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  1. #1
    Karasu Blaze Release's Avatar
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    Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    Im certain majority of Hashirama fans or those who favour him over Hiruzen will have their sword and shield in hand ready to do battle, with me in my current slumber id like to evade any rigorous discussion though im willing to answer questions.

    Anyway as the title says Hiruzen knows and can perform all konoha jutsu's. Many including myself in the past have declined this hype by stating that means he knows hidden techniques and Kekkei Genkai however that is wrong, at least when you fully understand and digest that hype.
    So does hiruzen know all and can perform all konoha jutsu's? Off course he can. Ill start from the very beginning.

    Every village have ancient techniques developed by the village ancestors and these techniques are usually kept a secret, with only a few have access to these techniques. Ill give you two examples. Kakuzu stole the village's prized jutsu; 'Jiongu' [1]. Another example is Deidora. He stole the village's jutsu which allows the wielder to infuse chakra into objects [2]

    I believe we can both call these abilities, techniques of their respective village, ill talk more on this later but back to Hiruzen. The whole reason i mentioned how these two akatsuki member's acquired their powers was firstly to note that there are techniques of their village but also such techniques are guarded with only a few having access to them. Which brings us back to the Mizuki situation because its very similar, as we know he corrupted naruto into stealing the Fuin no Sho which was located in the Hokage's residence. As we know its a scroll that contains many jutsu's which was forbidden by the Shodai Hokage [3], this is where it starts.

    The scroll was located in the hokage's residence which the Hiruzen has access to [1]. Look again, at that page, naruto had a ton of scrolls to choose from and that was just one section of the room



    Lets go back, 13 years ago when the fox attacked [4]. Look vividly behind Hiruzen and tell me what you see, for a better view there you go, does it not look like a scroll shelf behind him stacked with tons of scrolls.




    The very first technique that naruto was able to learn note was the kage bunshin [6]. Now look at how thick the scroll is, naruto had barely opened it when he learnt the seals for the kage bunshin, if the scroll was undone surely the amount of techniques in this scroll alone, i believe its safe to say will be alot.




    So where do these scrolls come from. The answer is simple, from the clan with a thousand skills and we know this because its one of these scrolls that naruto stole. As we all know Konoha was formed by the Senju and Uchiha, but its the Senju who brought up this idea and its them who have shaped konoha into what it is. Anyway as i said before the senju were known as a clan with a thousand skills [5]



    As the DB says its made up of shinobi's with expertise in ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu.
    As we all know, Hashirama and Tobirama were the teachers of Hiruzen, having the leader and vice leader of a clan with such mastery of all 3 forms of ninja art means that you gain access to these abilities which they also left behind and its reflected in Hiruzen's databook scores. None, not the sannins nor akatsuki have max for Nin, tai and gen in the DB.



    What im trying to point out this whole this time is that Hiruzens hype for knowing all konoha jutsu's are jutsu's by the ancestors of konoha, those are konoha jutsu's. Ill give you other examples of possible konoha jutsu's.
    Kurenai's genjutsu Magen: Jubaku Satsu [1] This is what the DB has to say about it:

    GENJUTSU; Magen: Jubaku Satsu (Genjutsu; Demonic Illusion: Woodbound Assassination)
    User: Yuuhi Kurenai
    Supplementary; Close range; Rank: B

    Main text

    One of the genjutsu that have been passed along since ancient times in Konoha. One is completely robbed of their mobility as they see the mirage of a tree coiling itself around them! Given that the subject remains conscious, this jutsu proves extremely efficient for information-gathering.

    Databook 2, p 275


    Ill quote the important bit "One of the genjutsu that have been passed along since ancient times in Konoha."

    Another example, majority of people do not know that there are many forms of shunshin.

    Body Flicker Technique (瞬身の術, Shunshin no Jutsu)
    Ninjutsu, D-rank, Supplementary
    Users: Gaara, Hatake Kakashi, et al

    A movement technique with extreme speed like a gust of wind!!

    Appearing along with the wind, disappearing like the wind: the ninja's instantaneous movement technique. This super fast movement is almost impossible to grasp with the naked eye. If seen by an ordinary person, it would seem as if the user has teleported... In reality, the user has vitalized his body with chakra and moved at super speeds. The amount of chakra used up differs depending on the distance and elevation of their stopping point in comparison to the starting point.

    The cloud of sand dances in the wind

    [picture of Gaara using the Body Flicker]
    [picture of Haku using the Body Flicker]
    [picture of Kakashi using the Body Flicker]
    ↑→Haku's and Kakashi's Body Flicker. Dancing leaves and disappearing in an instant like mist. There are many variations of the "Body Flicker" for the various villages and user. Gaara's use includes the "Sand Body Flicker"*. There are also the "Mist Body Flicker"**, "Water Body Flicker"***, and "Leaf Body Flicker"****, among many others.


    *Sand Body Flicker (砂瞬身, Suna Shunshin)
    **Mist Body Flicker" (霧瞬身, Kiri Shunshin)
    ***Water Body Flicker" (水瞬身, Mizu Shunshin)
    ****"Leaf Body Flicker" (木ノ葉瞬身, Konoha Shunshin)

    Databook 1, p 197


    This various shunshin's are not exclusive to the villages but again im trying to show you that there are technique that is derived from the village. We see kakashi using the konoha shunshin at the chunnin exam with sasuke [1]

    Hayate demonstrates the Mikazuki no Mai which again hints to being a konoha jutsu [1, 2]

    I believe and im certain techniques with konoha or 'leaf style' possible hints to being konoha jutsu which could possible mean that these other like:
    • Konoha Tsumuji Senpu
    • Konoha Reppu
    • Konoha Kaigansho
    • Konoha Senpu


    In fact i believe Gai and Lee's Goken fighting style and the ability to use Hachimon were not developed by Gai, but rather these are techniques developed by the clan with a thousand hands, who had mastery of the 3 forms of ninja art, the senju. Im not saying Hiruzen can now use the Hachimon or Goken even though he commands a 5 for taijutsu,. im saying its very possible that he knows of such techniques and might be able to.

    However Hiruzen's mastery of ninjutsu isn't just about the scrolls that was left behind. Hiruzen is also a ninjutsu developer. He created the Shuriken Kage Bunshin no Jutsu [1] As the DB says:

    Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique (手裏剣影分身の術, Shuriken Kage Bunshin no Jutsu)
    A Ninjutsu, A-rank, Offensive, Short to mid-range (0-10m)
    User: Sandaime Hokage

    Multiplying the shuriken with the power of chakra
    A formation of iron blades from which there's no escape!!

    From one shuriken a thousand Shadow Clones¹ are brought forth, striking down on the enemy. A technique combining ninja tools with ninjutsu, Compared to normal Shadow Clones, Shadow Clones of material objects are said to be on a far higher level. There is no need for preparations beforehand, like stocking up on shuriken, yet since the Shadow Clones are real and not illusions, all the shadow blades that fly around are equally lethal. As a technique invented by the Third Hokage, its conceptualisation and efficiency can certainly be said to be unique to the "Professor".

    Databook 1, p 196


    Again ill quote the important part "As a technique invented by the Third Hokage, its conceptualisation and efficiency can certainly be said to be unique to the "Professor"."

    Even in the latest DB, his hype for ninja is still echoed [1]

    So that ive shed light on this hype which is legit and his alias 'Professor', ill shed light on other hypes relating to this topic. Majority have tried to state that his hype 'Shinobi no Kami' or God of shinobi stems from his strength. This is partly true however this hype relates to his mastery of the 3 forms of ninja art and not because he commands power so great that he was given this hype. He is a god of the shinobi in the sense that in each category of the shinobi art his skill is very high. You can say Hiruzen's skill in these art on the level of Kakashi for ninjutsu, Kurenai for genjutsu and Gai for taijutsu. All 3 ninja's are the embodiment of skill in this art in konoha.

    This hype shinobi no kami doesn't contradict Hashirama's fairytale hype. Hashirama's hype is to do with his mokuton ability which gave him the powers to control bijuu and and rewrite maps. These two hypes are different. One is for extreme versatility in all 3 forms of ninja art, the other is the power to control bijuu and change landscapes.

     
         
    Last edited by Blaze Release; 01-11-2013 at 05:29 PM.

  2. #2
    zαвυzα ƒαη Katkot's Avatar
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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    all konoha jutsu ?
    kakashi mastered more jutsu than 3rd hokage and there are so many jutsu's from konoha that's even 3rd hokage can't do it ..

    for example : izunagi
     
         

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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    Agreed
     
         

  4. #4
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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    Quote Originally Posted by Katkot View Post
    all konoha jutsu ?
    kakashi mastered more jutsu than 3rd hokage and there are so many jutsu's from konoha that's even 3rd hokage can't do it ..

    for example : izunagi
    Thanks to his sharringan... It requires ages otherwise.
     
         

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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    didn't read. it's too long
     
         

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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    Quote Originally Posted by Katkot View Post
    all konoha jutsu ?
    kakashi mastered more jutsu than 3rd hokage and there are so many jutsu's from konoha that's even 3rd hokage can't do it ..

    for example : izunagi
    And where did u get those facts?
     
         

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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    Quote Originally Posted by November Nolove View Post
    didn't read. it's too long
    Yah i didnt either
     
         

  8. #8
    Karasu Blaze Release's Avatar
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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    Quote Originally Posted by Katkot View Post
    all konoha jutsu ?
    kakashi mastered more jutsu than 3rd hokage and there are so many jutsu's from konoha that's even 3rd hokage can't do it ..

    for example : izunagi
    Read first, then post
    Quote Originally Posted by November Nolove View Post
    didn't read. it's too long
    Its your loss i can assure you
     
         

  9. #9
    Senior Member gameove's Avatar
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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    i already new this but least u made it nice and simple for dumb asses to understand how great the third was.plus reps nice.
     
         

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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    You are probably right
     
         

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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    Quote Originally Posted by SAGEPATH View Post
    And where did u get those facts?
    what facts u mean ?
    anyway.
    kakashi mastered more than 1000 jutsu and this is fact ..
    i don't think 3rd hokage knows that amoung of jutsu ..
     
         

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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    Quote Originally Posted by Saikyokage View Post
    Yah i didnt either
    great mind think alike
     
         

  13. #13
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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    Very nice.
    Rep for the effort.
     
         

  14. #14
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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    I really doubt Hiruzen can use secret clan jutsu like Gentle Fist, Shadow Possession, Mind Transfer, Expansion Jutsu etc. The point of them being secret is so that only the clan may use it. Also when Oro mentioned that Hiruzen "was" considered the professor for knowing every jutsu in the Leaf he spoke in past tense. All we know is that he "was" called the professor.

    Also he does not know Rasengan http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/159/5. This has been stated more then once in the manga.
     
         

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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    Yeah, every technique except for Kekkei Genkais, Hidden techniques and techniques based on Lightning, Water and Wind. :y
     
         

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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    Quote Originally Posted by Henchman24 View Post
    I really doubt Hiruzen can use secret clan jutsu like Gentle Fist, Shadow Possession, Mind Transfer, Expansion Jutsu etc. The point of them being secret is so that only the clan may use it. Also when Oro mentioned that Hiruzen "was" considered the professor for knowing every jutsu in the Leaf he spoke in past tense. All we know is that he "was" called the professor.

    Also he does not know Rasengan http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/159/5. This has been stated more then once in the manga.
    dude thats a false statement . kakashi new how to do the resanga and also she left the village a long time ago .how could she possibly know if the third learned the resanga.
     
         

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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    That........was a really, really good thread! I agree with it all!
     
         

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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze Release View Post
    Im certain majority of Hashirama fans or those who favour him over Hiruzen will have their sword and shield in hand ready to do battle, with me in my current slumber id like to evade any rigorous discussion though im willing to answer questions.

    Anyway as the title says Hiruzen knows and can perform all konoha jutsu's. Many including myself in the past have declined this hype by stating that means he knows hidden techniques and Kekkei Genkai however that is wrong, at least when you fully understand and digest that hype.
    So does hiruzen know all and can perform all konoha jutsu's? Off course he can. Ill start from the very beginning.

    Every village have ancient techniques developed by the village ancestors and these techniques are usually kept a secret, with only a few have access to these techniques. Ill give you two examples. Kakuzu stole the village's prized jutsu; 'Jiongu' [1]. Another example is Deidora. He stole the village's jutsu which allows the wielder to infuse chakra into objects [2]

    I believe we can both call these abilities, techniques of their respective village, ill talk more on this later but back to Hiruzen. The whole reason i mentioned how these two akatsuki member's acquired their powers was firstly to note that there are techniques of their village but also such techniques are guarded with only a few having access to them. Which brings us back to the Mizuki situation because its very similar, as we know he corrupted naruto into stealing the Fuin no Sho which was located in the Hokage's residence. As we know its a scroll that contains many jutsu's which was forbidden by the Shodai Hokage [3], this is where it starts.

    The scroll was located in the hokage's residence which the Hiruzen has access to [1]. Look again, at that page, naruto had a ton of scrolls to choose from and that was just one section of the room



    Lets go back, 13 years ago when the fox attacked [4]. Look vividly behind Hiruzen and tell me what you see, for a better view there you go, does it not look like a scroll shelf behind him stacked with tons of scrolls.




    The very first technique that naruto was able to learn note was the kage bunshin [6]. Now look at how thick the scroll is, naruto had barely opened it when he learnt the seals for the kage bunshin, if the scroll was undone surely the amount of techniques in this scroll alone, i believe its safe to say will be alot.




    So where do these scrolls come from. The answer is simple, from the clan with a thousand skills and we know this because its one of these scrolls that naruto stole. As we all know Konoha was formed by the Senju and Uchiha, but its the Senju who brought up this idea and its them who have shaped konoha into what it is. Anyway as i said before the senju were known as a clan with a thousand skills [5]



    As the DB says its made up of shinobi's with expertise in ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu.
    As we all know, Hashirama and Tobirama were the teachers of Hiruzen, having the leader and vice leader of a clan with such mastery of all 3 forms of ninja art means that you gain access to these abilities which they also left behind and its reflected in Hiruzen's databook scores. None, not the sannins nor akatsuki have max for Nin, tai and gen in the DB.



    What im trying to point out this whole this time is that Hiruzens hype for knowing all konoha jutsu's are jutsu's by the ancestors of konoha, those are konoha jutsu's. Ill give you other examples of possible konoha jutsu's.
    Kurenai's genjutsu Magen: Jubaku Satsu [1] This is what the DB has to say about it:

    GENJUTSU; Magen: Jubaku Satsu (Genjutsu; Demonic Illusion: Woodbound Assassination)
    User: Yuuhi Kurenai
    Supplementary; Close range; Rank: B

    Main text

    One of the genjutsu that have been passed along since ancient times in Konoha. One is completely robbed of their mobility as they see the mirage of a tree coiling itself around them! Given that the subject remains conscious, this jutsu proves extremely efficient for information-gathering.

    Databook 2, p 275


    Ill quote the important bit "One of the genjutsu that have been passed along since ancient times in Konoha."

    Another example, majority of people do not know that there are many forms of shunshin.

    Body Flicker Technique (瞬身の術, Shunshin no Jutsu)
    Ninjutsu, D-rank, Supplementary
    Users: Gaara, Hatake Kakashi, et al

    A movement technique with extreme speed like a gust of wind!!

    Appearing along with the wind, disappearing like the wind: the ninja's instantaneous movement technique. This super fast movement is almost impossible to grasp with the naked eye. If seen by an ordinary person, it would seem as if the user has teleported... In reality, the user has vitalized his body with chakra and moved at super speeds. The amount of chakra used up differs depending on the distance and elevation of their stopping point in comparison to the starting point.

    The cloud of sand dances in the wind

    [picture of Gaara using the Body Flicker]
    [picture of Haku using the Body Flicker]
    [picture of Kakashi using the Body Flicker]
    ↑→Haku's and Kakashi's Body Flicker. Dancing leaves and disappearing in an instant like mist. There are many variations of the "Body Flicker" for the various villages and user. Gaara's use includes the "Sand Body Flicker"*. There are also the "Mist Body Flicker"**, "Water Body Flicker"***, and "Leaf Body Flicker"****, among many others.


    *Sand Body Flicker (砂瞬身, Suna Shunshin)
    **Mist Body Flicker" (霧瞬身, Kiri Shunshin)
    ***Water Body Flicker" (水瞬身, Mizu Shunshin)
    ****"Leaf Body Flicker" (木ノ葉瞬身, Konoha Shunshin)

    Databook 1, p 197


    This various shunshin's are not exclusive to the villages but again im trying to show you that there are technique that is derived from the village. We see kakashi using the konoha shunshin at the chunnin exam with sasuke [1]

    Hayate demonstrates the Mikazuki no Mai which again hints to being a konoha jutsu [1, 2]

    I believe and im certain techniques with konoha or 'leaf style' possible hints to being konoha jutsu which could possible mean that these other like:
    • Konoha Tsumuji Senpu
    • Konoha Reppu
    • Konoha Kaigansho
    • Konoha Senpu


    In fact i believe Gai and Lee's Goken fighting style and the ability to use Hachimon were not developed by Gai, but rather these are techniques developed by the clan with a thousand hands, who had mastery of the 3 forms of ninja art, the senju. Im not saying Hiruzen can now use the Hachimon or Goken even though he commands a 5 for taijutsu,. im saying its very possible that he knows of such techniques and might be able to.

    However Hiruzen's mastery of ninjutsu isn't just about the scrolls that was left behind. Hiruzen is also a ninjutsu developer. He created the Shuriken Kage Bunshin no Jutsu [1] As the DB says:

    Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique (手裏剣影分身の術, Shuriken Kage Bunshin no Jutsu)
    A Ninjutsu, A-rank, Offensive, Short to mid-range (0-10m)
    User: Sandaime Hokage

    Multiplying the shuriken with the power of chakra
    A formation of iron blades from which there's no escape!!

    From one shuriken a thousand Shadow Clones¹ are brought forth, striking down on the enemy. A technique combining ninja tools with ninjutsu, Compared to normal Shadow Clones, Shadow Clones of material objects are said to be on a far higher level. There is no need for preparations beforehand, like stocking up on shuriken, yet since the Shadow Clones are real and not illusions, all the shadow blades that fly around are equally lethal. As a technique invented by the Third Hokage, its conceptualisation and efficiency can certainly be said to be unique to the "Professor".

    Databook 1, p 196


    Again ill quote the important part "As a technique invented by the Third Hokage, its conceptualisation and efficiency can certainly be said to be unique to the "Professor"."

    Even in the latest DB, his hype for ninja is still echoed [1]

    So that ive shed light on this hype which is legit and his alias 'Professor', ill shed light on other hypes relating to this topic. Majority have tried to state that his hype 'Shinobi no Kami' or God of shinobi stems from his strength. This is partly true however this hype relates to his mastery of the 3 forms of ninja art and not because he commands power so great that he was given this hype. He is a god of the shinobi in the sense that in each category of the shinobi art his skill is very high. You can say Hiruzen's skill in these art on the level of Kakashi for ninjutsu, Kurenai for genjutsu and Gai for taijutsu. All 3 ninja's are the embodiment of skill in this art in konoha.

    This hype shinobi no kami doesn't contradict Hashirama's fairytale hype. Hashirama's hype is to do with his mokuton ability which gave him the powers to control bijuu and and rewrite maps. These two hypes are different. One is for extreme versatility in all 3 forms of ninja art, the other is the power to control bijuu and change landscapes.



    + rep for the effort i like how organized it is.However hashi also had a large scroll filled with kinjustu.His stamina is higher his chakra levels are higher unless you want to debate over if hiruzen truly had more stamina and chakra then a descendant of the sage.Who embodies the psychical energy of the sage lol He can maintain dominance over the tailed beast and can heal without handsigns.Not to mention madara states that he is the only one who can beat him.That should be enough right there but more importantly he also said most people though his power was a fairy tale not that it actually was.It was a hyperbole of the people who lived in that time because they could not fathom his power.


    "These two hypes are different. One is for extreme versatility in all 3 forms of ninja art, the other is the power to control bijuu and change landscapes."


    they were specifically noted to be skilled in every category You obviously know nothing about the senju

    ps if it is stated in the manga its not hype its called facts
     
         
    Last edited by DeadManWonderLand; 01-11-2013 at 05:52 PM.

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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    yup
     
         

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    Exorcist General SAGEPATH's Avatar
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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    Quote Originally Posted by Katkot View Post
    what facts u mean ?
    anyway.
    kakashi mastered more than 1000 jutsu and this is fact ..
    i don't think 3rd hokage knows that amoung of jutsu ..
    Hmm but has manga shown kakashi using 1000 different jutsus ?
    u Know from what i have learned its all beep,And people keep underestimating Hiruzen so much when they say he learned every jutsu they are meaning he read how to do each jutsu from kanoha and knew how to use them,So for example u said he cant do izanagi so meaning he knew how to use izanagi but didnt have the eyes required to use it.
     
         

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    テン Tenten テン Kárma's Avatar
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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    To bad from what everyone is saying its a good thread but im too lazy to read all of it
     
         

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    bleh
     

    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    Quote Originally Posted by gameove View Post
    dude thats a false statement . kakashi new how to do the resanga and also she left the village a long time ago .how could she possibly know if the third learned the resanga.
    This was also stated long before Kakashi could use it. How could she know? Well she was Hiruzen's student and I'm sure they were on good speaking terms. Also I didn't see Jiraiya argue with her about it. He was probably in contact wih Hiruzen more then Tsunade was.

    I still say that Hiruzen didn't learn Rasengan.
     
         

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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    People please read the thread before you post, it really helps i can assure you
     
         

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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    I like your thread because what you say is true but there is a flaw.

    All the Jutsu that "exist <- existed" in konoha (even if they are written on those scrolls) Can't be performed by hiruzen.

    It leaves the question, What is "Konoha Jutsu"? Senju Ninjutsu/Gen/Taijutsu? Most likely but it is NOT "All the jutsu that exist in the leaf" because Konoha doesn't comprise solely of "Senju" natives.
     
         

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    Re: Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

    Nice effort, I agree to some extent, but this is only speculation, we don't even know if the scroll has a lot of empty pages for future kinjutsu or is filled with jutsu's.
     
         

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