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  1. #141
    In detention The God of Wind's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdorm View Post
    i think madara send a white zetsu to kill rin and transformed itself to rin so kakashi would kill it to brake kakashi friendship whit obito and control obito from then on
    Kakashi already confirmed it bro, the circumstances might have been Madara's doing but not the events that occurred.
     
         

  2. #142
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by The God of Wind View Post
    The page that I asked you to post, was the one that said: "I will change the fate, of this world"

    That's his motivation and his goal. Madara's plan only provided him the means to accomplish that goal. He hates the reality that brought Rin's death from Kakashi's own hands. He will stop at nothing to make that reality disappear.
    Now tell me. Had Rin's death not occurred, would he ever developed that ideology?

    Rin's death was a crucial factor, if not the sole cause, of him seeing things from Madara's point of view, and causing him to do what he's doing now.
     
         

  3. #143
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    to me is starting to look like the starwars movie darkvader being control by the emperor asking him to join the dark side so on
     
         

  4. #144
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
    Now tell me. Had Rin's death not occurred, would he ever developed that ideology?

    Rin's death was a crucial factor, if not the sole cause, of him seeing things from Madara's point of view, and causing him to do what he's doing now.
    Not her death in general, it was the fact that KAKASHI KILLED HER HIMSELF! You must understand the magnitude and impact of that event.

    He hates the ninja system that brought about the kind of circumstances that forced his friends to break their promises and kill each other. He wants to end the type of world that forces comrades to kill comrades. Do you understand what I am conveying here?

    Obito:"Kakashi.....you and I both know, that this world produces nothing but trash. You and I are fine examples of that."
     
         
    Last edited by The God of Wind; 01-05-2013 at 05:02 AM.

  5. #145
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Alot of speculations and big "what if"s?
    But eh I guess there is some plausibility to it in there somewhere.
     
         

  6. #146
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    OK, here we go.....to OP, good thread but ppl that deny Obito's reasoning and hate him are simply the ppl who didn't want Tobi to turn out to be Obito...it's simple as that.
    Tobi is probably the central character of this entire manga and some ppl didn't want this huge role to be handed to a kid who they never liked in kakashi gaiden....ppl who liked Obito in gaiden were happy when tobi was revealed to be Obito and the rest just started hating the character.
    everyone was a Tobi fan till the mask was broken because everyone had high hopes(Izuna,Kagami,elder bro etc) but plain Obito got to their nerves simply because it was always the Obvious choice.

    So, the ppl who like Obito, understand his reasoning and those who don't like him won't even bother.....

    i actually made a thread about the Moon's eye plan a while ago and i don't see anything wrong with the plan so i'm just gonna paste it here,

    Alright, i wanted to make this thread to hear the opinions on this matter.

    1st off, by now it is clear that Obito is sincere to his goal and if he gets to complete the plan then he will make everyone's wishes come true......(i don't really trust Madara on this, he might just make himself king or something lolz)

    Now, from Obito's prespective he wants to achieve heaven(Dream world) and take everyone to heaven with him.
    a world of winners and all, where everyone will be happy.....
    Ok, here naruto and others disagreed with him because they said that it will be a fake happiness and not reality cuz true happiness is meaningful only if achieved in real world.

    Now, i don't see this logic(maybe i'm wrong) but..how do you define reality?
    as Itachi said,'Reality is only what you believe to be true and real'.....you can also say that it's a feeling.
    like if you are in a dream....you feel it as the reality untill you wake up, only then you can differentiate between dream and reality, but what if you never wake up?

    yes, then that dream will be your reality....e.g that is what was shown in Matrix, if Anderson never knew about it he would just have been living happily in what he considers reality.

    i think you get my point, so how can Naruto and the others say it won't be real if they never know and the jutsu ends only in their death. they would just be living happily without knowing that they are in a dream cuz they'll never wake up.

    Now, you may say that this happiness won't be real but happiness is only a feeling and has nothing to do with reality.
    if they can get that feeling in the dream world for the rest of their lives then what's the problem??

    Well, that is all i have to say.....i'll be glad to hear your thoughts on this.

    Oh and i'm just talking about the anime lolz don't flame me by saying that drugs also make you fly but kill you .....i'm just talking about the scenerio in anime
     
         

  7. #147
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by synkross View Post
    OK, here we go.....to OP, good thread but ppl that deny Obito's reasoning and hate him are simply the ppl who didn't want Tobi to turn out to be Obito...it's simple as that.
    Tobi is probably the central character of this entire manga and some ppl didn't want this huge role to be handed to a kid who they never liked in kakashi gaiden....ppl who liked Obito in gaiden were happy when tobi was revealed to be Obito and the rest just started hating the character.
    everyone was a Tobi fan till the mask was broken because everyone had high hopes(Izuna,Kagami,elder bro etc) but plain Obito got to their nerves simply because it was always the Obvious choice.

    So, the ppl who like Obito, understand his reasoning and those who don't like him won't even bother.....

    i actually made a thread about the Moon's eye plan a while ago and i don't see anything wrong with the plan so i'm just gonna paste it here,

    Alright, i wanted to make this thread to hear the opinions on this matter.

    1st off, by now it is clear that Obito is sincere to his goal and if he gets to complete the plan then he will make everyone's wishes come true......(i don't really trust Madara on this, he might just make himself king or something lolz)

    Now, from Obito's prespective he wants to achieve heaven(Dream world) and take everyone to heaven with him.
    a world of winners and all, where everyone will be happy.....
    Ok, here naruto and others disagreed with him because they said that it will be a fake happiness and not reality cuz true happiness is meaningful only if achieved in real world.

    Now, i don't see this logic(maybe i'm wrong) but..how do you define reality?
    as Itachi said,'Reality is only what you believe to be true and real'.....you can also say that it's a feeling.
    like if you are in a dream....you feel it as the reality untill you wake up, only then you can differentiate between dream and reality, but what if you never wake up?

    yes, then that dream will be your reality....e.g that is what was shown in Matrix, if Anderson never knew about it he would just have been living happily in what he considers reality.

    i think you get my point, so how can Naruto and the others say it won't be real if they never know and the jutsu ends only in their death. they would just be living happily without knowing that they are in a dream cuz they'll never wake up.

    Now, you may say that this happiness won't be real but happiness is only a feeling and has nothing to do with reality.
    if they can get that feeling in the dream world for the rest of their lives then what's the problem??

    Well, that is all i have to say.....i'll be glad to hear your thoughts on this.

    Oh and i'm just talking about the anime lolz don't flame me by saying that drugs also make you fly but kill you .....i'm just talking about the scenerio in anime
    You're wrong, I am also one of those people or I used to be. I hated the fact that he was Obito, and hated the page where he says "you let her die" even more, I was mad about it for weeks.

    After watching his past before he became Madara, I realised I was looking at things the wrong way, his current ideology is not becoming of a man who is sad about losing someone, but of a man who realised the true order of the world through that pain, and took it upon himself to change that order forever. Now I couldn't be more pleased with Obito's personality and resolve.
     
         

  8. #148
    NB's Loyal Knight FitzChivalry Farseer's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Try not to read too much. You know its true when people say that a different impression is made every time you read the same book. Naruto is made for your enjoyment and definately not to crack your head open in thinking. Just enjoy being entertained.
     
         

  9. #149
    JIRAIYA perv's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    what triggered obito and got him listening to madara's plan (to even consider it) is RIN'S death.
     
         

  10. #150
    In detention The God of Wind's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz View Post
    Try not to read too much. You know its true when people say that a different impression is made every time you read the same book. Naruto is made for your enjoyment and definately not to crack your head open in thinking. Just enjoy being entertained.
    Naruto is for our entertainment and Kishimoto is doing it for money. I am happy life is so simple for you.
     
         

  11. #151
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by JIRAIYA perv View Post
    what triggered obito and got him listening to madara's plan (to even consider it) is RIN'S death.
    Post #144
     
         

  12. #152
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by The God of Wind View Post
    Post #144
    there is a difference between what triggered him and if he is really convinced that this world has to change. IF obito didn't see rin die maybe he wouldn't have even listened to madara for a second and kept thinking that he is just a crazy old man who wants to control everyone BUT madara used that tragedy to get obito to open up for the idea (seeing someone dear to him die made him question what he believes and wonder if madara was right).
     
         
    Last edited by JIRAIYA perv; 01-05-2013 at 06:47 AM.

  13. #153
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Sigh, do I have to repeat myself:

    Rin Dies
    Obito Cries
    Goes to Madara
    Because she died
    Madara gave Eye of the Moon Plan
    He thought it's swag, so off he ran
    Forms Akatsuki
    Captures the Jinchurikis
    All for the revival of the Juubi
    To power the Infinite Tsukoyomi
    To be together forever with his biddy.
     
         

  14. #154
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by The God of Wind View Post
    Naruto is for our entertainment and Kishimoto is doing it for money. I am happy life is so spimple for you.
    Well you're definately not gonna find the answer to life in a manga.
     
         

  15. #155
    In detention The God of Wind's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by JIRAIYA perv View Post
    there is a difference between between what triggered him and if he is really convinced that this world has to change. IF obito didn't see rin die maybe he wouldn't have even listened to madara for a second and kept thinking that he is just a crazy old man who wants to control everyone BUT madara used that tragedy to get obito to open up for the idea.
    If he was just mad about her dying, Kakashi would be dead. The fact that Kakashi committed such a horrifying atrocity because of the world that they live in, is what made him lose all of his faith. It wasn't her death, it was the act. Kakashi's Chidori through Rin.

    That is why before Obito says: "I will change the fate of this world", he turns and looks back at Kakashi

    He wants to annihilate a world where his comrades killed each other. Madara's plan was the only way to do that.

    If he just wanted vengeance, he would destroy the world and everything in it, he had enough power to do that with just the Mazo and the Juubi is overkill.

    Instead, he wants to change the past, present and future of the world. Erase it's current existence.
     
         
    Last edited by The God of Wind; 01-05-2013 at 06:59 AM.

  16. #156
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz View Post
    Well you're definately not gonna find the answer to life in a manga.
    Lool! And how the hell could you possibly know what I am seeking?
     
         

  17. #157
    JIRAIYA perv's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by The God of Wind View Post
    If he was just mad about her dying, Kakashi would be dead. The fact Kakashi committed such a horrifying atrocity because of the world that they live in, is what made him lose all of his faith. It wasn't her death, it was the act. Kakashi's Chidori through Rin.

    That is why before Obito says: "I will change the fate of this world", he turns and looks back at Kakashi

    He wants to annihilate a world where his comrades killed each other. Madara's plan was the only way to do that.

    If he just wanted vengeance, he would destroy the world and everything in it, he had enough power to do that with just the Mazo and the Juubi is overkill.

    Instead, he wants to change the past, present and future of the world. Erase it's current existence.
    lol bro am not saying anything that contradicts your point, the CURRENT obito is really convinced that this world needs to change BUT that still that doesn't deny that rin's death (the loss of someone dear to him someone he loved) weekend his beliefs and made him consider madara's ideas. all am saying is that obito was a good kid who believed in all that is good so he didn't want anything to do with madara but when the tragedy happened, madara used that to get to him.
     
         

  18. #158
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by JIRAIYA perv View Post
    there is a difference between what triggered him and if he is really convinced that this world has to change. IF obito didn't see rin die maybe he wouldn't have even listened to madara for a second and kept thinking that he is just a crazy old man who wants to control everyone BUT madara used that tragedy to get obito to open up for the idea.
    Yes, that is true. Rin's death was the start of it all and if nothing happened to her, he probably would still be good. But that's not what people are arguing about. One side claims that Obito joined Madara just because Rin died and that he only wants Infinite Tsukuyomi to be with her again. The other side claims that it wasn't just Rin's death but mostly the circumstances of her death that made him want to join Madara, and that he's now striving for peace in the form of an illusion.

    If Rin had tripped and stabbed herself in the heart accidentally (stupid example, but it gets the job done), would Obito have gone back to Madara?
     
         

  19. #159
    JIRAIYA perv's Avatar
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Animaeon View Post
    Yes, that is true. Rin's death was the start of it all and if nothing happened to her, he probably would still be good. But that's not what people are arguing about. One side claims that Obito joined Madara just because Rin died and that he only wants Infinite Tsukuyomi to be with her again. The other side claims that it wasn't just Rin's death but mostly the circumstances of her death that made him want to join Madara, and that he's now striving for peace in the form of an illusion.

    If Rin had tripped and stabbed herself in the heart accidentally (stupid example, but it gets the job done), would Obito have gone back to Madara?
    alright, sorry i didn't see what the debate was about but that is silly. clearly obito believes that this world needs to change and he strongly believes that the eye moon plan is the only solution to achieve peace. now being with RIN again is only a part of what motivates him, but in his head he is really convinced about madara's view of the world.

    now that example you gave indeed was silly lol, but my answer would be MAYBE (i lean more to NO but obito was all about rin at that age). you see rin died in combat (in a life time of war) so madara knew exactly how to use this tragedy to get to the boy.
     
         
    Last edited by JIRAIYA perv; 01-05-2013 at 07:28 AM.

  20. #160
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    Re: Why don't people understand?

    When you said "How can someone who witnessed the death of his beloved, who obviously... had to be killed to serve a higher purpose". I thought you meant how Kakashi, had to kill her, and live with that bourdon. You also kind of answered your own question, by showing him manipulating Kisame. He's only doing it for selfish reasons, unlike the other side of the war. One side of the war is fighting only to protect two people (Naruto, Bee). The other side is only fighting for thereownselfish reasons (to live in a world where every thing works out there way). Anyways,no point in arguing with people whom can't accept an ideal that doesn't suit themselves.
     
         

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