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  1. #1
    Senior Member Tazzilla88's Avatar
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    Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    So it would seem that a thread in the discussion forum dissolved into Tsunade versus Hiruzen.
    Therefore I thought it best to quit playing around with the idea and address it adequately. Within the context of this fight, titles have no baring. (ex. Sannin, hokage, God of Shinobi, Professor, Slug Princess)

    We cannot reason on prime Hiruzen. However, what we can do for age is to increase the stamina possessed by Hiruzen. (though I feel as though he shouldn't necessarily need a stamina power up as it would seem through Tsunade's use of Creation Rebirth she has aged to a point similar to that of Hiruzen.
    )

    Therefore this fight will follow such rules
    Location: Training field
    Starting Distance: 40 meters
    Info: What would have been known by both characters at the time of Hiruzen's death.
    Handicaps: 2X stamina to Hiruzen
    Feats and accolades acceptable: Direct manga feats, and inference you can make based on things observed, and inference made with things observed with things said.
    Hype not allowed: Inferences made purely by word (ex. Tsunade's the reason Konoha won the Third Great Shinobi war, Hiruzen is the strongest of the 5 kages)
    Restrictions: Shiki Fujin -no one wins with that.
     
         
    Last edited by Tazzilla88; 12-03-2012 at 01:19 AM.

  2. #2
    Kaika Saisei 開花再生 Chatte's Avatar
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    Manga-wise, Tsunade.
     
         

  3. #3
    The Dark Knight El Batman's Avatar
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    Hiruzen would just use the reaper death seal and take Tsuande down with him. So there is no winner?
     
         

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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    I want to say Hiruzen but Tsunade is tough to take down (Byakugou).

    I say Tsunade wins.
     
         

  5. #5
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    Tsunade
     
         

  6. #6
    Senior Member Tazzilla88's Avatar
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    Quote Originally Posted by El Batman View Post
    Hiruzen would just use the reaper death seal and take Tsuande down with him. So there is no winner?
    Problem with your idea. The Reaper Death Seal requires that the Third firstly run towards Tsunade, Secondly engages Tsunade in taijutsu, and thirdly hold her long enough for the seal to do its work.


    Now let's analyze that. If he runs towards Tsunade. Because she uses shockwaves as way to attack she attack Hiruzen with a shockwave during his approach. Furthermore the shockwaves would unsettle his footing and leave him as a sitting duck.
    She uses shockwaves:


    Secondly, he would be hardpressed to attack her in terms of taijutsu as her reaction time seems to be the best of the current Gokage.
    Furthermore in a drunken state she's shown her ability to move with such hand speed that she could swipe Naruto's wallet whilst simultaneously attacking Naruto and accurately hitting his pressure points.


    Thirdly, to hold Tsunade is a bad idea as her natural strength is devasting.

    Point Being he wouldn't be able to pull of Shiki Fujin
     
         

  7. #7
    Disciple of Unorthodox Icelerate's Avatar
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    What can Hiruzen actually do to Tsunade without RDS? Even with that jutsu, it isn't a guarantee draw for Hiruzen since Katsuyu could still help Tsunade get rid of Hiruzen before Tsunade gets sealed away.

    Since you restricted that only jutsu as well as hype, Hiruzen is only left with an earth wall, shuriken jutsu, fire ball and Emna. I guess Hiruzen can camp in Emna but it seems silly that staff can tank multiple susanoo busting punches from Tsunade. Emna gets knocked out of commission and Hiruzen is forced to stick to long ranged combat using fire balls to wear Tsunade down.

    Too bad with Tsunade's durability and stamina feats, Hiruzen isn't outlasting Tsunade, prime or no prime. Still a Prime Hiruzen is bound to be faster than Tsunade so we can't overlook that critical fact.

    Tsunade wins with mid-high difficulty.
     
         

  8. #8
    Senior Member Tazzilla88's Avatar
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    Quote Originally Posted by Icelerate View Post
    What can Hiruzen actually do to Tsunade without RDS? Even with that jutsu, it isn't a guarantee draw for Hiruzen since Katsuyu could still help Tsunade get rid of Hiruzen before Tsunade gets sealed away.

    Since you restricted that only jutsu as well as hype, Hiruzen is only left with an earth wall, shuriken jutsu, fire ball and Emna. I guess Hiruzen can camp in Emna but it seems silly that staff can tank multiple susanoo busting punches from Tsunade. Emna gets knocked out of commission and Hiruzen is forced to stick to long ranged combat using fire balls to wear Tsunade down.

    Too bad with Tsunade's durability and stamina feats, Hiruzen isn't outlasting Tsunade, prime or no prime. Still a Prime Hiruzen is bound to be faster than Tsunade so we can't overlook that critical fact.

    Tsunade wins with mid-high difficulty.
    Are you saying that in order to even the odds, RDS should be permitted?
     
         

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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    Guess it really depends on how powerful you think Hiruzen was after factoring out Part 1's low power scaling even though Tsunade's appearance was actually pretty close to the CE's time. For feats specifically I believe Hiruzen's weapons of choice to take down Tsunade are:
    1. Having Enma snap her neck quickly (maybe have his arms extend out of an existing weapon like in his staff form)
    2. Planting explosive tags on her and blowing off entire limbs (not sure if she can recover from them or not.. Nagato didnt seem to take much damage from them but ET Hashirama and Tobirama did)

    I take arguing with Hiruzen on VS. threads since he's ninjutsu based and his power scales over time but this could be a pretty good vs match.
     
         

  10. #10
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazzilla88 View Post
    Are you saying that in order to even the odds, RDS should be permitted?
    Yes but then people will just say RDS FTW so as a matter of fact, just keep it out. She could still win thanks to Katsuyu support as RDS does take time to work and during that time Hiruzen is vulnerable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakengard View Post
    Guess it really depends on how powerful you think Hiruzen was after factoring out Part 1's low power scaling even though Tsunade's appearance was actually pretty close to the CE's time. For feats specifically I believe Hiruzen's weapons of choice to take down Tsunade are:
    1. Having Enma snap her neck quickly (maybe have his arms extend out of an existing weapon like in his staff form)
    2. Planting explosive tags on her and blowing off entire limbs (not sure if she can recover from them or not.. Nagato didnt seem to take much damage from them but ET Hashirama and Tobirama did)

    I take arguing with Hiruzen on VS. threads since he's ninjutsu based and his power scales over time but this could be a pretty good vs match.
    1. Tsunade could easily disarm Hiruzen if he tries that or punches Emna, killing it or knocking him out of commission.
    2. Explosive tags won't do anything with Tsunade's durability feats.
     
         

  11. #11
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    By feats Tsunade wins mid- high diff.

    There are two ways for Hiruzen to defeat Tsunade:

    1. Decapitate her

    - the problem with this is that is not that easy. As a medical ninja and taijutsu master, Tsunade is highly skilled in the art of evasion. Her reflexes are good, I doubt Hiruzen can decapitate her.

    2. Seal her

    - Well I know the RTS is restricted, but even if it is allowed, Hiruzen can't seal her so easily. She can use her summon, or simply brake the ground under her master.

    But if she can't kill him with her attacks ( what I doubt) she can use this:





    btw: Thanks the rep
     
         

  12. #12
    Kaika Saisei 開花再生 Chatte's Avatar
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakengard View Post
    Guess it really depends on how powerful you think Hiruzen was after factoring out Part 1's low power scaling even though Tsunade's appearance was actually pretty close to the CE's time. For feats specifically I believe Hiruzen's weapons of choice to take down Tsunade are:
    1. Having Enma snap her neck quickly (maybe have his arms extend out of an existing weapon like in his staff form)
    2. Planting explosive tags on her and blowing off entire limbs (not sure if she can recover from them or not.. Nagato didnt seem to take much damage from them but ET Hashirama and Tobirama did)

    I take arguing with Hiruzen on VS. threads since he's ninjutsu based and his power scales over time but this could be a pretty good vs match.
    What Icelerate said plus the fact that she can reconstruct her limbs.
    And given what Katsuyu said, that she can put her back together, if that happens, Tsunade will be hella OP imo.
     
         

  13. #13
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    Hardly a fair match given Hiruzen not displaying much, his power level being based off Part 1's constraints and knowing nothing of his "Prime".
     
         

  14. #14
    Kaika Saisei 開花再生 Chatte's Avatar
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    Quote Originally Posted by Negative Knight View Post
    Hardly a fair match given Hiruzen not displaying much, his power level being based off Part 1's constraints and knowing nothing of his "Prime".
    Well then people should start going crazy with the hype if the feats shown are the ones they are.
     
         

  15. #15
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatte View Post
    Well then people should start going crazy with the hype if the feats shown are the ones they are.
    I'm not a big fan of hype myself, but when a fights are created between two characters which limit the full potential of the other, it becomes necessary to consider it.

    While i acknowledge Tsunade's own strength, Hiruzen without restrictions, more screen time and featuring in Part 2 would show him to be the superior between the two.
     
         

  16. #16
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    Quote Originally Posted by MubiOxx View Post
    1. Hiruzen's Katon and Doton are Very Powerful and can cause problems to Tsunade

    2. Katsuya won't be a problem with Enma in hiruzen's Side.

    3. The only chance that Tsunade have is to Punch him Straight to the face.
    Wrong, wrong and wrong.

    1. Hiruzen can't harm Tsunade with C rank Dotons and Katons. She can easily break any doton- based attack that Hiruzen has, and she can easily tank every Katon jutsu. Remember, she tanked 5 Great Dragon Fire technique. And that justu was performed by the strongest Uchiha.

    2. Physical- based attacks are useless against Katsuya.

    3. No, that's not her only chance. She can kill him with chakra scalpels, she can immobilize him with Body Pathway Derangement or she can use her Slug, who can melt him.
     
         

  17. #17
    Kaika Saisei 開花再生 Chatte's Avatar
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    Quote Originally Posted by Negative Knight View Post
    I'm not a big fan of hype myself, but when a fights are created between two characters which limit the full potential of the other, it becomes necessary to consider it.

    While i acknowledge Tsunade's own strength, Hiruzen without restrictions, more screen time and featuring in Part 2 would show him to be the superior between the two.
    I've said it, even with the hype, given Tsunade's own hype and what she has shown, I fairly believe she can take him.
    Every each of these characters have hype of their own.
    People base it on the fact that he knew over 1000 jutsus. Fair enough. But the thing no one has though about is if he has time to perform them and something more important, enough chakra to perform them.
    People don't think about these things. A fight doesn't stand only in the shown jutsus, it's about technique.
    Not to mention that he was her Sensei and it is only normal to know him very well, his fighting style, so on and so forth.
    If it's for the hype thing, why people discard Tsunade's own hype regarding the Second Shinobi World War?
    It is precisely said that given her medical prowess and combat techniques that they were able to win it, no Hiruzen mentioned there.
    I am not downplaying Hiruzen, as for his age, he was impressive, but we cannot downplay Tsunade either.
    And even if he would've been featured in Part 2, this wouldn't mean that he would've been superior to Tsunade.
     
         

  18. #18
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    I would say Hiruzen but the only Jutsu he has capable of finishing Tsunade is RDS which would make it a draw, but I see Tsunade outlasting her Sensei beating him high diff.
     
         

  19. #19
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    Hiruzen wins by hype, and by feats he was good enough in taijutsu to be able to leave explosiv tags on Hashirama and Tobirama without them or Orochimaru noticing, so it would be risky for Tsunade to attack him recklessly. With his Enma summoning jutsu, it gives him a great defense against Tsunade and a good mid range taijutsu attack. With his wide katon he can extent the range of his attacks and create opportunities. Doton would be good as a protection or changing the location in his favour(for example by elevating the place they are fighting). I'm sure he would find his way to win
     
         

  20. #20
    Senior Member Tazzilla88's Avatar
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    Re: Tsunade versus Hiruzen

    Considering Tsunade was able to take a bell from Hiruzen, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that she is more than capable of making contact with Jiraiya.
     
         

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