Page 1 of 4 1234 Last»
Results 1 to 25 of 99
  1. #1
    The Demon of NB DemonicAvenger's Avatar
    Status
    DemonicAvenger is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    My Room; Getting High and Playing Devil May Cry
    Posts
    2,550
    Post Thanks / Like
    I Have Achieved True
    Immortality. I Am Eternal.
     

    Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    The Title is an attention getter. Apparently you Narutobase-ees like these threads.

    In this thread I will show how Naruto is superior to Edo Madara. This thread is not like Negative Knight's where he shows both sides way of winning.

    The sole purpose of this thread is to show Naruto > Edo Madara


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As with my post on the Itachi vs. Minato thread, I will break this down into Scenarios of Combat. The following Scenario's Assume that PIS/CIS is off, And that were fighting under Standard Conditions of Battle which I will now outline.


    Both are Fresh and fully rested
    Full Intel
    Grassy Plain
    30 Meters Distance


    These are the Scenarios of Battle that I will outline

    -CQC
    -Mid Range
    -Long Range
    -Extra Bits


    Vocabulary:

    RM or Rikudo Mode = KM, KCM, Kyuubi Mode
    S-RM or Shin-Rikudo Mode = KM2 or KCM2
    Shin-Susano'O = Perfect Susano'O

    Biju Mode will be referred to as it is normally

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    *Sealing is explained in the Extra Bits Section

    CQC:

    In CQC Naruto has a few notable advantages that would give Naruto the Edge in a Straight hand to hand fight. He even has the ability to make it through Susano'O to continue his assault on Madara.

    Neither Combatant has an overwhelming lead in Taijutsu Skill. Madara took on Alliance members with Ease while Naruto has been trained in formal martial arts. Sharingan would undoubtably give Naruto Headaches, but the is remidied by Rikudo Mode or Shin-Rikudo Mode Kage Bunshin and a Shunshin that escapes even Madara's eyes. There are three main focal points to Naruto CQC hand to hand offence.

    - His Chakra Enhanced Punch that Knocked away Bijudamas
    - Kage Bunshin Shenanigans
    - Kurama's Ability to break Naruto out of Genjutsu

    If Madara is inside his Susano'O (Bar Shin-Susano'O) Naruto is Capable of Breaking threw with his Chakra Enhanced punch. These can be done in succesion to ensure that he gets through without a hitch. Naruto from here only needs to land one of these Chakra enhanced punches to put Madara in a dead state and proceed to seal. Naruto can easily accomplish this with even his Base Running speed as Madara is incapable isnt capable of putting distance between himself and Naruto. Naruto also has Chakra Limbs to land light blows on Madara, As Chakra limbs arnt subject to Sharingan pre-cog. The trickies part of this is watching for Preta Path. Naruto has two ways to deal with this.

    - Timing his punch very carefully in a position where Madara isn't using Preta Path (Possibly with Shunshin or in tandum with his Kage Bunshin
    - Sage Kage Bunshin

    A sage Kage Bunshin would completely bypass Preta Path with the Shock Wave of its Punch. Preta Path would also become a hinderance if Madara starts to Absorb Senjutsu Chakra.

    Naruto may have to deal with Moku Bunshin while in CQC. These would be dealt with By Sage Kage Bunshin or by S-RM Kage Bunshin. Sage Clones could grab hold of them (even if they are in Susano'O) and use their physical strength to toss them away from the battlefield similar to how Naruto tossed the Rhino Summon in the Pain fight.

    Naruto (or any Kage Bunshin in an RM mode) can force the fight into a CQC fight with Shunshin.

    Madara will be disarmed of his fan if he chooses to defend against Naruto's Taijutsu.

    Any Attempt at Genjutsu will end in Failure due to Kurama being able to free Naruto relatively easily. Also, if Madara targets the Kage Bunshin, then the attempt will be for naught and be wasted as Kage Bunshin arn't affected by genjutsu.

    Mid-Range:

    At Mid-Range Naruto has quite a few more things to worry about than if the fight was up close, But being at Mid-Range also opens up some new doors for Naruto that would arguably make him more deadly and force the fight in his favor.

    Naruto now has to worry about:


    -MokuRyu
    -Shin-Susano'O

    Naruto can now use:

    -Biju Mode
    -Bijudama (and variants)


    MokuBunshin would be a contiued worry here. Naruto has the options of letting his Kage Bunshin continue to combat them(he needs them less now that hes has some distance) or he can pull Onoki's Trick but this time with Bijudama. Although the previous method is perfered and more reliable.

    Putting Madara in a dead State is accomplish-able in a word. Bijudama. Bijudama has enough chakra to overload Preta path and put Madara's Edo Tensei Body in a "dead" state. If Madara is in Shin-Susano'O then Continous Bijudama, Flash Bijudama, or Perfect Bijudama (the Bijudama that Naruto and Killer Bee used against the Juubi in vain) to achieve the same effect.

    Please Refer to the post in the Spoiler for an explanation to Edo Tensei's Chakra features and how much preta is able to absorb


    Edo Tensei Chakra:


    When Madara was Freed from the Edo Tensei Covenant he Stated that Edo Tensei's have and Infinte Amount of Chakra. People have Taken this to mean that And Shinobi Resurected With Edo Tensei can Spam Jutsu's and make them much more powerful that they normally would.

    This is False, While The Edo Tensei Bodies do have an unlimited amount of Resouces from which to make chakra they cannot Knead or release more chakra than there body could before resurection (or however much their body could in the state it was ressurected in.

    I Base this on The Fact that Muu was incapable of Using Jinton after being split.
    After Being Split the amount of chakra he could release/Knead was effectivly cut in half.

    Further Proof on the fact that only a certain amount of chakra can be kneaded/Released by any certain person is proven by Naruto's Learning of the Rasengan. He had to Train his Chakra Ciculatory System to Knead more chakra and Also be able to release and sustain more chakra (the Second Step of the Training is an excellent example)


    So In conclusion, Yes Edo Tensei Bodies have the Resouces to Continously Make Chakra, Yet the ninja Cannot Knead/Release more chakra than when they could in their life.

    References:

    Madara's Statement on Edo Tensei:
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/591/17

    Muu's Edo Body Failing to use Jinton:
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/560/7

    Naruto's Rasengan Training:
    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-157-9/n...apter-152.html



    Preta Path:


    Preta Path has the ability to Abosorb Ninjutsu and Render them useless. This is done by taking in the Chakra and spinning the chakra until it is steralized (this is stated in the databook but i couldn't find the page to save my life) The Chakra does not go to the Preta path users chakra reservers but instead literally becomes nothing (for the lack of a better of a better way to put it)


    I find that this is done by opening the Tenketsu and allowing the jutsu to flow into the user's Chakra Ciruclatory system (The opposite of Kaiten in a way) The Chakra is then Spun until it becomes sterile.

    Now there's Two Factors that dictate how much the user can Absorb and how fast they can absorb it.

    1. The Amount of Chakra that the User can Knead/Release

    2. The User's Skill in Chakra Control

    The Amount of Chakra that the User Can Knead/Release Dictates the amount of Chakra that The user of Preta Path can allow into their Chakra System at one time. Chakra being absorbed must be spun and sterilized to allow more to enter the system, This is where the User's Skill in Chakra Controll comes into play. The user's Chakra Control Dicates the Speed at which they can spin the absorbed chakra and therfore means that the better chakra control they have the faster they sterilize the absorbed chakra. The Use of the Barrier when using Preta Path means that the user has either worse Chakra control or cannot Knead/Release as much Chakra as one that does not have to use the barrier. Meaning that the path that used preta in the six paths of Pain cannot absorb as much chakra as Madara or Nagato.




    References:



    By my own Opinions, Calculations, and Assumptions on the above i will give what i believe to be the end of the "Preta vs Bijudama" Debate.


    This is done from the persepctive that the Preta user is standing still with absolutly nothing in the way of Bijudama, This is purely Preta vs. Bijudama (single form, Not any of the higher versions)

    Path that used Preta in the Six paths of Pain: Would be able to absorb a decent chunk of Bijudama but would it would be in futility, The likes of this path body will never be found again.

    Madara: Would be Able to Absorb a very large Chunk of it. But this would also not be enough to survive. Madara's Edo Body is Going to Need a Few Minutes to Regerate.

    Nagato: Nagato would be able to absorb almost the entire Bijudama. The Result after the clash would be Nagato absorbing just enough to allow him to tank what was left of it. Leaving him With Serious Burns, Scrapes, Fractured bones, and just genrally beat up.


    *Note: Perfect Bijudama can be accomplished by using a BM Kage Bunshin in the Place of Bee, although this Jutsu is not required.

    At this Range, Madara would likely decide to use Shin-Susano'O. Naruto has a multitude of ways to counter just about anything that Madara can do in this form.

    Naruto is capable of compleletly shielding himself from Perfect Susano'O's Slash by covering himself in his chakra tails. These Tails were able to block the Juubi's weakend laser Bijudama and no harm came to Naruto. The Perfect Susano'O's Slash would be largely ineffective and cause almost no damage to Naruto, While Naruto is capable of putting Perfect Susano'O and Madara out of commision with Continous Bijudama or Flash Bijudama.

    Naruto can also help enlist the help of Gamabunta and his cohorts against Perfect Susano'O or Help tidy up the battlefield against the MokuBunshin. Ma and Pa are a focal point of actually beating Madara as Naruto has to Land Gama Ranbu to win this fight. This can be done before or after Madara is put into a "Dead" State.

    Essentially when Gama Ranbu lands, Its GG Madara.

    Naruto at this range also has to worry about MokuRyu, as its the only Mokuton that will be capable of Restraining BM. Naruto has a few options when dealing with this. He can..

    A) Use Bijudama or some other Jutsu to destroy it
    B) If he happens to be captured by it, he can do what he did previously and use ShunShin to escape.

    Although B will probably wont be needed as Naruto has full intel in this situation and will know to destroy the Dragon before it gets close.


    Long Range:
    This is where Madara is put at the biggest Disadvantage. At this range projectiles are the only thing worth while and Madara is sorely outmatched here.

    All Madara has to rely on is his Shin Susano'O Slashes, Which Naruto is already capable or overpowering or blocking at Mid-Range.


    Other Bits:

    - Naruto can neutralize any of Madara's Katons with his RM or S-RM Cloak.

    - Naruto can seal Madara with the following method: After Madara has been caught by Gama Ranbu, Ma and Pa can then Reverse Summon him to mount myoboku. From there they will drop him in the toad oil which will force him to absorb Senjutsu and turn to stone. Since he's not experiencing pain, he will not break from the Genjutsu as a result of this.

    - Amaterasu is Dodged by ShunShin

    - Tsukyomi is broken by Kurama (assuming he hasn't mastered it at the level Itachi has)

    - Shinra Tensei Gaps can be taken advantage of by Shunshin

    - Human Path would be overcome by the combined effort of Naruto and Kurama

    - Asura Path is Tanked with Cloak, similar to Madara's Katon

    - Animal Path is countered by Gama Kuchiyose

    *added a few things to the extra bits sections. I'll update the thread and integrate these later
     
         
    Last edited by DemonicAvenger; 12-31-2012 at 06:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Member the dark king's Avatar
    Status
    the dark king is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Tanzania
    Posts
    642
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    awesome thread and i completely agree with you i never would have thought madara could be sealed that way excellent work. also if madara absorbs senjusu chakra he'll turn to stone so thats not really a problem. i like your preta path theory and if its true than madara definetly looses because naruto can match his army of susanoos and wood clones. keep it up :D
     
         

  3. #3
    Godaime Hokage Slug Princess Tsunade's Avatar
    Status
    Slug Princess Tsunade is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Under a f***ing tree
    Posts
    7,135
    Post Thanks / Like
    "You are my disciple so
    you'll inherit the power of a
    Sannin"
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    I disagree with you, but nice effort.
     
         

  4. #4
    Senior Member genii96's Avatar
    Status
    genii96 is online now
    Gender
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,545
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Madara rapes
     
         

  5. #5
    The Demon of NB DemonicAvenger's Avatar
    Status
    DemonicAvenger is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    My Room; Getting High and Playing Devil May Cry
    Posts
    2,550
    Post Thanks / Like
    I Have Achieved True
    Immortality. I Am Eternal.
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by genii96 View Post
    Madara rapes
    Did you even read the thread? Refute the points.
     
         

  6. #6
    Banned
    Status
    HaterFtw is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    in ear
    Posts
    2,924
    Post Thanks / Like
    I am better than you at life,
    and will carry on to be better
    !
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Same ol same ol

    But Edo Madara stomps
     
         

  7. #7
    The Demon of NB DemonicAvenger's Avatar
    Status
    DemonicAvenger is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    My Room; Getting High and Playing Devil May Cry
    Posts
    2,550
    Post Thanks / Like
    I Have Achieved True
    Immortality. I Am Eternal.
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by HaterFtw View Post
    Same ol same ol

    But Edo Madara stomps
    Dont come in here with that crap. Read the Post, I pretty much proved Naruto > Edo Madara. If you dont agree, then refute the arguments
     
         

  8. #8
    Member nakumaru's Avatar
    Status
    nakumaru is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    539
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Couldn't Agree more. Naruto has this fight locked up.
     
         

  9. #9
    Member dareak's Avatar
    Status
    dareak is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    801
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    A couple of things I need to clarify:

    CQC is close quarter combat?

    RM is the mode Naruto was using while escaping off the turtle island?

    S-RM is the mode Naruto was using while fighting Juubi?

    Do shadow clones split the chakra kneading potential of the ninja? You cannot answer this one factually unless you have a reference in the manga. But it greatly affects a part of your argument.

    When you say Naruto's punches can break Susanoo, you mention "Bar Perfect Susanoo", what do you mean by this? Is it not available in "CQC"? Or are you saying that the punches can break Susanoo but not Perfect Susanoo?

    Is MokuRyu mokuton? If it is a specific ability can you use its english name?

    What do you mean by barrier in the Preta Path section?

    What is Gama Ranbu?

    What is ShunShin?

    What is Gama Kuchiyose?

    In other bits, you mention reverse summoning. According the naruto wikia, reverse summoning allows an animal to summon humans it has a contract with. They have not listed the databook as a source, or anything at that. But this counters your reverse summoning argument because we have only seen people with contracts being summoned, therefore it would be silly to apply it to anyone else.
     
         

  10. #10
    The Demon of NB DemonicAvenger's Avatar
    Status
    DemonicAvenger is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    My Room; Getting High and Playing Devil May Cry
    Posts
    2,550
    Post Thanks / Like
    I Have Achieved True
    Immortality. I Am Eternal.
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by dareak View Post
    A couple of things I need to clarify:

    CQC is close quarter combat?

    RM is the mode Naruto was using while escaping off the turtle island?

    S-RM is the mode Naruto was using while fighting Juubi?

    Do shadow clones split the chakra kneading potential of the ninja? You cannot answer this one factually unless you have a reference in the manga. But it greatly affects a part of your argument.

    When you say Naruto's punches can break Susanoo, you mention "Bar Perfect Susanoo", what do you mean by this? Is it not available in "CQC"? Or are you saying that the punches can break Susanoo but not Perfect Susanoo?

    Is MokuRyu mokuton? If it is a specific ability can you use its english name?

    What do you mean by barrier in the Preta Path section?

    What is Gama Ranbu?

    What is ShunShin?

    What is Gama Kuchiyose?

    In other bits, you mention reverse summoning. According the naruto wikia, reverse summoning allows an animal to summon humans it has a contract with. They have not listed the databook as a source, or anything at that. But this counters your reverse summoning argument because we have only seen people with contracts being summoned, therefore it would be silly to apply it to anyone else.
    Alot of what your asking is a just a simple english translation. I typically use the original Japanese name.

    - Yes, CQC is close quarters combat.

    - RM stands for Rikudo Mode, and your correct. Its the mode he primarly used when he turned the war around on the Zetsu's, Fought 3rd Raikage, Used Rasengan Planet on Muu, ect. ect.

    - S-RM stands for Shin-Rikudo Mode, It is when Naruto has entered Biju Mode but has not formed the Kurama Cloak. This mode is the one he used to attack obito while Kakashi was in the Kamui dimension.

    - It does not, Kage Bunshin are exact copies. The only diffrence is that the amount of chakra they have is split equally from the original. That is manga fact.

    - I was establishing the point that it can break any form of Susano'O other than Shin-Susano'O. I never implied that he would use Shin-Susano'O in CQC.

    - MokuRyu is Hashirama/Madara's Wood Dragon. Moku is Japanese for wood while Ryu is Japanese for Dragon.

    - When Nagato used the Six Paths of Pain, the path that used Preta Path had a visible barrier. Nagato and Madara do not.

    - Gama Ranbu = Frog Song

    - Shunshin is Chakra Enhanced Speed. The english name is body flicker.

    - Gama Kuchiyose is Japanese for Frog Summoning.

    - Kabuto does not have a contract with snakes but with the help of Orochimaru can use Oro Kuchiyose. As long as Naruto is in contact with Madara the Frogs can reverse summon Naruto and Madara to mount Myoboku.
     
         

  11. #11
    M.M.$$$$DiamondHead$$$UPP ! UchihaInza's Avatar
    Status
    UchihaInza is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    2,572
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Lord Madara would win at the end of the day 1v1 Uchiha Inza
     
         

  12. #12
    Member dareak's Avatar
    Status
    dareak is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    801
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonicAvenger View Post
    - I was establishing the point that it can break any form of Susano'O other than Shin-Susano'O. I never implied that he would use Shin-Susano'O in CQC.
    But can Madara use Perfect Susanoo during CQC?
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonicAvenger View Post
    - Kabuto does not have a contract with snakes but with the help of Orochimaru can use Oro Kuchiyose. As long as Naruto is in contact with Madara the Frogs can reverse summon Naruto and Madara to mount Myoboku.
    How do we know Kabuto does not have a contract with snakes? He is a snake sage, he should have a contract with snakes.

    Anyway, your post doesn't talk about the Kuchiyose(Summoning) jutsu. The summoning jutsu was used by Naruto/Jiraiya to summon toads and Kabuto/Orochimaru to summon snakes. The summoning jutsu is used by humans to summon animals.

    In your post you're talking about the Gyaku Kuchiyose(Reverse summoning) jutsu, which is used by animals to summon humans. Like when the toads summoned Naruto. But like I said before, animals can only summon humans they have a contract with. So the toads cannot reverse summon Madara, only Naruto.
     
         
    Last edited by dareak; 01-06-2013 at 03:27 AM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member BenjerminGaye's Avatar
    Status
    BenjerminGaye is online now
    Gender
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The city of Townsville
    Posts
    7,075
    Post Thanks / Like
    FOOD?I love it. CHICKENS i
    BAKE; But if you want BEEF
    then your life is at STEAK!!!
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    naruto went cqc against madara and got lolstomped by the fan.

    mid range naruto does have an advantage due to speed but i don't see him stopping meteors or a spammable yasaka magatama from 25 wood clones that have susanno up.
     
         

  14. #14
    The Demon of NB DemonicAvenger's Avatar
    Status
    DemonicAvenger is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    My Room; Getting High and Playing Devil May Cry
    Posts
    2,550
    Post Thanks / Like
    I Have Achieved True
    Immortality. I Am Eternal.
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by BenjerminGaye View Post
    naruto went cqc against madara and got lolstomped by the fan.

    mid range naruto does have an advantage due to speed but i don't see him stopping meteors or a spammable yasaka magatama from 25 wood clones that have susanno up.
    This is a full intel situation. Metoers are stopped by bijudama. Naruto with his Chakra enhanced punch is a speeding susano'O buster

    Quote Originally Posted by dareak View Post
    But can Madara use Perfect Susanoo during CQC?

    How do we know Kabuto does not have a contract with snakes? He is a snake sage, he should have a contract with snakes.

    Anyway, your post doesn't talk about the Kuchiyose(Summoning) jutsu. The summoning jutsu was used by Naruto/Jiraiya to summon toads and Kabuto/Orochimaru to summon snakes. The summoning jutsu is used by humans to summon animals.

    In your post you're talking about the Gyaku Kuchiyose(Reverse summoning) jutsu, which is used by animals to summon humans. Like when the toads summoned Naruto. But like I said before, animals can only summon humans they have a contract with. So the toads cannot reverse summon Madara, only Naruto.

    No he can't. the whole point was that his punch can break any level susano'O except Shin. Drop this, i dont even know what your getting at

    Kabuto needed Orochimaru's help in part one to summon Manda. Nothing points to him having a contract. Also, people bring other things with them during Kuchiyose, their clothes dont have contracts? We have proof that things/people without contracts can be summoned with the help of someone with a contract.
     
         

  15. #15
    ~Team Taka~ UchihaBrothers's Avatar
    Status
    UchihaBrothers is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Hanging out with Team Taka.
    Posts
    6,035
    Post Thanks / Like
    Still Hanging:O
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Madara stomps
     
         

  16. #16
    The Demon of NB DemonicAvenger's Avatar
    Status
    DemonicAvenger is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    My Room; Getting High and Playing Devil May Cry
    Posts
    2,550
    Post Thanks / Like
    I Have Achieved True
    Immortality. I Am Eternal.
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaBrothers View Post
    Madara stomps
    Useless opinion
     
         

  17. #17
    Member Neutra1 Knight's Avatar
    Status
    Neutra1 Knight is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    274
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    I agree

    Naruto wins
     
         

  18. #18
    ~Team Taka~ UchihaBrothers's Avatar
    Status
    UchihaBrothers is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Hanging out with Team Taka.
    Posts
    6,035
    Post Thanks / Like
    Still Hanging:O
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonicAvenger View Post
    Useless opinion
    And that is why most people disagree with you?
     
         

  19. #19
    Rainbow Dash's Avatar
    Status
    Rainbow Dash is offline
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    8,770
    Post Thanks / Like
    Š
     



    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    I wonder how Naruto will seal Madara?

    (Don't bother answering, cuz there is none!)
     
         

  20. #20
    Member nakumaru's Avatar
    Status
    nakumaru is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    539
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Look in OP, there is a sealing method.
     
         

  21. #21
    Rainbow Dash's Avatar
    Status
    Rainbow Dash is offline
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    8,770
    Post Thanks / Like
    Š
     



    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by nakumaru View Post
    Look in OP, there is a sealing method.
    Nakumaru, you're delusional.

    1st that is the biggest bullsh!t strategy that will not work.

    2nd you are the guy who says Sasuke can beat superman.
     
         

  22. #22
    The Demon of NB DemonicAvenger's Avatar
    Status
    DemonicAvenger is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    My Room; Getting High and Playing Devil May Cry
    Posts
    2,550
    Post Thanks / Like
    I Have Achieved True
    Immortality. I Am Eternal.
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by Meido View Post
    Nakumaru, you're delusional.

    1st that is the biggest bullsh!t strategy that will not work.

    2nd you are the guy who says Sasuke can beat superman.
    1. To bad that it will work

    2. I think this is a diffrent Naku xD


    *Sorry for the Necro, I just had to add this bit


    To reinforce Naruto's Shunshin applicability we can take into account the latest chapters incident with Lee.

    Lee was able to Blitz Madara to the point that Madara couldn't react in any form. Naruto's Shunshin is much faster than Lee's own speed while in that Mode.
     
         

  23. #23
    �You Question Logic Child� TheTailedSage's Avatar
    Status
    TheTailedSage is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Leaf Village
    Posts
    4,900
    Post Thanks / Like
    "That wasnt very nice! i
    do believe you killed my hat!!
    " -SoloKing Kisuke
    Urahara-
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonicAvenger View Post
    The Title is an attention getter. Apparently you Narutobase-ees like these threads.

    In this thread I will show how Naruto is superior to Edo Madara. This thread is not like Negative Knight's where he shows both sides way of winning.

    The sole purpose of this thread is to show Naruto > Edo Madara


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As with my post on the Itachi vs. Minato thread, I will break this down into Scenarios of Combat. The following Scenario's Assume that PIS/CIS is off, And that were fighting under Standard Conditions of Battle which I will now outline.


    Both are Fresh and fully rested
    Full Intel
    Grassy Plain
    30 Meters Distance


    These are the Scenarios of Battle that I will outline

    -CQC
    -Mid Range
    -Long Range
    -Extra Bits


    Vocabulary:

    RM or Rikudo Mode = KM, KCM, Kyuubi Mode
    S-RM or Shin-Rikudo Mode = KM2 or KCM2
    Shin-Susano'O = Perfect Susano'O

    Biju Mode will be referred to as it is normally

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    *Sealing is explained in the Extra Bits Section

    CQC:

    In CQC Naruto has a few notable advantages that would give Naruto the Edge in a Straight hand to hand fight. He even has the ability to make it through Susano'O to continue his assault on Madara.

    Neither Combatant has an overwhelming lead in Taijutsu Skill. Madara took on Alliance members with Ease while Naruto has been trained in formal martial arts. Sharingan would undoubtably give Naruto Headaches, but the is remidied by Rikudo Mode or Shin-Rikudo Mode Kage Bunshin and a Shunshin that escapes even Madara's eyes. There are three main focal points to Naruto CQC hand to hand offence.

    - His Chakra Enhanced Punch that Knocked away Bijudamas
    - Kage Bunshin Shenanigans
    - Kurama's Ability to break Naruto out of Genjutsu

    If Madara is inside his Susano'O (Bar Shin-Susano'O) Naruto is Capable of Breaking threw with his Chakra Enhanced punch. These can be done in succesion to ensure that he gets through without a hitch. Naruto from here only needs to land one of these Chakra enhanced punches to put Madara in a dead state and proceed to seal. Naruto can easily accomplish this with even his Base Running speed as Madara is incapable isnt capable of putting distance between himself and Naruto. Naruto also has Chakra Limbs to land light blows on Madara, As Chakra limbs arnt subject to Sharingan pre-cog. The trickies part of this is watching for Preta Path. Naruto has two ways to deal with this.

    - Timing his punch very carefully in a position where Madara isn't using Preta Path (Possibly with Shunshin or in tandum with his Kage Bunshin
    - Sage Kage Bunshin

    A sage Kage Bunshin would completely bypass Preta Path with the Shock Wave of its Punch. Preta Path would also become a hinderance if Madara starts to Absorb Senjutsu Chakra.

    Naruto may have to deal with Moku Bunshin while in CQC. These would be dealt with By Sage Kage Bunshin or by S-RM Kage Bunshin. Sage Clones could grab hold of them (even if they are in Susano'O) and use their physical strength to toss them away from the battlefield similar to how Naruto tossed the Rhino Summon in the Pain fight.

    Naruto (or any Kage Bunshin in an RM mode) can force the fight into a CQC fight with Shunshin.

    Madara will be disarmed of his fan if he chooses to defend against Naruto's Taijutsu.

    Any Attempt at Genjutsu will end in Failure due to Kurama being able to free Naruto relatively easily. Also, if Madara targets the Kage Bunshin, then the attempt will be for naught and be wasted as Kage Bunshin arn't affected by genjutsu.

    Mid-Range:

    At Mid-Range Naruto has quite a few more things to worry about than if the fight was up close, But being at Mid-Range also opens up some new doors for Naruto that would arguably make him more deadly and force the fight in his favor.

    Naruto now has to worry about:


    -MokuRyu
    -Shin-Susano'O

    Naruto can now use:

    -Biju Mode
    -Bijudama (and variants)


    MokuBunshin would be a contiued worry here. Naruto has the options of letting his Kage Bunshin continue to combat them(he needs them less now that hes has some distance) or he can pull Onoki's Trick but this time with Bijudama. Although the previous method is perfered and more reliable.

    Putting Madara in a dead State is accomplish-able in a word. Bijudama. Bijudama has enough chakra to overload Preta path and put Madara's Edo Tensei Body in a "dead" state. If Madara is in Shin-Susano'O then Continous Bijudama, Flash Bijudama, or Perfect Bijudama (the Bijudama that Naruto and Killer Bee used against the Juubi in vain) to achieve the same effect.

    Please Refer to the post in the Spoiler for an explanation to Edo Tensei's Chakra features and how much preta is able to absorb


    Edo Tensei Chakra:


    When Madara was Freed from the Edo Tensei Covenant he Stated that Edo Tensei's have and Infinte Amount of Chakra. People have Taken this to mean that And Shinobi Resurected With Edo Tensei can Spam Jutsu's and make them much more powerful that they normally would.

    This is False, While The Edo Tensei Bodies do have an unlimited amount of Resouces from which to make chakra they cannot Knead or release more chakra than there body could before resurection (or however much their body could in the state it was ressurected in.

    I Base this on The Fact that Muu was incapable of Using Jinton after being split.
    After Being Split the amount of chakra he could release/Knead was effectivly cut in half.

    Further Proof on the fact that only a certain amount of chakra can be kneaded/Released by any certain person is proven by Naruto's Learning of the Rasengan. He had to Train his Chakra Ciculatory System to Knead more chakra and Also be able to release and sustain more chakra (the Second Step of the Training is an excellent example)


    So In conclusion, Yes Edo Tensei Bodies have the Resouces to Continously Make Chakra, Yet the ninja Cannot Knead/Release more chakra than when they could in their life.

    References:

    Madara's Statement on Edo Tensei:
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/591/17

    Muu's Edo Body Failing to use Jinton:
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/560/7

    Naruto's Rasengan Training:
    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-157-9/n...apter-152.html



    Preta Path:


    Preta Path has the ability to Abosorb Ninjutsu and Render them useless. This is done by taking in the Chakra and spinning the chakra until it is steralized (this is stated in the databook but i couldn't find the page to save my life) The Chakra does not go to the Preta path users chakra reservers but instead literally becomes nothing (for the lack of a better of a better way to put it)


    I find that this is done by opening the Tenketsu and allowing the jutsu to flow into the user's Chakra Ciruclatory system (The opposite of Kaiten in a way) The Chakra is then Spun until it becomes sterile.

    Now there's Two Factors that dictate how much the user can Absorb and how fast they can absorb it.

    1. The Amount of Chakra that the User can Knead/Release

    2. The User's Skill in Chakra Control

    The Amount of Chakra that the User Can Knead/Release Dictates the amount of Chakra that The user of Preta Path can allow into their Chakra System at one time. Chakra being absorbed must be spun and sterilized to allow more to enter the system, This is where the User's Skill in Chakra Controll comes into play. The user's Chakra Control Dicates the Speed at which they can spin the absorbed chakra and therfore means that the better chakra control they have the faster they sterilize the absorbed chakra. The Use of the Barrier when using Preta Path means that the user has either worse Chakra control or cannot Knead/Release as much Chakra as one that does not have to use the barrier. Meaning that the path that used preta in the six paths of Pain cannot absorb as much chakra as Madara or Nagato.




    References:



    By my own Opinions, Calculations, and Assumptions on the above i will give what i believe to be the end of the "Preta vs Bijudama" Debate.


    This is done from the persepctive that the Preta user is standing still with absolutly nothing in the way of Bijudama, This is purely Preta vs. Bijudama (single form, Not any of the higher versions)

    Path that used Preta in the Six paths of Pain: Would be able to absorb a decent chunk of Bijudama but would it would be in futility, The likes of this path body will never be found again.

    Madara: Would be Able to Absorb a very large Chunk of it. But this would also not be enough to survive. Madara's Edo Body is Going to Need a Few Minutes to Regerate.

    Nagato: Nagato would be able to absorb almost the entire Bijudama. The Result after the clash would be Nagato absorbing just enough to allow him to tank what was left of it. Leaving him With Serious Burns, Scrapes, Fractured bones, and just genrally beat up.


    *Note: Perfect Bijudama can be accomplished by using a BM Kage Bunshin in the Place of Bee, although this Jutsu is not required.

    At this Range, Madara would likely decide to use Shin-Susano'O. Naruto has a multitude of ways to counter just about anything that Madara can do in this form.

    Naruto is capable of compleletly shielding himself from Perfect Susano'O's Slash by covering himself in his chakra tails. These Tails were able to block the Juubi's weakend laser Bijudama and no harm came to Naruto. The Perfect Susano'O's Slash would be largely ineffective and cause almost no damage to Naruto, While Naruto is capable of putting Perfect Susano'O and Madara out of commision with Continous Bijudama or Flash Bijudama.

    Naruto can also help enlist the help of Gamabunta and his cohorts against Perfect Susano'O or Help tidy up the battlefield against the MokuBunshin. Ma and Pa are a focal point of actually beating Madara as Naruto has to Land Gama Ranbu to win this fight. This can be done before or after Madara is put into a "Dead" State.

    Essentially when Gama Ranbu lands, Its GG Madara.

    Naruto at this range also has to worry about MokuRyu, as its the only Mokuton that will be capable of Restraining BM. Naruto has a few options when dealing with this. He can..

    A) Use Bijudama or some other Jutsu to destroy it
    B) If he happens to be captured by it, he can do what he did previously and use ShunShin to escape.

    Although B will probably wont be needed as Naruto has full intel in this situation and will know to destroy the Dragon before it gets close.


    Long Range:
    This is where Madara is put at the biggest Disadvantage. At this range projectiles are the only thing worth while and Madara is sorely outmatched here.

    All Madara has to rely on is his Shin Susano'O Slashes, Which Naruto is already capable or overpowering or blocking at Mid-Range.


    Other Bits:

    - Naruto can neutralize any of Madara's Katons with his RM or S-RM Cloak.

    - Naruto can seal Madara with the following method: After Madara has been caught by Gama Ranbu, Ma and Pa can then Reverse Summon him to mount myoboku. From there they will drop him in the toad oil which will force him to absorb Senjutsu and turn to stone. Since he's not experiencing pain, he will not break from the Genjutsu as a result of this.

    - Amaterasu is Dodged by ShunShin

    - Tsukyomi is broken by Kurama (assuming he hasn't mastered it at the level Itachi has)

    - Shinra Tensei Gaps can be taken advantage of by Shunshin

    - Human Path would be overcome by the combined effort of Naruto and Kurama

    - Asura Path is Tanked with Cloak, similar to Madara's Katon

    - Animal Path is countered by Gama Kuchiyose

    *added a few things to the extra bits sections. I'll update the thread and integrate these later
    Nice effort dude but speed isnt everything, you forgot about preta path, he can absorb the jutsu or even block a high level rasengan such as TB rasengan with ease as weve seen, Quite frankly he cant beat Madara or he would of by now W/O kakashi, gai and bees help, Plus they managed to bypass juubi to get to madara and still failed even though he was mobile
     
         

  24. #24
    The Demon of NB DemonicAvenger's Avatar
    Status
    DemonicAvenger is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    My Room; Getting High and Playing Devil May Cry
    Posts
    2,550
    Post Thanks / Like
    I Have Achieved True
    Immortality. I Am Eternal.
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTailedSage View Post
    Nice effort dude but speed isnt everything, you forgot about preta path, he can absorb the jutsu or even block a high level rasengan such as TB rasengan with ease as weve seen, Quite frankly he cant beat Madara or he would of by now W/O kakashi, gai and bees help, Plus they managed to bypass juubi to get to madara and still failed even though he was mobile
    Theres a whole section based on how Preta Path wont work. Theres even another counter to preta in pure speed.

    Dont get me wrong. This thread just shows that he would beat Madara, but at Very High - Max Diff.


    * P.S.: is there a part of these forums where you can debate for other Universe's? I've been itching to have a debate about Dante (DMC3) vs. Dante (DMC: Devil May Cry)
     
         

  25. #25
    �You Question Logic Child� TheTailedSage's Avatar
    Status
    TheTailedSage is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Leaf Village
    Posts
    4,900
    Post Thanks / Like
    "That wasnt very nice! i
    do believe you killed my hat!!
    " -SoloKing Kisuke
    Urahara-
     

    Re: Establishing Why Naruto > Edo Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonicAvenger View Post
    Theres a whole section based on how Preta Path wont work. Theres even another counter to preta in pure speed.

    Dont get me wrong. This thread just shows that he would beat Madara, but at Very High - Max Diff.


    * P.S.: is there a part of these forums where you can debate for other Universe's? I've been itching to have a debate about Dante (DMC3) vs. Dante (DMC: Devil May Cry)
    I get where your coming from about the preta counter but you have to remember He doesnt necessarily need it to block rasengan remember he can block it with the fan, gourd (whatever it is) and the eternal allows you to keep up with incredible speeds, not saying it can keep up with his moves to fine accuracy but it can be countered

    And yes :D the anime section!
     
         

Page 1 of 4 1234 Last»

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •