(Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

[Unbiased]

I think you did a great thread, and you did indeed prove your point. A standard 3-tomoe sharingan is inferior to the byakugan. That is why it is the greatest dojutsu in leaf... I will also say that the byakugan is a lot more useful than the sharingan. Heck even more than the MS. If it wasn't for the byakugan, the shinobi force had never found all the zetsus - for instance. It is also the best ability for tracking enemies.

However, the specific MS abilities allowed are simply too great for the byakugan. You say it can deflect Amaterasu. I will agree on that, but how does the huyga attack an uchiha with susanoo, amaterasu and a vast amount of paralyzing genjutsu?
I did read how you say a huyga can deflect or counter it, however, honestly.. Those statements from idiotic Temrai isn't really that valid. I clearly remember the anime, where she seems so confident in the huyga abilities, but what happened? Neji was fooled by a mere kage bunshin. In the end it comes down to who uses his abilities best.

Anyway lets say they are equal on that part. I still need my question answered. How do a Huyga attack an MS user with susanoo? I am pretty sure that so called "fleeing rule" appeals to the Huyga as well. Chiyu said it, when they met Itachi. If you fight am Uchiha 1 on 1, surely flee. I honestly do not see your arguments about genjutsu either.

Take Itachi. We know how little it takes for him to cast a genjutsu. He spams some sick katon, followed by his amazing shurinken skills, he can easily make incoming attacks that hits the huyga from everywhere, who has no other choice, but to use his spin. How does he see Itachi while he is spinning? During this time, Itachi could use the genjutsu, thus altering the Huyga to see an Itachi that isn't using any chakra from anywhere. Thus he is caught, and 1 on 1 that is the worst possible scenario against an uchiha.

So tbh, I would say that even the 3-tomoe can defeat the byakugan, but I still think that the byakugan is the greatest. It simply means that it is a lot more useful than sharingan. However, ABC logic does not work. That is why the byakugan is a lot more terrifying, and it is much more useful for a large battle, hunting enemies, etc.

Anyway kudos, you proved your point.

I see your not a troll so thanks.

1-Susanoo. They're two options. One is to disperse the technique by finding its weak spot(like neji did to the wate prison) and 2 is to simply cut through it. Now the 2nd option is where people get a WTF like face and say "that's impossible". I'll use neji as an example. Neji VS kidimaro showed us one thing. Neji's Tenketsu skills can cut through anything. Kidimaro stated that the thread was unbreakable and Sasuke managed to burn it away using the strongest offensive ninjutsu attack known as amaterasu. (kabuto stated it was the strongest offense). Therefore since it took the greatest offensive ninjutsu attack to cut through the web, it tells us that the tenketsu jutsu is also on par if not stronger then amaterasu verifying that tenketsu's can slice through susanoo. Susanoo is not a perfect defense and can be destroyed, however that thread has never been cut and required the strongest ninjutsu to burn.

Summary for susanoo-Tenketsu can cut through it as tenketsu has been shown cutting through an unbreakable substance.

Your definitely right about the Itachi being able to place a genjutsu. But the argument falls apart for 2 reasons.

1-Genjutsu's disrupt your chakra, if the hyuuga is using heavenly rotation(were obviously talking about main branch) then the genjutsu cannot enter the chakra system as the openings are being excreted with chakra.
2-The byakugan allows the user to see in 360 degrees with one small weak point. They can still close their eyes and see as their Dojutsu allows for that to happen. I know a lot of people would say "well the byakugan won't work if they can't see." Does a dojutsu stop working if eyesight is prohibited? Danzo could use his sharingan while it was covered up, the rinnegan is still active if nagatos eyes are closed. So closing your eyes would not stop the byakugan from working. I hope this information helped you.

[Unbiased]

Like I stated before I agree byakugan trumps all dojutsu because it allows all its useres to learn all it techniques. i'm even placing it above the rinnigan because to obtainthat you must have senju and uchiha dna and a sharingan. it is given to the hyuga at birth and therefore are given a longer time to develope their techniques. now though the sharningan is OP and has a lot of power ups it can still be defeated by a byakugan user. all these dojutsus are, are weapons. they are only as good as the people who use them.. so you can debate all daythat rotation trumps all or that Susanoo beats everything but unless we know who exactly is using the technique we cannot determine which is actually better as a fact. all we can do is opinionize ourselves and state manga facts but until we are given a battle between the best sharningan user ever and the best byakugan user ever we cannot determine anything.

Yes that is correct I agree with everything you stated. This thread was not created to debate Byakugan user > Sharingan user but to display that the Byakugan > the sharingan or at the very least can counte any jutsu made. Its benefits for your allies along with yourself are far superior to the sharingan. I wouldn't agree though that the byakugan is greater then the rinnegan but that's just my opinion.

[Thundercles]

Final counter argument
Naruto vs Neji part 1
Neji: Master of byakugan and strongest Genin atm
Guess who won?

#1 Plot
#2 It was due to Neji's arrogance..not tech.

[Thundercles]

Dude, what a great post. Well written, well thought-out, and well presented. Congrats. This is better than most of the dribble I have the misfortune of reading. I think the main reason why this can be countered is due to the main story and the characters. If you had a Madara-lvl Byakugan user, then its gg. I agree with you. In the right hands, this tech is badass!

[Unbiased]

Dude, what a great post. Well written, well thought-out, and well presented. Congrats. This is better than most of the dribble I have the misfortune of reading. I think the main reason why this can be countered is due to the main story and the characters. If you had a Madara-lvl Byakugan user, then its gg. I agree with you. In the right hands, this tech is badass!

I started loling at the bolded part. Thank you, a lot of people took this way out of hand and thought I was comparing neji to Madara or Obito when i'm simply doing a comparison of two dojutsus.

[garas56]

Even sharingan might be defeated by Byakugan,it all depends on the technic,strength and Strategies.(no mater u are Uchiha,senju,Uzumaky or hyouga,you are foder without technic,strength and Strategies).

[Blaze Release]

I see no reason to argue with these hyuuga fans. When the manga has put the uchiha above them with only the senju rivalling them there is not much to argue about. When the hype the uchiha has gotten from the manga stems from the 3 tomoe sharingan users and not the ms because only a few had it, there is not much to argue about. Whilst there was a flee on slight against a uchiha in a 1 vs 1 scenario, i cannot remember anything said about hyuga. Even in the manga when the senju were long gone, it was the uchiha who were said to be the strongest clan in the village and after the masacre did the hyuga get this title.

What is there to argue about when the manga has put the uchiha/sharingan above the hyuga/byakugan.

Ive also noticed that when it comes to power up people forget above its predecessor. Because we are now accustomed to the ms user's people have some how come to the conclusion that the basic 3 tomoe isnt a powerful tool, but i can assure you that the basic 3 tomoe is one of the most powerful kg's in naruto and when fully mastered will allow the user to fight and defeat kage level shinobi's.

[Unbiased]

Even sharingan might be defeated by Byakugan,it all depends on the technic,strength and Strategies.(no mater u are Uchiha,senju,Uzumaky or hyouga,you are foder without technic,strength and Strategies).

It seems like the wee morning hours is when a lot of intelligent post are displayed. A Gun in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use it effectively cannot kill. A rock in the hands of someone who has mastered it can kill. I forget where I heard that saying. I think it might of been a video game.

[Turson]

Power-wise it should be like this:
1. Rinnegan
2. EMS
3. MS
4. Byakugan
5. 3-tomoe Sharingan

I dont really think Byakugan user would defeat MS user. For example: Susanoo arrow. Its too fast, Neji wouldnt be able to spin fast enough in order to deflect it.

[Unbiased]

I see no reason to argue with these hyuuga fans. When the manga has put the uchiha above them with only the senju rivalling them there is not much to argue about. When the hype the uchiha has gotten from the manga stems from the 3 tomoe sharingan users and not the ms because only a few had it, there is not much to argue about. Whilst there was a flee on slight against a uchiha in a 1 vs 1 scenario, i cannot remember anything said about hyuga. Even in the manga when the senju were long gone, it was the uchiha who were said to be the strongest clan in the village and after the masacre did the hyuga get this title.

What is there to argue about when the manga has put the uchiha/sharingan above the hyuga/byakugan.

Ive also noticed that when it comes to power up people forget above its predecessor. Because we are now accustomed to the ms user's people have some how come to the conclusion that the basic 3 tomoe isnt a powerful tool, but i can assure you that the basic 3 tomoe is one of the most powerful kg's in naruto and when fully mastered will allow the user to fight and defeat kage level shinobi's.

Kakashi stated it was the oldest and greatest bloodline in the village.

That alone is hype enough. Where in the manga has it been stated that the Uchiha is the greatest bloodline in the village?

[Unbiased]

Power-wise it should be like this:
1. Rinnegan
2. EMS
3. MS
4. Byakugan
5. 3-tomoe Sharingan

I dont really think Byakugan user would defeat MS user. For example: Susanoo arrow. Its too fast, Neji wouldnt be able to spin fast enough in order to deflect it.

To an extent I have to agree. It is possible for a byakugan user to defeat EMS MS but it all depends on the user. This thread was just to point out the byakugan is superior to the sharingan/MS/EMS. It wasn't a comparison of characters with byakugan vs characters with sharingan.

[choft]

A rock in the hands of someone who has mastered it can kill. I forget where I heard that saying. I think it might of been a video game.

Zetsu said something similar too.

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/388/15

[Turson]

It wasn't a comparison of characters with byakugan vs characters with sharingan.

Well, I also wasnt comparing characters in my post, only ocular powers.

[Unbiased]

Zetsu said something similar too.

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/388/15

That's where I got it from lol

[Unbiased]

Well, I also wasnt comparing characters in my post, only ocular powers.

Well to each his own. At least you didn't flame me for it so +respect

[Blaze Release]

Kakashi stated it was the oldest and greatest bloodline in the village.

That alone is hype enough. Where in the manga has it been stated that the Uchiha is the greatest bloodline in the village?

What kakashi said can be taken in two ways. He was either talking about presently because the uchiha/senju do not exist anymore. However if he meant overall then he is wrong. Because we know that the oldest and greatest bloodline in the village was the senju/uchiha.



"The strength of the village #1, the uchiha clan"

I can go on and on, however the hype the uchiha has gotten isn't from the ms user's. You prolly do not know the abilities of the 3 tomoe sharingan thats why

[lukasenko]

i would like to put the issue in a rather simple way. If the byakugan were stronge than the sharingan, then sasuke would have had a byakugan inated of his original eye.

Ur points are all forcefully linked together by pure assumptions and a little of sharingan dislike. Seriously, good job for ur effort, but you could have used it on some other things since ur arugment doesn't stand on ground

[Unbiased]

What kakashi said can be taken in two ways. He was either talking about presently because the uchiha/senju do not exist anymore. However if he meant overall then he is wrong. Because we know that the oldest and greatest bloodline in the village was the senju/uchiha.



"The strength of the village #1, the uchiha clan"

I can go on and on, however the hype the uchiha has gotten isn't from the ms user's. You prolly do not know the abilities of the 3 tomoe sharingan thats why

There's an obvious stalemate between us. We both have pages contradicting each other and can present facts for both sides. I'm not gonna argue any further in terms of Uchiha's and Hyuuga's being the greatest bloodline as the manga says both are. I don't argue mere assumptions but facts.

[Blaze Release]

There's an obvious stalemate between us. We both have pages contradicting each other and can present facts for both sides. I'm not gonna argue any further in terms of Uchiha's and Hyuuga's being the greatest bloodline as the manga says both are. I don't argue mere assumptions but facts.

But you see if you read the manga you'd note that the oldest clan/greatest clan in konoha were the uchiha/senju.
Oldest because those two started the village. Greatest because they were the strongest clans of all. When the creation of konoha was said to have started nothing was mentioned of the hyuga like the rest of the other clans. When the strongest clans were mentioned nothing was said about the hyuga like the other clans.

Tbh i dont believe anybody here knows the power wielded by 3 tomoe sharingan and i was to take my time and educate you it would take too long. Believe me when i say 3 tomoe sharingan > byakugan

[thegame]

I see your not a troll so thanks.

1-Susanoo. They're two options. One is to disperse the technique by finding its weak spot(like neji did to the wate prison) and 2 is to simply cut through it. Now the 2nd option is where people get a WTF like face and say "that's impossible". I'll use neji as an example. Neji VS kidimaro showed us one thing. Neji's Tenketsu skills can cut through anything. Kidimaro stated that the thread was unbreakable and Sasuke managed to burn it away using the strongest offensive ninjutsu attack known as amaterasu. (kabuto stated it was the strongest offense). Therefore since it took the greatest offensive ninjutsu attack to cut through the web, it tells us that the tenketsu jutsu is also on par if not stronger then amaterasu verifying that tenketsu's can slice through susanoo. Susanoo is not a perfect defense and can be destroyed, however that thread has never been cut and required the strongest ninjutsu to burn.

Summary for susanoo-Tenketsu can cut through it as tenketsu has been shown cutting through an unbreakable substance.

Your definitely right about the Itachi being able to place a genjutsu. But the argument falls apart for 2 reasons.

1-Genjutsu's disrupt your chakra, if the hyuuga is using heavenly rotation(were obviously talking about main branch) then the genjutsu cannot enter the chakra system as the openings are being excreted with chakra.
2-The byakugan allows the user to see in 360 degrees with one small weak point. They can still close their eyes and see as their Dojutsu allows for that to happen. I know a lot of people would say "well the byakugan won't work if they can't see." Does a dojutsu stop working if eyesight is prohibited? Danzo could use his sharingan while it was covered up, the rinnegan is still active if nagatos eyes are closed. So closing your eyes would not stop the byakugan from working. I hope this information helped you.

Regarding Kidimarous web, I think the reason Neji cut it, was because he could see its weak points, which the sharingan can't. So that does indeed mean it can see Susanoo as well, however, comparing Susanoo to that spider web, is not very realistic, since Susanoo can actually move.

Hmm, well it only makes sense that a closed byakugan has almost same vision, since that is how it works. But I don't think the 360 degree vision counts to see through objects. As I understand it, it is comparable to Kenichis Seikuken (if you read historys strongest disciple?). Anyway it allows him to complete cover a given area around him, and avoid any attacks that enters his seikuken. At least with the spin that is. It is pretty obvious that the 360 degrees vision only counts to this area around him, and not through many obstacles, since that requires a certain focus from the byakugan.

Anyway you made it a bit clearer. But I think we can both agree that the winner of an uchiha vs huyga will simply be the 'faster' one, since in the end, if the Uchiha has the speed to dodge the Huygas attacks he will most likely win. And if the Huyga got the speed to hit the Uchiha, he will most likely win.

But then again, the problem is that the few 'strong' Uchihas we know are very superior to the strong Huyga we know. Taking Itachi for instance, I doubt there has ever been a Huyga that would get anywhere near matching him. Same goes for Sasuke, Madara, etc.. I mean the heavenly rotation probably wont deflect a tailed beast bomb or a slash from perfect susanoo.

And would Neji even be fast enough to use a jutsu against Sasukes arrow? It isn't a ninjutsu, so there will be no change in the chakra he is already using. The arrow just needs to be in position, and Sasuke needs to wait for the right moment, when he uses it. Kidoumarous arrow is a good example I guess. Sasuke could work out the same strategy, and his is probably faster and stronger.

[Darth Wignus]

I agree that the Byakugan is way up there in combat effectiveness. If your whole goal is to fight affiliate to be a great taijutsu user then there isnt a better on to have.

[thegame]

What kakashi said can be taken in two ways. He was either talking about presently because the uchiha/senju do not exist anymore. However if he meant overall then he is wrong. Because we know that the oldest and greatest bloodline in the village was the senju/uchiha.



"The strength of the village #1, the uchiha clan"

I can go on and on, however the hype the uchiha has gotten isn't from the ms user's. You prolly do not know the abilities of the 3 tomoe sharingan thats why

Being the number 1 clan just means it has the strongest shinobi (or had?), but the Senju was obviously stronger, but probably no senju were left in the village at that time, given that Tsunade had sort of left.

[Unbiased]

But you see if you read the manga you'd note that the oldest clan/greatest clan in konoha were the uchiha/senju.
Oldest because those two started the village. Greatest because they were the strongest clans of all. When the creation of konoha was said to have started nothing was mentioned of the hyuga like the rest of the other clans. When the strongest clans were mentioned nothing was said about the hyuga like the other clans.

Tbh i dont believe anybody here knows the power wielded by 3 tomoe sharingan and i was to take my time and educate you it would take too long. Believe me when i say 3 tomoe sharingan > byakugan

The Hyuuga have been stated to have the greatest bloodline however in newer chapters its been stated that the senju and uchiha were the strongest. I understand your position and where your coming from but I seriously don't like to argue against the manga nor would I try to force X > Y even though its been said that X < Y.

Regarding Kidimarous web, I think the reason Neji cut it, was because he could see its weak points, which the sharingan can't. So that does indeed mean it can see Susanoo as well, however, comparing Susanoo to that spider web, is not very realistic, since Susanoo can actually move.

Hmm, well it only makes sense that a closed byakugan has almost same vision, since that is how it works. But I don't think the 360 degree vision counts to see through objects. As I understand it, it is comparable to Kenichis Seikuken (if you read historys strongest disciple?). Anyway it allows him to complete cover a given area around him, and avoid any attacks that enters his seikuken. At least with the spin that is. It is pretty obvious that the 360 degrees vision only counts to this area around him, and not through many obstacles, since that requires a certain focus from the byakugan.

Anyway you made it a bit clearer. But I think we can both agree that the winner of an uchiha vs huyga will simply be the 'faster' one, since in the end, if the Uchiha has the speed to dodge the Huygas attacks he will most likely win. And if the Huyga got the speed to hit the Uchiha, he will most likely win.

But then again, the problem is that the few 'strong' Uchihas we know are very superior to the strong Huyga we know. Taking Itachi for instance, I doubt there has ever been a Huyga that would get anywhere near matching him. Same goes for Sasuke, Madara, etc.. I mean the heavenly rotation probably wont deflect a tailed beast bomb or a slash from perfect susanoo.

And would Neji even be fast enough to use a jutsu against Sasukes arrow? It isn't a ninjutsu, so there will be no change in the chakra he is already using. The arrow just needs to be in position, and Sasuke needs to wait for the right moment, when he uses it. Kidoumarous arrow is a good example I guess. Sasuke could work out the same strategy, and his is probably faster and stronger.

Your correct in stating that no hyuuga alive could do the things with the byakugan that I mentioned are possible. I can't speak for the head of the clan due to the lack of battle time(so that's an open variable) but no its impossible to heavenly rotation and survive a TBB or slash from PS. For the bolded part I was comparing them in terms of durability not in terms of combat effectiveness.

I agree that the Byakugan is way up there in combat effectiveness. If your whole goal is to fight affiliate to be a great taijutsu user then there isnt a better on to have.

Thank you for your agreement.

[★OnPoint]

Your argument is flawed since you only really presented theoretical counters (to the Mangekyō Sharingan techniques), not ones which would work in practice. For example, you say that Neji could defend against the Susano'o arrows or Amaterasu with Hakkeshō Kaiten, yet it remains that Neji wouldn't be able to react fast enough to a sudden dose of either one of these techniques. Further, you're either severely overrating the Hyūga or underrating Perfect Susano'o by a good amount when you describe the sword slash as 'childs play'. I can assure you that Madara would babyshake any Hyūga member if that blade was to ever be brought into play - the speed of the swing and size of the AoE wouldn't allow for someone to just jump out of the way. Good effort, but I think you're overestimating the Byakugan's capabilities.

[Unbiased]

Being the number 1 clan just means it has the strongest shinobi (or had?), but the Senju was obviously stronger, but probably no senju were left in the village at that time, given that Tsunade had sort of left.

Tsunade didn't defect but she did leave the village. Like I said though I don't want to argue against the manga. Its meant to be used as a tool to show what's right and wrong in the series. If there's a contradiction its not my place to say what's right. Only kishimoto can clarify on the situation.