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  1. #26
    Senior Member ~Kobak~'s Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    He is right but everybody has the right to mess up his/her own life the way he/she wants.
     
         

  2. #27
    Mugiwara Pirate StraawHat's Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arian View Post
    ive always said that obito isnt really evil...neither was pain. they simply want to achieve peace in their own way.. and since humanity is practically unable to achieve peace it seems like methods like these are the only options.. go read "Brave New Worl" from Huxley..thats also one attempt to achieve peace.. its a great book. in order to achieve peace one must sacrifice ones freedom of opinion and feelings.. i for myself think that would be worth doing so, since there are tons of people who would deserve a much better live, but dont have it(meaning poor/sick people. war orphans etc.) i always said and will keep on saying.. Naruto is not only a story or comic. is a philosophie
    I see what you're trying to say, I myself always dreamed of a world where people didn't have to go through so much pain in their life, I felt like I can relate to Naruto because I lived his life, I've bee an outcast all my life and I still am, emotions are the reason we all find ourselves in the problems we are in now, we are unable to control what happens in the world because only people who have power are able to make any difference. I will check out that book, thank you for the recomendation :D
     
         

  3. #28
    Senior Member Kurama2012's Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    i can understand what obito is talking about as the world is full of pain and misery but that isnt all there is to life there is also enjoyment and hope and ambition obito wants to take away free will as he dosent want people to feel the pain that he once felt but in the end i guess there is no right or wrong answer as its down to your own perception.
     
         

  4. #29
    Mugiwara Pirate StraawHat's Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Quote Originally Posted by kobak View Post
    He is right but everybody has the right to mess up his/her own life the way he/she wants.
    True, but if everyone messed up their lives there will always be that regret, and from regret envy and jealousy are born, and from those hate is born, we make our mistakes in lives but instead of blaming ourselves we blame those around us
     
         

  5. #30
    YES! YES! YES! King Of Sharingan's Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    We need to raise the bar, like James Cameron did.
     
         

  6. #31
    Mugiwara Pirate StraawHat's Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurama2012 View Post
    i can understand what obito is talking about as the world is full of pain and misery but that isnt all there is to life there is also enjoyment and hope and ambition obito wants to take away free will as he dosent want people to feel the pain that he once felt but in the end i guess there is no right or wrong answer as its down to your own perception.
    What you're saying is understandable but Hope is a delusion, we pray and believe in change because we ourselves know that we can't do much if not anything at all to try and help our dying world, to me happiness is something I haven't felt in many years, i'm not depressed, nor am I sad, I feel... nothing as so to speak, If we were to all come together maybe a change would be made. In Naruto I believe Obito is only doing the things that the rest of the world is brave enough to do
     
         

  7. #32
    Mugiwara Pirate StraawHat's Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jin Hayami View Post
    I feel like I should be passing out razor blades. Look I like my life. Naruto and the rest of the world obviously like their lives. So one emo ******* doesn't like his life so he's gonna ruin it for everyone else? Sounds like suicide would have been the easier option on his part.
    No there is no need to, I truly do not consider I or anyone else here an Emo, often people are afraid to talk about what they really think and all it takes is one person to start talking about it to inspire other people to talk about their beliefs and ideals, I don't see what he is doing as ruining everyone elses lives but merely trying to improve it so nobody has to suffer the pain that is reality
     
         

  8. #33
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Quote Originally Posted by StraawHat View Post
    That was excellent, I'm glad I read that because it's a very good thing to see, but do you yourself personally believe in what Kishi is trying to say, people with power come and promise change but the only change is things get worse, if you look around you today, looking at our generation you may see people who are separated from the rest because they may be smarter, more athletic or perceived as better in some way, but do you really think that everyone can be winners? there's always losers and losing in itself may be all that someone is capable of, when we lose the light in our lives we are enveloped by darkness and stop moving forward in life, when we need support the most the people who you call comrades are the ones who offer no help, when we lose our light and we gain another that light will be dimmer than the first one if you know what i'm trying to say, I value your opinion very much but I ask you, do you truly believe what you just wrote or are you making yourself believe in it?
    Actually I do understand what obito is saying and alot of it is true. Just think about the decisions that governments make. No matter the decision there will always be someone who will be screwed over & hurt in order to accomplish your goals. I think this is a lesson that Kishi wants naruto to realize. He has to be weary of the lives he will affect when you're under a leadership position. From that pain that was caused by their decisions, comes hate. What I was saying is that yes, we need to fully understand how the world works, it isn't black & white, but one big grey area. Acknowledge that the world is getting worse, but that is where kishi's message comes in. What are we gonna do about it? Sit on our couch, and say "hey it's not me so whatever". Or do you stand on your values when society has lost theirs. People will always judge another based on their looks/athletic ability, and ect.

    This is a quote I hear in Assassin's Creed:

    "Those you sought to protect have turned their backs on you, and you still resist, why"?

    "Because No one else will!"

    Sometimes you may be the last one with any sort of sense left, does that mean you should stop fighting? Nah
     
         

  9. #34
    Senior Member BenjerminGaye's Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Quote Originally Posted by StraawHat View Post
    Ok before I ask the question, I'm going to add a little background to it. Before I ever got into Naruto and started reading manga I used to be pretty negative on life on the inside but on the outside very happy go lucky... you could go as far as to say goofy. Recently my friend ( who had previously been into the series ) constantly referred to me as Tobi, I never understood what that meant until he told me to get into the Naruto series so as I went home i researched it since then I've been reading everything that's happened and would like to know if you guys think that this statement is true.

    Applying everything into more realistic settings I think that Kishimoto has made Obito right in every way however, I don't think what he's really saying is applying to the Naruto world, I think it's applying more to the world that we live in because I personally agree with almost everything that he's saying and I do not understand why people are disagreeing with what Obito is saying because inside they know he is absolutely true, I'd like to get opinions on what people think about what Obito's saying, if he's truly right or wrong, no stupid arguments about "Oh he's just angry because he got friend zoned" I would genuinely like to get people's feed back on what Obito is actually saying because I find him as a very relate able character as well as Naruto but I would still appreciate feedback?
    It's like itachi san said "we all live in our convictions and what we believe to be real"
    The obito you know died under that rock and when he awoke he believed he was in the afterlife.He never let go of that notion and thinks that the world he currently resides in is "hell" due to rin's deaath.
    Maybe to him infinite tsuyokomi is his key to heaven because he thinks it will make everyone happy regardless of how they feel now since there in "hell" with him. For him this is redemption.
     
         

  10. #35
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    The world isn't getting worse and worse, your just hearing more about the ****ed up shit that happens. Media wasn't as powerful and influencing 20 years ago.
     
         

  11. #36
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    In a nutshell, the message you are trying to convey is that life is harsh and that it would be better if there were a virtual reality wherein you could have everything you desire?
     
         

  12. #37
    Member Pirate Hunter Zoro's Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    The world belongs to no one, no one is the leader and no one is at the bottom. We as humans decided that, not some God. As the world grew older everyone just got more carefree, this generation is worse then the past one, and that past one is worse then the one before that, yes the world is continually decaying. But for it to be rescued, we must recue ourselves, someone else telling us won't allow us to realize anything. It's a really controversial topic and I could write an essay on it, but I don't have the time nor space.
     
         

  13. #38
    Senior Member ~Kobak~'s Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Quote Originally Posted by StraawHat View Post
    True, but if everyone messed up their lives there will always be that regret, and from regret envy and jealousy are born, and from those hate is born, we make our mistakes in lives but instead of blaming ourselves we blame those around us
    The world still goes on.There have always been happy and unhappy people and always will. That's the way it goes.
     
         

  14. #39
    Senior Member BenjerminGaye's Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninpou View Post
    The world isn't getting worse and worse, your just hearing more about the ****ed up shit that happens. Media wasn't as powerful and influencing 20 years ago.
    With technology on the rise media has become the new outlet for lazy knowledge seekers. If its true or not depends on the writer. In most cases its not and media in a sense can be used to condition the mind. Knowledge not obtained and tested by yourself is just word of mouth but in today's age its considered "truth"
     
         

  15. #40
    Mugiwara Pirate StraawHat's Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Quote Originally Posted by staticdash22 View Post
    Actually I do understand what obito is saying and alot of it is true. Just think about the decisions that governments make. No matter the decision there will always be someone who will be screwed over & hurt in order to accomplish your goals. I think this is a lesson that Kishi wants naruto to realize. He has to be weary of the lives he will affect when you're under a leadership position. From that pain that was caused by their decisions, comes hate. What I was saying is that yes, we need to fully understand how the world works, it isn't black & white, but one big grey area. Acknowledge that the world is getting worse, but that is where kishi's message comes in. What are we gonna do about it? Sit on our couch, and say "hey it's not me so whatever". Or do you stand on your values when society has lost theirs. People will always judge another based on their looks/athletic ability, and ect.

    This is a quote I hear in Assassin's Creed:

    "Those you sought to protect have turned their backs on you, and you still resist, why"?

    "Because No one else will!"

    Sometimes you may be the last one with any sort of sense left, does that mean you should stop fighting? Nah
    Yes I see where it is you are coming from but think about it, what we do in life doesn't affect much in life, we leave the big decision making to the higher upps and when they make a decision it most likely doesn't benefit us, we live in a world were all different kinds of segregation causes us to be separated as a society amungst certain groups, we can all acknowledge the fact that our world is getting better but even Kishi himself knows that he doesn't have an answer on how to solve the plagues that ruin lives, if he had known then Naruto would surely have been able to protect his loved ones by creating this peace he has power and responsibility, he knows that it's because of him that many people have laid down their lives and died but how many people do we know are willing to put their life on the line to make the world a better place for others? a very small if not nothing of a handful of people. We all resist the fact that we know ways to make a difference but we do not care enough to go out and make an actual difference, even I myself go out and try to make a difference but yet all my despite my best efforts all I can do is inspire the younger to follow the fake role model I let them believe I am because the children of the next gen are our only salvation, people of this gen are selfish and all have evil in their hearts, I will freely admit that I do to, but inside our hearts is also good but people choose to hide this away from others from fear of being hurt, this creates distrust between people, families fight and our so called bonds are torn apart, so tell me, answer me this question. Have you ever truly felt pain in your life? Yes that quote does retain a lot of sense but think about it, sometimes retreating and changing your plan is the only way to win the game at the end of the day
     
         

  16. #41
    Mugiwara Pirate StraawHat's Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheus Beta View Post
    In a nutshell, the message you are trying to convey is that life is harsh and that it would be better if there were a virtual reality wherein you could have everything you desire?
    No my friend, what I am trying to say is that In life there are not enough people willing so sacrifice their integrity and everything else they may have in life to try and make this world a better place for everyone to live in
     
         

  17. #42
    Mugiwara Pirate StraawHat's Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Quote Originally Posted by BenjerminGaye View Post
    It's like itachi san said "we all live in our convictions and what we believe to be real"
    The obito you know died under that rock and when he awoke he believed he was in the afterlife.He never let go of that notion and thinks that the world he currently resides in is "hell" due to rin's deaath.
    Maybe to him infinite tsuyokomi is his key to heaven because he thinks it will make everyone happy regardless of how they feel now since there in "hell" with him. For him this is redemption.
    It's not so much about Obito as it is about what he is actually doing, He lost everything in life and despite his actions he's still doing things to help people in a way he believes will save the world
     
         

  18. #43
    Mugiwara Pirate StraawHat's Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Quote Originally Posted by kobak View Post
    The world still goes on.There have always been happy and unhappy people and always will. That's the way it goes.
    So what you're saying is you are satisfied with a world filled with winners and losers? what happens if you end up as the loser?
     
         

  19. #44
    Mugiwara Pirate StraawHat's Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate Hunter Zoro View Post
    The world belongs to no one, no one is the leader and no one is at the bottom. We as humans decided that, not some God. As the world grew older everyone just got more carefree, this generation is worse then the past one, and that past one is worse then the one before that, yes the world is continually decaying. But for it to be rescued, we must recue ourselves, someone else telling us won't allow us to realize anything. It's a really controversial topic and I could write an essay on it, but I don't have the time nor space.
    I see. Well I thank you for your opinion on the matter anyway but you are indeed correct. I think if we would realize our mistakes and try to set a better example for the next generation our world would become a better place, but in this world we live in today Hope is nothing but a delusion.
     
         

  20. #45
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    I have to disagree. What people fail to realize is it's not the things we do but why we do them. Obito is doing what he's doing purely from a selfish motive, he doesn't care about right and wrong his philosophy is a perverse version of what he said to Kakashi when they were young shinobi on the battle field arguing about whether or not if they should save Rin.
    But if you want my perspective on real world evil then I have to say the two most evil things in this world are hypocrisy and decisions made out of fear.
    We all have that dark version of ourselves in us, trying to hide it from the world lest they see us for what we really are. Humans are the only animal on this planet that has the hubris to think of itself in a higher regard than an animal, but that's all we are, intelligent yes, but animals nonetheless.
    I see people railing against the war on terror and how it's all about money and blah blah blah, but they weren't saying that when they were calling for vengeance on any Muslim nation that seemed responsible. No one gave a thought to how the people who had nothing to do with this atrocity would be affected, all most Americans wanted was an eye for an eye type of thing. Now I see all of these self righteous *******s out here railing against the government, corporations, etc; well we are just as responsible as they are.
    The world is ****ed because people (like 85% of the population) are ****ed. You buy shit you don't need so you can feel prestigious;
    you have kids to give your life meaning; you lie to yourselves about your very nature; and you put your faith in baseless lies, mythologies, corrupt politicians, pieces of paper which you would give your lives for, and you have the hubris to bring another human being into this world knowing full well that it's a fukking mess? Yeah the world is ****ed up, but only because the people are ****ing deluded sycophants.
    Sorry for the dark tone but that's how I honestly feel. It's almost foolish to hope but I see good in a lot of people. Maybe in another couple centuries we'll get it right. If not, I long for an asteroid to take this planet out. Cynical and pessimistic though it is.
     
         

  21. #46
    Mugiwara Pirate StraawHat's Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyDogGeneral View Post
    Sadly what's happening to this world...everything is becoming Ok. Just wait,Soon enough there will be bestiality and pedophilic rights under certain conditions...and a few years down the line, it will be generalized. I hope am dead by that time.
    We try and make things seem easier and better for other people by trying to make even the wrong things right, I have no problems with Homosexuals but I do not believe gay marriage should be allowed in a church but look what's happening, it's started to become a reality that we will all have to accept as modern day life whether we like it or not.
     
         

  22. #47
    Senior Member BenjerminGaye's Avatar
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Do you think kishi as the answer to world peace? That's pretty much where this manga is going. Ever since pain stepped in. Even before that but it wasn't as obvious.He has to write something for naruto to say to obito. Majority vote isn't a good answer due to the minority getting the short end of the stick, and on top of that if one sways people's mind then the vote becomes useless because their "will" was conditioned based off someone else's thoughts. Pain tried to use a nuclear deterrent and that's the current system the world uses today but like he said it would be a cycle of peace and war meaning war is soon to be upon us. Infinite tsuykomi seems like something out of the matrix but is not a true answer to those who believe they can tell whats real and whats not.... We still haven't heard naruto's answer though...Is it strife?the will to continue when all hope is lost?
     
         

  23. #48
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    This world is not slowly decaying, it is waxing and waning. It has it's good and it's bad. But, if you truly want to change it, I'll tell you what can be done.

    Everyone here is walking their own path, and I each person's path there is a split. The first road leads to a boring live, living by the rules, getting by with what you have and ultimately allowing this world to continue on with you chained to the world itself. The other path is different. It's a path where the individual can be free of all of their chains, and allow the individual to constantly define and redefine themselves. We won't be chained by an oppressive government who wants to make money over keeping its citizens safe. This road is built by us, as in all of us who choose the path, and it is traveled by the same individuals who built it. A wise man once said the best way to predict the future is to invent it. Let's invent it.

    If we all start right now, we could change this world into a better place is few years. But it will take all of us. Because the reality of our situation is that we are all slaves. We are chained to the world, chained to politics, chained to one another. But if we work hard, if we all help one another to break the chains that hold us captive, we can all be free. We won't be enslaved like our ancestors. We'll be free.

    Just like in the manga, we need to start an organization to make this world better. We'll call it akatsuki, for we will be the dawn of a new age. We may be called rebels, but what we are are freedom fighters, fighting for our future and the futures of the generations after us. Rise up with me my brothers and sisters, for we are going to invent the future. This is Syren. And I want to free the world.
     
         

  24. #49
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Alchemist View Post
    I have to disagree. What people fail to realize is it's not the things we do but why we do them. Obito is doing what he's doing purely from a selfish motive, he doesn't care about right and wrong his philosophy is a perverse version of what he said to Kakashi when they were young shinobi on the battle field arguing about whether or not if they should save Rin.
    But if you want my perspective on real world evil then I have to say the two most evil things in this world are hypocrisy and decisions made out of fear.
    We all have that dark version of ourselves in us, trying to hide it from the world lest they see us for what we really are. Humans are the only animal on this planet that has the hubris to think of itself in a higher regard than an animal, but that's all we are, intelligent yes, but animals nonetheless.
    I see people railing against the war on terror and how it's all about money and blah blah blah, but they weren't saying that when they were calling for vengeance on any Muslim nation that seemed responsible. No one gave a thought to how the people who had nothing to do with this atrocity would be affected, all most Americans wanted was an eye for an eye type of thing. Now I see all of these self righteous *******s out here railing against the government, corporations, etc; well we are just as responsible as they are.
    The world is ****ed because people (like 85% of the population) are ****ed. You buy shit you don't need so you can feel prestigious;
    you have kids to give your life meaning; you lie to yourselves about your very nature; and you put your faith in baseless lies, mythologies, corrupt politicians, pieces of paper which you would give your lives for, and you have the hubris to bring another human being into this world knowing full well that it's a fukking mess? Yeah the world is ****ed up, but only because the people are ****ing deluded sycophants.
    Sorry for the dark tone but that's how I honestly feel. It's almost foolish to hope but I see good in a lot of people. Maybe in another couple centuries we'll get it right. If not, I long for an asteroid to take this planet out. Cynical and pessimistic though it is.
    What you are saying is perfectly understandable and logical, I myself often battle with myself because I think that we have no right to label people good or bad based solely on their actions because you must understand fully the reasons why they did what they did otherwise we are just judging them for something they believe was right to do, I myself will not question the fact that I am only human but I have accepted myself for everything I am, I am an animal, I am nobody and in effect I am nothing, but isn't that what we all are? We are all the same so why is it that the ones who have the most riches are perceived and seen as more important than everyone else? We are all simply made and flesh and blood so what difference does it make? POWER, the thing that everyone is after. When I saw Naruto Chikara power, I saw it as more of symbolizing everyone's constant need of power, be it to protect or to destroy. I myself as I have said have nothing left to lose in life or nothing left to gain, for me the one thing I want to do is make the world a better place for everyone, I am not afraid to lay down my life for this dream, I am not afraid to make the decisions and choices that most people wouldn't, we all make decisions based on fear of being judged and having our backs turned on by our comrades and loved ones, but that is all a lie, words such as love are nothing but an illusion capitalized by the media which is why I believe that until everyone has faced the pain of losing everyone they loved cared about in their lives, then nothing will ever be done to help anyone.
     
         

  25. #50
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    Bet I got some weed, bet I got
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    Re: A Strange Question that needs views on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate Hunter Zoro View Post
    The world belongs to no one, no one is the leader and no one is at the bottom. We as humans decided that, not some God. As the world grew older everyone just got more carefree, this generation is worse then the past one, and that past one is worse then the one before that, yes the world is continually decaying. But for it to be rescued, we must recue ourselves, someone else telling us won't allow us to realize anything. It's a really controversial topic and I could write an essay on it, but I don't have the time nor space.
    I agree with everything you said except for the generationa thing. Look at our parents generation for example, those born in the late fifties early sixties; they did nothing. What revolution did they have? The revolution and counter culture of the sixties was started from those born in the forties and early fifties. The sexual revolution was going on while they were still kids and teenagers they had nothing to do with it. They became adults in the seventies and eighties and what came from those decades?
    Cocaine flooded the streets
    Gangs which started from the teenagers and young adults of the early sixties and seventies
    A.I.Ds/H.I.V
    the first recession
    Crack Cocaine, the list goes on. There is a reason they are called the lost generation and the generation without a cause. All they did was party, ****, and get high. We were on that path til the mid 1990s with our protest and desire for change. We are the ones who started the massive world wide protest of the rich and powerful. We need to give ourselves more credit, we are far better than our parents and we just might over shadow the accomplishments of our grand parents. Our parents lived in the generation of me, it's up to us to reform it and create the generation of "we".
     
         

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