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  1. #41
    The Devil's Advocate Shinobi Train's Avatar
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoDKurosaki View Post
    Nicely said again. But the beginning part is what I said earlier in the thread. I don't want to take away guns, because I still want to be protected, but I don't think we need assault rifles and all that jazz. And I said earlier too that the bad guys would just keep them and use the black market, and we would be helpless. What do you think we should legalize?
    Sure, assault rifles do seem to be unnecessary...but it's still nice that untrained people have them. You see, while they're struggling to hit me even once, I can put effective rounds down range.

    First off I think marijuana should be decriminalized by the federal government and all the states and be available for recreational use. Furthermore, insurance companies for employment should not even be able to run a THC test let alone care if the person has used it. On top of that, drugs in general should be legal because the US constitution says nothing about taking away freedoms. However, drug testing should be done on many of those things for employment; if someone wants to cook themselves with Meth then let them do it...but don't let them have a job too just so they can pay for such an addiction.
     
         

  2. #42
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    If every second Jew would own a gun in 1939, there would be no holocaust.
     
         

  3. #43
    Member NarutoDKurosaki's Avatar
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobi Train View Post
    Sure, assault rifles do seem to be unnecessary...but it's still nice that untrained people have them. You see, while they're struggling to hit me even once, I can put effective rounds down range.

    First off I think marijuana should be decriminalized by the federal government and all the states and be available for recreational use. Furthermore, insurance companies for employment should not even be able to run a THC test let alone care if the person has used it. On top of that, drugs in general should be legal because the US constitution says nothing about taking away freedoms. However, drug testing should be done on many of those things for employment; if someone wants to cook themselves with Meth then let them do it...but don't let them have a job too just so they can pay for such an addiction.
    I agree with you on everything. I would rather have marijuana legal than alcohol, marijuana does hurt anyone, alcohol kills people. Also, as long as its not harming anyone else, people can do drugs on their own accord. They will just be harming themselves because of their own decisions. You and I think similar
    Quote Originally Posted by drknght View Post
    If every second Jew would own a gun in 1939, there would be no holocaust.
    Their would still be a war.
     
         

  4. #44
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoDKurosaki View Post
    Their would still be a war.
    Yes.
     
         

  5. #45
    Senior Member 7th Biggest OP Fan's Avatar
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    The thing I find funny about the Connecticut shooting is that the guy took the weapons from his mom (not dad) and that it happened in the state with the most strict gun laws. The stereotypes just don't fit. 1st, what is a mom doing with guns like that. It just seems way off from the norm. I can see the kid taking them from the typical stereotype (a redneck, like the guys you hear about in Texas (not trying to discriminate either)), but from a working mom. The percent of this happening is just really low. To add to this, it happened in the strictest gun law state. That just adds to the probability of something like this not happening there. Not to mention that it is a really small state so the sample pool is even smaller too. It just doesn't add up in a mathematical point of view.

    Why didn't this happen in a place like Texas? They have the least control on guns, they have the stereotype of people that fit who have guns, and they have the 2nd largest population of people there out of all the states. If something like what happened in Connecticut was to happen, why didn't it happen there. The only conclusion I have come up with are the guns. People carry guns on them all the time. If someone was going to cause a massacre, most likely they would be shot by a civilian. I think this detours people from committing crimes.

    So to answer the question, I think more guns would be better, not less. Although, people walking around with semi automatic weapons all the time would be really ridiculous. I do feel that weapons like that are way too much, but I see more bad from banning them then good.

    I think the best expression here to use is, "you don't bring a knife to a gun fight." Knowing that, the best thing to do is bring a gun to a gun fight right. What happened in these tragedies was they were bringing fists to a gun fight. There just isn't any chance for them, specially kids. If we ban semi automatic weapons, people will still have hand guns. They will still bring those guns and people will still be armed with fists. The next step would be to ban all guns, then the fights can be more even (ignoring the fact criminals can still get a hold of guns even if they are banned). You see where I am going with this right? The current path will lead to a ban on all guns or even all weapons without even fixing the problem properly. Sure it could make shooting from little kids and normal citizens less frequent, but it puts the law abiding citizens at a huge disadvantage from criminals. This could cause other crimes to skyrocket, but no one looks at the consequences that far ahead. Everyone just focuses on the immediate problem and wants it fixed asap.

    Should we equip little kids with guns so they can protect themselves in case the one in a billion chance of this happening again? Hell no. Should we equip teachers with guns? I say no to this too. This situation is really complicated for a definite answer, and way too many scenarios could happen if the above were set into motion. Some of them are good, more bad. I think maybe having an armed guard on campus might be a possible solution. This would create a new job for every school. Plus, they know how to use a gun. They also know how to not get a gun taken away from them. I'm a huge believer in only carry a weapon if you know how to use it. If you spend time trying to figure out how it works, you are good as dead against someone who knows how to. Equipping teachers and little kids with guns when they do not know who to use them is a really dumb idea.


    Scrolling up I realized this was way more then I thought so I'm done with my little rant. Read it if you want.
     
         

  6. #46
    Senior Member KuraiandAlbel's Avatar
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    I did a whole project on this for my philosophy class, and I just came to one conclusion... That I really don't give a d@mn. I mean...sure it is a major issue today. However, what about the people that have the pure intent of just using a gun to protect themselves, or to use for hunting. On the other hand, we also have those horrible people in this world that go out and shoot up innocent people. It is a real debate that cannot be handled lightly. Since I hate getting into these sorts of things I tend to just stay away. Eventually some real law will be passed and even if there is a law, people will find ways to commit horrible acts. Which makes me think that no matter what we try to do, these things will continue to happen. That humanity needs to be looked at as how it is now.

    Ok...that was longer than I wanted it to be. My bad. ^_^;
     
         

  7. #47
    Member NarutoDKurosaki's Avatar
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7th Biggest OP Fan View Post
    The thing I find funny about the Connecticut shooting is that the guy took the weapons from his mom (not dad) and that it happened in the state with the most strict gun laws. The stereotypes just don't fit. 1st, what is a mom doing with guns like that. It just seems way off from the norm. I can see the kid taking them from the typical stereotype (a redneck, like the guys you hear about in Texas (not trying to discriminate either)), but from a working mom. The percent of this happening is just really low. To add to this, it happened in the strictest gun law state. That just adds to the probability of something like this not happening there. Not to mention that it is a really small state so the sample pool is even smaller too. It just doesn't add up in a mathematical point of view.

    Why didn't this happen in a place like Texas? They have the least control on guns, they have the stereotype of people that fit who have guns, and they have the 2nd largest population of people there out of all the states. If something like what happened in Connecticut was to happen, why didn't it happen there. The only conclusion I have come up with are the guns. People carry guns on them all the time. If someone was going to cause a massacre, most likely they would be shot by a civilian. I think this detours people from committing crimes.

    So to answer the question, I think more guns would be better, not less. Although, people walking around with semi automatic weapons all the time would be really ridiculous. I do feel that weapons like that are way too much, but I see more bad from banning them then good.

    I think the best expression here to use is, "you don't bring a knife to a gun fight." Knowing that, the best thing to do is bring a gun to a gun fight right. What happened in these tragedies was they were bringing fists to a gun fight. There just isn't any chance for them, specially kids. If we ban semi automatic weapons, people will still have hand guns. They will still bring those guns and people will still be armed with fists. The next step would be to ban all guns, then the fights can be more even (ignoring the fact criminals can still get a hold of guns even if they are banned). You see where I am going with this right? The current path will lead to a ban on all guns or even all weapons without even fixing the problem properly. Sure it could make shooting from little kids and normal citizens less frequent, but it puts the law abiding citizens at a huge disadvantage from criminals. This could cause other crimes to skyrocket, but no one looks at the consequences that far ahead. Everyone just focuses on the immediate problem and wants it fixed asap.

    Should we equip little kids with guns so they can protect themselves in case the one in a billion chance of this happening again? Hell no. Should we equip teachers with guns? I say no to this too. This situation is really complicated for a definite answer, and way too many scenarios could happen if the above were set into motion. Some of them are good, more bad. I think maybe having an armed guard on campus might be a possible solution. This would create a new job for every school. Plus, they know how to use a gun. They also know how to not get a gun taken away from them. I'm a huge believer in only carry a weapon if you know how to use it. If you spend time trying to figure out how it works, you are good as dead against someone who knows how to. Equipping teachers and little kids with guns when they do not know who to use them is a really dumb idea.


    Scrolling up I realized this was way more then I thought so I'm done with my little rant. Read it if you want.
    Nicely said.
    Quote Originally Posted by KuraiandAlbel View Post
    I did a whole project on this for my philosophy class, and I just came to one conclusion... That I really don't give a d@mn. I mean...sure it is a major issue today. However, what about the people that have the pure intent of just using a gun to protect themselves, or to use for hunting. On the other hand, we also have those horrible people in this world that go out and shoot up innocent people. It is a real debate that cannot be handled lightly. Since I hate getting into these sorts of things I tend to just stay away. Eventually some real law will be passed and even if there is a law, people will find ways to commit horrible acts. Which makes me think that no matter what we try to do, these things will continue to happen. That humanity needs to be looked at as how it is now.

    Ok...that was longer than I wanted it to be. My bad. ^_^;
    You're right
     
         

  8. #48
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    /end thread.
     
         

  9. #49
    Member NarutoDKurosaki's Avatar
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by YowYan View Post
    /end thread.
    its just a discussion though.
     
         

  10. #50
    Member Sacal's Avatar
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    Truthfully I don't think Gun Control will do anything. People are more opt. to go against laws then follow them, and if there were no guns or if they were harder to get , they'd smuggle them in or find something else to use in its place. If anything Harsher punishment or Better law enforcement.
     
         

  11. #51
    Member NarutoDKurosaki's Avatar
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Toxic View Post
    Nope, gun control doesn't mean less deaths. People will always find ways to get their hands on weapons. Plus you're ignoring the fact that there's many other ways criminals can attack people.

    IMO, they should just let those psychologically stable to handle guns.
    Hey man, i'm not trying to sound rude but i was just playing the devils advocate. this is a discussion, not a debate . But you're right, in the UK, there is very strict gun laws, but outrageous amounts of knife violence.
     
         

  12. #52
    S-Rank Criminal Kiiszame's Avatar
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    you add more gun control you only keep good people from getting guns while the bad people will always find a way to get guns anyways. Its this world thats messed up not just one thing.
     
         

  13. #53
    Member NarutoDKurosaki's Avatar
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiiszame View Post
    you add more gun control you only keep good people from getting guns while the bad people will always find a way to get guns anyways. Its this world thats messed up not just one thing.
    A completely agree with you!
     
         

  14. #54
    Uchiha-Versteherin Kikki's Avatar
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    Freedom is fine, yeah, but I cannot say I got the freedom to kill everyone who pisses me off. So I agree, it is needed. Didn't know things are that bad there. My husband is American and he always told me how it would have been impossible to simply get anything except for air rifles there (I was surprised what you can buy at Wallmart though, in Germany that would be unthinkable).
     
         

  15. #55
    Member NarutoDKurosaki's Avatar
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kikki View Post
    Freedom is fine, yeah, but I cannot say I got the freedom to kill everyone who pisses me off. So I agree, it is needed. Didn't know things are that bad there. My husband is American and he always told me how it would have been impossible to simply get anything except for air rifles there (I was surprised what you can buy at Wallmart though, in Germany that would be unthinkable).
    interesting. thanks for sharing!
     
         

  16. #56
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    Bad people will find ways to get guns, even if there are laws that say you can't get them. Remember this: Bad people don't obey laws. Strict gun control would leave good people defenseless.
     
         

  17. #57
    Member NarutoDKurosaki's Avatar
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse Ninja View Post
    Bad people will find ways to get guns, even if there are laws that say you can't get them. Remember this: Bad people don't obey laws. Strict gun control would leave good people defenseless.
    Good point!
     
         

  18. #58
    Cool Guy Swizzik's Avatar
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    I want to know how people get illegal guns? Aren't all guns marked with serial numbers?
     
         

  19. #59
    Senior Member Aim64C's Avatar
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kikki View Post
    Freedom is fine, yeah, but I cannot say I got the freedom to kill everyone who pisses me off.
    We don't, either.

    That's not what gun control is about, though. It's about what you can and can't own. People get pissed and run each other over with cars all the time across the world. We even have drivers' licensing programs enforced... still, people drive while inebriated or decide to text and drive... or simply get outraged and run anther person off the road.

    We need better car control before we implement gun control. There are more firearms in this nation than registered (meaning driving) motor vehicles - and the automobiles are responsible for 3x the number of deaths as firearm homicide is.

    So I agree, it is needed. Didn't know things are that bad there.
    They aren't.

    The only reason things "are bad" is because we have yet to enact a campaign to exterminate the meth rings (operate like insurgents - no centralized structure) nor have we enacted any strong measures to route organized drug trades/gangs and reinforce the borders. The problem isn't that people are buying firearms.

    The problem is that too many bad people have been allowed to exist in this country and nobody has had the stones to kill off the cancer as it arises. Now, we pretty much need to bring our military back home and run counter insurgency operations at the maximum supportable op-tempo for about two years to really start to make an impact on the meth rings and to get our borders back under control.

    I sound harsh. I really do.

    But these 'things' that look like people are not salvageable. Many people have tried - and many people have become victims of theft, home invasion, and in some of the 'harder' regions - violence (most of it around here is still fairly subdued - but there are enough paranoid tweakers who seem to think they are in Grand Theft Auto for them to start acting stupid). You open your heart and your generosity to these people... and they take that opportunity to invite their circle into your home (or anything they can find of value) and liberate it from your custody.

    And it's not a romantic "Robinhood" story of stealing from the well-off. They steal from the easy prey - the single mothers/fathers, the people who have to improvise their home construction, people working two or three jobs to try and earn enough to save and get ahead in life...

    The solution is simple and very related to the counter-insurgency operations we have been conducting in Iraq and Afghanistan. Using arts of the trade, one locates houses and facilities these rings operate out of. Get 3 5-man teams on any given house, breach the thing, and kill anything in the house bigger than a cat. Under no circumstance should an adult individual be sent to prison where they will simply get free room and board only to be released to do it all over again in a few years.

    Sure - it goes against many of the concepts of due process of law... but these people will steal the blanket from a homeless paraplegic in a wheelchair. You simply cannot allow them to exist in any society.

    Forgive my rant - I simply grow weary of the trends in this town and every place I go to across the U.S. I just grow tired of seeing such blatant problems in society, then see the media go ape-**** over someone using an AR-15 like it was some kind of China Lake Special Weapons project reverse-engineered from a flying saucer... and act like it's inconceivable that people would buy such a thing.

    Kind of makes me wonder ... if someone were to go on a vigilante shooting rampage against meth rings and other such blights... would the media portray him/her as a hero... or a villain?

    My husband is American and he always told me how it would have been impossible to simply get anything except for air rifles there (I was surprised what you can buy at Wallmart though, in Germany that would be unthinkable).
    Depends upon where you live, really. My state is pretty easy going in terms of regulations on what you can purchase. I can purchase better rifles than what our military is issued (though, to be fair, our military goes for some abstract idea of cost effectiveness) and get several after-market additions that will give me better optics and some other gear-oriented options (again, compared to standard issue... most of our guys in the military end up purchasing some of these things on their own - almost all of our tactical belts, load bearing vests, and some of our magazine pouches were all purchased on our own dime).

    But, basically, a Marine can come out of the military and get himself a better setup (as a rifleman) than he would have had in the Marines. He won't have anything along the lines of explosives - but those are not nearly as available as Call of Duty would lead one to believe (for the Marine in a warzone, that is).

    Most of the firearm violence in the U.S. is with handguns. Not with "assault weapons" (there really is no such classification - unless you go by the Clinton administration's ban... which was completely arbitrary... a model of one firearm using a composite butt-stock... the same firearm with a wood stock, however, was perfectly fine... same weapon - same mechanics... but the composite stock made it "an assault weapon" that needed to be banned). In most cases, the victim and the shooter know each other, and it involves some kind of an argument.

    Much of the rest can be attributed to gang violence - and the small portion of deaths each year from rifles can be attributed to hunting accidents and your occasional odd-ball who prefers a rifle to a handgun.

    There are millions of gun owners in this country who go each day without harming anyone. There are millions of car owners who go each day without harming anyone.

    The right of each to do so is paid by the victims of those who chose to abuse the freedoms granted under that right. Over 30,000 people - the population of the town I live in - die each and every year in the U.S. due almost exclusively to irresponsible drivers (there are a few fatalities that might have been caused by mechanical failure that was not due to negligence of the operator). Roughly 10,000 people die each year die at the hands of irresponsible firearm owners (though the FBI reported statistics include cases deemed to be self-defense and those killed by officers in the line of duty - though the number is small).

    We readily accept the cost of our freedom to have our own motor vehicle as being affordable.

    I, at least personally, accept the cost of the right to own firearms as being worth it. By all means - reduce the cost of each. But don't reduce the right. If someone out there wants a firearm to commit a crime - there are more than enough out there for him/her to use. Don't make me a criminal for wanting to own a particular type of firearm that I am comfortable with.
     
         

  20. #60
    Senior Member Aim64C's Avatar
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    Re: Are you for gun control? Why or Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzik View Post
    I want to know how people get illegal guns? Aren't all guns marked with serial numbers?
    Firearms are a huge target for theft for this reason.

    That said - only certain parts of firearms are serialized. I can buy most of an AR-15 (the most difficult to manufacture being the barrel). If I have some knowledge and ability of how to machine - I could construct my own lower receiver (the part that is normally serialized) in my garage.

    In countries that have the ability to support the industry - quite a few make firearms conforming to a certain platform (such as the AR-15, AK-47, etc) and simply do not serialize the weapons. Their government doesn't require it, and there is a market for such firearms all over the world. Even if the government were to publicly be against the nature of the business - the revenue it brings to the region would be impossible to argue with.

    As for where people get them...

    Well - if you can get a hold of illegal substances, you can get a hold of illegal equipment. You might have to do some talking to people you'd never met before (and would rather not meet again... or maybe you feel like this is a kindred soul... depends on you) in some places that have long since been abandoned by law enforcement - but you can find them.

    Sometimes they'll find you... like I said - they are popular items for theft, and the market for hot items is an interesting one to analyze the logistics of (the movement of stuff that gets stolen and where it ends up, how it gets sold - what for, etc). People looking to get rid something hot will gamble with approaching you to give you an offer you can't help but consider.
     
         

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