Re: Susano DOESNT require Ama and tsu (proof)
meowNverse;939649 You actually proved yourself wrong .
Black Zetsu knows of it, so Madara most likely has Amaterasu.
Black Zetsu however, has never seen it in action, which is true, cause Madara died like 3 seconds after his creation.
ur right, Black Zetsu knew all about Amaterasu because he is Madara's will incarnate, but that doesn't mean Madara himself had it. We are talking about Madara here, he probably KNEW all the possible techs, but that doesn't necessarily mean he actually HAD those techs. So, it's possible Madara really only knew of it/heard of it and what happens but actually hadn't seen it before...?
and Black Zetsu, when he said "we might actually get to see Amaterasu" -- and this is from my view, how i see it so i'm not saying that i'm totally correct -- but it seems to be that he was just generally commenting that "it looks like we'll get to see it afterall." cuz first, he said "the air around Itachi is changing" and it was after that when he said "it looks like we'll see it afterall." So maybe he simply believed they may not see it--because remember, Black Zetsu knew everything and maybe he didn't think Itachi would use Amaterasu cuz it could one-shot kill Sasuke and he knew Itachi wouldn't do that, and i don't think that even Black Zetsu knew Itachi could put the black fire out--which would add credence to the idea that Madara didn't have Amaterasu but only knew of it
Madara showed some form of Tsukuyomi to Obito, so he has that jutsu as well.
and ur right, Madara showed Obito Tsukuyomi. BUT, remember that when Madara showed Obito the Tsukuyomi tech, Madara wasn't using HIS OWN EYES. because, remember, he gave HIS eyes to Nagato so he used another eye to show Obito the Tsukuyomi, so we really have no idea if he has Tsukuyomi from his own eyes, although i'm sure he does cuz i assume he'll be the one casting Infinite Tsukuyomi off the moon, unless he uses another eye, or if there's a special ritual, or they actually use the Juubi's power/eye to do it, we don't know yet.
Madara has perfect Susanoo.
i don't know how Madara having Perfect Susanoo has anything to do with what you're talking about, unless u just mentioned it to say u need Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi to unlock Susanoo... but it appears you need the Rinnegan for PS, not sharingan, apparently, although i can't say for sure one way or the other... but also just having Susanoo may not necessarily mean u have Amaterasu by default...
Susanoo is rare:
Obito said it was rare for MS users to unlock Susanoo.
Obito himself doesnt have it.
Shisui, as far as we know, doesnt have it either.
Also, it is again true what you say--it is rare for one to unlock Susanoo. The manga EXPLICITY says "only those who control the Double Mangekyou can awaken the third power, Susanoo." However, nowhere does it say that anyone who unlocks the double mangkeyou is gaurantee'd to awaken it nor does it say those who awaken Ama/Tsuku are gauranteed to awaken Susanoo. So, it could be that only those with Double Mangekyou even have the chance to unlock susanoo, but the mangekyou itself doesn't gaurantee it, so it is also possible having Ama/Tsuku doesn't gaurantee Susanoo either. So Obito/Shisui not having it could very well have absolutely nothing to do with the fact they don't have Ama/Tsuku... that's possible.
So yeah, you probably need Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, to unlock Susanoo.
I agree with OP that one may NOT need Ama/Tsuku to unlock Susanoo. However, i believe he came to that conclusion for the wrong reasons.
and i KNOW about that one page from the Databook, BUT the Databook is NOT 100% accurate, there's only 1 page that mentions it at all in the vicinity of having Tsukuyomi/Amaterasu, and it was only regarding Itachi cuz he was the ONLY one at that point that we knew about who had it. and that was a long time ago, and databooks are really only accurate to the day they come out cuz things change drastically from arc to arc and changes as plot develops.
So, i believe--and feel free to disagree but please don't get argumentative--that it's possible you don't need Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi to awaken Susanoo.
These are simply my thoughts and views, my observations and my opinions... Please don't flame me for my thoughts and opinions, but i do believe one may not need Amateraus and Tsukuyomi to awaken Susanoo. I think u just need Double Mangekyou, and even then i think you need to be special or have a special prowess to be able to awaken Susanoo once you do have the MS. i don't think all those with MS or all those with Ama/Tsuku can/do awaken Susanoo.
Again--these are my thoughts and opinions, and i use the word "Possibly" a lot because i'm NOT saying that i AM correct or that my thoughts and my way are RIGHT, this is just what i think from what i've seen and put together ok?