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  1. #76
    Member enuzuki's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    I can both understand and appreciate your point of view. It's to bad you can't be objective enough to do the same.
     
         

  2. #77
    Chaotic Neutral Sir Derp Obito's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by enuzuki View Post
    I can both understand and appreciate your point of view. It's to bad you can't be objective enough to do the same.
    Indeed
     
         

  3. #78
    In detention The God of Wind's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by enuzuki View Post
    Again that is a foundation for a deeper story. Hell, the story that could've made here can be made into a manga in it self. It's a earth shattering thing to see, i would imagine. But for me it loses its impact when a character makes an complete 180. I would have liked to see him in torment and confusion over what transpired and then Madara would take advantage of his turmoil. Instead it's one event that shapes one event that changes him.(as far as we know)
    Are you kidding?! Is there not enough torment and confusion in Hell? He is questioning his entire sense of reality while slaughtering everything in his path and not even realising it in a fit of rage! Some people are just harder to please than others I guess. >_>
     
         

  4. #79
    Member enuzuki's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by The God of Wind View Post
    Are you kidding?! Is there not enough torment and confusion in Hell? He is questioning his entire sense of reality while slaughtering everything in his path and not even realising it in a fit of rage! Some people are just harder to please than others I guess. >_>
    "He is questioning his entire sense of reality". That's my point. When in that state Madara would be able to manipulate him easily. When he was in the cave he was adamant in his conviction and had none of the same ideology as Madara. I just wanted more of a good thing. I'm not saying he's a bad character, what i'm saying is his motivation isn't nearly as strong as it could, or should be. I retract my earlier statement about wanting to see 5 chapters of back story. I want a whole manga dedicated to it! The idea of it could easily make an 100 chapter manga. So no i still don't think Obito's motivation was developed enough. I would be great watching him slowly contemplate his way of thinking. I would like to watch him get trained, get sent to missions. But that would turn the focus way of the main plot. I guess he was a victim of a rushed story, having to make a concept in 1-2 days, draw it, do the backgrounds and ink it, really takes away from great concepts like Obito's story.
     
         

  5. #80
    Senior Member AWSUM SID's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    how many people were saved in the project tsukinome?? none.
    how many people died?? alot. i mean a war started literally.
    Will project tsukinome revive the dead? no. they will remain dead.
    What is good about deceit??
     
         

  6. #81
    In detention The God of Wind's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by enuzuki View Post
    "He is questioning his entire sense of reality". That's my point. When in that state Madara would be able to manipulate him easily. When he was in the cave he was adamant in his conviction and had none of the same ideology as Madara. I just wanted more of a good thing. I'm not saying he's a bad character, what i'm saying is his motivation isn't nearly as strong as it could, or should be. I retract my earlier statement about wanting to see 5 chapters of back story. I want a whole manga dedicated to it! The idea of it could easily make an 100 chapter manga. So no i still don't think Obito's motivation was developed enough. I would be great watching him slowly contemplate his way of thinking. I would like to watch him get trained, get sent to missions. But that would turn the focus way of the main plot. I guess he was a victim of a rushed story, having to make a concept in 1-2 days, draw it, do the backgrounds and ink it, really takes away from great concepts like Obito's story.
    Whatever dude, I don't care about trying to convince you anymore, I've done all I can, it was enough for me. Btw tho, Madara had already instilled his words in Obito's mind in 'I'm alive' which were ignored and disrespected by Obito at the time, who was just striving to get back to Konoha. They took effect when Obito realised the truth for himself following Rin's death. It was the only signpost left after the chaos in 'Hell', and Obito followed it. I hope you realise that soon.


    Quote Originally Posted by AWSUM SID View Post
    how many people were saved in the project tsukinome?? none.
    how many people died?? alot. i mean a war started literally.
    Will project tsukinome revive the dead? no. they will remain dead.
    What is good about deceit??
    I never said I agree with it. But I do understand his ideology. Peace through power, just like the Elder Son. Although this time, the measures are extreme.
     
         

  7. #82
    Member enuzuki's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    [QUOTE=The God of Wind;9735551]Whatever dude, I don't care about trying to convince you anymore, I've done all I can, it was enough for me. Btw tho, Madara had already instilled his words in Obito's mind in 'I'm alive' which were ignored and disrespected by Obito at the time, who was just striving to get back to Konoha. They took effect when Obito realised the truth for himself following Rin's death. It was the only signpost left after the chaos in 'Hell', and Obito followed it. I hope you realise that soon.


    The thing that gets me the most is, that we saw Obito change. His complete change. Bear with me for a moment. After witnessing
    Obito and Madara's "relationship" it doesn't seem like Obito shares a lot of ideology with him, or respect him at all, it doesn't seem like he's a mentor for him at all...Which means what? That Obito didn't change from the time of Rins death and Madara didn't get to him, he's just using Madara for his own selfish gain to be with Rin. That's just my theory. PS: they are suppose to be two people fighting to create an peaceful world and yet they clash. And please for the love of whatever deity you worship, understand that i don't think his back story is bad, i just don't think it's explored enough, nor developed to a sufficient point. It was fun discussing with you. I appreciate you opinion, it gave something to think about.
     
         
    Last edited by enuzuki; 01-04-2013 at 01:27 PM.

  8. #83
    In detention The God of Wind's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by enuzuki View Post
    The thing that gets me the most is, that we saw Obito change. His complete change. Bear with me for a moment. After witnessing
    Obito and Madara's "relationship" it doesn't seem like Obito shares a lot of ideology with him, or respect him at all, it doesn't seem like he's a mentor for him at all...Which means what? That Obito didn't change from the time of Rins death and Madara didn't get to him, he's just using Madara for his own selfish gain to be with Rin. That's just my theory. PS: they are suppose to be two people fighting to create an peaceful world and yet they clash. And please for the love of whatever deity you worship, understand that i don't think his back story is bad, i just don't think it's explored enough, nor developed to a sufficient point. It was fun discussing with you, and i appreciate you opinion, in gave something to think about.
    That's because he doesn't respect him, neither does he consider him an ally, a fact you will know after reading 613. He made it clear in that chapter, that Madara is at HIS mercy, not the other way around.

    But he does envision the ideal world that Madara described, because there is nothing he hates more than the current insufferable reality.
     
         
    Last edited by The God of Wind; 01-04-2013 at 01:29 PM.

  9. #84
    Member enuzuki's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by The God of Wind View Post
    That's because he doesn't respect him, neither does he consider him an ally, a fact you will know after reading 613. He made it clear in that chapter, that Madara is at HIS mercy, not the other way around.
    That's what i'm saying. After seeing the way he acts towards Madara, it doesn't feel like he has been with him for the amount of time he has. I'm glad we could at least agree on one thing. Right?
     
         

  10. #85
    Member enuzuki's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by The God of Wind View Post
    That's because he doesn't respect him, neither does he consider him an ally, a fact you will know after reading 613. He made it clear in that chapter, that Madara is at HIS mercy, not the other way around.
    That's what i'm saying. After seeing the way he acts towards Madara, it doesn't feel like he has been with him for the amount of time he has. I'm glad we could at least agree on one thing...Right?
     
         

  11. #86
    In detention The God of Wind's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by enuzuki View Post
    That's what i'm saying. After seeing the way he acts towards Madara, it doesn't feel like he has been with him for the amount of time he has. I'm glad we could at least agree on one thing. Right?
    See edited post ^above^
     
         

  12. #87
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by The God of Wind View Post
    Are you kidding?! Is there not enough torment and confusion in Hell? He is questioning his entire sense of reality while slaughtering everything in his path and not even realising it in a fit of rage! Some people are just harder to please than others I guess. >_>
    There is such a difference between the young Obito and Tobi personality, that it's difficult to accept the transformation only took 5 minutes. There's something more natural when a character goes through a traumatic experience and that as time goes by, the pain and despair grows into something bigger. Every character so far has walked a long road of up and downs, each event slowly pushing that character into the direction of good or bad.

    I can't speak for enuzaki, but it wouldn't have hurt Obito as a character if Rin's death wasn't the first and last moment he was confronted with his ideals and beliefs. For example, the kid went through a war, which is supposed to be the birthplace of misery. The fact that Kishi didn't even expand a bit on this, which would've given Obito another motive, kinda feels like a missed opportunity, especially since he's obsessed with the idea of peace.
     
         

  13. #88
    In detention The God of Wind's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Animaeon View Post
    There is such a difference between the young Obito and Tobi personality, that it's difficult to accept the transformation only took 5 minutes. There's something more natural when a character goes through a traumatic experience and that as time goes by, the pain and despair grows into something bigger. Every character so far has walked a long road of up and downs, each event slowly pushing that character into the direction of good or bad.

    I can't speak for enuzaki, but it wouldn't have hurt Obito as a character if Rin's death wasn't the first and last moment he was confronted with his ideals and beliefs. For example, the kid went through a war, which is supposed to be the birthplace of misery. The fact that Kishi didn't even expand a bit on this, which would've given Obito another motive, kinda feels like a missed opportunity, especially since he's obsessed with the idea of peace.
    The hell? Didn't Nagato flip the second Yahiko killed himself?
     
         

  14. #89
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    You just cant see it yet because it's manga, but wait till the anime comes around, you guys will be the ones doing 180's
     
         

  15. #90
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by The God of Wind View Post
    You just cant see it yet because it's manga, but wait till the anime comes around, you guys will be the ones doing 180's
    No amount of sad music or depressing imagery will change my opinion. I did feel for Obito, right up till the line "i'm in hell". But i still enjoyed it, that's the main reason why i feel so strongly about this. Let's hope the anime extents it a bit.
     
         

  16. #91
    J & A YowYan's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Because I don't like to stand under.
     
         

  17. #92
    Member enuzuki's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by YowYan View Post
    Because I don't like to stand under.
    Long time no see. That pun actually made me smile by the way.
     
         

  18. #93
    Senior Member Baka Sennin's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Rin's death was merely the catalyst, now he's adopted Madara's ideology of a world with just winners. even if I don't think that's Madara's true goal haha
     
         

  19. #94
    Senior Member Arian's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Agree.. wow some1 with brains on this site!!
     
         

  20. #95
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by The God of Wind View Post
    The hell? Didn't Nagato flip the second Yahiko killed himself?
    True, but even he had to go through a package of hardships, which was directly and indirectly caused by war; we had a backstory on his parents, his life as an orphan, losing his dog, getting involved in war and losing many comrades to achieve peace. When it finally came down to the Yahiko scene, it's safe to say it was the final push over the edge.

    But for Obito, the flashbacks were spent mostly on preparing Rin's death scene. We didn't get a backstory on the whereabouts of his parents, we don't know for sure if Rin was his only bond, we didn't get an interesting insight on Obito's life in the Uchiha clan, and the war was only mentioned once in the beginning.

    So the big difference between Obito and a lot of characters is that even though Kishi did a terrific job developing Obito through his hard work up to his ideals shattering, his background deserved more attention... Because it could've given Obito more motives and reasons to join Madara. And thus satisfying more people.
     
         

  21. #96
    Member enuzuki's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baka Sennin View Post
    Rin's death was merely the catalyst, now he's adopted Madara's ideology of a world with just winners. even if I don't think that's Madara's true goal haha
    If you followed the long and needless discussion, you would know that Obito hasn't adopted Madara's ideology, which i think is flawed since he was with him for more then a decade. And you're right in saying Rins death is a catalyst...Almost, Rins death is Obito's only defining motivation and for a story with so much potential, i think it's a detriment.
     
         
    Last edited by enuzuki; 01-04-2013 at 02:10 PM.

  22. #97
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    I wanted to create this thread as well, but now it looks like it isnt needed. Thank you
     
         

  23. #98
    Senior Member Baka Sennin's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by enuzuki View Post
    If you followed the long and needless discussion, you would know that Obito hasn't adopted Madara's ideology, which i think is flawed since he was with him for more then a decade. And you're right in saying Rins death is a catalyst...Almost, Rins death is Obito's only defining motivation and for a story with so much potential, i think it's a detriment.
    tbh I haven't, I've only read the opening post and I agree with it. imo, both Obito and Madara are double-crossing each other and know about it (Obito's going out with the open about it recently). Anyway, in my opinion Obito has really come to the conclusion that the world is worthless, Rin's death spurred him onto it, but then also Madara,Nagato,Kisame, Itachi and Kakashi's histories. He sees a world where betrayal and death are justified. at the kage summit one of his phrases really struck me- Hope is the last deception, a word which holds no true meaning. there is no hope in this world, you as kage should know this the most. basically he is sick of the ninja world, and that is why imo he's much more pissed at naruto than kakashi because kakashi is almost as hopeless as obito is while naruto still shares obito's old optimism.
     
         

  24. #99
    Member toviasrepier's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by celebrei View Post
    I'll explain this as simple as possible:

    Rin dies, Obito cries, goes to Madara because she died, Madara offers Eye of the Moon Plan, Obito thought it got swag and off he ran, forming Akatsuki, capturing the Jinchuurikis, to revive the Juubi, to power up the Infinite Tsukoyomi, to be together forever with his biddy.


    Even if Obito has tsukoyomi it is limited and the genjutsu will end when he's low on chakra meaning his illusionary paradise with Rin has a time limit, however with the Juubi providing infinite battery time to the Infinite Tsukoyomi, Obito can be together with Rin forever in a make-believe reality, the whole world is merely a casualty of his raging hormones.
    Obito's mind is just screwed he & Madara boy both wanted shitty ilusions. They should have joined The Truth in GTA S.A. & took mariwana.
     
         

  25. #100
    Member enuzuki's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baka Sennin View Post
    tbh I haven't, I've only read the opening post and I agree with it. imo, both Obito and Madara are double-crossing each other and know about it (Obito's going out with the open about it recently). Anyway, in my opinion Obito has really come to the conclusion that the world is worthless, Rin's death spurred him onto it, but then also Madara,Nagato,Kisame, Itachi and Kakashi's histories. He sees a world where betrayal and death are justified. at the kage summit one of his phrases really struck me- Hope is the last deception, a word which holds no true meaning. there is no hope in this world, you as kage should know this the most. basically he is sick of the ninja world, and that is why imo he's much more pissed at naruto than kakashi because kakashi is almost as hopeless as obito is while naruto still shares obito's old optimism.
    That's a interesting theory. i was kinda thinking about it myself when he said "there is no need for this reality, come Naruto". Or at least something along those lines.
     
         

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