Page 5 of 9 « First 123456789 Last»
Results 81 to 100 of 171
  1. #81
    Academy Student
    Status
    HiryuuSetsuka is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    22
    Location
    In the end restroom stall with Hinata teaching her the finer points of Chakra Control. :P
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    I completely agree with you, free will is an interesting illusion, brought on by the unconscious and subconscious mind and time..
     
         

  2. #82
    Eternal Dawn Lightbringer's Avatar
    Status
    Lightbringer is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    11,816
    Location
    Avalon
    Praise the Sun!
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Conscious View Post
    I agree with you, although my from my point of view it's a bit more scientific. I belive that you can't really "decide" what you do. I think it's called determinism. It's hard to explain, but basically if you are put in a situation with certain conditions you will react in one way and one way only given those conditions. If you were put back in that situation again you would've done the samething. It's in our DNA, it's in the laws of physics. Lets say you drop something into a bucket of water, then the water would move away from the object based on the conditions of the situation. No matter how many times you would do the experiment, given the exact same conditions, the exact same result would occur. Just like this rule applies to water it applies to everything else in the universe. Now this is only true from the perspective of an atheist, but still it has to be there is just no other way.

    If you go one step further you will see that the water around the water affected by the object will move a certain way and only that way from the action that just happend, so there is a chain reaction. This means that if you belive that the universe was created by one motion, for example as in the big bang theory, everything is one large chain reaction and nothing happens randomly. In other words there really is something called fate, it's just a lot sader then what we think of it. If you read this then kudos to you.
    I did and it's very interesting, but it also shows how free will(will without any shackles or limitations) doesn't exist.

    I found the part about the motion interesting, since I was going to use that same sort of example in this thread but take it a step further.

    If energy can't be created nor destroyed, then what created the first force to combine the energy into the big bang "star"?

    Not sure if this is scientifically correct. But the way I see it, something can't be created from nothing. So what created the first motion?
     
         

  3. #83
    Academy Student
    Status
    HiryuuSetsuka is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    22
    Location
    In the end restroom stall with Hinata teaching her the finer points of Chakra Control. :P
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    "I" as a sense of self concept has no free-will what-so-ever because it is built on paradigms and such determined during birth. Simply put, because you didn't make "Yourself" you cannot choose your character and your character influences your behaviour..
     
         

  4. #84
    Academy Student
    Status
    HiryuuSetsuka is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    22
    Location
    In the end restroom stall with Hinata teaching her the finer points of Chakra Control. :P
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    And LightBringer, I too ponder the same thing from the same perspective.. What was the "First" force..? I reckon it must've been "Time" but then you're thinking with play-doe logic once you aim to think faster than time lol.
     
         

  5. #85
    Member DESTRUCTO's Avatar
    Status
    DESTRUCTO is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    722
    Location
    Chicago IL
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    The ability to move beyond instinct. To make choices that can sometimes go against our better judgment. we are free to do as please, and yes there are consequences for some actions. We choose to follow our instinct for survival most of the time, only existing, but certain moments call for us to make a choice, to consider others and other possibilities. To think beyond ourselves and to think of others, that is our free will.

    Now our will is a different story. The human will is a powerful thing. Once our mind is put to something, focused on a goal. Through our will power, any goal can be achieved.
     
         

  6. #86
    Academy Student
    Status
    HiryuuSetsuka is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    22
    Location
    In the end restroom stall with Hinata teaching her the finer points of Chakra Control. :P
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    "To think beyond oneself"..
    Um..
    I'm not sure that's possible.. See, that's the illusion at work, how can one think beyond themselves..? You can only think within yourself with the illusion of otherwise..
     
         

  7. #87
    Atarashi Yoake TheSyren's Avatar
    Status
    TheSyren is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,544
    Location
    Gone. For Good.
    I have left and will not be
    returning. if you care, or
    cared at all, you know where
    to find me. Your Syren is done
    waiting.
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    You know, I posted something similar to this. I said that we are all slaves. It's unfortunate that the original poster doesn't believe in his post
     
         

  8. #88
    Academy Student
    Status
    HiryuuSetsuka is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    22
    Location
    In the end restroom stall with Hinata teaching her the finer points of Chakra Control. :P
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    ^In my opinion. My apologies, without that footnote I can imagine I sound pretentious.. >.<
     
         

  9. #89
    Eternal Dawn Lightbringer's Avatar
    Status
    Lightbringer is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    11,816
    Location
    Avalon
    Praise the Sun!
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    Quote Originally Posted by DESTRUCTO View Post
    The ability to move beyond instinct. To make choices that can sometimes go against our better judgment. we are free to do as please, and yes there are consequences for some actions. We choose to follow our instinct for survival most of the time, only existing, but certain moments call for us to make a choice, to consider others and other possibilities. To think beyond ourselves and to think of others, that is our free will.

    Now our will is a different story. The human will is a powerful thing. Once our mind is put to something, focused on a goal. Through our will power, any goal can be achieved.
    Well not any goal, and the mindset doesn't control reality. If you are starving in the desert, you can't will yourself to find food; you can't will yourself to not die.

    Just because we will ourselves to become rich, doesn't mean we will(yes the chances of becoming rich would sure increase, but it is not a guarantee)

    Same goes with choice, we can't will ourselves to not make certain choices. For example: If you find someone or something(like music) attractive, you cannot will yourself to not be attracted to it.

    It is only until the other driving forces of these are realized(like personality) affects our judgement.
     
         

  10. #90
    Academy Student
    Status
    HiryuuSetsuka is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    22
    Location
    In the end restroom stall with Hinata teaching her the finer points of Chakra Control. :P
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    I wouldn't say "Slaves" per say, but in a way, yes.. I imagine that because we have the concept of "Freedom" we must first imagine a box.. A limit. Then imagine a state outside of it. We measure by comparison, it seems.
     
         

  11. #91
    Member dareak's Avatar
    Status
    dareak is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    801
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    Quote Originally Posted by dareak View Post
    I don't really think we can ever know if free will exists. Look at it this way.

    If "fate" or "destiny" exist for some reason, they are outside forces. If fate or destiny exist it means that our choices are predetermined. Most would say "well I can decide whether or not I will shoot a gun at a child". If fate or destiny exist then every single thought that you made during your decision-making process was predetermined.

    That is why I believe we cannot confirm free will. I do not personally believe in fate or destiny simply because they are outside forces, while free will would be the natural state or base. Then again it could be argued that fate or destiny are the natural state and are not outside forces. At that point I would say that neither can be confirmed and there is no "atheistic"-type viewpoint here, you have to choose(lolz) to believe either fate or free will.
    Bumpity Bump
     
         

  12. #92
    Atarashi Yoake TheSyren's Avatar
    Status
    TheSyren is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,544
    Location
    Gone. For Good.
    I have left and will not be
    returning. if you care, or
    cared at all, you know where
    to find me. Your Syren is done
    waiting.
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    Quote Originally Posted by HiryuuSetsuka View Post
    I wouldn't say "Slaves" per say, but in a way, yes.. I imagine that because we have the concept of "Freedom" we must first imagine a box.. A limit. Then imagine a state outside of it. We measure by comparison, it seems.
    How could you measure anything without a point of refference?
     
         

  13. #93
    Academy Student
    Status
    HiryuuSetsuka is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    22
    Location
    In the end restroom stall with Hinata teaching her the finer points of Chakra Control. :P
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    Aye, so "Reality" is our Prison, so to speak..?
     
         

  14. #94
    Eternal Dawn Lightbringer's Avatar
    Status
    Lightbringer is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    11,816
    Location
    Avalon
    Praise the Sun!
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    Quote Originally Posted by HiryuuSetsuka View Post
    Aye, so "Reality" is our Prison, so to speak..?
    pretty much
     
         

  15. #95
    Member DESTRUCTO's Avatar
    Status
    DESTRUCTO is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    722
    Location
    Chicago IL
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightbringer View Post
    Well not any goal, and the mindset doesn't control reality. If you are starving in the desert, you can't will yourself to find food; you can't will yourself to not die.

    Just because we will ourselves to become rich, doesn't mean we will(yes the chances of becoming rich would sure increase, but it is not a guarantee)

    Same goes with choice, we can't will ourselves to not make certain choices. For example: If you find someone or something(like music) attractive, you cannot will yourself to not be attracted to it.

    It is only until the other driving forces of these are realized(like personality) affects our judgement.
    So how about the guy that cuts his own leg off, that is trapped, and hobbles through the woods for three days to civilization? Did he not will himself to live? Eventually most people give up, lose their will, become broken, and that is when death sets in. The capability of our will is astounding. We can impose it on others through force or charisma to achieve goals that are too great for one person. Through our will we practice, train, build ourselves to become better. No, you can't, through sheer will, fly on your own. I agree that is impossible. However, through your will power you can discipline yourself to go to hang gliding classes until you're certified to fly on your own, with a hang gliders help of course.

    Reality is in the eye of the beholder. Perception is the majority of what reality is. anyone who has taken large doses of mushrooms or LSD know exactly what I'm talking about. It is a crazy moment to look down a hallway, that you have looked down for ten years, and see it completely different.

    You can see yourself as a slave to your boss, a slave to the system, a slave to your instincts and inner impulses, or you can see yourself as a completely free being with the world at their finger tips... I'm gonna warn you though, it's going to take a lot of hard work.
     
         

  16. #96
    Eternal Dawn Lightbringer's Avatar
    Status
    Lightbringer is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    11,816
    Location
    Avalon
    Praise the Sun!
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    Quote Originally Posted by DESTRUCTO View Post
    So how about the guy that cuts his own leg off, that is trapped, and hobbles through the woods for three days to civilization? Did he not will himself to live? Eventually most people give up, lose their will, become broken, and that is when death sets in. The capability of our will is astounding. We can impose it on others through force or charisma to achieve goals that are too great for one person. Through our will we practice, train, build ourselves to become better. No, you can't, through sheer will, fly on your own. I agree that is impossible. However, through your will power you can discipline yourself to go to hang gliding classes until you're certified to fly on your own, with a hang gliders help of course.

    Reality is in the eye of the beholder. Perception is the majority of what reality is. anyone who has taken large doses of mushrooms or LSD know exactly what I'm talking about. It is a crazy moment to look down a hallway, that you have looked down for ten years, and see it completely different.

    You can see yourself as a slave to your boss, a slave to the system, a slave to your instincts and inner impulses, or you can see yourself as a completely free being with the world at their finger tips... I'm gonna warn you though, it's going to take a lot of hard work.
    well 3 days isn't enough to starve to death, and I think that is the max amount of days one can live without water as well.

    But my point is, will is limited. Yes, some people have stronger wills, and willpower is a strong force in our life. But it cannot break boundaries, it cannot do everything always.

    That man surviving for 3 days, crawling to civilization could have had knowledge on how to survive, how to properly cut the leg, how to bandage his wound to stop the bleeding, how maybe find the right herbs to eat, set up campfire and shelter, etc.

    If you don't have that knowledge, then you're dead, regardless of will.....hence the knowledge is an outside and uncertain factor, because everyone has different knowledge.
     
         

  17. #97
    Senior Member
    Status
    ThomasJeffersonwasasadist is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,360
    Horny and sadistic with a dash
    of racism
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    just because you are influenced to do something doesn't mean choice ie free will is just an idea. for example I can say go kill yourself which is influencing you to commit suicide but you can choose not to. I appreciate you taking time to make a thread but your poin.t is invalid .
     
         

  18. #98
    Eternal Dawn Lightbringer's Avatar
    Status
    Lightbringer is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    11,816
    Location
    Avalon
    Praise the Sun!
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasJeffersonwasasadist View Post
    just because you are influenced to do something doesn't mean choice ie free will is just an idea. for example I can say go kill yourself which is influencing you to commit suicide but you can choose not to. I appreciate you taking time to make a thread but your poin.t is invalid .
    yet you simply just telling me to go kill myself has no influence. If there is no reason to kill myself, then the choice has been already made.....I didn't ponder on your words to make a choice; I instinctively acted to not kill myself.

    and acting on instincts doesn't define free will to choose, because you're not the one choosing...the instincts are.
     
         

  19. #99
    Member DESTRUCTO's Avatar
    Status
    DESTRUCTO is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    722
    Location
    Chicago IL
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightbringer View Post
    well 3 days isn't enough to starve to death, and I think that is the max amount of days one can live without water as well.

    But my point is, will is limited. Yes, some people have stronger wills, and willpower is a strong force in our life. But it cannot break boundaries, it cannot do everything always.

    That man surviving for 3 days, crawling to civilization could have had knowledge on how to survive, how to properly cut the leg, how to bandage his wound to stop the bleeding, how maybe find the right herbs to eat, set up campfire and shelter, etc.

    If you don't have that knowledge, then you're dead, regardless of will.....hence the knowledge is an outside and uncertain factor, because everyone has different knowledge.
    You need to start believing in yourself more and believing in others. How about this example. The holocaust survivors. Have you ever seen the pictures of them? So emaciated, that they are pretty much walking skeletons. It was through their will that they survived such a horrific event.

    It was through human will that a railroad was built from coast to coast. It was through will that the pyramids were built. Yes knowledge is an important factor, but it is through our will that we gain that knowledge, that know how. With out the desire to learn how to do something, it will never be done. We aren't forced to strive for better things, we aren't forced to improve our lot in life. You have to want it. You have to move beyond your instinct to be comfortable to gain something great. It is our instinct to do as little as possible, to make ourselves comfortable. We get pleasure from it.
     
         

  20. #100
    Eternal Dawn Lightbringer's Avatar
    Status
    Lightbringer is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    11,816
    Location
    Avalon
    Praise the Sun!
     

    Re: Free will is only an idea

    Quote Originally Posted by DESTRUCTO View Post
    You need to start believing in yourself more and believing in others. How about this example. The holocaust survivors. Have you ever seen the pictures of them? So emaciated, that they are pretty much walking skeletons. It was through their will that they survived such a horrific event.

    It was through human will that a railroad was built from coast to coast. It was through will that the pyramids were built. Yes knowledge is an important factor, but it is through our will that we gain that knowledge, that know how. With out the desire to learn how to do something, it will never be done. We aren't forced to strive for better things, we aren't forced to improve our lot in life. You have to want it. You have to move beyond your instinct to be comfortable to gain something great. It is our instinct to do as little as possible, to make ourselves comfortable. We get pleasure from it.
    I'm going to make this short since I'm pretty tired and will be my last comment for the day on this thread

    about the holocaust example. My grandparents were survivors, what drove them was fear.....the fear of dying, the fear of being captured and tortured. Fear is an outside force that generates willpower....so does anger, and so does love. You can't generate willpower without an outside force.

    This outside force is what gives you the will to live....it still isn't a pure original decision.
     
         

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •