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  1. #126
    IMMORTAL THREAD COG DeadManWonderLand's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Quote Originally Posted by sG Taka View Post
    Plot Protection or Plot-no-Jutsu (PnJ) does not exist in Narutoverse. Here are the main reasons as to why people claim Plot Protection or PnJ:
    • Their preferred character losses or is losing a fight.
    • The story arc of the manga is not going how they want it.
    • They can’t comprehend the totality of the whole plot.
    • They don’t account for character personalities and traits that do have an effect on the plot.


    To give out evidence, here are some of the most recent PnJ claims I’ve seen, disproved. I will also include an example of what a real PnJ is. Do not reply if you did not read as I will not answer.

    A Real Plot-no-Jutsu (non-existent):

    Naruto is fighting Pain and is about to die. Suddenly, Sasuke comes flying in and both saves Naruto and defeats Pain. He explains that he had encountered and defeated Itachi, and decided to come back to the village to see how things were going. Once he came back, he saw the situation and came to Naruto’s aid because he unprecedentedly changed his mind set and goals.

    Plot no Jutsus disproved:

    1.“OMG dude the Juubi could just wipe out everyone in the battlefield and then Madara and Obito could win! LOL Kishi is a stupid writer; plot hole and PnJ are so annoying!”

    • No, and the reason behind it is simple. Madara and Obito are alive and doing all that they have done to fulfill their only goal: Eye of the Moon Plan.
    • What is this? Also known as Infinite Tsukuyomi, the Eye of the Moon Plan is a very powerful genjutsu that can only be cast by the one who controls the Juubi. Its purpose is to entrap every living person in an illusion in order to make the world a better place by preventing war and hatred.
    • If they wipe out the whole Shinobi Alliance –taking note that already countless men and women have died as part of the war- the only people left would be elderly men, a few reconnaissance shinobi like Shikaku and Inoichi, and the children. Not worth the whole Eye of the Moon Plan, right? Exactly. Moving on.



    2.“PnJ is so annoying! UGH KISHI WTF!?? Madara could just annihilate Naruto and the others so easily!”

    • No, and again, the reason behind it is simple. You have to take into account that Madara has the attention span and attitude of a spoiled 5-year-old brat. This is why he fooled around with the Kages for I don’t know how many chapters before finally beating them. He also wants to toy around with the Juubi’s powers.
    • He tried to kill Naruto, Bee, Kakashi and Guy with many TTBs and Countless TTB’s but failed to do so. If you don’t like it, that your problem. However, it is not a plot hole or plot protection. That’s one of Madara’s weaknesses, his personality.



    3.“Tobi could have simply kidnapped Naruto during the Uchiha Clan Massacre.”

    No. Here are the reasons why:

    • The UCM occurred shortly after Obito’s attack on Konoha with the Kyuubi. During this attack, he kidnapped Kushina and held baby Naruto hostage. He extracted the beast from Kushina and ordered it to attack Konoha. His plan ultimately failed because Minato defeated him and sealed the Nine-tails into Naruto. Obito retreated.
    • He re-appeared during the UCM; however, this time with Itachi. Itachi let him aid in his massacre if he accepted to leave Konoha and Sasuke alone, Obito agreed.
    • If Obito had tried to kidnap Sasuke, Itachi would have come after him. Something nobody wants. Secondly, if Itachi somehow failed, Hiruzen would have realized Naruto had been kidnapped and would have gone immediately just as Minato did. The reason being because the Jinchuuriki is a crucial aspect for the high-elite of any village. The common people might shun him away, but the higher-ups know that the Jinchuuriki is a powerful asset to the village’s protection and attack power during any attack or war.



    Characters make mistakes, they have personalities which guide their actions and the plot has a storyline more than just senseless VS battle –that, in many cases, could never be carried out coherently as we think they would. If you believe in PnJ, you simple do not understand the manga in its totality.

    couldn't of had word it better myself.Glad to see there are people who understand the fundamentals of a plot + rep for also calling out the majority of fan boys on the base who regularly confuse plot device with their personal biased opinions on certain events in the manga.
     
         

  2. #127
    IMMORTAL THREAD COG DeadManWonderLand's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6DIVINExJUDGEMENT8 View Post
    this could easily be turned the other way...

    most people agreeing say that fan boys like to use "plot no jutsu" as an excuse for when their favorite character fails, but how do we know that this thread wasn't made just because "plot no jutsu" revolves around one of your favorite characters? iv'e seen some people agreeing here using it themselves when it benefits their argument and can also guarantee that most people agreeing are Naruto fan boys themselves, (since most "plot no jutsu" references revolve around Naruto's fights) and if this is the case with you, then you're as bad as any fan boy simply using it as a crutch for their favorite character's failures.

    but if you're not, then you need to be able to distinguish the difference between fan boys talking and people using logic when comparing both characters' skill set and then seeing how the fight itself went down. you can't just throw everyone under the same category of fanboyism just because "plot no jutsu" comes out of our mouths.

    plot does exist to move the story forward, but sometimes its painfully obvious how a character's power, smarts, and skill set seems to just disappear in order for the other to move forward. that's the only time when "plot no jutsu" can be sensibly used in a discussion. for someone putting others down i'd think you'd understand something like this but making a thread all pissed off just makes it seem like you're doing your best to protect whatever favorite character of yours is surrounded by the "plot no jutsu".

    Your just assuming he is doing this for that reason (not that your interpretation of his reasoning for doing so makes any sense)irregardless what he said is true and whatever bias opinion he may have does not make this statement any less true.
     
         

  3. #128
    Uchiha-Versteherin Kikki's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    What can I say? I 100 %ly agree. People really get mad when their characters lose a fight because something unpredictalble happens. And they will get mad when Madara and Obito lose. As I said somewhere else, most 'fans' here aren't true fans and only accept a character who hasn't lost yet. They get deeply offended and flame the author of the manga (as he'd read these flames) to get their will.

    In the end, the story goes Kishi's way and it will totally make sense once it's explained in his own words. People have to learn to accept it. The manga cannot go the way everbody wants it since it is a piece of art. You either like it and enjoy it or you dislike it but there won't be a voting, started by the artist, about how the majority wants it.
     
         

  4. #129
    IMMORTAL THREAD COG DeadManWonderLand's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6DIVINExJUDGEMENT8 View Post
    irregardless isn't a word -.-

    and if you took time to read, then you'd see i'm not directly saying that he's doing it for that reason.
    If it is not recognized as an official word but is nonetheless still used in universally by people in a prescriptive context :P

    Then what was the point of stating that ? If it has nothing to do with what he said then why even bring it up ?
    Your passively trying to debate his reason for this thread when it is clearly obvious what he is trying to get across and your statement is ignoring his entire point.
     
         

  5. #130
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6DIVINExJUDGEMENT8 View Post
    this could easily be turned the other way...

    most people agreeing say that fan boys like to use "plot no jutsu" as an excuse for when their favorite character fails, but how do we know that this thread wasn't made just because "plot no jutsu" revolves around one of your favorite characters? iv'e seen some people agreeing here using it themselves when it benefits their argument and can also guarantee that most people agreeing are Naruto fan boys themselves, (since most "plot no jutsu" references revolve around Naruto's fights) and if this is the case with you, then you're as bad as any fan boy simply using it as a crutch for their favorite character's failures.

    but if you're not, then you need to be able to distinguish the difference between fan boys talking and people using logic when comparing both characters' skill set and then seeing how the fight itself went down. you can't just throw everyone under the same category of fanboyism just because "plot no jutsu" comes out of our mouths.

    plot does exist to move the story forward, but sometimes its painfully obvious how a character's power, smarts, and skill set seems to just disappear in order for the other to move forward. that's the only time when "plot no jutsu" can be sensibly used in a discussion. for someone putting others down i'd think you'd understand something like this but making a thread all pissed off just makes it seem like you're doing your best to protect whatever favorite character of yours is surrounded by the "plot no jutsu".
    this is so true. U.U
     
         

  6. #131
    Member iiPyromaniac's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Regardless of the so-called "Plot no Jutsu" and it's existence, fact of the matter is characters will lose fights and more often than not it can be your favourite characters. There will be losses and there will be victories. It all depends on the fighting style of the characters and who they are matched up against. For example, if you pit a close range fighter against a long range fighter then the long range fighter will have the advantage of long-range jutsu whereas the close range fighter will have to try and draw their opponent into close range in order to actually land a successful attack on them. People who use plot no jutsu generally use it because things didn't turn out the way they wanted them to. It's like people who complain about how Sasori lost to Sakura and Granny Chiyo, yet they do not take into account that Sakura is a close range fighter cross medical ninja with monstrous strength, plus the addition of Chiyo who can be a close-range, mid-range or long-range fighter due to the nature of the puppet master jutsu. Basically, Plot no Jutsu can only exist if the situation is validated and reasonable. It is only validated and reasonable when a characters entire skillset and such disappears to move the story forward. Otherwise, the sole purpose of Plot No Jutsu is to give fanboys something to whine about.
     
         

  7. #132
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Awesome thread, I agree!
     
         

  8. #133
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    To me.....this whole "Plot no Jutsu" thing is a fad & a joke. Use to, a few ppl wld say it when they ran out of explanations and it was funny to say/read. Then it became a popular term being slung around more than poo in a monkey house on prune juice day! "Plot" does exist in Naruto. Thankfully it's not like [insert hated manga w/ horrible to no plot here]! Since enough childish, immature, ignorant or what have you- people on here have taken a liking to this saying, it's going to be around for awhile. Like that cheese log I ate earlier....it will linger around, slowly moving on until finally it's crapped out. So just wait long enough till the saying is burnt out and you wont hear ppl saying it anymore....because its just *poop* that ppl say when they've got nothing else
     
         

  9. #134
    Senior Member Mr.Beastie's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Quote Originally Posted by KGB Kakuzu View Post
    Hinata helping Naruto was because the person who had basically saved her from depression as well as the man she loved was in danger
    Yeah but its how pain delt with her that made it plot-no-jutsu.

    Pain pushed 3 huge frogs with huge swords on their back miles away from the village(probbaly weghed more than 20 tons). Yet why didnt he just do the same with hinata?
    Why did pain all of sudden feel the urge to stab her right in front of naruto. And he didnt even kill her?

    Then in the next few chapters you see pain try and push naruto but failed to because naruto ahd clones pushing him foward yet he could push 20 ton frogs miles from the village in an instant.
     
         

  10. #135
    IMMORTAL THREAD COG DeadManWonderLand's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6DIVINExJUDGEMENT8 View Post
    that sentence structure needs some fixing too :P

    my main point is that the term PnJ should not be viewed as just something used by fan boys for when their character fails. i recognize it but that doesn't make me a fan boy. i like the story, which is why i'm here, but i also like to look at these things with some logic. like i said, some fights have logic so obviously thrown out the window and this is why the term PnJ exists.

    i also said that there are 2 different type of people that agree with this thread...

    some genuinely just accept the story as it is and don't care in particular how the plot is moved forward, which is fine. others though are fan boys themselves that don't like this term simply because it revolves around their favorite character more than any other. OP could be either of the 2 but putting others down and not recognizing what PnJ really is makes it lean towards the latter.
    What pnj actually is,is plot device but i highly doubt most of the people posting pnj even know that since all they do is say plot no justu and then go on to complain about certain characters and how the story did not progess in the direction they wanted to.Plot devices are ket fundamentals to a story.People point out a plot device or pnj as it is called on narutobase and act if they have found a plot hole of some kind (You would be suprised on how many people alo get those terms confused)You say others should not correlate people saying pnj with them just complaining.

    Then what are they doing ? They do not like what transpired in the manga.And ? Of course everbody is not going to enjoy everything 100 percent but that is all anyone writes about when saying png so if the majority of people who say pnj do the following which is complain about characters or story progession then that is all people will associate with that term with.What other feasonable can you come up with for a person bringing up plot no justu other then to eventually go on about how they did not like how a particular thing went down ?I'll tell you.Expect nothing but the ladder to do so.
    The very reason for people invoking the term in a thread is to whine about something.


    Example " Yeah but that only happened because of plot no justu"
    What they think there saying. "Yeah,but that only happened because kishi made it so and under any other circumstance it would of went differently" as if to convey the story was going along and kishi screwed it up and changed it to fit the characters needs.

    What they are actually saying "Yeah,what transpired happened because kishi the author of the story wrote his story the way he envisioned it and i do not like it.
     
         
    Last edited by DeadManWonderLand; 12-07-2012 at 12:14 PM.

  11. #136
    IMMORTAL THREAD COG DeadManWonderLand's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Quote Originally Posted by sammypt View Post
    To me.....this whole "Plot no Jutsu" thing is a fad & a joke. Use to, a few ppl wld say it when they ran out of explanations and it was funny to say/read. Then it became a popular term being slung around more than poo in a monkey house on prune juice day! "Plot" does exist in Naruto. Thankfully it's not like [insert hated manga w/ horrible to no plot here]! Since enough childish, immature, ignorant or what have you- people on here have taken a liking to this saying, it's going to be around for awhile. Like that cheese log I ate earlier....it will linger around, slowly moving on until finally it's crapped out. So just wait long enough till the saying is burnt out and you wont hear ppl saying it anymore....because its just *poop* that ppl say when they've got nothing else
    Exactly it was a humorous and clever analogy to describe naruto that caught on and was passed around faster herpes.Soon it loss its meaning and was diminished to a saying that is only used to voice disapproval over the story line.
     
         

  12. #137
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    But it's brilliant, and catchy. The term.
     
         

  13. #138
    Member Uchiha Sutona's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    I feel like people try to think "outside the Box" when they think about naruto, but they fail to look at what they really are watching, or reading ( Anime or Manga ). They complicate everything and dont look at it in a simple way.
     
         

  14. #139
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    In other words, you do not like this Manga's story.

    bye bye
     
         

  15. #140
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    I agree + rep! Good points!
     
         

  16. #141
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    its been established that plot no justu doesn't exist. but im no fanboy
     
         

  17. #142
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    all animanga do have plot. they are all the same except for some weird anime makers where goodness does not succeed.
     
         

  18. #143
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    I hate it too when people claim that PnJ is a major part of Naruto.
    I believe that there may be some parts where the main characters were lucky but it is Kishi's story not mine... so PnJ does not exist, it is just some people who are not pleased with the outcome of the event.
     
         

  19. #144
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Thank u thank u thank you...seema like there is still some hope in this world!
     
         

  20. #145
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    This is true PNJ does not exist. Because if it did then the manga would make no sense what so ever with random people and fights coming out of no where
     
         

  21. #146
    Demon Sannin RasenUchihaChaos's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    im sure u say pnj exist if naruto lost or kakakshi gets killed by sasuke or next chapter madara and co. laucnh a brutal murderous counter attack
     
         

  22. #147
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

     
         

  23. #148
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    this guy disagrees lol i never even knew this existed lmao http://narutoscape.wikia.com/wiki/Plot_no_Jutsu
     
         

  24. #149
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    To me Plot-no-Jutsu happens when a character wins or survives when their should be no chance of them winning/surviving.

    Ex: Naruto beating Neji

    We all new Naruto was going to beat Neji in this fight simply because Naruto is the main character and Neji is just a hump for Naruto to overcome. So no matter how strong Neji was, how skilled he was, or how much of a genius he was said to have been; he still would have lost to Naruto simply because the plot demands it.
     
         

  25. #150
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    PnJ and Plot are 2 sides of the same coin, it needs to land on one of them. Sure, not everyone is going to be pleased exactly how the story goes, and some things in the manga don't technically make sense (to me anyway), so people express themselves and how it should go and slap the actual manga with PnJ while believing their version is the way it should go and say it's "accurate".

    Kishi is the writer so he decides what side the coin will land on. People will say it's not fair or right, but then they are just being sour. Like many said before me, just enjoy the manga. Yes, some things are spotty but Kishi isn't finished, he may be close but we don't know for sure. So until then I will be reading/enjoying the manga instead of nit-picking and over thinking the crap out of it because it isn't my creation which my feedback/complaints will inevitably do nothing. Oh, and it's free.
     
         

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