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  1. #301
    Senior Member Unbiased's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Noddy View Post
    Your argument is flawed since you only really presented theoretical counters (to the Mangekyō Sharingan techniques), not ones which would work in practice. For example, you say that Neji could defend against the Susano'o arrows or Amaterasu with Hakkeshō Kaiten, yet it remains that Neji wouldn't be able to react fast enough to a sudden dose of either one of these techniques. Further, you're either severely overrating the Hyūga or underrating Perfect Susano'o by a good amount when you describe the sword slash as 'childs play'. I can assure you that Madara would babyshake any Hyūga member if that blade was to ever be brought into play - the speed of the swing and size of the AoE wouldn't allow for someone to just jump out of the way. Good effort, but I think you're overestimating the Byakugan's capabilities.
    I'll respond to the bolded parts first then to your post in general.


    1st bold-I use neji as an example. I don't mean neji can literally do these things as the thread was not intended to be a vs thread but a comparison of why the byakugan can counter and is superior to the sharingan.

    2nd bold-The byakugan grants the user the ability to sense an opponents attacks. In the right hands the user could dodge the sword slash but currently I doubt any living members could do so. (Maybe hiashi but that's speculation due to the fact that we have not seen enough combat with him)

    Overall this is a thread detailing why the byakugan is greater then the sharingan not this use who uses a byakugan > this sharingan user.
     
         

  2. #302
    Senior Member thegame's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    Your correct in stating that no hyuuga alive could do the things with the byakugan that I mentioned are possible. I can't speak for the head of the clan due to the lack of battle time(so that's an open variable) but no its impossible to heavenly rotation and survive a TBB or slash from PS. For the bolded part I was comparing them in terms of durability not in terms of combat effectiveness.
    Yeah that was also my impression, which is why I said in my initial reply that I agree, but comparing them in 1 vs 1 fight is just silly and unrealistic. Especially because this is Naruto manga, and these 1 vs 1 battles rarely occur. The only time we saw it was in the chunin exam and Sasuke retrieval arc. Ofc there was Sasuke vs Deidara. Not sure that Pain can be called a single opponent, but nonetheless, my point is that 1 vs 1 battles rarely occur, but yet people keep comparing this way, and in general I usually think that no good conclusions can be reached this way.

    If we have 5 shinobi vs 5 shinobi, we say 4 of them are equal in each team, and the last member in each team is a standard Huyga and a standard Uchiha - no MS. I would definitely say that the Byakugan would make the difference here.
     
         

  3. #303
    Senior Member Unbiased's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    Yeah that was also my impression, which is why I said in my initial reply that I agree, but comparing them in 1 vs 1 fight is just silly and unrealistic. Especially because this is Naruto manga, and these 1 vs 1 battles rarely occur. The only time we saw it was in the chunin exam and Sasuke retrieval arc. Ofc there was Sasuke vs Deidara. Not sure that Pain can be called a single opponent, but nonetheless, my point is that 1 vs 1 battles rarely occur, but yet people keep comparing this way, and in general I usually think that no good conclusions can be reached this way.

    If we have 5 shinobi vs 5 shinobi, we say 4 of them are equal in each team, and the last member in each team is a standard Huyga and a standard Uchiha - no MS. I would definitely say that the Byakugan would make the difference here.
    In that scenario yes, only due to the reason that the byakugans abilities to benefit the team as a whole are far superior to that of the normal 3 tomoe sharingan.
     
         

  4. #304
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    I'll respond to the bolded parts first then to your post in general.

    1st bold-I use neji as an example. I don't mean neji can literally do these things as the thread was not intended to be a vs thread but a comparison of why the byakugan can counter and is superior to the sharingan.

    2nd bold-The byakugan grants the user the ability to sense an opponents attacks. In the right hands the user could dodge the sword slash but currently I doubt any living members could do so. (Maybe hiashi but that's speculation due to the fact that we have not seen enough combat with him)

    Overall this is a thread detailing why the byakugan is greater then the sharingan not this use who uses a byakugan > this sharingan user.
    But similarly, you could very easily formulate (on paper) a set of counters the Sharingan (and its variations) can use against the Byakugan. In actuality, the former (at least the MS & EMS) provides the user with far more perks and overall versatility in combat, and is surely the superior of the two.

    There aren't any Hyūga members capable of using the Byakugan to the degree where they're going to stand their own against the Perfect Susano'o, dead or alive (from what we know).

    Ah but see, the Dōjutsu really is only as good as the person who wields it. So you can't really give a complete analysis without referencing how both sets of Dōjutsu are used in battle by a particular person. They both offer different benefits, yet some people use and distribute their power more efficiently than others - something which actually influences how good the particular Dōjutsu is. Unless you're taking a general standard for both eyes, in which case you'd still need to choose a shinobi as the benchmark.
     
         
    Last edited by OnPoint; 12-02-2012 at 12:12 PM.

  5. #305
    Rising T Bogard's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

     
         

  6. #306
    Senior Member Unbiased's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Noddy View Post
    But similarly, you could very easily formulate (on paper) a set of counters the Sharingan (and its variations) can use against the Byakugan. In actuality, the former (at least the MS & EMS) provides the user with far more perks and overall versatility in combat, and is surely the superior of the two.

    There aren't any Hyūga members capable of using the Byakugan to the degree where they're going to stand their own against the Perfect Susano'o, dead or alive (from what we know).

    Ah but see, the Dōjutsu really is only as good as the person who wields it. So you can't really give a complete analysis without referencing how both sets of Dōjutsu are used in battle by a particular person. They both offer different benefits, yet some people use and distribute their power more efficiently than others - something which actually influences how good the particular Dōjutsu is. Unless you're taking a general standard for both eyes, in which case you'd still need to choose a shinobi as the benchmark.
    I agree. We can't base anything factual here in terms of utilizing characters. The only thing we can do is debate on which dojutsu is superior to the other. While it is true I have not listed anything offensively the byakugan is capable of(besides gentle fist, tenketsu, air palm) I have displayed the abilities it provides can counter the techniques of the EMS, MS, and 3 Tomoe.
     
         

  7. #307
    Turnt up king on NB. Prince Charles's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    I dont agree.

    No the manga itself doesnt agree with you, no need to explain my reasoning.
     
         

  8. #308
    Karasu Blaze Release's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by History View Post
    im done neji could simply cut in susanno it has no weakness unless you just broke it neji sensing is better than karin LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO because his sensing did so well against this thread should be named neji> sasuke itachi obito kakashi madara

    counter to kamui he isnt dodging and if he is what speed feats prove this

    counters to perfect susanoo?
    Going through the threads it seems my name has been called for various reasons by hyuga fans. It actually funny because if im shaking with excitement, fact that they believe the byakugan > 3 tomoe sharingan. Anyway if neji had the sharingan he would be able to do evade naruto's attack like what itachi did :P;



    Anyway i got statistics to revise for.
    However what i will leave you with is this;
    Ability to see through all the 3 basic forms of ninja art
    Ability to copy all the 3 forms of ninja art
    Precognition ability with helps with speed/taijutsu/handseals
    Ability to deliver 3 forms genjutsu; Hypnosis (put people to sleep) or control them and this form can go as far as controlling summons. Basic genjutsu. Kanashibari (paralysis) genjutsu. When these forms of genjutsu has gotten the better of anbu/summons and kage level ninja's
    See chakra
    Ability to use izanami/izanagi

    ^ This is just top of my head without any manga scan which would make it look more impressive. But an old DB page might help you guys;





    Im rushing my post because there really isnt much to talk about. The 3 tomoe sharingan is a superior tool than the byakugan. If perhaps i saw that the byakugan could keep pace i might take my time and fully explain everything but there is not much to argue about.

    Did i forget that orochimaru's fushi tensei failed before the sharingan, put neji there and orochimaru wouldve had a new container LMFAO
     
         
    Last edited by Blaze Release; 12-02-2012 at 12:29 PM.

  9. #309
    The Legendary Devil Hunter Minator93's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Dude Please!

    Sharingan can go to Mangekyo then the Eternal. Its above Byakugan Period .

    1. EMS Madara can SOLO Hyuga Clan
    2. MS Obito can SOLO Hyuga Clan
     
         

  10. #310
    Member SEEDLESS's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    some points are good. but not all are facts. it's your opinion and not fact. like hinata was beaten by pain. she used gentle fist and the almost 360 byakugan.

    good effort though
     
         

  11. #311
    Senior Member Unbiased's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze Release View Post
    Going through the threads it seems my name has been called for various reasons by hyuga fans. It actually funny because if im shaking with excitement, fact that they believe the byakugan > 3 tomoe sharingan. Anyway if neji had the sharingan he would be able to do evade naruto's attack like what itachi did :P;



    Anyway i got statistics to revise for.
    However what i will leave you with is this;
    Ability to see through all the 3 basic forms of ninja art
    Ability to copy all the 3 forms of ninja art
    Precognition ability with helps with speed/taijutsu/handseals
    Ability to deliver 3 forms genjutsu; Hypnosis (put people to sleep) or control them and this form can go as far as controlling summons. Basic genjutsu. Kanashibari (paralysis) genjutsu. When these forms of genjutsu has gotten the better of anbu/summons and kage level ninja's
    See chakra
    Ability to use izanami/izanagi

    ^ This is just top of my head without any manga scan which would make it look more impressive. But an old DB page might help you guys;





    Im rushing my post because there really isnt much to talk about. The 3 tomoe sharingan is a superior tool than the byakugan. If perhaps i saw that the byakugan could keep pace i might take my time and fully explain everything but there is not much to argue about.

    Did i forget that orochimaru's fushi tensei failed before the sharingan, put neji there and orochimaru wouldve had a new container LMFAO
    Ability to see through all the 3 basic forms of ninja art
    Ability to copy all the 3 forms of ninja art


    I don't really see how that counters my argument or even opening statement as you just listed abilities nothing more. I do find it pathetic that your comparing itachi to neji while this thread is not about individuals but rather the dojutsu. If this was supposed to crash my thread you seriously failed.
     
         
    Last edited by Unbiased; 12-02-2012 at 12:44 PM.

  12. #312
    Member SEEDLESS's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    hyuga clan was said to be the strongest clan in the leaf village right after the uchiha was exterminated...
     
         

  13. #313
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Nope, so if itachi or madara had byakugan instead, they would be stronger?
     
         

  14. #314
    Senior Member Unbiased's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by yellowxflash View Post
    Nope, so if itachi or madara had byakugan instead, they would be stronger?
    This isn't a comparison of characters but mere dojutsu. Furthermore a tool is only as useful as the person wielding it.
     
         

  15. #315
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    Ability to see through all the 3 basic forms of ninja art
    Ability to copy all the 3 forms of ninja art


    I don't really see how that counters my argument or even opening statement as you just listed abilities nothing more. I do find it pathetic that your comparing itachi to neji while this thread is not about individuals but rather the dojutsu. If this was supposed to crash my thread you seriously failed.
    he is comparing neji because according to the manga neji has been the most prominent byakugan user. In addition, the guy clearly stated that the sharingan is on a whole other level. THe points in bold that you highlighted are some of the elements that put the sharingan in a whole other level. All ur points are coming up from just three to four techqnies that the huyga can use where as the sharingan mate is seriously at another level in terms of the justus arsenal that they use etc. Going with assumptions won't bring us anywhere so let me phrase it like this.

    Taijutsu - both clans are very skilled. Nevertheless we know that the sharingan can predict movements, can see through taijutsu attacks. Gentle fist - countered.

    Ninjutus - really, there is no need to compare ninjutsu between the two clans. But something really important about the uchiha- 1.forbidden jutsu, 2. copy jutsu

    Genjutsu - again, no basis of argument here as huyga don't have genjutsu as far as we know. I mean, uchiha can cast gen from their fingers...

    You might say that you were comparing the eyes and not the clans, but all of these techniques come from the eyes...

    edit: if you would have used ur effort to compare the rinnegan and the sharingan then maybe there would have been some ground for good debate, but this mate, seriously is like pretending to run while you are day dreaming on the couch
     
         
    Last edited by lukasenko; 12-02-2012 at 01:06 PM.

  16. #316
    Rising T Bogard's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    I believe the Byakugan, Hyuga clan and particularly their leader(Hiashi) is greatly underrated. People think that it was stated that Neji was the strongest in the Hyuga clan, but can someone show me the mangapage where it was stated? All what i know is that he was recognised as a great genius even among Hyugas, said by Hiaishi himself
    Hiashi only said he was a genius and that he could probably surpass the main family members themselves in the future because he saw his great talent, but he never stated it was the case so far i know.

    If you compare their rotation for example, Hiashi's is clearly on a whole other level

    This was Neji's range at the Chunin exam:

    And it doesn't seem to have increase that much when he was fighting himself:

    But look at Hiashi's range in comparison. The difference is incredible and clearly visible:
    Also, notice that he defeated more than 20shinobis on this pic with that move alone

    It also seems that his Byakugan is powerful enough to detect killing intent even when he is careless(since he is training with Hinata on this pic):

    Like Neji explains to Naruto, Hiaishi was able to defeat the Cloud leader with relativ ease and save Hinata:


    I believe there is more to know concerning Byakugan that we doesn't even know. Remember that Byakugan is what helped Konoha to win his conflicts against Kumo. It's the reason why they wanted to take the Byakugan that much

    Kishimoto never really wanted to show us Hyuga's true power. I believe it's on purpose that he even needed Hiashi away from the village during the Pain's attack

    That's why he consider Hyuga clan as the strongest in the leaf:

     
         
    Last edited by T Bogard; 12-02-2012 at 01:12 PM.

  17. #317
    Karasu Blaze Release's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    Ability to see through all the 3 basic forms of ninja art
    Ability to copy all the 3 forms of ninja art


    I don't really see how that counters my argument or even opening statement as you just listed abilities nothing more. I do find it pathetic that your comparing itachi to neji while this thread is not about individuals but rather the dojutsu. If this was supposed to crash my thread you seriously failed.
    OP your thread itself is a failure and the reason why im giving it my bare minimum is because it isn't worth it. The 3 tomoe sharingan is a better tool to have even we were to exclude its users and look only at the abilities they wield you'd see why. Its these abilities that gave birth to the uchiha's ridiculous hype and NOT the ms. If you guys do not read the manga and fully understand it, i see no reason to educate you.

    Ive noticed that when a character or group of people are left out by kishi or trolled and due to this are underrated, people start to show these character's/group some love and i do that as well. However it gets ridiculous when people start to overrate them. Anyway ive more important things to do. Your thread wasnt impressive at all and you can say the same about my post. However poor thread deserves poor post
     
         
    Last edited by Blaze Release; 12-02-2012 at 01:12 PM.

  18. #318
    Senior Member Unbiased's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze Release View Post
    OP your thread itself is a failure and the reason why im giving it my bare minimum is because it isn't worth it. The 3 tomoe sharingan is a better tool to have even we were to exclude its users and look only at the abilities they wield you'd see why. Its these abilities that gave birth to the uchiha's ridiculous hype and NOT the ms. If you guys do not read the manga and fully understand it, i see no reason to educate you.

    Ive noticded that when a character or group of people are left out my kishi or trolled and due to this are underrated, people start to show these character's/group some love and i do that as well. However it gets ridiculous when people start to overrate them. Anyway ive more important things to do. Your thread wasnt impressive at all and you can say the same about my post. However poor thread deserves poor post
    I think Itachi would like to have a word with you. Don't lie and say the 3 tomoe sharingan is why it was feared. Itachi specifically stated that the uchiha clan was feared because of the true powers that sharingan masters have. I think its funny because your arguing against the manga while I use it as a tool to victory. The sad part of this is all those people hyped you up saying you could trash this thread, when you've only displayed your ability to lie.
     
         

  19. #319
    Karasu Blaze Release's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    So this guy thinks its the ms that gave birth to their ridiculous hype?.
    Meh this is too easy, ill leave now
     
         

  20. #320
    Senior Member Unbiased's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze Release View Post
    So this guy thinks its the ms that gave birth to their ridiculous hype?.
    Meh this is too easy, ill leave now
    I don't think so, Masashi Kishimoto the man who wrote the story does lol. Your a prime example of people who say their word > the manga. Later troll.
     
         
    Last edited by Unbiased; 12-02-2012 at 01:25 PM.

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