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  1. #26
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    Re: Sharingan Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnaroc View Post
    really?
    >.>
    *looks around in disbelief*
    <.<

    did you really just ask what the difference between shaped/manipulated chakra and chakra in your body is? let me try to explain this for you. the chakra inside ones body is in its purest UNSHAPED/MANIPULATED form where as the chakra outside of the body has been shaped/manipulated thus it would have been formed and molded to match ones natural affinity.
    Sorry, must've worded it wrongly it's 2am here lul.

    How are these two chakras different in how you can tell the nature of the chakra? Sure the passive chakra is unmoulded/manipulated, but how does looking at a moulded chakra like a Rasengan differ from this chakra? You can't tell one's chakra nature by looking at this Rasengan with a Byakugan?
     
         

  2. #27
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    Re: Sharingan Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternative View Post
    My suggestion would be more like you need to own the certain level of sharingan on your bio for so long before you can train in it, does that make a difference? Sort of like the new Madara rules, how you need to have him for so long before making him better.



    It's cute really, your attempt to insult me with your rhetorical questions. If I hadn't seen the anime or read the manga, I wouldn't be here now would I?

    It still seems dumb that someone with the Byakugan can see chakra natures, even if it's MOLDED and NATURE MANIPULATED and not the chakra PASSIVELY circulating around you. I thought that was one of the perks of the byakugan, to see chakra flowing throughout one's body. I mean sure if you release the chakra into the ground or something it makes sense, but Byakugan can only see chakra. What makes the chakra flowing passively through someone's body different from the chakra someone releases using Shape and Nature Manipulations?
    The New rules regarding having the sharingan for so long before not having its activation considered a move is regarding expertise, not understanding. Think of it like this, when you first learn a new skill (driving, riding a bike, playing a sport) its difficult to do at first, but after a while of doing it, it becomes easier and you can do it with greater skill. No one can hop on a bike for the first time and win the Tour de France. Things like that require training, hence the new rule. Another way to think of the new rules regarding activation in a battle like Goku from DBZ. When he first turned super sayin it was very tough for him to transition to super sayin at first, but after a while and prolonged use, it became easy for him. Thats the new rule (regarding activation and use as a move in battle) in a nutshell.

    I think you misunderstood his point. No one can distinguish between nature types. Period. What you can do is see the characteristics of the chakra, and make an educated guess. If you see the chakra rubbing against itself, you can assume its wind. If you see the chakra cracking like lightning, you can assume its lightning. if someone were to make a spinning disk of water, a spinnng disk of earth, a spinning disk of fire, you cant tell the difference between them all based on chakra only (the actual color would be a dead givaway though). Since sharingan can see chakra, the same pricipals can be applied as well.
     
         

  3. #28
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    Re: Sharingan Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by Scary Yamato View Post
    The New rules regarding having the sharingan for so long before not having its activation considered a move is regarding expertise, not understanding. Think of it like this, when you first learn a new skill (driving, riding a bike, playing a sport) its difficult to do at first, but after a while of doing it, it becomes easier and you can do it with greater skill. No one can hop on a bike for the first time and win the Tour de France. Things like that require training, hence the new rule. Another way to think of the new rules regarding activation in a battle like Goku from DBZ. When he first turned super sayin it was very tough for him to transition to super sayin at first, but after a while and prolonged use, it became easy for him. Thats the new rule (regarding activation and use as a move in battle) in a nutshell.

    I think you misunderstood his point. No one can distinguish between nature types. Period. What you can do is see the characteristics of the chakra, and make an educated guess. If you see the chakra rubbing against itself, you can assume its wind. If you see the chakra cracking like lightning, you can assume its lightning. if someone were to make a spinning disk of water, a spinnng disk of earth, a spinning disk of fire, you cant tell the difference between them all based on chakra only (the actual color would be a dead givaway though). Since sharingan can see chakra, the same pricipals can be applied as well.
    I think of the timing thing to be sort of like using your Goku example, but in a different way. I'm assuming there's another level after Super Saiyan (haven't seen it, don't judge) so it would be more like you get into the level, take the time to master the level and then move onto the next, instead of as soon as you get it, you can move onto the next one?

    But thank you for explaining it in a way which isn't trying to blatantly (more or less) insult someone just because they don't have 290744 years of experience in the RP. I was more under the assumption that you would only be able to see chakra, not the properties of the chakra as well.
     
         

  4. #29
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    Re: Sharingan Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternative View Post
    I think of the timing thing to be sort of like using your Goku example, but in a different way. I'm assuming there's another level after Super Saiyan (haven't seen it, don't judge) so it would be more like you get into the level, take the time to master the level and then move onto the next, instead of as soon as you get it, you can move onto the next one?

    But thank you for explaining it in a way which isn't trying to blatantly (more or less) insult someone just because they don't have 290744 years of experience in the RP. I was more under the assumption that you would only be able to see chakra, not the properties of the chakra as well.
    Scorps wasnt trying to insult you, he was just pointing out that the manga/anime has explained how chakra is sharpened, and if you can see the way the chakra is acting you can make an hypothesis about what nature it is. It doesnt require experience, only close observation.
     
         

  5. #30
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    Re: Sharingan Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternative View Post
    lol

    How can someone see sharp or vibrant chakra? Based on the whole paper ordeal we saw when Naruto found out he had a Wind nature to his chakra? While we're at it, if the chakra looks wet it's obviously water chakra, and if it looks like it will burst into ashes it's fire chakra. Based on that fact alone, you can tell if something is wind or lightning chakra, that's it.
    That logic makes no sense. >_<

    As for getting these next abilities for Sharingan, why not make it so that you need to have a Sharingan for x time before you're allowed to upgrade it? Instead of having to rush it with the same sensei, or getting different sensei, you are required to have yoru level of Sharingan for a certain period of time, before you're allowed to upgrade it. It ensures people will most likely know the bounds of that sharingan's level, and you can't rush it either. Sort of like the Akimichi rules for Pills and Calorie Control techniques.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorps View Post
    If you feel unappreciated as a senpai and want to take the next step, why not stop complaining and take the sensei test, pass and actually become one? Seems quite easy to me.

    Oh, and for all the comparisson between senseis and senpais... Sensei conducts and organizes battle tests, help out in maitaining the jutsu list, oversee fights, judgements, are bound to teach. Senpais teach the students their senseis send them. As a senpai is nothing more than an assistant teacher. A helper. Not a fullly fledged professor or teacher. So your logic is flawed and one sided as well, zero.




    Time for sharingan wont happen. Period.

    As for the rest... did you read the manga and seen the anime? if so you wouldn't need to ask why one with a dojutsu can see that a chakra is sharp or vibrant or that it manifests heat. You would also understand why it can't be done for earth and water. And again, I'm talking about chakra released on the field...not the one inside you. I'm talking about MOLDED and NATURE MANIPULATED chakra. Not the one PASSIVELY circulating inside you. Sorry for such advanced concepts but one would expect members to actually understand this before criticizing the work that they lack the knowledge to even grasp. The paper serves to acertain the primary nature of your chakra. Your raw chakra has an inclination towards an element. That is passive and can only be determined by that method with the paper for the chakra tree. The chakra you can see released on the field for an elemental technique has already gone through both manipulations: shape and nature. And as such can be clearly seen to that the properties of those elements as it was already molded forcefully into them before releasing the technique. What people fail to understand is that this "detection" ability doesn't pertain to chakra inside you but chakra you release for a technique.

    Thanks rag btw ^^
    Sorry if I came across as insulting you. That was not my intention. If it was, there would be no need to sugar coat in a big wall of text. lol

    What i said, translated into a simpler manner was that if you don't understand something, before critizing it you should try to understand it. The moment you wrote "it makes no sense" you "dissed" the whole issue into a non-valid status, reasoning that i couldn't be and made no sense. However, by saying that, and later showing it, you were proven to not grasp the whole set of concepts behind Chakra, manipulation, ninjutsu, chakra nature, etc. If you didn't grasp those concepts, instead of saying it made no sense (which was a judgment) you should have simply asked"can you explain why?". Besides, its something that bykugan users and sharingan users alike have used for ages. Like SY said, its not predicting or anything. Its a case of an educated guess. When naruto was learning wind and wnet to Asuna, asuna explained that his chakra should be thin and sharp and actually "friction" upon eachother. When lightning was explained, it was said to produce virbations andto "crackle". What I did with the rules was to transform what was something known as common logic and hearsay into something official. Didn't change the abilities of the Byakugan. And Sharingan was always able to do this. By observing the minute changes and details of chakra, some educated guesses were always set as the core ability of a sharingan user, it pertains to the clarity of perception and reasoning.

    Again, sorry if I sounded insulting or arrogant or harsh, but it wasn't my intention to insult you. One however, should only critique things they understand and know fully. When months of work are dispicted as "not making sense", you better be able to reason it to the fullest and understand all that is involved before dissing it all out as "invalid" or "illogical".
     
         

  6. #31
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    Re: Sharingan Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorps View Post
    I bet you think that indeed. I mean, then you wouldn't need training or any kind of effort to use a sharingan. Knowing how to use it however is another different issue.

    Making something be given auto just because time passes is not a good principle. Its the lazy principle that ends up messing things up instead of fixing them.

    The sharingan is a complex enough set of abilities that, even when properly trained and used, may raise time frame issues and other issues such as the whole "avoid eye contact thing". So no, you won't get it auto. You'll be trained in it and evolve it. As it was, is and will be the correct method to attain its abilities.

    Now, you say Byakugan gained abilities and the sharingan was depowered and even needs to spend a move to activate it. Its clear that a) you didn't read the rules properly, b) you don't understand both Doujutsu properly and c) your goal is to have everything free and unrestricted.

    Regarding a) let me explain that, like the sharingan, byakugan also requires the activation. Unlike the sharingan however, Byakugan requires you to master Gentle fist to use it without spending a move while sharingan you only need to obtain the 3T and have it for a set amount of time to actually use it passively. So your logic there is false and its clear you didn't even care about reading the rules of both doujutsu before complaining about a non-issue.

    as for b) byakugan users could already figure that set of reasonings as could sharingan users. They see chakra...thus they can see the details of chakra and in some cases reason logically the nature behind it. If its ssharp chakra its bound to be wind. If its vibrant, its bout to be lightning. etc etc. But your inability to understand the core different between seeing something and predicting it is really weird. Because a doujutsu user can see the nature of a chakra released on the field, doesn't mean he can predict it (duh...the chakra is already on the field so there isn't really much to predict upon right?) or react before it happens. Predicting is a Sharingan ability. One that was 99% of the time misused and for that reason not used at all. However, in this revamp I made sure that ability of foresight is still usable and reasonable as is the copying ability. I made sure the sharingan can use both abilities which are core of its own manga abilities. Also, in our rp people just needed to say "i don't look into your eyes" and that was that. You could simply avoid sharingan techniques (their core perks and abilities) by saying that. However, I made sure that is only possible for Taijutsu masters, like it was seen in the manga. Giving sharingan its power and ability back. So sorry if you feel that way but you're wrong and you're wrong because you simply read what you wanted to read and not what is there and that is a fruit of your own inability to understand the abilities and their uses.

    as for the final c), it will never happen. You can have all the abilities in the RP. You just need to fit the requirements to have them. Simple. You complain that no senseis exist? or not enough better put. Then take the sensei test, train others and help the system instead of complaining. You complain MS is only sensei boudn? well, what does a sensei gain for teaching? nothing. Does he have to? no. But shouldn't we also take into consideration that they should moraly get access to special abilities because they are senseis and work for free for the base? In all honesty, I wish more powerfull things required sensei ship. Since people don't become senseis or teach because they want to help the base, perhaps they would do it if it meant they could get access to some unique abilities. May be the wrong principle (yes, it is) but its the reality. You can't complain that things have restrictions because if they hadn't you would only fight madara, nagato and naruto bios in the rp. Restriction have a logic and reasoning behind them. One that is clear you fial to understand but that i suggest you try to because the RP won't change in that aspect regardless of how much whining members throw at our hard work.

    From the overall RP community i got about 30 positive feedbacks from normal members, senpais, senior sharingan and MS senseis (only point made was perhaps the excessive chakra cost for maintaining the sharingan active which will be revised) and only your negative input.This means the rules are overal reaosnable, good and for once do get the majority of supporters.
    would gladly take it anytime, but I have to master everything first, and to do so, I need a sensei... From the very first day I started to RP I wanted to become a sensei. It's like the egg and the chiken... Unlike what you may be thinking, I'm not a lazy guy who wants to get everything auto, I'm just disappointed at the rate my training is going... And, I think you already know I want to help with the base, as I have requested multiple times approval to train people in raiton (were, obviously I get nothing in exchange, just that I help with the base), since it's the only thing I have mastered.

    I have seen people master basic 5 in 3-4 months, and I'm still with only Raiton mastered.

    And, about the sharingan, I have read more than one training thread about each step, I have asked questions in the Q&A section about it's abilities and I believe I can use it properly... Of cource training is important, but some people are able to train by themselves... How about giving me the opportunity to do so, and then check my thread, see what I have right or wrong, and validate them or not... Or give me the chance to take a written test, were I describe you the usages of the sharingan.

    I am actually suggesting an alternative training method, were I can start describing what I do in each step, and then all you have to do is validate it or not. It's like training alone. If you want, we can discuss this via VMs, but I think this would solve many problems...
     
         
    Last edited by Necron; 12-05-2012 at 09:20 PM.

  7. #32
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    Re: Sharingan Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by Necron View Post
    would gladly take it anytime, but I have to master everything first, and to do so, I need a sensei... From the very first day I started to RP I wanted to become a sensei. It's like the egg and the chiken... Unlike what you may be thinking, I'm not a lazy guy who wants to get everything auto, I'm just disappointed at the rate my training is going... And, I think you already know I want to help with the base, as I have requested multiple times approval to train people in raiton (were, obviously I get nothing in exchange, just that I help with the base), since it's the only thing I have mastered.

    I have seen people master basic 5 in 3-4 months, and I'm still with only Raiton mastered.

    And, about the sharingan, I have read more than one training thread about each step, I have asked questions in the Q&A section about it's abilities and I believe I can use it properly... Of cource training is important, but some people are able to train by themselves... How about giving me the opportunity to do so, and then check my thread, see what I have right or wrong, and validate them or not... Or give me the chance to take a written test, were I describe you the usages of the sharingan.

    I am actually suggesting an alternative training method, were I can start describing what I do in each step, and then all you have to do is validate it or not. It's like training alone. If you want, we can discuss this via VMs, but I think this would solve many problems...
    I basically disagree with everything you said lol...

    "How about giving me the opportunity to do so..."

    Not possible. That's like me saying:

    How about giving me the sensei status (Orange name and all), then see how I do as a sensei, check up on me, see what I have right or wrong, and validate my success or not.

    It's just not exactly fair to let one person jump over the wall called "Rules"
     
         

  8. #33
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    Re: Sharingan Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie.. View Post
    I basically disagree with everything you said lol...

    "How about giving me the opportunity to do so..."

    Not possible. That's like me saying:

    How about giving me the sensei status (Orange name and all), then see how I do as a sensei, check up on me, see what I have right or wrong, and validate my success or not.

    It's just not exactly fair to let one person jump over the wall called "Rules"
    when I say "me" I mean it in a general way. What I mean is, members who have been active in the RP for a certain amount of time, and have fought many battles, seen most of the existing jutsu etc, should get an opportunity to train by themselves...

    but, you basically like to disagree with all my suggestions for some reason, probably because of the incident during the war, so you knew that already I believe...
     
         

  9. #34
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    Re: Sharingan Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by Necron View Post
    when I say "me" I mean it in a general way. What I mean is, members who have been active in the RP for a certain amount of time, and have fought many battles, seen most of the existing jutsu etc, should get an opportunity to train by themselves...

    but, you basically like to disagree with all my suggestions for some reason, probably because of the incident during the war, so you knew that already I believe...
    They basically have those already, Shishou. I don't think that's exactly what you meant by that's the closest to that I could think of.
     
         

  10. #35
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    Re: Sharingan Awakening

    Rag actually unlocked the first two stages of "my" Sharingan a long time ago. A really long time ago.
     
         

  11. #36
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    Re: Sharingan Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by Necron View Post
    when I say "me" I mean it in a general way. What I mean is, members who have been active in the RP for a certain amount of time, and have fought many battles, seen most of the existing jutsu etc, should get an opportunity to train by themselves...

    but, you basically like to disagree with all my suggestions for some reason, probably because of the incident during the war, so you knew that already I believe...
    or maybe I just have a different perspective than yours? the war is long gone dude >_>...

    And maybe I disagree because I can see the faults and why your suggestion(s) isn't plausible...
     
         

  12. #37
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    Re: Sharingan Awakening

    Quote Originally Posted by Necron View Post
    would gladly take it anytime, but I have to master everything first, and to do so, I need a sensei... From the very first day I started to RP I wanted to become a sensei. It's like the egg and the chiken... Unlike what you may be thinking, I'm not a lazy guy who wants to get everything auto, I'm just disappointed at the rate my training is going... And, I think you already know I want to help with the base, as I have requested multiple times approval to train people in raiton (were, obviously I get nothing in exchange, just that I help with the base), since it's the only thing I have mastered.

    I have seen people master basic 5 in 3-4 months, and I'm still with only Raiton mastered.

    And, about the sharingan, I have read more than one training thread about each step, I have asked questions in the Q&A section about it's abilities and I believe I can use it properly... Of cource training is important, but some people are able to train by themselves... How about giving me the opportunity to do so, and then check my thread, see what I have right or wrong, and validate them or not... Or give me the chance to take a written test, were I describe you the usages of the sharingan.

    I am actually suggesting an alternative training method, were I can start describing what I do in each step, and then all you have to do is validate it or not. It's like training alone. If you want, we can discuss this via VMs, but I think this would solve many problems...
    first: you're suggesting that we become bias, is that it? that we become more subjective? because imagine i don't think you have this...hum...skill level. If I said that and denied the validity of your ability while validating someone elses, you'd be calling me bias and what not. Same with any other mod. And that would bring a tear and a stress to something that is quite simple as it is.

    second: this brings the concept that moderators would need to validate your claim as well as everyone elses. which meant we'd need to give basically everything auto and oversee basically everything. Not viable.

    third: nothing in the RP is gained auto. simple as that. you are trained and when there is no trainer for that skill in the system you are tested. however, sharingan will never be that. its too advanced and teachers will exist always as its a popular skill.

    fourth: doing what you suggest brings the concept of basically deleting the teaching system all together and start the "self taught" method all around for everything. 4 years of RP down the drain and the efforts of everyone who actually trained thrown in the garbage just because someone wanted it auto or more easily to see chakra and predict stuff.

    fifth: sorry if i'm seeming harsh or agressive but what you suggest is really moronic and ridiculous as its so balantly illogical that its both stupid and comical. The concept of "i'm good because i've been here since before 2009" is a concept that doesn't sit well and is flawed in its essence all together. Its been disputed many times before. Time has nothing to do with skill. Suggesting we take a less objective, less clear approach to such an issue is impractical and won't happen. Period

    PS- not calling you stupid...just your idea.
     
         
    Last edited by Scorps; 12-06-2012 at 03:57 PM.

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