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  1. #1
    Member Kisuke Kakashi's Avatar
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    Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    I've just been wondering a lot recently, with all the discussions that've resurfaced about Sharingan, and the Uchiha clan.

    According to Uchiha Madara's account of the clan's history, Mangekyou Sharingan has always been obtained by way of killing their best friend, followed by the "Eternal" variant, occuring when binding the eyes of a brother, or such, with your own.

    Recent data shows two Sharingan users that have developed the Mangekyou without resorting to these actions;
    Uchiha Sasuke and Hatake Kakashi.

    Sasuke, obtained his thanks to Itachi's interference. This then since developed into his own.
    There's still a lot of mystery surrounding this.

    Kakashi, however, seems to have unlocked his naturally. We know for certain that Uchiha Obito didn't have the Mangekyou Sharingan when it was implanted into Kakashi (it only had two tomoes, in fact). That said, we also know that Kakashi hasn't killed his best friend.

    This thread isn't so much to theorise how Kakashi unlocked it, but more-so to ask if he can in the same way develop EMS on his own, without odd eye-stealing, and to question:
    Is Kakashi's "natural" way of developing his eyes, the way it was always intended to happen?
    Was the blood-stained past of the Uchiha clan just a consequence of misinterpretation?
    Does Kakashi's way mean he has the opportunity to truly master this Doujutsu?
    Or will he be hindered by the issue that he isn't of Uchiha blood?

    Not so much a theory, more a topic of discussion.
    Feedback welcome.
     
         

  2. #2
    to be love, to be love Realtwisted's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisuke Kakashi View Post
    I've just been wondering a lot recently, with all the discussions that've resurfaced about Sharingan, and the Uchiha clan.

    According to Uchiha Madara's account of the clan's history, Mangekyou Sharingan has always been obtained by way of killing their best friend, followed by the "Eternal" variant, occuring when binding the eyes of a brother, or such, with your own.

    Recent data shows two Sharingan users that have developed the Mangekyou without resorting to these actions;
    Uchiha Sasuke and Hatake Kakashi.

    Sasuke, obtained his thanks to Itachi's interference. This then since developed into his own.
    There's still a lot of mystery surrounding this.

    Kakashi, however, seems to have unlocked his naturally. We know for certain that Uchiha Obito didn't have the Mangekyou Sharingan when it was implanted into Kakashi (it only had two tomoes, in fact). That said, we also know that Kakashi hasn't killed his best friend.

    This thread isn't so much to theorise how Kakashi unlocked it, but more-so to ask if he can in the same way develop EMS on his own, without odd eye-stealing, and to question:
    Is Kakashi's "natural" way of developing his eyes, the way it was always intended to happen?
    Was the blood-stained past of the Uchiha clan just a consequence of misinterpretation?
    Does Kakashi's way mean he has the opportunity to truly master this Doujutsu?
    Or will he be hindered by the issue that he isn't of Uchiha blood?

    Not so much a theory, more a topic of discussion.
    Feedback welcome.
    If kakashi had Uchiha blood, he would be capable of using his MS more time, i think he going get blind.
    Every time he use his MS, he end up in the hospital...
     
         

  3. #3
    Senior Member Ryuusaki's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    Quote Originally Posted by Realtwisted View Post
    If kakashi had Uchiha blood, he would be capable of using his MS more time, i think he going get blind.
    Every time he use his MS, he end up in the hospital...
    That's because using the sharingan when not an original heir to the bloodline it puts a lot more strain on you... Hence why he has to cover it up all the time.
     
         

  4. #4
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    I like this theory. Or maybe it's not the act of you actually killing your friend that gives you the MS, like you said, it could be a misinterpritation. But maybe it's the mindset of you knowing or strongly believing that you killed your closest friend. (Who I suppose would've been Obito) Because Kakashi always seems like he feels guilty for Obito's death when we see him talk about Obito. Or of course, it could just be as simple as there are alternate ways of getting it. =/

    None the less, Kakashi does have great potential, being able to advance the sharingan in any way without being part of the Uchiha clan is worth applause, and he was able to advance it twice. And it's even crazier when you think about how not all Uchiha were able to gain the sharingan.
     
         

  5. #5
    to be love, to be love Realtwisted's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuusaki View Post
    That's because using the sharingan when not an original heir to the bloodline it puts a lot more strain on you... Hence why he has to cover it up all the time.
    Imagen, when he has EMS, he can only use it once..
     
         

  6. #6
    Member chopsy16's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    Well 1st off.. Sasuke did fullfil the requirement when he killled (or tried to kill) Orochimaru... who was close to him.. like his mentor n all.. in addition to Itachi giving him his powers.. one has to go through this high emotional barrier to get MS...

    In Kakashi's case we don't know whether he obtained his MS naturally or he fulfilled the requirement of killing a kin/friend.. or someone close.. I cud speculate that may be one of his comrades turned bad and he was forced to kill him.. after all we really don't knw much abt kakashi's inner circle.. I highly doubt it happ naturally.. it doesn't make any sense.. otherwise any Uchiha cud hav obtained it in such a way... even Danzo cud than in that way..

    As far as EMS goes there is only 1 way n that is to transplant another eye that has MS on top of kakashi's own MS eye lens.. tht is only way to achieve EMS tht we knw off till yet
     
         

  7. #7
    Feeling little Dizzy. Orion's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    No Idea, it seems like Emotional Trauma is a reason behind activation of MS. But not sure of EMS. Uchiha whose body is made to use MS, also can not handle MS for long time, E.g. Itachi and Madara. We know Itachi was losing his eye sight because of using MS. Madara used another MS to get EMS, that do not count for Emotional Trauma. It is like wat oro did, injecting which is not part of your body. So I dont think Kakashi can ever use EMS, unless someones MS is planted in it...
     
         

  8. #8
    to be love, to be love Realtwisted's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    Quote Originally Posted by chopsy16 View Post
    Well 1st off.. Sasuke did fullfil the requirement when he killled (or tried to kill) Orochimaru... who was close to him.. like his mentor n all.. in addition to Itachi giving him his powers.. one has to go through this high emotional barrier to get MS...

    In Kakashi's case we don't know whether he obtained his MS naturally or he fulfilled the requirement of killing a kin/friend.. or someone close.. I cud speculate that may be one of his comrades turned bad and he was forced to kill him.. after all we really don't knw much abt kakashi's inner circle.. I highly doubt it happ naturally.. it doesn't make any sense.. otherwise any Uchiha cud hav obtained it in such a way... even Danzo cud than in that way..

    As far as EMS goes there is only 1 way n that is to transplant another eye that has MS on top of kakashi's own MS eye lens.. tht is only way to achieve EMS tht we knw off till yet
    You only can get EMS by transplant your brother MS "Same blood"
     
         

  9. #9
    Riku..'s Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    Quote Originally Posted by chopsy16 View Post
    Well 1st off.. Sasuke did fullfil the requirement when he killled (or tried to kill) Orochimaru... who was close to him.. like his mentor n all.. in addition to Itachi giving him his powers.. one has to go through this high emotional barrier to get MS...

    In Kakashi's case we don't know whether he obtained his MS naturally or he fulfilled the requirement of killing a kin/friend.. or someone close.. I cud speculate that may be one of his comrades turned bad and he was forced to kill him.. after all we really don't knw much abt kakashi's inner circle.. I highly doubt it happ naturally.. it doesn't make any sense.. otherwise any Uchiha cud hav obtained it in such a way... even Danzo cud than in that way..

    As far as EMS goes there is only 1 way n that is to transplant another eye that has MS on top of kakashi's own MS eye lens.. tht is only way to achieve EMS tht we knw off till yet
    Totally disagreed, Sasuke never even showed respect to Orochimaru, he was basically just using him. Hence why he killed him when he had no more to learn from him. If he actually cared about him, he would've spared him like he did for Naruto back in the VOE, we've already seen that Sasuke isn't as heartless as a lot of people thought. Even if we think that they may have been closed, Sasuke never accepted it, and the MS wouldn't come if you never actually accepted someone as your "best friend," and Sasuke never did. Sasuke and Orochimaru's relationship was just like a business only thing to both of them, it isn't like Naruto and Jiriya or even Sakura and Tsunade.
     
         

  10. #10
    Member chopsy16's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riku.. View Post
    Totally disagreed, Sasuke never even showed respect to Orochimaru, he was basically just using him. Hence why he killed him when he had no more to learn from him. If he actually cared about him, he would've spared him like he did for Naruto back in the VOE, we've already seen that Sasuke isn't as heartless as a lot of people thought. Even if we think that they may have been closed, Sasuke never accepted it, and the MS wouldn't come if you never actually accepted someone as your "best friend," and Sasuke never did. Sasuke and Orochimaru's relationship was just like a business only thing to both of them, it isn't like Naruto and Jiriya or even Sakura and Tsunade.
    Well.. it was Madara that said it himself to Sasuke.. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/401/03/
    I don't knw.. if this was the battle with Itachi.. or with oro.. tht wud awaken his MS.. either way it worked
     
         
    Last edited by chopsy16; 08-03-2009 at 03:23 PM.

  11. #11
    Riku..'s Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    Quote Originally Posted by chopsy16 View Post
    Well.. it was Madara that said it himself to Sasuke.. http://http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/401/03/
    Actually Itachi did it for Sasuke.. to awaken his MS..
    I can't see the page, but anyway, Madara said that he took Orochimaru out to take off the curse mark in order to awaken the MS, it had nothing to do with Sasuke and Orochimaru having a relation ship. If your showing the page I think you're showing, then it shows Sasuke looking at his neck surprised (or in a page after it) because he doesn't have the curse mark. It was basically saying that the curse mark held him back from getting the MS.
     
         

  12. #12
    Member chopsy16's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    okay i fixed the link.. well u have a different interpretation of whats going on then what I think might have happ.. so no point in arguing with u..
    From what i can read n tell.. it look like Madara meant that there were 2 reasons why Itachi wanted Oro to come out... 1st was to get rid of the curse mark like u said..
    2nd he said in plain statement "and with the death of someone close to you.. the battle would awaken your MS".. so he meant clearly with the death of someone close to u.. wich means it was either Itachi himself or Orochimaru.. I don knw wich one..
     
         
    Last edited by chopsy16; 08-03-2009 at 04:05 PM.

  13. #13
    The Demi-Lurker DarkMarke's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    I personally think that MS awakens from emotional trauma. (As said above)
    Since the Uchiha clan probably only experienced the required level of emotional tauma from the act of killing ones best friend, they simply said that killing ones best friend was the requirement.

    Sasuke never killed Naruto which pours some water on the best friend theory.
    The same goes for Orochimaru and that Sasuke got the MS either when he killed him in his hideout (Which I doubt, Orochi was sealed in Sasuke's subconscious and Sasuke knew it, his body was dead but Orochi's soul was still there) or when Orochi was Killed/Sealed by Itachi's Susano-O.
    However, Sasuke never thought of Orochi as a friend or even liked him. (As said above)

    So where did he get MS.
    Here's what I think, Tobi/Madara gave it to him.
    After Sasuke killed Itachi, Madara took Sasuke into care and told him about the history of the Uchiha clan and the truth behind the Massacre.

    I think that the idea of having all he thought was true being rewritten and that the person he killed was still the loving brother he remembered from his childhood (And not a psycho mind rapist) would be more than enough emotional trauma to activate his MS.

    Madara awakened Sasuke's MS and recruited him into Akatsuki in one go. (typical of an evil genius)

    thats what I think at least.

    and for the occasional bytch who will try and whine about Sasuke using Amaterasu before finding out the true: that was Itachi's doing.

    So Kakashi could have emulated the trauma and gotten the MS that way.

    that's pretty much it.............for now!
     
         
    Last edited by DarkMarke; 08-03-2009 at 03:41 PM.

  14. #14
    Member Kisuke Kakashi's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    I do agree with most of what's been said, and emotional trauma certainly seems to be one way to unlock the Mangekyou; but does that mean it has to be the only way?

    When Kakashi uses MS for the first time (that we see), he implies that it's something he's recently acquired. So that would mean he went through some sort of emotional trauma during the time-skip, but there's never any evidence of this.

    Until we find out if he did or not, I'm going to assume he developed it, training his Sharingan, one way or another.
     
         

  15. #15
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    Quote Originally Posted by chopsy16 View Post
    okay i fixed the link.. well u have a different interpretation of whats going on then what I think might have happ.. so no point in arguing with u..
    From what i can read n tell.. it look like Madara meant that there were 2 reasons why Itachi wanted Oro to come out... 1st was to get rid of the curse mark like u said..
    2nd he said in plain statement "and with the death of someone close to you.. the battle would awaken your MS".. so he meant clearly with the death of someone close to u.. wich means it was either Itachi himself or Orochimaru.. I don knw wich one..
    I think it was Itachi himself, idk, you could be right, it may be Orochimaru. But I'm just saying that Sasuke and Orochimaru never passed off as best of friends, that's pretty indisputable. But I think it was Itachi because after he found out the truth, Sasuke new how much he really did care for Itachi behind all of the false hatred, and as we said, it's more than most likely an emotional thing with the MS rather than the act of them actually killing their best friend.
     
         

  16. #16
    Member chopsy16's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riku.. View Post
    I think it was Itachi himself, idk, you could be right, it may be Orochimaru. But I'm just saying that Sasuke and Orochimaru never passed off as best of friends, that's pretty indisputable. But I think it was Itachi because after he found out the truth, Sasuke new how much he really did care for Itachi behind all of the false hatred, and as we said, it's more than most likely an emotional thing with the MS rather than the act of them actually killing their best friend.
    Yup.. finally we r on same page.. I agree it looks like emotional trauma is the main thing behind triggering the MS
     
         

  17. #17
    Member toad sage-hristo's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkMarke View Post
    I personally think that MS awakens from emotional trauma. (As said above)
    Since the Uchiha clan probably only experienced the required level of emotional tauma from the act of killing ones best friend, they simply said that killing ones best friend was the requirement.

    Sasuke never killed Naruto which pours some water on the best friend theory.
    The same goes for Orochimaru and that Sasuke got the MS either when he killed him in his hideout (Which I doubt, Orochi was sealed in Sasuke's subconscious and Sasuke knew it, his body was dead but Orochi's soul was still there) or when Orochi was Killed/Sealed by Itachi's Susano-O.
    However, Sasuke never thought of Orochi as a friend or even liked him. (As said above)

    So where did he get MS.
    Here's what I think, Tobi/Madara gave it to him.
    After Sasuke killed Itachi, Madara took Sasuke into care and told him about the history of the Uchiha clan and the truth behind the Massacre.

    I think that the idea of having all he thought was true being rewritten and that the person he killed was still the loving brother he remembered from his childhood (And not a psycho mind rapist) would be more than enough emotional trauma to activate his MS.

    Madara awakened Sasuke's MS and recruited him into Akatsuki in one go. (typical of an evil genius)

    thats what I think at least.

    and for the occasional bytch who will try and whine about Sasuke using Amaterasu before finding out the true: that was Itachi's doing.

    So Kakashi could have emulated the trauma and gotten the MS that way.

    that's pretty much it.............for now!
    yeah im pretty sure its emotional trauma that awakens the MS and not killing ur best freind, but maybe like the death of someone close to you, like kakashi getting his due to the death of obito and sasuke getting his due to itachi's death
     
         

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    Member toad sage-hristo's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    Quote Originally Posted by Realtwisted View Post
    You only can get EMS by transplant your brother MS "Same blood"
    it was never implied that it had to be the ''same blood'' madara just said that to awaken EMS you just need to transplant another set of eyes that had the MS it just happened that the people that had it were related
     
         

  19. #19
    忍者 Knight of Thorns zenron's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    Kakashi has MS because he blames himself for the death of his best friend obito.
     
         

  20. #20
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    In my opinion, i think kakashi didnt know about the mangayku, only the elders and ppl that been around for a while know about it, and others just seem it as a story, like jaraiya, he was surprise wen he saw the amaderetsu( mayb spelled wrong sorry) i think kakashi had it and didnt know he did until itach used it on him, mayb he had a misssion and had to kill a friend because he was badly injured.
     
         

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    The Demi-Lurker DarkMarke's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    Quote Originally Posted by HeMenace View Post
    In my opinion, i think kakashi didnt know about the mangayku, only the elders and ppl that been around for a while know about it, and others just seem it as a story, like jaraiya, he was surprise wen he saw the amaderetsu( mayb spelled wrong sorry) i think kakashi had it and didnt know he did until itach used it on him, mayb he had a misssion and had to kill a friend because he was badly injured.
    He knew about the MS, that's why he told Kurenai and Asuma to close their eye's when Itachi used it.
    Episode 82 if I remember correctly.
     
         
    Last edited by DarkMarke; 08-04-2009 at 12:55 PM.

  22. #22
    Just Copied Hell TheCopyNinja's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    He just developed it over the time skip

    Itachi noticed it without him even activating
    as see on Naruto 257 page 08 | One Manga he already had indicated that he knew the effects of MS other than hearing it from Kisame
    On Naruto 257 page 09 | One Manga and Naruto 257 page 10 | One Manga

    Kakashi had advanced to MS what Itachi only thought possible by elite Uchiha's so I think that Kakashi can do anything besides from the fact he is my one of my favorite characters.
     
         

  23. #23
    to be love, to be love Realtwisted's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCopyNinja View Post
    He just developed it over the time skip

    Itachi noticed it without him even activating
    as see on Naruto 257 page 08 | One Manga he already had indicated that he knew the effects of MS other than hearing it from Kisame
    On Naruto 257 page 09 | One Manga and Naruto 257 page 10 | One Manga

    Kakashi had advanced to MS what Itachi only thought possible by elite Uchiha's so I think that Kakashi can do anything besides from the fact he is my one of my favorite characters.
    I think Kakashi eye sight is deto,
    in the search for Gaara, he use his MS twice, end up in the hospital
    In Nagato invension, he use it twice, end death.
     
         
    Last edited by Realtwisted; 08-03-2009 at 08:57 PM.

  24. #24
    Just Copied Hell TheCopyNinja's Avatar
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    Quote Originally Posted by Realtwisted View Post
    I think Kakashi eye sight is deto,
    It could be true he hasn't shown any signs of it, using the Sharigan has always put a strain on him and forced him to get rest, that being evident in the fight with Zabuza.
     
         

  25. #25
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    Re: Hatake Kakashi: Ultimate potential?

    my take on kakashi having ms is that he witnessed his best freinds death
    which is a similar method for sasuke who witnessed the death of the person he centered his life on and thats how he got it

    but who knows, only the author
     
         

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