge quite well as the six paths(which I say is probably harder than using his own body since he has to control 6 bodies at once)
    No i mean sasuke almost got killed by itachi's tsukiyomi. i can't say this to nagato but i will point out the reaction time for pein and itachi

    this is pein's reaction time while

    itachi's is better. plus both were using different bodies and itachi used 30% chakra to fight
     
         

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