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    Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Well,after I read that and that theories I got just an idea. /Im sorry if someone else has came with this before/

    To begin with the variations of the Mangekyou Sharingan.

    1- The Evidence

    There is no hard evidence to show Itachi killed anyone. It would have been easy for the author had he wanted to depict it.

    Firstly, Itachi was shown killing his parents but only in.
    Itachi has not even broken sweat. He has a sword, but there are no bloodstains at all. No signs of exertion.

    There is mystery surrounding the parents as well:
    The left window is open, but the one on the right is not. There are two thuds just as Sasuke is about to come in, hinting that perhaps Itachi entered through the window and dropped the bodies there just then. Notice also that they are lying one on top of the other. No screams are heard, meaning they were killed a while back, and Itachi was just waiting for Sasuke. This raises an important question:

    If Itachi did indeed kill his parents, why did Itachi not do so in front of Sasuke instead of using Tsukuyomi to show the same thing?

    There would have been no harm. Instead, it would have not only saved him the effort, but even worked in his favor. Witnessing their death in reality might have unlocked Mangekyo potential in Sasuke, creating a case similar to Kakashi. We all know this is what Itachi wanted. I think Itachi used Tsukuyomi because he did not kill his parents.

    Furthermore, Itachi was never seen wielding a sword afterwards. He has been shown to be a master with throwing tools, but never a swordsman.

    So, why did he have a sword if he did not use it?

    The only reason I believe he had a sword was because he wanted Sasuke to believe that it was with a sword that he actually killed their parents, and that the Tsukuyomi was a precise replay of what actually occured. Killing with a sword is very visual and explicit, as opposed to killing using genjutsu. We must remember that Itachi wanted Sasuke to hate him for the purpose of gaining MS and later the EMS, so that he could equal Madara.
    I think Itachi wanted to stop Madara, but even with MS, he knew he would be no match for him. He needed an EMS. But how did he know that Sasuke would get the black dotted MS? I believe that the color is determined by the chakra. More specifically yin-yang. Here I am assuming that it works in a similar fashion to the nature elements. In this case then, Sasuke and Madara lean toward yin, and the rest yang. But how exactly did Itachi know which type Sasuke is, before he obtained it? Remember that the Sharingan can see chakra. So Itachi saw that Sasuke's chakra type leaned toward yin. So did Madara, and I think that the Kyuubi was referring to that as well. We know next to nothing about yin-yang currently, but I am sure it will play an important role. Let's go back to when it was mentioned for the first time. Read the whole page. Note that the bottom panel is completely unnecessary. It could have been left out with no impact whatsoever. In fact, it looks more like it was tacked on intentionally.

    Next, is it possible for the yin type to appear less often than yang? Yes, because the wind type is rare. (bottom left)
    What is the thing on what the eye 'dot' depends? Yin and yang? But then, how the different kinds are possessed?
    To start with that. Notice that:
    Eyes that long for power, eyes filled with hatred and murderous intent...
    I think that Yin appears in people whose hatred is big,such as Madara and Sasuke.
    Thats the reason why Itachi showed the massacre to Sasuke. He wanted him to hate. In the beginning Madaras hatred was also big.
    Please discuss!

    P.S. I know that it could be more detailed but I am not good writer.
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    i know i always though of that myself itachi seem to kind at heart to kill someone. what really made me start be leaving the theory that itachi is not a killer is when they told pein told itachi that sasuke died in battle and he went into the rain and stated crying lol that broke my heart:D
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    read this:-
    http://www.narutobase.net/forums/nar...ood-tears.html
    I did not read your theory completely, will give my response later on.
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Quote Originally Posted by SSJ4Naruto View Post
    read this:-
    http://www.narutobase.net/forums/nar...ood-tears.html
    I did not read your theory completely, will give my response later on.
    I read it but not all,sorry,but apparently the thesis I stated is not there.
    My theory is that Yin is created by hatred thats why itachi showed the massacre to Sasuke
     
         
    Last edited by Pesh; 09-18-2009 at 06:54 AM.

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    ]

    wow great tread i loved it
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesche View Post
    Well,after I read that and that theories I got just an idea. /Im sorry if someone else has came with this before/

    To begin with the variations of the Mangekyou Sharingan.





    What is the thing on what the eye 'dot' depends? Yin and yang? But then, how the different kinds are possessed?
    To start with that. Notice that:

    I think that Yin appears in people whose hatred is big,such as Madara and Sasuke.
    Thats the reason why Itachi showed the massacre to Sasuke. He wanted him to hate. In the beginning Madaras hatred was also big.
    Please discuss!

    P.S. I know that it could be more detailed but I am not good writer.
    I could only skim your hypothesis and argument, but it seems quite interesting, especially after seeing the different MS/EMS again. Nice read, I need to go over it again.
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesche View Post
    I read it but not all,sorry,but apparently the thesis I stated is not there.
    My theory is that Yin is created by hatred thats why itachi showed the massacre to Sasuke
    Done nicely...But I think I have read one more theory going along same lines like these.
    About Sasuke's and Madara's Chakra being leaned towards yin and thats why they can control kyuubi when other uchihas apparently can not.
    Because yin refers to evil spirit. Also refers to color black and thats how they Sasuke and Madara got black dot on their sharingan.
    Both of them can control kyuubi because their chakra is sinister than kyuubi...
    But over all nice theory. It would have been good if you would have gave more proofs.
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Quote Originally Posted by SSJ4Naruto View Post
    Done nicely...But I think I have read one more theory going along same lines like these.
    About Sasuke's and Madara's Chakra being leaned towards yin and thats why they can control kyuubi when other uchihas apparently can not.
    Because yin refers to evil spirit. Also refers to color black and thats how they Sasuke and Madara got black dot on their sharingan.

    Both of them can control kyuubi because their chakra is sinister than kyuubi...
    But over all nice theory. It would have been good if you would have gave more proofs.
    Well thats why I apologized in the beginning of the thread
    Im sorry I didnt give enough proofs. The reason is that Im very impatient
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesche View Post
    Well thats why I apologized in the beginning of the thread
    Im sorry I didnt give enough proofs. The reason is that Im very impatient
    hahaha... no need to apologize...
    I think your theory is correct. I also think the same...
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Quote Originally Posted by SSJ4Naruto View Post
    hahaha... no need to apologize...
    I think your theory is correct. I also think the same...
    I am glad to hear it ^-^
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Good theory but I don't agree with the sword thing.

    We see kakashi wielding a short blade aswell, now he doesn't, it doesn't mean he never wielded a blade or it was all a lie what we've seen in the history.

    It's just a fighting style, kakshi stopped fighting with a blade and so did Itachi, I believe.
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosenka View Post
    Good theory but I don't agree with the sword thing.

    We see kakashi wielding a short blade aswell, now he doesn't, it doesn't mean he never wielded a blade or it was all a lie what we've seen in the history.

    It's just a fighting style, kakshi stopped fighting with a blade and so did Itachi, I believe.
    Its not part of my theory,its part of the quote
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosenka View Post
    Good theory but I don't agree with the sword thing.

    We see kakashi wielding a short blade aswell, now he doesn't, it doesn't mean he never wielded a blade or it was all a lie what we've seen in the history.

    It's just a fighting style, kakshi stopped fighting with a blade and so did Itachi, I believe.
    you may be correct. kakashi stopped using sword, because his sword broke in 3rd war, against that rock shinobi.
    As for itachi, he used it again against oro. sword of totsuka. I am assuming he wielded same sword at the time of apparent killing of uchihas.
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    perhpas the dot has nothing to do with yin-yang. Perhaps, it has to do with whether they killed someone intentionally for the mangekyuo or not.

    it never proved that itachi killed shisui. perhaps, Madara did, and itachi saied it had been him because no one would believe madara was still alive. So, the loss of a friedn unlocks mangekyuo sharingan, right?

    Then, we don't know kakashi, be he isn't heartless enoguh to kill someone to attain more power. hence he got his red dot.

    Izuna may be an exception, but we don't know how he got it.

    then madara killed his friend.

    Sasuke killed/weakened very much itachi. So by losing someone that close an important, he beleived he had killed him and attained mangekyuo sharingan with black dot.

    what do you think?
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Seven-Scaled boy View Post
    perhpas the dot has nothing to do with yin-yang. Perhaps, it has to do with whether they killed someone intentionally for the mangekyuo or not.

    it never proved that itachi killed shisui. perhaps, Madara did, and itachi saied it had been him because no one would believe madara was still alive. So, the loss of a friedn unlocks mangekyuo sharingan, right?

    Then, we don't know kakashi, be he isn't heartless enoguh to kill someone to attain more power. hence he got his red dot.

    Izuna may be an exception, but we don't know how he got it.

    then madara killed his friend.

    Sasuke killed/weakened very much itachi. So by losing someone that close an important, he beleived he had killed him and attained mangekyuo sharingan with black dot.

    what do you think?
    yin refers to evil chakra and black refers to evil. Killing someone for any reason means evil, so it refers to yin, dont you think...
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Quote Originally Posted by SSJ4Naruto View Post
    yin refers to evil chakra and black refers to evil. Killing someone for any reason means evil, so it refers to yin, dont you think...
    But then minato sealed the yin chakra of the fox, meaning that naruto has the yang/good fox inside him?

    Then, we don't know a bit about yin/yang chakra. perhpas madara has yin by a mere coincidence and so does sasuke. yeah, i know it may be too much a coincidence. Too, we don't know naruto's chakra inclination, niether kakashi or no one indeed. Yin/yang was just mentiones in the manga during the training with kakashi.
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Seven-Scaled boy View Post
    But then minato sealed the yin chakra of the fox, meaning that naruto has the yang/good fox inside him?

    Then, we don't know a bit about yin/yang chakra. perhpas madara has yin by a mere coincidence and so does sasuke. yeah, i know it may be too much a coincidence. Too, we don't know naruto's chakra inclination, niether kakashi or no one indeed. Yin/yang was just mentiones in the manga during the training with kakashi.
    Yin and yang are not only part of the manga
    Yin and yang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesche View Post
    Yin and yang are not only part of the manga
    Yin and yang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Sorry I didn't express myself quite thorughly. I meant in naruto.
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Seven-Scaled boy View Post
    Sorry I didn't express myself quite thorughly. I meant in naruto.
    True but Kishimoto uses a lot of culture tokens,such as Yin and Yang
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesche View Post
    True but Kishimoto uses a lot of culture tokens,such as Yin and Yang
    first of all, lol @ my pirde and stuborness(did i wrote it right?)

    but, using a culture token would like he did with susanoo, amaterasu, tsukiyomi, yata mirror and the sake cutting sword. not just mentionning the yin and yang inclinations.
     
         

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    Re: Sasuke's and Madara's MS - Black dot!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Seven-Scaled boy View Post
    first of all, lol @ my pirde and stuborness(did i wrote it right?)

    but, using a culture token would like he did with susanoo, amaterasu, tsukiyomi, yata mirror and the sake cutting sword. not just mentionning the yin and yang inclinations.
    Look,i post what I think,but he DID mention about the YIN and YANG that means it might be part of the future story.
     
         

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