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  1. #1
    Member Rikud0 Sennin's Avatar
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    SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    ~SPOILER!-SPOILER!-SPOILER! SPOILER!-SPOILER!-SPOILER! SPOILER!-SPOILER!-SPOILER!

    SOSP family tree theory revisited.
    I’m trying to explain a few gaps in the story that Kishimoto has kept from us as of yet. So, in order to explain how a father with the most powerful dojutsu has two sons, one child with a lesser dojutsu, and the other with normal eyes, I have theorized that the Sage of Six Paths had two mistresses. One of which had a dojutsu, and one who did not. Since there are only 3 “special eyes” in the Naruto universe, The Sharingan, The Rinnegan, and The Byakugan, one of the mistresses had to be a Hyuga. It’s funny too… I always thought the Uchiha’s kind of looked like the Hyuga’s in terms of skin color and hair color ‘n stuff. The other mistress could have been anyone. No real hints… But, my guess is that she had dark brown hair, and was OP. Ridiculously strong. Kind of like Tsunade, but with darker hair.


    But the big point here is that there were no mutations between the Sage, and the 2nd Son. So, it is entirely possible for Senju/Uzumaki to obtain the Rinnegan. But the key to obtain it, it’s not what I had originally thought. What I thought before was through immense emotional pain. What I think now is that you have to be on the brink of death, with both the longevity of the Senju Clan or Uzumaki Clan, and have the Sharingan. Why I abandoned my original belief is simple. In this Manga, there have always been wars, wrongful deaths, unspeakable actions taking place, dirty secrets, etc. There would have been more Rinnegan users if it were based on emotion.


    So, let’s take a look at how Madara obtained his.
    Well, he unlocked it when he was very old, on his last leg so to speak. His Senju cells started to show through his Uchiha cells. This is similar to the phase Madara went through when he lost his sight. It says “In exchange for their extraordinary power, the user ends up sealing away his own eyes, forever robbing them of the light. Madara did everything he could to free himself from the darkness, but all efforts were in vain. He fell into despair. And Finally, Possesed by the Mangekyou grasping for a new source of light…” Here we see that the Uchiha had a final secret. In desperation, the eyes can take control over you, and make it so you are not blind anymore. The Senju should have a similar power. The Sage gave the older brother his eyes, and the younger, his body~the life force and physical energy. So, if the life force is draining and in desperation, it should do something to make you live…? Heal you, even though you should have died? Or just keep you alive, like it did with Madara. (Wouldn’t the kyuubi chakra come in handy for healing after a huge blow? ;D)


    We can also look at how and why Madara transferred the Rinnegan to Nagato, without his knowledge. ~this part is simple. Madara obviously planned this thoroughly because it was his ticket back into the world. In the anime, we see Nagato with his parents in their house. They get killed by Leaf Shinobi by accident, and that horror awoke Nagato’s Rinnegan. This was part of the reason why I thought you obtain the Rinnegan through intense emotion. What probably actually happened was Madara put a genjutsu on Nagato, killed his parents, and made it look like leaf ninja were responsible. The jutsu would impair Nagato’s senses, making it possible for Madara to implant his Rinnegan. The jutsu was also a plot to destroy the leaf, which actually was accomplished. Now, other than the plot to get revenge on the Leaf, why did Madara implant the Rinnegan inside Nagato. Why not any other kid? It is because he is an Uzumaki. In Ch. 606 pg. 15 Madara said that one must have the power of both the Uchiha and the Senju to unlock the Rinnegan. This leaves to question, which DNA controls what? Well, it just hit me. Remember when Sasuke forced his way into Naruto’s Inner self, and saw the Kyuubi? The Kyuubi said that he has never felt a chakra so strong. And remember what Nagato said when he used the Chibaku Tensei ~ where he gathered a ball of chakra, and turned it black, and it floated into the sky to block out the sun, and created a gravitational pull that made a huge boulder in the sky? Yeah that. Remember what he said? He was nothing compared to the Sage because the Sage made the moon with that technique. He, wasn’t as Strong as the Sage. So, since he was actually able to use all of the techniques, and he didn’t have Uchiha DNA, Adding the Uchiha DNA would greatly improve the strength of the jutsu, but it isn’t technically necessary. The Uchiha DNA provides the ability to gain the new dojutsu, adds incredible strength to the jutsu, and the Senju DNA allows the use of the outer paths technique, and allows you to have control over life itself.




    Here are references to Manga chapters that support my theory.
    Kakashi mentioned in Ch. 462 pg. 11 that “the Rinnegan is just a mutation” of the Sharingan, when in fact it is the other way around. Ch. 78 pg. 13 he says “they say that the Uchiha clan’s origins lie with the Hyuga Clan” ~meaning the mother of the first son was a Hyuga.
    Ch. 606 pg. 1 Madara says “the more you live… … the more you realize that reality is just made of pain, suffering, and emptiness” This is the mindset that he bestowed upon Nagato while giving him the Rinnegan.
    Ch. 308-309. Sasuke enters Naruto’s inner world.
    Ch 439 Nagato uses Chibukai Tensei, and tells us he is weaker. Well, it was the anime version 166-167 I was talking about.
    Ch. 386 pg 7. Quote describing Madara stealing his brother’s eyes.
    Plus, it would give a whole new twist to when Neji said to Naruto that “your eyes are more powerful than mine” ~if he can still awaken the Rinnegan ~Ch. 193 pg. 4
    Truth is, Authors Love to foreshadow. Especially from the beginning of the story. Foreshadowing makes watching/reading stories over and over again exciting. You pick up on things that you didn't notice, or even think to notice, the first go-round. And that right there serves no purpose other than to foreshadow.
     
         
    Last edited by Rikud0 Sennin; 12-06-2012 at 03:49 AM.

  2. #2
    God of Wood O_O HashiramaDescendant's Avatar
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    Can I get the main idea, please?
     
         

  3. #3
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    Waaaaayyyyyyyyyyy too much writing with not enough spaces.
     
         

  4. #4
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    make a summary
     
         

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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    Wanna be me ^-_-^
     
         

  6. #6
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    Wow, wall of text lol, make smaller paragraphs please
     
         

  7. #7
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    I agree make a summary
     
         

  8. #8
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    Didn't read
     
         

  9. #9
    No Regrets Lelouch vi Zero's Avatar
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    Good thread probably right
     
         

  10. #10
    Member Rikud0 Sennin's Avatar
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    I'm not going to summarize it any more than it already is. I tried to make it a bit more readable.
     
         

  11. #11
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    I dint read da whole thing
     
         

  12. #12
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    I read it all and I have to say, well done. But, with this being said, if naruto has children with hinata, would his children end up with the byakugan or could they possibly get sharingan?
     
         

  13. #13
    Senior Member thegame's Avatar
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    Yet again just assumptions. Most of your evidence has been contradicted in the manga many times. Dno why Kishi keeps changing his mind, but he might just want to create confusion by letting different characters say different things.
     
         

  14. #14
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    Hyuga chicks have big boobies,I can understand why Sage had one of Hyuga
     
         

  15. #15
    OH LONG JOHNSON edo tensai wilmaso's Avatar
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    i like how ppl get on here and complain about the length of the thread, or they didn't read...why are you even commenting..... be happy that this guy is giving articulate details, and not some madara would solo everybody thread lmao. get real dudes.
     
         

  16. #16
    Member Rikud0 Sennin's Avatar
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    Thanks. Care to share some contradictions?
     
         

  17. #17
    Senior Member thegame's Avatar
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    Well you mention quite a lot of the contradictions already.

    But madara saying everything is just pain. Well not for naruto.

    It was also said that byakugan is the strongest dojutsu, but it was also said that uchiha was strongest clan in konoha :shrug: what do they have to do with each other, and why would the huyga have anything to do with the rinnengan, when we see it so little, and we only saw neji in a few serious fights. 5 if my memory is right.

    Obito lied a lot to sasuke as well, so the thing about madaras brother willingly giving up his eyes is probably a lie too.

    What about Madara? Awakening rinnengan at an very old age, yet he was able to give them to nagato, flee across several nations (don't forget that this is during war time), and hide up in a cave with the gedo mazou and a huge life-giving tree. First of all. How the **** do you transplant a eye to yourself without vision in your second eye and a mirror? Nvm. still the situation is just messed up.
    So when nagato is supposed to revive madara, he would still be that old, and he would still be at the verge of death? I see no reason for rinne tensei to give the revived person a new life span. So what would Madara do, when he was revived? Connect to the Juubi to get life? Why did he bother dying in the first place then?

    Obito sad he wanted Sasuke to sync with gedo mazou, but now he is doing it himself.

    etc etc
     
         

  18. #18
    Member Rikud0 Sennin's Avatar
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    Well you mention quite a lot of the contradictions already.

    But madara saying everything is just pain. Well not for naruto.

    It was also said that byakugan is the strongest dojutsu, but it was also said that uchiha was strongest clan in konoha :shrug: what do they have to do with each other, and why would the huyga have anything to do with the rinnengan, when we see it so little, and we only saw neji in a few serious fights. 5 if my memory is right.

    Obito lied a lot to sasuke as well, so the thing about madaras brother willingly giving up his eyes is probably a lie too.

    What about Madara? Awakening rinnengan at an very old age, yet he was able to give them to nagato, flee across several nations (don't forget that this is during war time), and hide up in a cave with the gedo mazou and a huge life-giving tree. First of all. How the **** do you transplant a eye to yourself without vision in your second eye and a mirror? Nvm. still the situation is just messed up.
    So when nagato is supposed to revive madara, he would still be that old, and he would still be at the verge of death? I see no reason for rinne tensei to give the revived person a new life span. So what would Madara do, when he was revived? Connect to the Juubi to get life? Why did he bother dying in the first place then?

    Obito sad he wanted Sasuke to sync with gedo mazou, but now he is doing it himself.

    etc etc
    Okay, first: The byakugan was said to be the stranoest dojutsu in regards to Insight.
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/078/13
    This means that the user can see the chakra networks "nodes". points where, if damaged, can change the flow of the chakra network. With this knowledge, the Leafs greatest Taijutsu is born.
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/079/5
    This alone does not surpass the Sharingan, because the sharingan consists of 2 parts. It has the ability to see the flow of chakra, but not the nodes. It will give each chakra a distinct color, so they can differentiate between people. This next part, the byakugan does not have, making it inferior. It can copy techniques, and will eventually evolve to give you special jutsus.
    The only time it has been said that the byakugan was superior was because it can see the individual nodes. It, however, is an inferior dojutsu.

    Obito did lie to sasuke alot. I never said that madaras brother willingly gave his eye to madara. I said that madara's eyes possessed him, just like itachi said, and that possession made him take his brothers eyes.

    And about madara, you are correct. It is very strange that he could do that. Maybe, he just passed on through as a civilian. And anyone who tried to rob him or whatnot, died. Also, we know that there are extensive underground passages. Orochimaru used some, but that probally was not the extent of them. He only had to pass through the Land of Fire, and then into Amegakure.
    Another strange thing is how did Madara pick up Obito? The Gedo Mazou is in the Mountains Graveyard(way north of Land of Fire). And the Tenchi bridge was in Kusagakure. (West of Land of Fire.) And he said that Obito landed in one of his tunnel. (http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/602/5) Sooo, does the Tunnel really go that far? And does his attaching string thing that keeps him attached to the Gedo Mazou really that long? Then it is completely feasable that The tunnels could go all the way to Nagato. And he Really could get there While still attached to the Mazou. After all, Kusagakure and Amegakure are neiboring countries.

    And why would Nagato revive Madara in that condition? We don't really know the extent of that power. When Nagato used it, he had no chakra left, and it killed him. And all the souls that he took in that battle were returned. If he was focusing on just one soul, he may have been able to restore Madara back to the point where he only had Uchiha DNA. To before he battled Hashirama. Then, Madara would just kill Nagato, and take his eyes back, and implant some of Hashirama's DNA that is stored with the Gedo Mazou. And he would be, him again.


    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Geography
    Here is a Map.
     
         

  19. #19
    Member Uzimaki Akira's Avatar
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    They're going to destroy you for that giant wall of text...
     
         

  20. #20
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    Well it could be.. from genetics point of view it would make sense.. but I don't think I can agree with the theory about how to get Rinnegan...

    Being it Senju/Uzumaki or Uchiha they will always need the other part because EVERY SON and EVERY BROTHER same mothers or not will always only have half of their fathers DNA. So Senju will still need the Uchiha's DNA (which can be found in the eyes though I personally believe that any DNA sample would do) just like the Uchiha need Senju DNA. Brink of death or no it's irrelevant, probably what it takes is time.

    Time is the key factor so that the transplanted DNA can be absorbed by the hostage body and start participating in chakra production and flow. If the host has a very strong chakra (in quality) himself the process might take longer as the "transplanted" would probably be repelled or suppressed. As the host grows weaker and older or as time passes this effect showd fade thus giving oportunity for Rinnegan to awaken.

    But all of this are simple theories ^^ wild speculation
     
         

  21. #21
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikud0 Sennin View Post
    Okay, first: The byakugan was said to be the stranoest dojutsu in regards to Insight.
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/078/13
    This means that the user can see the chakra networks "nodes". points where, if damaged, can change the flow of the chakra network. With this knowledge, the Leafs greatest Taijutsu is born.
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/079/5
    This alone does not surpass the Sharingan, because the sharingan consists of 2 parts. It has the ability to see the flow of chakra, but not the nodes. It will give each chakra a distinct color, so they can differentiate between people. This next part, the byakugan does not have, making it inferior. It can copy techniques, and will eventually evolve to give you special jutsus.
    The only time it has been said that the byakugan was superior was because it can see the individual nodes. It, however, is an inferior dojutsu.

    Obito did lie to sasuke alot. I never said that madaras brother willingly gave his eye to madara. I said that madara's eyes possessed him, just like itachi said, and that possession made him take his brothers eyes.

    And about madara, you are correct. It is very strange that he could do that. Maybe, he just passed on through as a civilian. And anyone who tried to rob him or whatnot, died. Also, we know that there are extensive underground passages. Orochimaru used some, but that probally was not the extent of them. He only had to pass through the Land of Fire, and then into Amegakure.
    Another strange thing is how did Madara pick up Obito? The Gedo Mazou is in the Mountains Graveyard(way north of Land of Fire). And the Tenchi bridge was in Kusagakure. (West of Land of Fire.) And he said that Obito landed in one of his tunnel. (http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/602/5) Sooo, does the Tunnel really go that far? And does his attaching string thing that keeps him attached to the Gedo Mazou really that long? Then it is completely feasable that The tunnels could go all the way to Nagato. And he Really could get there While still attached to the Mazou. After all, Kusagakure and Amegakure are neiboring countries.

    And why would Nagato revive Madara in that condition? We don't really know the extent of that power. When Nagato used it, he had no chakra left, and it killed him. And all the souls that he took in that battle were returned. If he was focusing on just one soul, he may have been able to restore Madara back to the point where he only had Uchiha DNA. To before he battled Hashirama. Then, Madara would just kill Nagato, and take his eyes back, and implant some of Hashirama's DNA that is stored with the Gedo Mazou. And he would be, him again.


    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Geography
    Here is a Map.
    i say Zetsu helped out! He is the land himself. He's probably the one that found Obito as well.
     
         

  22. #22
    Senior Member thegame's Avatar
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikud0 Sennin View Post
    Okay, first: The byakugan was said to be the stranoest dojutsu in regards to Insight.
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/078/13
    This means that the user can see the chakra networks "nodes". points where, if damaged, can change the flow of the chakra network. With this knowledge, the Leafs greatest Taijutsu is born.
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/079/5
    This alone does not surpass the Sharingan, because the sharingan consists of 2 parts. It has the ability to see the flow of chakra, but not the nodes. It will give each chakra a distinct color, so they can differentiate between people. This next part, the byakugan does not have, making it inferior. It can copy techniques, and will eventually evolve to give you special jutsus.
    The only time it has been said that the byakugan was superior was because it can see the individual nodes. It, however, is an inferior dojutsu.

    Obito did lie to sasuke alot. I never said that madaras brother willingly gave his eye to madara. I said that madara's eyes possessed him, just like itachi said, and that possession made him take his brothers eyes.

    And about madara, you are correct. It is very strange that he could do that. Maybe, he just passed on through as a civilian. And anyone who tried to rob him or whatnot, died. Also, we know that there are extensive underground passages. Orochimaru used some, but that probally was not the extent of them. He only had to pass through the Land of Fire, and then into Amegakure.
    Another strange thing is how did Madara pick up Obito? The Gedo Mazou is in the Mountains Graveyard(way north of Land of Fire). And the Tenchi bridge was in Kusagakure. (West of Land of Fire.) And he said that Obito landed in one of his tunnel. (http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/602/5) Sooo, does the Tunnel really go that far? And does his attaching string thing that keeps him attached to the Gedo Mazou really that long? Then it is completely feasable that The tunnels could go all the way to Nagato. And he Really could get there While still attached to the Mazou. After all, Kusagakure and Amegakure are neiboring countries.

    And why would Nagato revive Madara in that condition? We don't really know the extent of that power. When Nagato used it, he had no chakra left, and it killed him. And all the souls that he took in that battle were returned. If he was focusing on just one soul, he may have been able to restore Madara back to the point where he only had Uchiha DNA. To before he battled Hashirama. Then, Madara would just kill Nagato, and take his eyes back, and implant some of Hashirama's DNA that is stored with the Gedo Mazou. And he would be, him again.


    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Geography
    Here is a Map.
    What I mean, is not how he got to amegakure. Nagato was probably born in amegekure, though it could have been another place, but we don't know then. Anyway, he would still have to go all the way from amegekure to the location of the cave, which for strange reasons hasn't moved for all those years. Can easily be confirmed btw. The location of the cave at your map is at those 3 small dots in the top middle of the map.

    About the byakugan, it was said to be the greatest dojutsu, I'm gonna have to look for it though, but it doesn't really matter, it was probably tenten. Fact is Kishi often have different characters say different things. Which is what my initial post was all about. So we can't always rely on information from one character. In the end if of course come from Kishi, but he can always change his mind, if he wants to, since he with ease can have a more knowledgeable character correct what he said earlier.
     
         

  23. #23
    Member l Sasuke Uchiha l's Avatar
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    Re: SOSP Family tree Revisited.

    Well its a good theory, but you cannot take what characters say as proof. For what they say is just myths and legends in the Naruto Universe that they live in, so they only say what they think.
     
         

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