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  1. #161
    Senior Member Unbiased's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Microsword57 View Post
    A. Amaterasu
    Your arguments were not strong enough to persuade. Once you reach the Mangekyou Techniques your answer to every single power was this[1]. Once you obtained this Manga panel every single one of your arguments became to "Dodge." Your argument for Amaterasu was:
    I want to first talk about TenTen's statement. Tenten was explaining the greatest of Neji Hyuga's abilities in reference to Taijutsu. Your taking what she says out of content and are directing it toward a entire different echelon of attacking, Ninjutsu. Which I will not say is unfair to do but it's weak when attacking Amaterasu with. You said that Amaterasu creates a pressure in the air. This is not true. Amaterasu does create a pressure but the pressure is not in the air the pressure is more of a bad feeling. Which is one of the reasons why Sage Mode Naruto can sense it's malice. Your statement that "even someone without the insight of the byakugon like nagato could sense it" bothers me. Your implying Nagato's senses are not very high because he does not poessess a Byakugon which is incorrect seeing as he could find Kabuto's exact location for Itachi as far as they were from him by sensing his Chakra.

    Now in response to your implication that Neji could sense Amaterasu and dodge it you must realize while this could be possible it's not because Neji is ignorant to Amaterasu. Neji has no knowledge of how it is executed he could not dodge it. The bleeding from the eye of an Uchiha would hint to Amaterasu being an Eye Jutsu but upon use Amaterasu Ignites where the User is looking and would incinerate Neji. Even with knowledge Neji would not be capable. What applies to the Sharingan applies to the Byakugon. If Neji's body is not capable of dodging Amaterasu he will not dodge it no matter what his eyes can see. Sharingan itself has counters to being sensed as well. The pressure of Amaterasu comes during the time of the eye bleeding[1]. Once released you know the attack will land where they are looking and usually that is after the bleed, but Amaterasu can be stalled.
    Itachi was not required to restart the prep process[1].
    You then begin to compare Neji's full body blow Technique to Shinra Tensei. These two Techniques work on two completely different mechanics. We know that Amaterasu can engulf chakra and turn it into ashes.
    The Chakra that Neji is pushing through every pore of his body would work as fuel for the flames to burn. The Chakra Neji pushes off would causes the flames to increase in size because the flames adapt to it's target. The more the flames have to burn the larger the flames get[1]. It was released as a disk but once it made contact swallowed the entire body of Zetsu.The flames would not be pushed off. The reason Shinra Tensei can push the flames off is because Shinra Tensei is based around gravity which has no physical entity. Without a physical state the flames have nothing to burn and will thus be pushed and disappear. Now there is also a difference between just igniting Amaterasu from a simple glance and focusing the Amaterasu. Itachi used the Amaterasu on the Dogs and the flames was not great enough to swallow the entire being[1]. With a Focused Amaterasu the flames with be much greater in size and burning potential being a greater flames.
    Focused flames also ignite more than once.
    Notice the flames ignite 3 times. The flames only travel when the head is turning and the eye is still for example in the picture where Itachi is slowly trying to hit the wing of Sasuke. In life it would be like me slowly turning my head rather than moving my eyes.

    B.Tsukuyomi
    Your Argument for Tsukuyomi is here:

    Your two points on how the Byakugon could counter the the Tsukuyomi were tainted. While Tsukuyomi is a Genjutsu to compare it to a normal Genjutsu is inaccurate. You stated that Neji could close his eyes and use his Byakugon Vision to be his new eyes because he has a 359 degree Vision automatically. In this sense Neji would still be able to see Itachi's eyes and would be placed under a Genjutsu. It is not the same situation as when Kabuto did this because Kabuto used his Snakes and Sage Powers to see attacks coming. He was essential fighting blind completely. Jiraiya's method of disrupting one's own chakra failed in the eyes of Itachi Ephemeral. Naruto attempted that route and it failed.

    Naruto was finally release through others(Sakura and Chiyo) releasing him[1]. This was not even the power of his Tsukuyomi. Which has feats of coma's[1][2], and rumors of killing[1].

    C. Susanoo
    Your argument for Susanoo was:

    Your argument for Susanoo was not very strong. Your started off with stating some things about Susanoo to establish credibility and then spoke on how Susanoo is an unstable form of the User's Chakra. That is untrue. Susanoo is stable but Madara, possessing the greatest Sharingan and years of wisdom and training was capable of creating a more stabled form. Basically to change the appearance. Now you said that the Byakugon can see the chakra holding Susanoo together and disrupt it. The Chakra holding Susanoo together is the Chakra we see and the Chakra that is defending Sasuke. If a Byakugon User would want to shutdown the Susanoo they would need to make physical contact with the User and shutdown their chakra system[1]. While only a slight touch is necessary that touch can not be made with a full body defense such as Susanoo[1]. Contact cannot be made therefore Susanoo can not be destroyed.

    D. Susanoo Arrow
    Your Argument.
    In your argument here your comparing Kidomaru's Arrow from Part one with Susanoo's Arrows of part two. This is insulting to Susanoo arrow. They have many differences that you did not name for example the Susanoo Arrow has more chakra and the chakra is more concentrated. This make the penetrating power greater. You admitted that the Susanoo Arrow is much faster than the Arrow Kidomaru used and this is the most important part of Penetration, speed. Susanoo arrow has three greater aspects of penetration than Kidomaru's Arrow and Kidomaru's Arrow was on slightly redirect.

    This arrow was even before Kidomaru made his edits to the Arrow[1]. The momentum of a Susanoo Arrow has never slowed. The Aura of Chakra Neji used against Kidomaru would fail miserably against a Susanoo Arrow. To be honest they should have not been compared.

    E. Susanoo Sword
    Your Argument.


    TenTen said that back then Gaara's defense was inferior to Neji and that is simply just TenTen's personal opinion on the matter. TenTen's hype is not something to be taken as fact. Even so the gaara spoken about back then is long gone his defense has increase so far that he has rose to the rank of Kazekage. His defense could not even be breached by Kimimaro's strongest bone attack in curse mark 2 form.

    The feats of Gaara after the Chunin exams even before Shippuden towers over those of Neji's. Which means do not credit Neji's abilities with feats from Gaara's based of an outdated bias comment from TenTen.

    F. Kotomatsukami
    Your Argument.
    Kotoamatsukami- This is The most powerful genjutsu to ever be conceived in naruto. The Byakugan is already immune to genjutsu since they can see chakra flow. Due to the fact that this is not a genjutsu that causes a illusion and merely controls your thoughts, in terms of combat effectiveness against a hyuuga its scale of effectiveness is lower then the Tsukuyomi. Now since the Hyuuga can see their chakra flow as well as others they can disrupt the genjutsu without trouble. The byakugan have been stated to see a genjutsu that is similar to KA
    and the byakugan broke that genjutsu of near identical power.

    The difference is the Jutsu was placed on someone other than themselves. The Jutsu can not be broken as easily as your implying because the Jutsu specializes in being in disguise. It alters your memories and forces you to believe it's true. A Jutsu like this could not be discovered in oneself but by others.

    G. Kamui
    I am not sure if you actually countered Kamui.
    Sorry I did not have time to finish the last bit you had....
    Amaterasu-While it is true the chakra provides room for the amaterasu to spread and burn, it can also be dissipated easily by the user. Thus no room for amaterasu to burn and no one is on fire.

    Tsukuyomi- The jutsu requires direct eyesight. Sensing something and direct eyesight are two different things.

    Susanoo- I already stated that only Madara's is stabilized. Saying the others are stable is in direct contradiction to the manga. Furthermore against kidimaro, kidimaro stated his chakra could not be cut by normal means(as seen when he tried to cut it with kunai) yet neji could cut it. He could simply cut into susanoo.

    I already stated that he would need rotation to redirect the arrow.

    The sword is still true to its word. Sand will not change its form and density yet it still blocks it. Neji's defense was compared to sand and sand never changes.

    KA- The Byakugan users can see their chakra flow therefore can discover the jutsu.
     
         

  2. #162
    Member Fighter2011's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    He could simply cut into susanoo???? This must be a joke lol. Im out of here
     
         

  3. #163
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighter2011 View Post
    Yeah, you know what? You can think whatever you want. Just know that your thoughts are so stupid that people moght actually think that you are high when you say them. Counter my arguments like its supposed to be in an debate, or gtfo with your pathetic insults.

    Get this through your head: I DONT CARE.

    Only logical people are accepted in here, not people with absolutely no knowledge on the subject.
     
         

  4. #164
    Senior Member Unbiased's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by History View Post
    1
    burned his ration armor clean off.
    2 it doesnt matter what he used kidomaro arrow hit him susanoo arrow is faster bigger in stronger .

    3 he isnt dodging kamui so how does he get out of it unless your saying he faster than the ms sight?
    counter to ps i need a great laff

    4 so karin can dodge eveything with sensing things right also how would he know whats coming when he doesnt no ms tech and chakra flow is contant thru the sharingan in rotation takes time here > susanoo arrows blows clean thru that shiiiiit

    also please what does neji do if sasuke jumps at him like this with blaze release on it
    1-Raiton wasn't even active when he chopped off his arm.
    2-Chakra rotation would redirect it.
    3-He can sense his opponents attacks. That's already a counter.
    4-Your comparing the byakugan to a normal individual's sensing lol good try.
    5-rotation-disperse chakra as amaterasu would get bigger-air palm
     
         

  5. #165
    Member Fighter2011's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by fastrthnwind View Post
    Get this through your head: I DONT CARE.

    Only logical people are accepted in here, not people with absolutely no knowledge on the subject.
    Arguments boy, bring some arguments, you have given none.
     
         

  6. #166
    Member DESTRUCTO's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Microsword57 View Post
    A. Amaterasu
    Your arguments were not strong enough to persuade. Once you reach the Mangekyou Techniques your answer to every single power was this[1]. Once you obtained this Manga panel every single one of your arguments became to "Dodge." Your argument for Amaterasu was:
    I want to first talk about TenTen's statement. Tenten was explaining the greatest of Neji Hyuga's abilities in reference to Taijutsu. Your taking what she says out of content and are directing it toward a entire different echelon of attacking, Ninjutsu. Which I will not say is unfair to do but it's weak when attacking Amaterasu with. You said that Amaterasu creates a pressure in the air. This is not true. Amaterasu does create a pressure but the pressure is not in the air the pressure is more of a bad feeling. Which is one of the reasons why Sage Mode Naruto can sense it's malice. Your statement that "even someone without the insight of the byakugon like nagato could sense it" bothers me. Your implying Nagato's senses are not very high because he does not poessess a Byakugon which is incorrect seeing as he could find Kabuto's exact location for Itachi as far as they were from him by sensing his Chakra.

    Now in response to your implication that Neji could sense Amaterasu and dodge it you must realize while this could be possible it's not because Neji is ignorant to Amaterasu. Neji has no knowledge of how it is executed he could not dodge it. The bleeding from the eye of an Uchiha would hint to Amaterasu being an Eye Jutsu but upon use Amaterasu Ignites where the User is looking and would incinerate Neji. Even with knowledge Neji would not be capable. What applies to the Sharingan applies to the Byakugon. If Neji's body is not capable of dodging Amaterasu he will not dodge it no matter what his eyes can see. Sharingan itself has counters to being sensed as well. The pressure of Amaterasu comes during the time of the eye bleeding[1]. Once released you know the attack will land where they are looking and usually that is after the bleed, but Amaterasu can be stalled.
    Itachi was not required to restart the prep process[1].
    You then begin to compare Neji's full body blow Technique to Shinra Tensei. These two Techniques work on two completely different mechanics. We know that Amaterasu can engulf chakra and turn it into ashes.
    The Chakra that Neji is pushing through every pore of his body would work as fuel for the flames to burn. The Chakra Neji pushes off would causes the flames to increase in size because the flames adapt to it's target. The more the flames have to burn the larger the flames get[1]. It was released as a disk but once it made contact swallowed the entire body of Zetsu.The flames would not be pushed off. The reason Shinra Tensei can push the flames off is because Shinra Tensei is based around gravity which has no physical entity. Without a physical state the flames have nothing to burn and will thus be pushed and disappear. Now there is also a difference between just igniting Amaterasu from a simple glance and focusing the Amaterasu. Itachi used the Amaterasu on the Dogs and the flames was not great enough to swallow the entire being[1]. With a Focused Amaterasu the flames with be much greater in size and burning potential being a greater flames.
    Focused flames also ignite more than once.
    Notice the flames ignite 3 times. The flames only travel when the head is turning and the eye is still for example in the picture where Itachi is slowly trying to hit the wing of Sasuke. In life it would be like me slowly turning my head rather than moving my eyes.

    B.Tsukuyomi
    Your Argument for Tsukuyomi is here:

    Your two points on how the Byakugon could counter the the Tsukuyomi were tainted. While Tsukuyomi is a Genjutsu to compare it to a normal Genjutsu is inaccurate. You stated that Neji could close his eyes and use his Byakugon Vision to be his new eyes because he has a 359 degree Vision automatically. In this sense Neji would still be able to see Itachi's eyes and would be placed under a Genjutsu. It is not the same situation as when Kabuto did this because Kabuto used his Snakes and Sage Powers to see attacks coming. He was essential fighting blind completely. Jiraiya's method of disrupting one's own chakra failed in the eyes of Itachi Ephemeral. Naruto attempted that route and it failed.

    Naruto was finally release through others(Sakura and Chiyo) releasing him[1]. This was not even the power of his Tsukuyomi. Which has feats of coma's[1][2], and rumors of killing[1].

    C. Susanoo
    Your argument for Susanoo was:

    Your argument for Susanoo was not very strong. Your started off with stating some things about Susanoo to establish credibility and then spoke on how Susanoo is an unstable form of the User's Chakra. That is untrue. Susanoo is stable but Madara, possessing the greatest Sharingan and years of wisdom and training was capable of creating a more stabled form. Basically to change the appearance. Now you said that the Byakugon can see the chakra holding Susanoo together and disrupt it. The Chakra holding Susanoo together is the Chakra we see and the Chakra that is defending Sasuke. If a Byakugon User would want to shutdown the Susanoo they would need to make physical contact with the User and shutdown their chakra system[1]. While only a slight touch is necessary that touch can not be made with a full body defense such as Susanoo[1]. Contact cannot be made therefore Susanoo can not be destroyed.

    D. Susanoo Arrow
    Your Argument.
    In your argument here your comparing Kidomaru's Arrow from Part one with Susanoo's Arrows of part two. This is insulting to Susanoo arrow. They have many differences that you did not name for example the Susanoo Arrow has more chakra and the chakra is more concentrated. This make the penetrating power greater. You admitted that the Susanoo Arrow is much faster than the Arrow Kidomaru used and this is the most important part of Penetration, speed. Susanoo arrow has three greater aspects of penetration than Kidomaru's Arrow and Kidomaru's Arrow was on slightly redirect.

    This arrow was even before Kidomaru made his edits to the Arrow[1]. The momentum of a Susanoo Arrow has never slowed. The Aura of Chakra Neji used against Kidomaru would fail miserably against a Susanoo Arrow. To be honest they should have not been compared.

    E. Susanoo Sword
    Your Argument.


    TenTen said that back then Gaara's defense was inferior to Neji and that is simply just TenTen's personal opinion on the matter. TenTen's hype is not something to be taken as fact. Even so the gaara spoken about back then is long gone his defense has increase so far that he has rose to the rank of Kazekage. His defense could not even be breached by Kimimaro's strongest bone attack in curse mark 2 form.

    The feats of Gaara after the Chunin exams even before Shippuden towers over those of Neji's. Which means do not credit Neji's abilities with feats from Gaara's based of an outdated bias comment from TenTen.

    F. Kotomatsukami
    Your Argument.
    Kotoamatsukami- This is The most powerful genjutsu to ever be conceived in naruto. The Byakugan is already immune to genjutsu since they can see chakra flow. Due to the fact that this is not a genjutsu that causes a illusion and merely controls your thoughts, in terms of combat effectiveness against a hyuuga its scale of effectiveness is lower then the Tsukuyomi. Now since the Hyuuga can see their chakra flow as well as others they can disrupt the genjutsu without trouble. The byakugan have been stated to see a genjutsu that is similar to KA
    and the byakugan broke that genjutsu of near identical power.

    The difference is the Jutsu was placed on someone other than themselves. The Jutsu can not be broken as easily as your implying because the Jutsu specializes in being in disguise. It alters your memories and forces you to believe it's true. A Jutsu like this could not be discovered in oneself but by others.

    G. Kamui
    I am not sure if you actually countered Kamui.
    Sorry I did not have time to finish the last bit you had....
    Well put brother, best argument so far. as for tsukiyomi and direct eye sight. When the byakugan is activated their vision changes, they see the flow of chakra in the body and and the sharingan as it it is normally seen also appears different. Does the genjutsu still work if their is not direct eye contact with the retina? There really is no proof in either direction.
     
         
    Last edited by DESTRUCTO; 12-02-2012 at 07:22 AM.

  7. #167
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighter2011 View Post
    He could simply cut into susanoo???? This must be a joke lol. Im out of here
    Quote Originally Posted by Fighter2011 View Post
    Arguments boy, bring some arguments, you have given none.
    You just said your outta here but your still here. My attractive body must of kept you here . Also its stated here the web is unbreakable yet Neji broke it. We have seen that even susanoo is breakable therefore Neji can break it.
     
         

  8. #168
    Mr.BlackUchiha BlackDude's Avatar
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    You haven't displayed any sort of understanding for the byakugan so I can definitely come up with this question.
    I dont need to display anything..Its pointless to even post in a thread like to many people , and too many opinions . But , Byakugan isnt the second strongest dojustu. I'm gonna leave it at that
     
         

  9. #169
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    It is clearly breakable when neji was able to break it lol. And please, are you seriously comparing that web, to Susanoo, whose ribcage version stoped Kirin? A jutsu that is much more powerful than what any hyuuga could hope to achieve without a major power-up?
     
         

  10. #170
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighter2011 View Post
    It is clearly breakable when neji was able to break it lol. And please, are you seriously comparing that web, to Susanoo, whose ribcage version stoped Kirin? A jutsu that is much more powerful than what any hyuuga could hope to achieve without a major power-up?
    I am, as no where is it stated susanoo is unbreakable yet this web has been stated to be unbreakable. Therefore the one who can break that thread can break susanoo.
     
         

  11. #171
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Im in my cell phone, it is too slow and unconfortable to look for manga pages and paste them here, thats why im not posting any.
     
         

  12. #172
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighter2011 View Post
    Im in my cell phone, it is too slow and unconfortable to look for manga pages and paste them here, thats why im not posting any.
    That's fine dude, I used to do that back before I built my computer. Its hard getting them and having multiple tabs open without the phone crashing lol
     
         

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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased View Post
    I am, as no where is it stated susanoo is unbreakable yet this web has been stated to be unbreakable. Therefore the one who can break that thread can break susanoo.
    It was said to be unbreakable by its own user lol. Clearly goving hype that it doesnt deserve since it was cut by a weak Technique from a genin.

    Susanoo is, as far as we have seen, the nearest thing to unbreakable in the naruto verse.
     
         

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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighter2011 View Post
    It was said to be unbreakable by its own user lol. Clearly goving hype that it doesnt deserve since it was cut by a weak Technique from a genin.

    Susanoo is, as far as we have seen, the nearest thing to unbreakable in the naruto verse.
    It was said to be unbreakable by Masashi Kishimoto he is the one who writes the dialog. Furthermore Jyuutsu or whatever that technique's proper spelling is cut it. Therefore it can cut anything. Susanoo is unbreakable? Tsunade, Danzo, Raikage, Mei ect have all broken it.
     
         

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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    You can't take every line you read in the manga as it is 100% true, specially if it.comest from A vharacter like kidoumaru, lol.

    Kabuto stated that edo tensei had no weakness, we all know it actually does.
    Konan stated that Nagato/pain was invinsible, yet he was defeated (twice)
    zetsu stated tbat itachi is invinsible While using susanoo, yet we all know he isnt.
     
         

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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighter2011 View Post
    You can't take every line you read in the manga as it is 100% true, specially if it.comest from A vharacter like kidoumaru, lol.

    Kabuto stated that edo tensei had no weakness, we all know it actually does.
    Konan stated that Nagato/pain was invinsible, yet he was defeated (twice)
    zetsu stated tbat itachi is invinsible While using susanoo, yet we all know he isnt.
    Itachi has yet to be beaten with susanoo active...Also there's nothing disproving that web isn't unbreakable other then by Byakugans specific technique Jyuutsu. So only neji can cut that technique as of 12/2/2012 therefore he can cut other techniques such as susanoo.
     
         

  17. #177
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Nice thread. Concerning Kidoumaru's webs, just to add that Sasuke even currently admitted it wasn't possible to cut them and they have even Susanoo swords, but they prefered use Amaterasu

     
         

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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    And kishi writes the manga, but that does not mean that every character is gonna have the authors knowledge. Look at the examples i gave you in My previous post
     
         

  19. #179
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    im done neji could simply cut in susanno it has no weakness unless you just broke it neji sensing is better than karin LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO because his sensing did so well against this thread should be named neji> sasuke itachi obito kakashi madara

    counter to kamui he isnt dodging and if he is what speed feats prove this

    counters to perfect susanoo?
     
         

  20. #180
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    Re: (Facts and Manga pages) the Byakugan is the 2nd strongest dojutsu

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighter2011 View Post
    And kishi writes the manga, but that does not mean that every character is gonna have the authors knowledge. Look at the examples i gave you in My previous post
    That still doesn't disprove the threads...Not even EMS sasuke could cut them lol
     
         

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