View Poll Results: Is suicide selfish?

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  • Yes

    152 73.79%
  • No

    54 26.21%
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  1. #61
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Trickster View Post
    A) There's no such thing as "absolute" morality. Morality is, much like the concept of honor, subjective.
    B) I never said they were less moral. I said they were selfish. I consider selfishness a part of human nature, by the way.
    C) That last part of your sentence doesn't even make any fucking sense. How would any kind of relativism prevent me from defining anything as selfish? Like you said, I use my personal belief system to define what is what. As long as I give an explanation on why I think the way I do (which I did in my first post of this thread) then I don't see the issue here :/
    Then you are merely basing it on personal opinion and nothing more since you hold no absolute ground for your beliefs, your argument is based not on logic or philosophical reasoning but from personal, subjective and emotive sentiments. You're "explanation" is without substance or merit.
     
         
    Last edited by Sir Derp Obito; 01-13-2013 at 12:40 AM.

  2. #62
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Trickster View Post
    Well no shit, the question itself asks for a personal opinion in the first place - that doesn't mean I didn't use logic in my answer to support it. You can try to act high and mighty with me, but everyone here can see through your pseudo-philosophical bullshit
    Opinions based solely on personal sentiments and not from logic and reason are worthless and impudent. And no you did not use logic in your argument, you merely gave an opinion on the matter and nothing more. If you cannot hold absolute moral or philosophical grounds on your statements or propositions then there is no bedrock to arbitrate disagreement.
     
         

  3. #63
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derp Obito View Post
    Opinions based solely on personal sentiments and not from logic and reason are worthless and impudent. And no you did not use logic in your argument, you merely gave an opinion on the matter and nothing more. If you cannot hold absolute moral or philosophical grounds then there is no bedrock to arbitrate disagreement.
    Says the guy who groundlessly stated, as if fact, that there is any such thing as 'absolute morality'.
     
         

  4. #64
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Kelvin View Post
    Says the guy who groundlessly stated, as if fact, that there is any such thing as 'absolute morality'.
    Care to explain why there is no absolute morality? I can go through a very long philosophical discussion if you want how can we arbitrate disagreements then if you yourself do not have absolutes? what then is the foundation of your belief?
     
         
    Last edited by Sir Derp Obito; 01-13-2013 at 12:51 AM.

  5. #65
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    only if you have children. you shouldn't have to be in this world if you don't want to. but you owe it to your children to be in their lives and take care of them
     
         

  6. #66
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Trickster View Post
    You are fucking retarded, aren't you? Are you seriously claiming that opinions, based on personal beliefs, yet supported by logical reasoning, are invalid, solely because of the fact they are not absolute? The fuck is the point of this thread, then? What's the point of discussing anything at all?

    Drop the thesaurus man, because even using a more extensive vocabulary isn't enough to mask your stupidity right now.
    what part of logical coherent reasoning did you display by saying suicide is selfish, you merely gave an opinion and nothing more without the least effort of expounding your position.
     
         

  7. #67
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derp Obito View Post
    Care to explain why there is no absolute morality? I can go through a very long philosophical discussion if you want how can we arbitrate disagreements then if you yourself do not have absolutes? what then is the foundation of your belief?
    Argumentum ad ignorantiam. You issue a claim, now you must back it up. Not the other way around.
     
         

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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Trickster View Post
    :sy:



    I define it as selfish for reasons mentioned above.

    Explain to me how this is not logical or coherent, and I'll stop thinking of you as a complete imbecile (unlikely to happen, but hey, you have a shot).
    Why? why must personal relations deter you from the autonomous act of killing yourself? what then is the basis of incorporating the being of the "other" from the being of the "self"? these are existential questions, if you cannot expound upon these propositions then you are merely saying opinions on emotive psychological pumps.
     
         

  9. #69
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derp Obito View Post


    The same way can be said to people who subscribe to religious dogma or philosophical axioms. So who are you to judge those who are brainwashed or not? what is your measure then of what is right and what is not?
    It is brainwashing it isn't my judgement, this mentality and way of thinking was mentally and physical beat into those people. whether Somebody was brainwashed isn't subjective it either happened or it didn't....
     
         

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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Kelvin View Post
    Argumentum ad ignorantiam. You issue a claim, now you must back it up. Not the other way around.
    Like I said, if you cannot establish an absolute ground for your moral system, then we cannot arbitrate disagreements. Tell me then why you believe there is no absolute morality, and I will tell you mine.
     
         

  11. #71
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derp Obito View Post
    Care to explain why there is no absolute morality? I can go through a very long philosophical discussion if you want how can we arbitrate disagreements then if you yourself do not have absolutes? what then is the foundation of your belief?
    There is no such thing. Morality is subjective...
     
         

  12. #72
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhazoN View Post
    There is no such thing. Morality is subjective...
    Care to explain? I'd love to hear your philosophical arguments of why morality is subjective. And do not tell me simply because you belief in it and nothing more to back it up.
     
         

  13. #73
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derp Obito View Post
    Like I said, if you cannot establish an absolute ground for your moral system, then we cannot arbitrate disagreements.
    Why not? We establish ethics, morality and law based on the society we live in. Ethics, morality and law constantly changes for the same reason. A set of 'absolute truths' in ethics is, per definition, impossible unless we have someone/something ultimate that can define good and evil/wrong and right.
    Goddamnit, you're a Theist aren't you?
     
         

  14. #74
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derp Obito View Post
    Care to explain? I'd love to hear your philosophical arguments of why morality is subjective. And do not tell me simply because you belief in it and nothing more to back it up.
    So are you saying the is an 'Absolute morality'? If so, please tell.
     
         

  15. #75
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    There are different kinds of suicide for different kinds of reasons. Take altrustic suicide for example.

    Suicide isn't a black and white topic. It's more complicated than that.
     
         

  16. #76
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derp Obito View Post
    Care to explain? I'd love to hear your philosophical arguments of why morality is subjective. And do not tell me simply because you belief in it and nothing more to back it up.
    Sure.
    Let's start with this: what's the point of debating about topics like euthanasia, abortion, homosexuality, etc. if absolute morals exist? If there are absolute morals, why are there countries where death penalty is allowed and others where it isn't? Why do the laws change so much? If we already know what's good and evil, then we don't need to discuss any of this. The only place where I can find absolute morals is religion.
     
         

  17. #77
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Kelvin View Post
    Why not? We establish ethics, morality and law based on the society we live in. Ethics, morality and law constantly changes for the same reason. A set of 'absolute truths' in ethics is, per definition, impossible unless we have someone/something ultimate that can define good and evil/wrong and right.
    Goddamnit, you're a Theist aren't you?
    Sir, the human race had always had distinction from what is right and wrong. law and ethics are but codifications of that distinction that arises from that consciousness of obligation to the sphere of morality, the perception of the consciousness of moral law is best explained on a transcendent ground and an author of the moral law. Do you have a beef with theism?
     
         
    Last edited by Sir Derp Obito; 01-13-2013 at 01:13 AM.

  18. #78
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Trickster View Post
    What the... you're serious?

    Well, assuming you're an empathetic human being like most others and share emotional bonds with your family, I'd say it should matter to you, at least a tiny bit.

    Also, my god, I never said it should DETER you from killing yourself. Don't you have basic reading comprehension skills? All I'm stating is that it is a selfish act. Whether or not you want to commit it, however, is entirely up to that individual and a different question altogether.

    You're needlessly complicating the issue with the most irrelevant philosophical questions I've ever seen under the guise of making yourself look smart. Just... just drop it. No one here is impressed. If anything, you're just making yourself look worse.
    You are basing the core of your argument on sentimentality. It does not hold water for intellectual discussion.
     
         

  19. #79
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    It isnt always selfish, it really depends on the type of situation.
     
         

  20. #80
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    Re: Is suicide a selfish act?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derp Obito View Post
    Sir, the human race had always had distinction from what is right and wrong. law and ethics are but codifications of that distinction that arises from that consciousness of obligation to the sphere of morality, the perception of the consciousness of moral law is best explained on a transcendent ground and an author of the moral law. Do you have a beef with theism?
    see this doesn't make sense if this was the case the issue of changing laws and ethics wouldn't even matter if there was An absoulute morality laws and ethics wouldn't be something people argue about all year long.
     
         

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