Tobi was never meant to Obito

[Nishio]

WELL im sticking to my belief n if obito truely thought his technique could be faster than minato then he really was a crappy student.

the Raikage also thought he could hit Minato i dont know why he thought that but he did. he was confident in his ability, as was obito.

[Nishio]

Why make kakashi gaiden???? To develop obito, ren, and kakashi's relationship...

[sage22]

the Raikage also thought he could hit Minato i dont know why he thought that but he did. he was confident in his ability, as was obito.

Yea but the raikage had never met a ninja as fast as him except his father n brother. Obito on the other hand was trained by this guy for a couple of years. That would be like if lee fought guy n lee takes off his weight to attack guy only to realize that when guy takes off his weight he's even faster than lee.

[sage22]

Why make kakashi gaiden???? To develop obito, ren, and kakashi's relationship...

I'm not doubting kishimoto I think he knows what he is doing n will tie all the loose ends together but I do think he's made some bad choices but that's just my own opinion. One bad choice I believe is the words he had obito say during the fight with minato.

[Nishio]

Yea but the raikage had never met a ninja as fast as him except his father n brother. Obito on the other hand was trained by this guy for a couple of years. That would be like if lee fought guy n lee takes off his weight to attack guy only to realize that when guy takes off his weight he's even faster than lee.

but raikage also knew of his technique, you cant have it both ways, and lee probably would think he could hit guy, because he was confident in his ability. dont forget lee trained with neji, and always thought he could beat neji only to get beat up every time.... you dont know if they ever met before that, its not like A didnt know Minatos technique... and what words were those?

[Mark Nutt]

Tobi was Obito all along.
1)Tobi and Kakashi shared the same mongekyo sharingan in that same time in the manga you're showing.
2) When Tobi was facing Team Kakashi and team Kurenai, He specifically revealed his sharingan to kakashi and addressed him directly.

1) When you have multiple characters stealing DNA and dojutsu, something as simple as Kakashi and Tobi sharing a similar ocular technique doesn't hold any significance, even more so when you see Tobi has a mass collection of Sharingan.

2)First, he doesn't even single out Kakashi but addresses all of them as a group. Also up until the his reveal Tobi showed no signs of ever having any relationship or past acquaintanceship with Kakashi. Secondly, yes, there's no disputing that Tobi revealed his sharingan twice infront of Kakashi before his reveal and even used Kamui directly infront of him on both occasions. Take note though that only a base sharingan is activated before a S/T jutsu (Kamui) is used by Tobi. It wasn't until after Tobi's reveal that his S/T jutsu was fully confirmed to be the same jutsu that Kakashi uses, Kamui, which is a MANGEKYO sharingan technique, but if the entire reveal and setup had actually been planned then as many may say, then we should already know that Tobi's using a MS technique yet only a base sharingan is activated. Kishi clearly hadn't fully been thinking this through, especially when you look at these three panels.

http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/8/43-...?v=11206717386

http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/8/43-...?v=11207318506

http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/8/43-...?v=11207318506

Yes, in one of the panels WE as the reader can't actually see Tobi's eye anymore while Kamui's being activated but Kakashi, who had still had his own sharingan activated, can, yet he doesn't take notice to that. He simply refers to Tobi's eye as being a sharingan, proof that originally Tobi and Kakashi didn't share the same MS, they simply shared a similar S/T jutsu, one which was used through an MS and one that wasn't. If Tobi=Obito had been fully planned from the start which many people claim, then Kakashi should've clearly seen Tobi actually activating a MS before using Kamui and began to put two and two together. There's just no way Tobi=Obito was planned from the start. :shrug:
Hell, even the name Tobi is nothing more than a failed anagram for Obito; a proper anagram contain all the letters from the original a name/word.

[sage22]

but raikage also knew of his technique, you cant have it both ways, and lee probably would think he could hit guy, because he was confident in his ability. dont forget lee trained with neji, and always thought he could beat neji only to get beat up every time.... you dont know if they ever met before that, its not like A didnt know Minatos technique... and what words were those?

Yea but with the raikage its different. Everyone knew of minato jutsu that's why there was flee on sight orders if you came across him. But its not the same as being trained by the dude n see his ability up close like obito.
Think about it like this let's say you are training with the fastest guy ever to improve your speed. You train together for 3 years n you seen them never ever lose a single race but then you go train for a year with someone else. Then the next time you see him you decide to race him for yourself only to realize that your still not as fast as him. Would you be shocked to realize that you are still not faster than him.

[Nishio]

Yea but with the raikage its different. Everyone knew of minato jutsu that's why there was flee on sight orders if you came across him. But its not the same as being trained by the dude n see his ability up close like obito.
Think about it like this let's say you are training with the fastest guy ever to improve your speed. You train together for 3 years n you seen them never ever lose a single race but then you go train for a year with someone else. Then the next time you see him you decide to race him for yourself only to realize that your still not as fast as him. Would you be shocked to realize that you are still not faster than him.

if i did other training besides just with him yes... and tobi wasnt even shocked to say. it was more admiring and acknowledgement... go read it for yourself but thats a weak reason for why it wasnt meant to be obito

[Nishio]

Yea but with the raikage its different. Everyone knew of minato jutsu that's why there was flee on sight orders if you came across him. But its not the same as being trained by the dude n see his ability up close like obito.
Think about it like this let's say you are training with the fastest guy ever to improve your speed. You train together for 3 years n you seen them never ever lose a single race but then you go train for a year with someone else. Then the next time you see him you decide to race him for yourself only to realize that your still not as fast as him. Would you be shocked to realize that you are still not faster than him.

dont you remeber how when sakura and naruto fought kakashi they acted about how strong he was still compared to them...?

[sage22]

if i did other training besides just with him yes... and tobi wasnt even shocked to say. it was more admiring and acknowledgement... go read it for yourself but thats a weak reason for why it wasnt meant to be obito

That wasn't the only reason the main reason was cuz I thought it was tobirama just cuz his name actually had tobi in it

[Nishio]

That wasn't the only reason the main reason was cuz I thought it was tobirama just cuz his name actually had tobi in it

THATS A HORRIBLE REASON!!!! i thought that too lol

[sage22]

dont you remeber how when sakura and naruto fought kakashi they acted about how strong he was still compared to them...?

Yea but they were well aware of his ability so much that they thought he had better taijutsu than lee, a stronger nose than kiba, and was better with the shariugan than a pure uchiha. Like I said obito must have been a crappy student or really didn't understand how strong his sensei truely was.

[Nishio]

Yea but they were well aware of his ability so much that they thought he had better taijutsu than lee, a stronger nose than kiba, and was better with the shariugan than a pure uchiha. Like I said obito must have been a crappy student or really didn't understand how strong his sensei truely was.

im sure Tobi thought that minato was really strong or he would have tried to kill him, and not trap him in his dimension.... but hell for all we know minato could teleport out...

[sage22]

im sure Tobi thought that minato was really strong or he would have tried to kill him, and not trap him in his dimension.... but hell for all we know minato could teleport out...

True but u know we are making this thread the hottest thread of the week if we keep going like this hahaaha

[Nishio]

True but u know we are making this thread the hottest thread of the week if we keep going like this hahaaha

true lol

[robert31393]

for him to give the most predictive answer to who the identity of tobi is, is just a smack to all of his readers faces. i feel really disrespected.its obvious he made it up at the last minute.

[ghost nappa]

Bogard, I know what you're talking about. The best I can come up with is that he changed his mind several times regarding Tobi. In the beginning, he dropped a bunch of hints (similar name, similar power to kakashi) implying he wanted him to be Obito. Later we get a bunch of evidence he wasn't. Most of them were red herrings, but there's one that still can't be explained: When Kakashi 'died' he saw Obito alongside Rin and Minato in the afterlife. Speaking of Minato, he showed no emotion whatsoever when facing his old sensei. I'm wanting to say that he wasn't planned to be Obito when he fought Minato, but the Konan fight came shortly afterwards and the messed up part of his face was revealed making us think he was an old fart the whole time. I don't think he was ever intended to be Madara. Kinda hard to figure what kishi was thinking with the character.

[Nishio]

Bogard, I know what you're talking about. The best I can come up with is that he changed his mind several times regarding Tobi. In the beginning, he dropped a bunch of hints (similar name, similar power to kakashi) implying he wanted him to be Obito. Later we get a bunch of evidence he wasn't. Most of them were red herrings, but there's one that still can't be explained: When Kakashi 'died' he saw Obito alongside Rin and Minato in the afterlife. Speaking of Minato, he showed no emotion whatsoever when facing his old sensei. I'm wanting to say that he wasn't planned to be Obito when he fought Minato, but the Konan fight came shortly afterwards and the messed up part of his face was revealed making us think he was an old fart the whole time. I don't think he was ever intended to be Madara. Kinda hard to figure what kishi was thinking with the character.

i cant leave this topic alone i love it haha, but when he saw minato and obito and rin he wasnt seeing them, it was just a picture... it would be impossible to see minato because his soul is sealed from when he sealed half of the kyubii. the only bit of minato that was still around is what he left with naruto to be able to talk to him.

[UchihaInza]

no i think the writer knew what he was doing Uchiha Inza

[ghost nappa]

Oh that was just a memory of a picture and not actually them? OK, thanks for clearing that up.

[binderr]

I think it was meant to be Hanzou all the way, but then he made a last minute change to Danzo. And then he made a last ten-second change to Tonton. And then he made a last second change to Obito.

[justinreidthis]

Minato Rin and obito in kakashis afterlife were mere memories, as we all know the only part of minato that was not seal away along with half the kiubi was stored in naruto/which wasnt much at that. So there you have it folks ...kakashi seeing obito after he died had absolutly nothing to do with obito being tobi

[robert31393]

Oh that was just a memory of a picture and not actually them? OK, thanks for clearing that up.

I dont think it was just kakashi's imagination.if it was then minato would of been there.the fact that minato wasnt there supports that kakashi really was in the afterlife.

[ghost nappa]

Another thing I noticed, although it's likely oversight:Madara mentioned that he found Obito beside the boulder. Now go back and rewatch Kakashi Gaiden. The whole cave collapsed on him. Beside the boulder was another boulder.

[PureSkillz]

I totally agree. And the way Obito happened to "slip" through those boulders

and not die was complete BS. We were all like "okay maybe he Kaumi'd through",
only to see he awakened MS like 3 chapters later..