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  1. #121
    Member Rosco Wellington's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    I don't understand how people talk about plot in the storyline like its two different things. The plot IS the storyline! Geez some of you need to pick up a dictionary.

    Plot-Also called storyline. the plan, scheme, or main story of a literary or dramatic work, as a play, novel, or short story.

    If you don't like how the story goes dont read geeeeez
     
         

  2. #122
    Member hatake89's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Ahaha I honestly thought I was one of the very few people emphasis on few lol that thought PNJ was bulshit. But now I see i'm not alone (:
     
         

  3. #123
    The Legendary Devil Hunter Minator93's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Then explain the death of Tobirama Senju who had s/t and ET
     
         

  4. #124
    Get up, Survive, Go bed. Lonely Uchiha's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    this thread is full of people agreeing with you yet the majority of them use the very excuse you are arguing against. U.U
     
         

  5. #125
    Member hatake89's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Quote Originally Posted by minator93 View Post
    Then explain the death of Tobirama Senju who had s/t and ET
    No one really knows what went down at that time but my speculation is that S/T would've allowed him to escape but would've also allowed the ninja to continue pusuit of the others and also we don't know the extent of his S/T techs. Second to address edo tensei he would have to use dead bodies and getter DNA to use and with the fight at handprobably wouldn't of had time to do that and also it was said to be incomplete.
     
         

  6. #126
    IMMORTAL THREAD COG DeadManWonderLand's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Quote Originally Posted by sG Taka View Post
    Plot Protection or Plot-no-Jutsu (PnJ) does not exist in Narutoverse. Here are the main reasons as to why people claim Plot Protection or PnJ:
    • Their preferred character losses or is losing a fight.
    • The story arc of the manga is not going how they want it.
    • They can’t comprehend the totality of the whole plot.
    • They don’t account for character personalities and traits that do have an effect on the plot.


    To give out evidence, here are some of the most recent PnJ claims I’ve seen, disproved. I will also include an example of what a real PnJ is. Do not reply if you did not read as I will not answer.

    A Real Plot-no-Jutsu (non-existent):

    Naruto is fighting Pain and is about to die. Suddenly, Sasuke comes flying in and both saves Naruto and defeats Pain. He explains that he had encountered and defeated Itachi, and decided to come back to the village to see how things were going. Once he came back, he saw the situation and came to Naruto’s aid because he unprecedentedly changed his mind set and goals.

    Plot no Jutsus disproved:

    1.“OMG dude the Juubi could just wipe out everyone in the battlefield and then Madara and Obito could win! LOL Kishi is a stupid writer; plot hole and PnJ are so annoying!”

    • No, and the reason behind it is simple. Madara and Obito are alive and doing all that they have done to fulfill their only goal: Eye of the Moon Plan.
    • What is this? Also known as Infinite Tsukuyomi, the Eye of the Moon Plan is a very powerful genjutsu that can only be cast by the one who controls the Juubi. Its purpose is to entrap every living person in an illusion in order to make the world a better place by preventing war and hatred.
    • If they wipe out the whole Shinobi Alliance –taking note that already countless men and women have died as part of the war- the only people left would be elderly men, a few reconnaissance shinobi like Shikaku and Inoichi, and the children. Not worth the whole Eye of the Moon Plan, right? Exactly. Moving on.



    2.“PnJ is so annoying! UGH KISHI WTF!?? Madara could just annihilate Naruto and the others so easily!”

    • No, and again, the reason behind it is simple. You have to take into account that Madara has the attention span and attitude of a spoiled 5-year-old brat. This is why he fooled around with the Kages for I don’t know how many chapters before finally beating them. He also wants to toy around with the Juubi’s powers.
    • He tried to kill Naruto, Bee, Kakashi and Guy with many TTBs and Countless TTB’s but failed to do so. If you don’t like it, that your problem. However, it is not a plot hole or plot protection. That’s one of Madara’s weaknesses, his personality.



    3.“Tobi could have simply kidnapped Naruto during the Uchiha Clan Massacre.”

    No. Here are the reasons why:

    • The UCM occurred shortly after Obito’s attack on Konoha with the Kyuubi. During this attack, he kidnapped Kushina and held baby Naruto hostage. He extracted the beast from Kushina and ordered it to attack Konoha. His plan ultimately failed because Minato defeated him and sealed the Nine-tails into Naruto. Obito retreated.
    • He re-appeared during the UCM; however, this time with Itachi. Itachi let him aid in his massacre if he accepted to leave Konoha and Sasuke alone, Obito agreed.
    • If Obito had tried to kidnap Sasuke, Itachi would have come after him. Something nobody wants. Secondly, if Itachi somehow failed, Hiruzen would have realized Naruto had been kidnapped and would have gone immediately just as Minato did. The reason being because the Jinchuuriki is a crucial aspect for the high-elite of any village. The common people might shun him away, but the higher-ups know that the Jinchuuriki is a powerful asset to the village’s protection and attack power during any attack or war.



    Characters make mistakes, they have personalities which guide their actions and the plot has a storyline more than just senseless VS battle –that, in many cases, could never be carried out coherently as we think they would. If you believe in PnJ, you simple do not understand the manga in its totality.

    couldn't of had word it better myself.Glad to see there are people who understand the fundamentals of a plot + rep for also calling out the majority of fan boys on the base who regularly confuse plot device with their personal biased opinions on certain events in the manga.
     
         

  7. #127
    IMMORTAL THREAD COG DeadManWonderLand's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6DIVINExJUDGEMENT8 View Post
    this could easily be turned the other way...

    most people agreeing say that fan boys like to use "plot no jutsu" as an excuse for when their favorite character fails, but how do we know that this thread wasn't made just because "plot no jutsu" revolves around one of your favorite characters? iv'e seen some people agreeing here using it themselves when it benefits their argument and can also guarantee that most people agreeing are Naruto fan boys themselves, (since most "plot no jutsu" references revolve around Naruto's fights) and if this is the case with you, then you're as bad as any fan boy simply using it as a crutch for their favorite character's failures.

    but if you're not, then you need to be able to distinguish the difference between fan boys talking and people using logic when comparing both characters' skill set and then seeing how the fight itself went down. you can't just throw everyone under the same category of fanboyism just because "plot no jutsu" comes out of our mouths.

    plot does exist to move the story forward, but sometimes its painfully obvious how a character's power, smarts, and skill set seems to just disappear in order for the other to move forward. that's the only time when "plot no jutsu" can be sensibly used in a discussion. for someone putting others down i'd think you'd understand something like this but making a thread all pissed off just makes it seem like you're doing your best to protect whatever favorite character of yours is surrounded by the "plot no jutsu".

    Your just assuming he is doing this for that reason (not that your interpretation of his reasoning for doing so makes any sense)irregardless what he said is true and whatever bias opinion he may have does not make this statement any less true.
     
         

  8. #128
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    What can I say? I 100 %ly agree. People really get mad when their characters lose a fight because something unpredictalble happens. And they will get mad when Madara and Obito lose. As I said somewhere else, most 'fans' here aren't true fans and only accept a character who hasn't lost yet. They get deeply offended and flame the author of the manga (as he'd read these flames) to get their will.

    In the end, the story goes Kishi's way and it will totally make sense once it's explained in his own words. People have to learn to accept it. The manga cannot go the way everbody wants it since it is a piece of art. You either like it and enjoy it or you dislike it but there won't be a voting, started by the artist, about how the majority wants it.
     
         

  9. #129
    IMMORTAL THREAD COG DeadManWonderLand's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6DIVINExJUDGEMENT8 View Post
    irregardless isn't a word -.-

    and if you took time to read, then you'd see i'm not directly saying that he's doing it for that reason.
    If it is not recognized as an official word but is nonetheless still used in universally by people in a prescriptive context :P

    Then what was the point of stating that ? If it has nothing to do with what he said then why even bring it up ?
    Your passively trying to debate his reason for this thread when it is clearly obvious what he is trying to get across and your statement is ignoring his entire point.
     
         

  10. #130
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6DIVINExJUDGEMENT8 View Post
    this could easily be turned the other way...

    most people agreeing say that fan boys like to use "plot no jutsu" as an excuse for when their favorite character fails, but how do we know that this thread wasn't made just because "plot no jutsu" revolves around one of your favorite characters? iv'e seen some people agreeing here using it themselves when it benefits their argument and can also guarantee that most people agreeing are Naruto fan boys themselves, (since most "plot no jutsu" references revolve around Naruto's fights) and if this is the case with you, then you're as bad as any fan boy simply using it as a crutch for their favorite character's failures.

    but if you're not, then you need to be able to distinguish the difference between fan boys talking and people using logic when comparing both characters' skill set and then seeing how the fight itself went down. you can't just throw everyone under the same category of fanboyism just because "plot no jutsu" comes out of our mouths.

    plot does exist to move the story forward, but sometimes its painfully obvious how a character's power, smarts, and skill set seems to just disappear in order for the other to move forward. that's the only time when "plot no jutsu" can be sensibly used in a discussion. for someone putting others down i'd think you'd understand something like this but making a thread all pissed off just makes it seem like you're doing your best to protect whatever favorite character of yours is surrounded by the "plot no jutsu".
    this is so true. U.U
     
         

  11. #131
    Member iiPyromaniac's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Regardless of the so-called "Plot no Jutsu" and it's existence, fact of the matter is characters will lose fights and more often than not it can be your favourite characters. There will be losses and there will be victories. It all depends on the fighting style of the characters and who they are matched up against. For example, if you pit a close range fighter against a long range fighter then the long range fighter will have the advantage of long-range jutsu whereas the close range fighter will have to try and draw their opponent into close range in order to actually land a successful attack on them. People who use plot no jutsu generally use it because things didn't turn out the way they wanted them to. It's like people who complain about how Sasori lost to Sakura and Granny Chiyo, yet they do not take into account that Sakura is a close range fighter cross medical ninja with monstrous strength, plus the addition of Chiyo who can be a close-range, mid-range or long-range fighter due to the nature of the puppet master jutsu. Basically, Plot no Jutsu can only exist if the situation is validated and reasonable. It is only validated and reasonable when a characters entire skillset and such disappears to move the story forward. Otherwise, the sole purpose of Plot No Jutsu is to give fanboys something to whine about.
     
         

  12. #132
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Awesome thread, I agree!
     
         

  13. #133
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    To me.....this whole "Plot no Jutsu" thing is a fad & a joke. Use to, a few ppl wld say it when they ran out of explanations and it was funny to say/read. Then it became a popular term being slung around more than poo in a monkey house on prune juice day! "Plot" does exist in Naruto. Thankfully it's not like [insert hated manga w/ horrible to no plot here]! Since enough childish, immature, ignorant or what have you- people on here have taken a liking to this saying, it's going to be around for awhile. Like that cheese log I ate earlier....it will linger around, slowly moving on until finally it's crapped out. So just wait long enough till the saying is burnt out and you wont hear ppl saying it anymore....because its just *poop* that ppl say when they've got nothing else
     
         

  14. #134
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Quote Originally Posted by KGB Kakuzu View Post
    Hinata helping Naruto was because the person who had basically saved her from depression as well as the man she loved was in danger
    Yeah but its how pain delt with her that made it plot-no-jutsu.

    Pain pushed 3 huge frogs with huge swords on their back miles away from the village(probbaly weghed more than 20 tons). Yet why didnt he just do the same with hinata?
    Why did pain all of sudden feel the urge to stab her right in front of naruto. And he didnt even kill her?

    Then in the next few chapters you see pain try and push naruto but failed to because naruto ahd clones pushing him foward yet he could push 20 ton frogs miles from the village in an instant.
     
         

  15. #135
    IMMORTAL THREAD COG DeadManWonderLand's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6DIVINExJUDGEMENT8 View Post
    that sentence structure needs some fixing too :P

    my main point is that the term PnJ should not be viewed as just something used by fan boys for when their character fails. i recognize it but that doesn't make me a fan boy. i like the story, which is why i'm here, but i also like to look at these things with some logic. like i said, some fights have logic so obviously thrown out the window and this is why the term PnJ exists.

    i also said that there are 2 different type of people that agree with this thread...

    some genuinely just accept the story as it is and don't care in particular how the plot is moved forward, which is fine. others though are fan boys themselves that don't like this term simply because it revolves around their favorite character more than any other. OP could be either of the 2 but putting others down and not recognizing what PnJ really is makes it lean towards the latter.
    What pnj actually is,is plot device but i highly doubt most of the people posting pnj even know that since all they do is say plot no justu and then go on to complain about certain characters and how the story did not progess in the direction they wanted to.Plot devices are ket fundamentals to a story.People point out a plot device or pnj as it is called on narutobase and act if they have found a plot hole of some kind (You would be suprised on how many people alo get those terms confused)You say others should not correlate people saying pnj with them just complaining.

    Then what are they doing ? They do not like what transpired in the manga.And ? Of course everbody is not going to enjoy everything 100 percent but that is all anyone writes about when saying png so if the majority of people who say pnj do the following which is complain about characters or story progession then that is all people will associate with that term with.What other feasonable can you come up with for a person bringing up plot no justu other then to eventually go on about how they did not like how a particular thing went down ?I'll tell you.Expect nothing but the ladder to do so.
    The very reason for people invoking the term in a thread is to whine about something.


    Example " Yeah but that only happened because of plot no justu"
    What they think there saying. "Yeah,but that only happened because kishi made it so and under any other circumstance it would of went differently" as if to convey the story was going along and kishi screwed it up and changed it to fit the characters needs.

    What they are actually saying "Yeah,what transpired happened because kishi the author of the story wrote his story the way he envisioned it and i do not like it.
     
         
    Last edited by DeadManWonderLand; 12-07-2012 at 01:14 PM.

  16. #136
    IMMORTAL THREAD COG DeadManWonderLand's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    Quote Originally Posted by sammypt View Post
    To me.....this whole "Plot no Jutsu" thing is a fad & a joke. Use to, a few ppl wld say it when they ran out of explanations and it was funny to say/read. Then it became a popular term being slung around more than poo in a monkey house on prune juice day! "Plot" does exist in Naruto. Thankfully it's not like [insert hated manga w/ horrible to no plot here]! Since enough childish, immature, ignorant or what have you- people on here have taken a liking to this saying, it's going to be around for awhile. Like that cheese log I ate earlier....it will linger around, slowly moving on until finally it's crapped out. So just wait long enough till the saying is burnt out and you wont hear ppl saying it anymore....because its just *poop* that ppl say when they've got nothing else
    Exactly it was a humorous and clever analogy to describe naruto that caught on and was passed around faster herpes.Soon it loss its meaning and was diminished to a saying that is only used to voice disapproval over the story line.
     
         

  17. #137
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    But it's brilliant, and catchy. The term.
     
         

  18. #138
    Member Uchiha Sutona's Avatar
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    I feel like people try to think "outside the Box" when they think about naruto, but they fail to look at what they really are watching, or reading ( Anime or Manga ). They complicate everything and dont look at it in a simple way.
     
         

  19. #139
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    In other words, you do not like this Manga's story.

    bye bye
     
         

  20. #140
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    Re: Plot-no-Jutsu is Bullshit!

    I agree + rep! Good points!
     
         

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