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  1. #1
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    Sound Training :)

    With Wesobi!
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    Alrighty, let's set the first steps to this long journey ahead of us!

    First, I'd like to discuss your knowledge of sound, what you know already.
    You can use wikipedia, or any other source before answering, just make sure to let me know what you understand and what you don't, so we can discuss that much before we start with anything. Sound is one of the more theoretical and scientific based elements (how we use it anyways), so I believe (as I told you before) that we need to take such an approach as well!
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    The very basic notion of sound to me is vibrating air particles that are stimulated in a wave until they reach our ears. There they make the mechanism in our ear vibrate in the same manner the air particles did, which is then translated into a "sound" in our brain. The way I see Sound Release is the as ability a ninja has to produce and manipulate the vibration of air particles around him, creating waves of sound around himself.

    The genjutsu properties of Sound rely on the same mechanism that translates the "sound" hears. In this case, the chakra transported in the sound technique lodges to the brain and is translated in whatever illusion the user performed.

    The destructive properties of Sound rely on the wave vibrating at the same frequency than the innate particles of a certain substance, which then disrupts it. In other words, by matching the sound we produce with the core of the substances, we can break them apart.

    Apart from that, I only know that sound moves at the speed of sound.
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    I split up your post in several quotes as to better explain each piece individually. It might be easier, as I found it hard myself at first to learn about sound. Notice how I might continue to blabber on but I want to make sure that you fully grasp the basic before we continue. I might just ignore what you said on first sight, but I try to incorporate or explain why you might be right/wrong in my explanation, I'm not ignoring it ^_^.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    The very basic notion of sound to me is vibrating air particles that are stimulated in a wave until they reach our ears. There they make the mechanism in our ear vibrate in the same manner the air particles did, which is then translated into a "sound" in our brain.
    I think you know what the basic is, but you sort of got it the other way around as to how I'm reading it right now.
    Let's start out with a wave, as it's the basic for almost everything sound related. To keep it simple, a wave is actually the process of energy moving from one point to another (depending on several factors). There are 2 kind of waves, mechanical and electromagnetic waves. The main difference is that mechanical waves need a medium to travel through, while electromagnetic waves don't (light, for example is an electromagnetic wave. As you know, it can move through space at roughly the same speed as it can through air, thus meaning it doesn't need a medium, considering it can also move through vacuum).

    So basically, from this we can conclude that what you said was sort of correct, but it should be the other way around. The wave (input of energy where it starts) moves through the air particles (it moves through the air because of vibration) to its end point (which would be the opponent his body/eardrum in our RP). Our body then takes that energy and sends it towards our brain through neural signals (which happens pretty much instantly) and we call it "sound".

    Now, the concept on sound depends on a few things. Mostly the medium through which it travels, the frequency and the vibrations. In your next reply, I'd like you to explain to me in your own words why these have to do with it, and what they have to do with it. If you really have no idea, or aren't sure and would like more information first, I'll gladly explain it instead of having you explain me your thoughts ^_^.

    As for this part, you did well! I hope my explanation helps out with it and didn't make it more complex.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    The way I see Sound Release is the ability a ninja has to produce and manipulate the vibration of air particles around him, creating waves of sound around himself.
    Good, though mind like I said before that it's not really the vibration of air particles (well, it vibrates the air particles, but it doesn't that's more a result than the initial effect!), as it can travel through any substance, not only gaseous ones. In essence though, I understand what you mean and you're correct.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    The genjutsu properties of Sound rely on the same mechanism that translates the "sound" hears. In this case, the chakra transported in the sound technique lodges to the brain and is translated in whatever illusion the user performed.
    Correct, kudos. Also note that, while visual genjutsus can simply be altered by avoiding direct contact with the eye, genjutsus through sound are much more difficult to avoid, although this is something I'm pondering on myself. If the opponent does not hear the sound, but the body still feels the vibration of the technique (due to sound touching the skin), do you think the genjutsu still takes place? It's known that vibrations can cause harm as well, not only the actual sound we hear (or the vibrations that reach the eardrum).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    The destructive properties of Sound rely on the wave vibrating at the same frequency than the innate particles of a certain substance, which then disrupts it. In other words, by matching the sound we produce with the core of the substances, we can break them apart.
    Pretty much, correct, though it doesn't have to be the same frequency. A higher frequency/lower frequency can have a numerous amount of effects as well, depending on what they are used against or for what purpose they are used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    Apart from that, I only know that sound moves at the speed of sound.
    Hmm, yes and no actually.

    Sound, moves at a different speed depending on the surface is goes through, so there isn't "a speed of sound" if you think about it, like there is a speed of light. The speed of sound (and the breaking of the sound barrier) is more or less a man made concept really. It's a bit hard to explain this part, since you could say the same about light... I think you know what I mean though, and if you don't, I'll elaborate!


    So, that's numero uno. If something is up/down, ask away!
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    Before we get into the task you asked me to do, let me tell you my thought on genjutsu (Because Biology I understand better than Physics xD). There's tree things that would stop a sound Genjutsu, and those are based on the process of getting a wave of sound (which carries your chakra) into your brain.

    Firstly, blocking the wave, preventing it from reaching your years. This comes from the inherit characteristics of sound waves, so it's more of your area than mine. But basically, if you isolate your ears from the sound wave, it can't produce it's effects. Stopping the chakra itself, maybe through fuuin or some sort of barrier should work fine. In a very basic manner, this would be the method one employs when covering one's ears.

    Secondly, destroying the sound receptors in the ear. Without them, the wave can't be captured/sensed, and the info or the chakra isn't transported to the brain. I don't think just having waves hit the body work, because soung genjutsus are not about the physic properties of sound and how it reacts to matter as a whole, just the sensors in the ear. This is the method one employs when one tries to pierce one's hears with a needle of something similar.

    Thirdly, mess with the brain itself. There's a syndrome called Agnosia, and a branch for sound reception. Basically there's two types of deafness, physical deafness, where you're unable to retrieve sound from the world (Second method, basically), and mental deafness, where you can retrieve sound from the exterior, but the area of your brain that translates it doesn't work, so the information can't be processed. People with sound agnosia can't be affected by sound genjutsu (or sound-based illusions). Someone proficient enough with genjutsu might be able to recreate agnosia. I even have a few jutsus that do just that xD

    Note, this is about actual genjutsu, not symptoms like making your opponent's ears bleed.



    Now, for your task. I don't know if I know how to explain it correctly, but it is quite obvious that passing through different substances alters the speed of sound propagation, but say why exactly is not my forte xD. I'm pretty sure is about different densities and all that sort, but if you could explain it more accurately, it'd be best. Btw, the sound speed was more of a joke, I knew about the speed thing, I just can't explain it well xD the light waves have different speeds to (I read about an experience where they managed to freeze light )
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    Just before we go on:

    - Bold means very important;
    - italic means good to know;
    - orange & italic are small assignments for your next reply.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    Before we get into the task you asked me to do, let me tell you my thought on genjutsu (Because Biology I understand better than Physics xD). There's tree things that would stop a sound Genjutsu, and those are based on the process of getting a wave of sound (which carries your chakra) into your brain.

    Firstly, blocking the wave, preventing it from reaching your years. This comes from the inherit characteristics of sound waves, so it's more of your area than mine. But basically, if you isolate your ears from the sound wave, it can't produce it's effects. Stopping the chakra itself, maybe through fuuin or some sort of barrier should work fine. In a very basic manner, this would be the method one employs when covering one's ears.

    Secondly, destroying the sound receptors in the ear. Without them, the wave can't be captured/sensed, and the info or the chakra isn't transported to the brain. I don't think just having waves hit the body work, because soung genjutsus are not about the physic properties of sound and how it reacts to matter as a whole, just the sensors in the ear. This is the method one employs when one tries to pierce one's hears with a needle of something similar.

    Thirdly, mess with the brain itself. There's a syndrome called Agnosia, and a branch for sound reception. Basically there's two types of deafness, physical deafness, where you're unable to retrieve sound from the world (Second method, basically), and mental deafness, where you can retrieve sound from the exterior, but the area of your brain that translates it doesn't work, so the information can't be processed. People with sound agnosia can't be affected by sound genjutsu (or sound-based illusions). Someone proficient enough with genjutsu might be able to recreate agnosia. I even have a few jutsus that do just that xD

    Note, this is about actual genjutsu, not symptoms like making your opponent's ears bleed.
    Alright, that seems like a pretty good way of reasoning and a good reasoning in itself as well. You're one of the pro's when it comes to genjutsu, so I can't argue as I don't see a flaw in it (and if I do, it seems like it's a fault on my part, not yours)!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    Now, for your task. I don't know if I know how to explain it correctly, but it is quite obvious that passing through different substances alters the speed of sound propagation, but say why exactly is not my forte xD. I'm pretty sure is about different densities and all that sort, but if you could explain it more accurately, it'd be best. Btw, the sound speed was more of a joke, I knew about the speed thing, I just can't explain it well xD the light waves have different speeds to (I read about an experience where they managed to freeze light )
    Well, there are 3 key things to sound waves.

    - Frequency
    - The medium it passes through
    - Additionally, vibrations. (note that this will be explained in the other two points)



    • Frequency

    First of all, a frequency is measured in Hertz. A frequency in theory is how many waves pass a certain point in a certain amount of time. So, basically, the lower the interval, the higher the frequency.



    Now, the cool thing is, adjusting the frequency. A higher frequency is a higher pitched tone, while a lower frequency is a lower pitched tone. If you listen to music and hear the bass, the frequency is lower. You can also feel it in your body a lot more than high frequency tones, because generally those are harder to perceive in the first place. The neat thing is, that this allows us to alter the effects of sound techniques by altering the frequency. That being said, you probably see how versatile sound actually can be, and how it can create different effects. Even if you can't hear something, the sound waves are still there and can still have effects on your body. A key example of this is my not-so-sanitary-custom (see spoiler below)



    Ototon: Kasshoku Bunsho - Sound Release: The Brown Note
    Type: supplementary
    Rank: C
    Range: Short - Long
    Chakra: 15
    Damage: /
    Description: First believed to be an urban legend, it took wesobi a long time next to an insane amount of effort and diapers to achieve completion on this technique. The user start by creating high power sound waves in his throat. The frequency is below 20 Hz, meaning that the human ear can’t hear it. Even though the human ear can’t hear it, the opponent his body will still feel the vibrations. The vibrations cause the opponent’s bowels to involuntarily work, and thus making the opponent lose control of their bowel movement. This results in content of the opponent’s bowels leaving his body. To counteract the effect on the user himself, he also focuses high frequency sound waves around his body, to counteract the effect.
    Note: Can only be taught by Wesobi
    Note: Can only be used once, unless used against members of the Akimichi clan, who eat an enormous amount of food compared to “normal” people. Against them, it can be used twice.
    Note: No other sound techniques in the same turn.


    Note that it says high power sound waves, not high frequency sound waves. There's a big difference.

    Anyways, I would like you to ask me some questions about this general effect (as to broaden both our knowledge) concerning frequencies. With what you just learned, it should be somewhat clear, but still it's nice to stay sharp on the subject.

    Oh, one more thing I'd like to add, and this is particularly useful against Mugi's Radio Frequency/Wave CE. Low frequency sound waves generally move easier through rocks/earth than higher frequency ones. Think about your cellphone, when you move through a tunnel, the reception sucks.

    • Substance it moves/passes through

    Now, realize that sound can move through any medium. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise! Though we needs some sort of limitations, and it's reasonable to say wind is a good counter to sound if it can be seen (doujutsu) or heard, but at that point it might be too late (depending on how a technique is used and how the effects are). Earth, however, depending on the situation (and the level of understanding of the usage by the opponent) can be a devastating counter as well.

    Now, look below:

    -Speed of sound:
    solid > liquid > gas.


    Sound moves fastes of all through solids. Generally, this is because the particles and atoms in earth are more tightly packed than they are in liquids or gas. So, the closer the atoms/molecules, the faster sound moves.

    - Elastic properties
    There is a catch in between different solids.
    Sound moves faster through rigid solids (i.e. steel, iron) than other things like jelly. This is because solids that are rigid generally mean that the atoms and molecules have a much stronger force of attraction towards each other than in other solids. This is because of the fact that, once moved, they move back to their original position/form more quickly (and thus resulting in a much higher vibration speed). jelly in this case has much weaker attraction between the molecules, that's why it's so "elastic" (not to be confused with elastic properties), and much more flexible.

    - Density
    Next to this, there is the density. Now, more dense substances = more mass. More mass=bigger molecules. Because sound is based on kinetic energy that travels from one point to another, moving through denser objects means it has to use more energy, seeing as it has to move (vibrate) larger molecules. This however is used for substances with the same elastic properties.

    To explain this take two examples with nearly the same elastic properties. Gold and aluminum (Gold = 10.8 psi; aluminum = 10 psi). While they nearly have the same elastic properties, gold is much denser, so it will travel faster through aluminum than gold.

    Another funny thing is, this effect does not quite work the same in gaseous media.

    Let's say it's hot hot hot in one side of the room, and cold cold cold in the other side. The logic explanation is that sound would move faster in the cold air (since it's denser), but that isn't the case!


    Heat, like sound is a source of kinetic energy. More heat = More kinetic energy = more energy for the sound. This leads up to the fact that they can vibrate faster in hot air.


    So that's it for part two. I think I covered everything. If you need additional information, let me know. I'll get on with going through sound in the narutoverse after this part.
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    In the electromagnetic spectrum, the higher frequencies are also associated with higher energy. Is that the same with sound, we're increasing the energy as we increase the frequency? Also, are we able to freeform alter the frequency of our sound jutsus (Nothing too major, or conflicting with the description of the jutsu). I'd see it similar to having water cooler or hotter, or changing the polarity of a lightning jutsu (Which, now that I think about it, may not be a good example as it might not be permitted).

    We can also hear more acutely the higher frequency notes, but we can hear the lower frequency at a greater distance, f I'm not mistaken. And since low frequencies can go through denser materials, it gives a good range of frequencies to apply to whichever opponent we're facing. Higher frequencies are also more "damaging" than low. We can handle sub-par vibrations, but we can't handle past a certain high frequency, so if I'd say, if we want a sudden and intense effect, with great destructive ability, we go for High frequency. If we want a more subtle and resistant effect, or maybe a more encompassing and richer tone, we go for the low frequencies.

    Would you please to add on High vs Low Frequency topic? I don't even know if what I said already is really correct xD


    About the heat vs cold, i didn't knew that. I've been using heat from fire jutsus to disrupt the air and thus disrupt the sound wave, but it might just increase the effect. Is that true, or was my depiction correct? I mean, in a way, we are messing with the sound wave, which was chakra created to fulfill certain effects, so we might still be disrupting it.



    As for the training. It's progressing well. I'm learning a lot, you're very descriptive in your answers and you seem to be able to answer all my questions.
     
         

  8. #8
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    Re: Sound Training :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    In the electromagnetic spectrum, the higher frequencies are also associated with higher energy. Is that the same with sound, we're increasing the energy as we increase the frequency? Also, are we able to freeform alter the frequency of our sound jutsus (Nothing too major, or conflicting with the description of the jutsu). I'd see it similar to having water cooler or hotter, or changing the polarity of a lightning jutsu (Which, now that I think about it, may not be a good example as it might not be permitted).

    We can also hear more acutely the higher frequency notes, but we can hear the lower frequency at a greater distance, f I'm not mistaken. And since low frequencies can go through denser materials, it gives a good range of frequencies to apply to whichever opponent we're facing. Higher frequencies are also more "damaging" than low. We can handle sub-par vibrations, but we can't handle past a certain high frequency, so if I'd say, if we want a sudden and intense effect, with great destructive ability, we go for High frequency. If we want a more subtle and resistant effect, or maybe a more encompassing and richer tone, we go for the low frequencies.
    To answer your first question, yes. A higher frequency means higher energy (The higher the frequency, the lower the intervals and thus more energy that passes at a single point at one point in time).

    However!!!!!)
    By increasing the amplitude (peak-to-peak) of a low frequency wave, you can give it the same amount of energy.

    I have been told that we can alter the frequency (nothing drastic, as you said), but I wondered: wouldn't that change the sound and thus the effect of the technique? In this case, changing the amplitude is much more efficient but that means the energy amount is higher and it would change the rank. So in theory, nope, but practically speaking (in our RP system) we can do it without much further problems (sound isn't really that well thought out, given that they did not copy it directly from the anime. That makes issues occur, like with the sharingan copying technique).

    As for the the "hearing low frequency waves from further", I don't really see why that would be true. It has less energy, and thus it takes more time to transfer between particles (atoms/molecules). That being said, it needs to have enough energy to actually even move through large amounts of space in the first place. High frequency tones are much more fitting for that, given how kinetic energy works.

    High frequency can be (although this isn't proven yet to a high extent) more damaging, yes. The only issue is, you need to generate very high frequency tones for this. We're talking about ultrasound here. That means, everything above 20 kilohertz (20k hertz), and thus above the human hearing range. Of course there are things like sonic grenades and all of that, I can't disagree there. However, low frequency can also be used to generate things like nausea.

    Think of it this way:
    - High frequency = damaging
    - Low frequency = crowd-control and disorientation.


    Scrolling back up, I noticed you said that. LOL. More elaboration I guess!

    Could you give me two uses (1 for high and one for low frequency) on how you would use them in battle? Perhaps even combined (two seperate jutsus, a combo if you will). No need for cannon ones, let yourself roam free.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    Would you please to add on High vs Low Frequency topic? I don't even know if what I said already is really correct xD
    Read above, I think! o_o unless you want more elaboration!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    About the heat vs cold, i didn't knew that. I've been using heat from fire jutsus to disrupt the air and thus disrupt the sound wave, but it might just increase the effect. Is that true, or was my depiction correct? I mean, in a way, we are messing with the sound wave, which was chakra created to fulfill certain effects, so we might still be disrupting it.
    You were correct, but for another reason. The RP is only up to a certain extent busy with actual physics. that being said, we need to be a bit more flexible on our usage as the sound isn't up to extent it could be used, and a bit manipulated to fit our RP. I think I'm one of the few sound users to use sound to it's full potential (thanks to Xylon and reading mugi's usage). This because lately, our RP has evolved to include physics much more. So in theory, heat from fire jutsus, could be used against you, but i'd say if the fire is of a higher rank, it could potentially "leech" the kinetic energy off the sound and dampen it to some extent, though that probably won't happen. Also, remember, the heat from your techniques generally travel against the the sound (they clash), while sound moves fowards in heat which is most of the time "stationary" so to say. That being said, it could fully well even backfire on the opponent, depending on the ranks of both techiques. The easiest counter always will be wind. Sound waves are used mostly through the air in our RP, and disrupting the wind flow can thus disrupt the way it moves and screw it up. What do you think about yourself?
     
         

  9. #9
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    Re: Sound Training :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesobi View Post
    To answer your first question, yes. A higher frequency means higher energy (The higher the frequency, the lower the intervals and thus more energy that passes at a single point at one point in time).

    However!!!!!)
    By increasing the amplitude (peak-to-peak) of a low frequency wave, you can give it the same amount of energy.

    I have been told that we can alter the frequency (nothing drastic, as you said), but I wondered: wouldn't that change the sound and thus the effect of the technique? In this case, changing the amplitude is much more efficient but that means the energy amount is higher and it would change the rank. So in theory, nope, but practically speaking (in our RP system) we can do it without much further problems (sound isn't really that well thought out, given that they did not copy it directly from the anime. That makes issues occur, like with the sharingan copying technique).

    As for the the "hearing low frequency waves from further", I don't really see why that would be true. It has less energy, and thus it takes more time to transfer between particles (atoms/molecules). That being said, it needs to have enough energy to actually even move through large amounts of space in the first place. High frequency tones are much more fitting for that, given how kinetic energy works.

    High frequency can be (although this isn't proven yet to a high extent) more damaging, yes. The only issue is, you need to generate very high frequency tones for this. We're talking about ultrasound here. That means, everything above 20 kilohertz (20k hertz), and thus above the human hearing range. Of course there are things like sonic grenades and all of that, I can't disagree there. However, low frequency can also be used to generate things like nausea.

    Think of it this way:
    - High frequency = damaging
    - Low frequency = crowd-control and disorientation.


    Scrolling back up, I noticed you said that. LOL. More elaboration I guess!

    Could you give me two uses (1 for high and one for low frequency) on how you would use them in battle? Perhaps even combined (two seperate jutsus, a combo if you will). No need for cannon ones, let yourself roam free.



    Read above, I think! o_o unless you want more elaboration!



    You were correct, but for another reason. The RP is only up to a certain extent busy with actual physics. that being said, we need to be a bit more flexible on our usage as the sound isn't up to extent it could be used, and a bit manipulated to fit our RP. I think I'm one of the few sound users to use sound to it's full potential (thanks to Xylon and reading mugi's usage). This because lately, our RP has evolved to include physics much more. So in theory, heat from fire jutsus, could be used against you, but i'd say if the fire is of a higher rank, it could potentially "leech" the kinetic energy off the sound and dampen it to some extent, though that probably won't happen. Also, remember, the heat from your techniques generally travel against the the sound (they clash), while sound moves fowards in heat which is most of the time "stationary" so to say. That being said, it could fully well even backfire on the opponent, depending on the ranks of both techiques. The easiest counter always will be wind. Sound waves are used mostly through the air in our RP, and disrupting the wind flow can thus disrupt the way it moves and screw it up. What do you think about yourself?
    I was basing it on like, when you have music on a car, as it drives away from you, the tone gets lower. Or in a concert, the further away from it, the lower you hear the music. But I guess that's due to the lower frequencies traveling better.

    We pretty much covered the usages of low and high frequencies, unless you want me to post jutsus, which I'd rather not yet. Basically, if I'm relatively close to the opponent, and want something fast and effective, I'd use an higher frequency jutsu, like you said, a sound grenade of sorts. If I'm further away or don't require a more instant effect, I'd use lower frequencies, to mess with my opponent (And I think I'll use them a lot).

    In the matter of combinations, I'd use the first with something quick, maybe a thrown projectile or even taijutsu, or something like lightning. Strike fast with the sound, strike faster with something accurate and deadly. Or even use it to damage my opponent and allow me for a quick escape, providing enough distractions. For the lower frequencies, I'd maybe use them in combination with other slow acting jutsus, something like fire or biological warfare elements, to enhance the effects mutually or at least confuse the opponent from the source of the problem, masking one or the other. I'd also use it after binding the opponent, as it is quite "damaging" in itself.

    I agree with you. Since fire has such a direct effect on sound, it should be at least neutral, so jutsu of the same rank would at least counter each other.
     
         

  10. #10
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    Re: Sound Training :)

    I've been thinking about it the same way really, and also been thinking sound can be used as a distraction. Say we're able to create a sound that moves faster than the speed of sound (while this is virtually impossible for us to do, but theoretically speaking). How would you use the so called "breaking of the sound barrier"?
     
         

  11. #11
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    Re: Sound Training :)

    Moving faster than the sound, in my mind, means moving faster than the particles can vibrate without much distortion, so when an object moves faster than the sound, it creates a sonic boom, which I was always believed to be a violent explosion of air that condensates quickly (creating a cloud ring and trail around and behind the object moving faster than sound). A wave of sound that moves faster than sound, I'd say would act like a air pressure gun, albeit faster and a bit more damaging xD
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    Well, I have to go in a bit more on it.

    The speed of sound is the speed sound waves can achieve in a certain environment, certain conditions/situations, etc. An object that is capable of moving beyond that speed is what breaks the sound barrier/creates a sonic boom. Sound itself can't move faster than sound.

    Anyways, too bad, the idea behind it could indeed be quite destructive.

    Now, I think we covered the basic knowledge for now. If you're ready, I'd like to continue towards the connection in the narutoverse and start working on jutsus.
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    Yes please
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    Right, well there are many theories as to why (and we're not even certain) wind and lightning make up sound. The cutting/speeding ability would come from wind. The vibrating nature from lightning, while this also adds to the speed.

    The thing is with sound, that you need extremely well balanced chakra. If you put in too much air, you can cut your vocal cords, and too much lightning... that speaks for itself.

    Of course, you know as well as I do that the RP is related to this, and not the actual narutoverse as sound isn't even a real kekkei genkai.

    Nonetheless, the anime/manga shows us a very versatile usage of sound. We're going to try and recreate that versatility in our way of RP'ing by thinking out of the box, but that's for later on.

    Now (going through standard stuff, it's boring but needs to be done), try sending out a small sound wave (out of your mouth) that acts as a sonar and bounces off a random tree I just happen to come up with to your left.
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    I mold my chakra to the tip of my tongue, and let out a sonar wave outwards. As it collides with a tree, it is bouced back, which I discern in my left ear. Based on the time it took for it to come back to me, I start to associate it with the visible distance I see the tree, and start to make up a pattern to get it translated more instinctively.
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    I was probably unclear, but using your vocal cords to generate sound and input the chakra there would be more efficient, as it's the basis for our sound jutsus most of the time. Try again.

    Also, your signature is disturbing. go with Andy Whitfield or Stephen Amell!
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    They're hot, but I'm likin my signature

    *tries again, now using my vocal cords*
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    *You add too much wind chakra and your vocal cords get sliced to pieces*

    *inserts new vocal cords, and patches you up*

    Try again o_o

    (oh yes, I'm lame, I know it)
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    Oh come on -_-

    *uses body of lucifer to repair the damage*

    *tries again, moderating the usage of wind chakra*
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    haha, ok I've had my fun now.



    (Ototon: Himei Zetsubou no Jutsu) - Sound Release: Scream of Despair Skill
    Rank: C
    Type: Supplementary/Defense
    Range: Short-Mid
    Chakra Cost: 15
    Damage Points: N/a
    Description: The user concentrating chakra into their vocal cords enhancing throat chakra lets out a scream that travels extremely fast in which can be used to deflect projectiles and send opponents flying.
    Note: Travels at 315 speed

    The first jutsu. Tada.
    Mostly, this is used as a defensive one to block incoming things, though in my opinion this is not really how sound should be used. You could use a wind jutsu for the same effect. If you use this, i'd recommend using it as an offensive weapon to increase the speed of your kunai, while it continues towards the opponent itself as well and sends them flying.

    Any thought?
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    It's like the black canary cry... But yeah, I agree with you. What exactly is the effect of this, though? Is this just a wind jutsu made sound? Can we pop our opponent's eardrums? Can we cause a nausea effect by lowering the frequency?
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    I learned so much from this thread @_@
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lili-Chwan View Post
    It's like the black canary cry... But yeah, I agree with you. What exactly is the effect of this, though? Is this just a wind jutsu made sound? Can we pop our opponent's eardrums? Can we cause a nausea effect by lowering the frequency?
    Black canary cry, from the cartoon I take it (the only thing I found on youtube and it seemed unlikely a bird would do this LOL).

    I agree that it's just a more wind-based sound jutsu. I don't see the use of it, as I said before, as you could just blow a gust of wind away. The difference is that it can't be seen with the naked eye and it's way, way faster. The effects itself aren't all that big. Don't expect any permanent or high damage on the opponent his body, as it's a weak sound technique and it isn't designed for hurting people. It can be used excellently, with things like Stone Spikes and such in a combination though. I would say you can't nauseate people with this jutsu. It would make it too powerful for a C-rank jutsu that moves so fast. Like I said, you need to keep in mind the actual power of the jutsu and limit how much you can edit it by changing the frequency. The problem is that you could do it, but I have a morally ill feeling in my gut right now if I'd say "yes, you can do that". It's making a normal jutsu so much more stronger than it was designed to be, but I guess that's just being creative. Also, by lowering the frequency, you lower the speed a lot and thus you might not be able to bounce back anything in the first place, making a totally different jutsu.

    anything else?



    Quote Originally Posted by Darui.. View Post
    I learned so much from this thread @_@
    I could teach you how to not post in training threads, the hard way? >_>
    Seriously though, shoo!
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesobi View Post
    Black canary cry, from the cartoon I take it (the only thing I found on youtube and it seemed unlikely a bird would do this LOL).

    I agree that it's just a more wind-based sound jutsu. I don't see the use of it, as I said before, as you could just blow a gust of wind away. The difference is that it can't be seen with the naked eye and it's way, way faster. The effects itself aren't all that big. Don't expect any permanent or high damage on the opponent his body, as it's a weak sound technique and it isn't designed for hurting people. It can be used excellently, with things like Stone Spikes and such in a combination though. I would say you can't nauseate people with this jutsu. It would make it too powerful for a C-rank jutsu that moves so fast. Like I said, you need to keep in mind the actual power of the jutsu and limit how much you can edit it by changing the frequency. The problem is that you could do it, but I have a morally ill feeling in my gut right now if I'd say "yes, you can do that". It's making a normal jutsu so much more stronger than it was designed to be, but I guess that's just being creative. Also, by lowering the frequency, you lower the speed a lot and thus you might not be able to bounce back anything in the first place, making a totally different jutsu.

    anything else?




    I could teach you how to not post in training threads, the hard way? >_>
    Seriously though, shoo!
    I was thinking of using it as a more constant scream. Like, inhale deeply and then scream for as long as I have breath, in a low or high frequency, and thus affect my opponent in the way I said. Throughout the duration of the scream I would accumulate damage to my opponent's ears and wouldn't be unheard of that I make him nauseated or pop his ears with a C rank. Maybe I wouldn't be able to liquefy my opponent's brain (like one would expect by a too high/powerful of a sound) but I should have some flexibility in the damage output if I extend the shout (My problem with sound is the instantaneous damage output of sound techniques, not the potential behind it). What do you think?

    Ps: This accepting the loss of wind-like characteristics such as projectile impact and etc
     
         

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    Re: Sound Training :)

    It sounds like a nice idea, but when I read it I feel more like it's a CJ-idea than actually altering the technique, considering the fact that it pretty much changes the entire purpose of the jutsu. There's also other jutsus that actually make the ears of the opponent bleed and such (cannon) and make them dizzy/nauseated.
     
         

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